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One thing that always happens when there are many choices is that the attrition levels grow at every job, is the eternal search of greener grass I guess:hmm:
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Originally Posted by Tommy Tilt
I hope the TREs stick together, look after their own and send a clear message by failing as many DECs as possible. I cannot imagine what toilet-bowl abortion you evolved from to make such an outrageous statement. No Emirates TRE would ever consider acting as shamefully as you suggest. You have proficiently succeeded in ensuring the opposite effect of your pathetic desire. No doubt, ICAO and the UAE GCAA will now be aware that the integrity of the Emirates Airline may be compromised due to the possibility of manipulated DEC pilot selection/training in order to placate disgruntled First Officers. These entities will now more closely monitor Emirates pilot training. Ironically, any sub-standard First Officers will be more exposed. On the very, very, slight chance that any renegade Emirates TRE may subscribe to your retaliatory methods, I suggest that any DEC who fails selection or training and feels they may have been discriminated against in any Emirates simulator, submits a detailed report to the respective civil aviation legislative authorities. In the USA the Pilot Record Improvement Act 1996 (PRIA) is in place. The Act requires all airlines to provide training records, including simulator reports, of any former employee, before that person can be recruited by a US airline. In anticipation of any replies to this post that the requirement to produce records only applies to US airlines, it does not. Emirates flies to the USA, therefore, FAA inspectors may request training records from Emirates and take the appropriate action should Emirates not comply and/or the records are determined to be false. Inciter, I suggest you pursue your cause with Emirates management rather than hoping that TRE's act illegally on your behalf. |
Are Villas still supplied to an applicant with a family - say even the despised DEC.
what neighbourhoods do the supplied housing usually end up in. Curious. WJP |
Christ, what a mess. Obviously no one is good enough to join emirates as a captain. All that other experience is bogus. Just really shows what egotistical self centred wankers some people are.
Truth be told it seems to me, if a monkey with an licence turned up they would get an fo job. And, no I didn't fail selection but some if the people I have flown with were...a tad average and they got in. And on the flip side, elsewhere, we see ryanair pilots are being specifically targetted for their superior flying skills ! Yes , short haul Europe is great preparation for flying half way round the world. Truth is they are no better or worse than anybody else , they just work for a super !!!!e company. And don't worry I'm not applying, I have under 3000 command hours, albeit over 100 T. Hey , wonder if I can multiply my hours by 2 and a bit on that basis? |
All DECs are inferior to the FOs in EK according to some posters here. That's strange considering the fact that a couple of years ago the same contributors said that EK was "scraping the bottom of the barrel" for FOs. How come these lousy FOs from "dodgy outfits in the third world" now three four years later suddenly are so brilliant?
Don't worry, I am not interested in EK any longer. Just can't stand some of the infantile posts here. |
Don't worry we can't stand you either.
What illustrious airline are you flying for Patty Cakes? It will be proven in 12-15 months time that EK scraped the very bottom to fill their DEC ranks. What qualified type rated international widebody captain will come to Emirates? We all know who will come and that is what everyone has a problem with in addition to the ethical question involved. |
WJApilot,
I may be arrogant but you appear to be incapable of reading. You'll need to brush up on that if you want to come here. I said 737/A320 guys WITH NO INTERNATIONAL EXPERIENCE. Apparently, you have international experience. Good for you. That statement doesn't apply to you, does it? :) |
DEC
For all the FOs complaining about DECs let's be clear. While I personally don't agree with the policy, this website has been providing plenty of information on the hiring practice of Emirates for more than a decade. EK has always hired DECs throughout its history as deemed neccessary for fleet expansion. You came here knowing that so to now complain about it because it directly impacts your life is a bit rich (cue picture of child stomping feet, fists clenched, eyes tightly closed trying to wish it away screaming ITS NOT FAIR!!!) I have every confidence that any DEC that gets through the command course is qualified to operate as a Captain to the Emirates standard and if they don't will be summarily fired as in the past. Stop taking these decisions personally, They're not!
Besides, from what I've seen in the last few years some of you could use some extra time in the right seat. (inflammatory remark added for my own entertainment):{:yuk: |
SKYGODS
What about driving 737's or A320's from Europe to, lets say, Africa? Or from Australia to Asia? Or the U.S. to Central or South America? Is it somehow harder and therefore much more important that it be an A330 instead of an A320? Or that the duty begins in Dubai? By the looks of it, Emirates recruitment don't seem to think so. And just because it's not a requirement to have international experience, doesn't mean the applicants won't have any. I do understand the emotion from F/O's about this, I'd be pissed off to, but just because an aircraft only has one aisle doesn't make it an easier operation. |
There is nothing wrong with 320/73 ng pilots ( Capt's) coming as DEC's,some will do fine with some route famil training. The problem is the Ego's of some of the EK FO's , they have Big Airplane syndrome and think they are better than any 320/73 ng Capt. You will fine that they complain on pprune but at work are keeping their mouths shut as they do not want to get noticed in the wrong way.But I'm sure all those highly gifted EK Fo's will all pass the upgrade course with out any problems. Does anyone know why the 777 changes their upgrade cousre?.... Because of the failure rate and the change was not to help the pilots (lower the failure rate)but to save on training duties.
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Cerbus
I have nothing against you or anyone else here. Just some of the posts. Your post shows very well what I was referring to. Why the anger? Failed your own upgrade interview? And I wasn't even saying I would apply for "your" job, actually it was the opposite... |
The return of Sheikmyarse ...as DEC
Me think you Ek pilot ,mainly just a bunch of loser. By helping the habibis you are bringing down western aviation you suckers ! And for what? Shut up go to work and take these peanuts. What a ****** up bunch of sorry arsholes spending there time talking about who has the biggest bird! Like 6 years old kid ! I guess most of you did not have a satisfying sex life in your adolescense and resorted to flying just feel "big man" and to compensate. Keep " driving"... I'll fly.
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I 100% agree gypsy. Why do some people think that every time you join a new airline you must start at the bottom? How many out there would seriously consider going from a Captain to a Junior FO every time they moved on? Wait until they are in the LHS I can guarantee they'll see things differently. I guarantee once the vocal 'FO' opponents on this thread leave EK with 3000 widebody command, because theyve had enough of EK and/or Dubai, Id bet they will be applying, expecting,hopeing for a DEC with the airline theyre applying to. They may well only apply for the job if a DEC is on the table. Ces La Vie |
EK Drivers... any maximum age?
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All this indignation! the rules are there so that the company can change them when they want.
I've flown with a few DEC's from the last lot of recruitment, and most of them are good guys, good operators and seem to fit in well to the EK philosophy with the usual exceptions. As ever the usual chest beating on here shows nothing, nor does it change anything, although I do LOVE the assumption that the FAA can waltz in here and demand training records, it takes about 10 minutes to destroy someone in the sim if you are that way inclined. Despite what those of you considering a move here actually think, there are a few realities you need to consider. EK is an outstanding operation when the wheels stay attached, they run a tight ship that lives and breaths operational efficiency out of pure necessity, when the wheels fall off however expect little or no support as everyone and I do mean everyone will do their best to absolve themselves of responsibility and plant the consequences fairly and squarely on your shoulders. Ordinarily you'll say "hey no problem, it's what I do everyday anyway" but that's your first mistake, as your Ops, Maintenance and Fleet support staff will quite happily give you enough rope to hang yourself given half the chance. So what? you say, well back in your home town/country etc the consequences are a lot less troublesome as they can be here, so be warned, and get used to incredible India as a little birds tells me it's the 330 for quite a few DEC's :E |
It is not a shock to me that EK FOs are disappointed. In my own company easyJet we too have taken DECs this year admittedly onto the 320. However the experience takes you across Europe, Asia & Africa and I don't think there is much more skill flying international oceanic routes with ETOPS aircraft required than there is flying in the London TMA everyday for example.
The aircraft type conversion from a 320 to a 330/340 should not be challenging, so it would be an exercise in adapting to the new airline SOPs and indeed the lifestyle and route network. I have many friends out at EK and they are in the RHS, not one of them would discourage me from applying for this. So whilst I am an experienced pilot on a narrow body, I am confident that with good training, a committed attitude and with the assistance of most FOs I could easily adapt and be an asset to EK. I think I might apply! |
F/Os (specially the senior ones) thinking that they are better than their captains... I've seen these types before.
Let them operate the landing gear lever a few more times that they calm down! :ok: |
F/Os (specially the senior ones) thinking that they are better than their captains... I've seen these types before. Let them operate the landing gear lever a few more times that they calm down! |
None of these narrowbody domestic pilots have said what airline they fly for. If you are considering EK you have answered my question.
Just because you are in the left seat does not make you a Sky God. If you are flying at a !!!!e airline you are far from a Sky God. Some of you probably think EK is a good airline. That answers my question as well. If you think EK is good you are flying at a !!!!e airline. |
Why you hate narrow body captains. In most stable legacy carriers you go from narrowbody fo to widebody fo, then upgrade to narrowbody captain and later move to widebody captain. Widebody captain is less stressfull than flying 20 days a month, 20 take off and landings, short turn arrounds, just you and the fo, 2 man crew, some days 4 sectors. :ok:
The problem is not DEC guys, the problem is you cant strike against managment because of labor law there. You know the rules were like that when you sign. Strike or dont complain against guys just trying to apply for a job. |
Well cerbus I did say which airline I worked for. They are far from !!!!e by the way and they are not a domestic carrier either. I have been a skipper there for 5 years and been unfortunate enough to have 2 engine failures in the LHS, but I suppose to you that experience is not relevant. Good luck to you!
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I don't think there is much more skill flying international oceanic routes with ETOPS aircraft required than there is flying in the London TMA everyday for example. |
Not wanting to spoil any ambitions but the DEC policy is aimed at a specific type of Capt. The aim is to recruit TRI/TRE's to make life easier for the over stretched training dept. Recruitment already have individuals in mind and MM has his mates earmarked for the jobs. Doubt there will be too many line types taken on as it's risky and expensive. Plenty of FO fodder to do it more effeciently. If you work for Thomas Cook then apply, otherwise expect a rough ride at the assessment.
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Just listen to you guys make my stomach turn. Mine is better than yours, bla bla bla... No wonder our profession has reached new lows with attitudes like that.
We need pilots to expand. Left seat and right seat. Candidates are assessed. Some pass. Most don't. There is no union here. There is no preferential treatment here. The business comes first. Always. Accept this and life will be easier. Drop the mud throwing. DECs are an extraordinary measure that from time to time is necessary to support our massive expansion. If you didnt know this you didnt do your home work. If you are a narrow body captain working in a ATC proficient area you will find it a steep learning curve going where we go. As would I if I had to fill your shoes. Good luck and happy flying to all. |
What a lot of hot air we pilots are able to produce. Never mind, we all have to have a hobby! On topic though, there are many well qualified and interested guys over at the Goat who'd like to swap sides, this would be ideal for EK but not so for QR who have there own recruitment problems. Is the poaching agreement in place?
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Oh Eric, that was not an arrogant response at all. If you knew me you would know that arrogance is certainly one attribute that escapes me. I was just pointing out that all types of flying have exposure to challenges and risk. The London TMA is a very challenging environment - you probably already knew that though..........
As for ATC proficiency try Marrakesh or Cairo. They are as bad as most. |
Had to reply to that as I 100% agree with Lionfish. No more real skill is involved.
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London TMA...challenging, that's a joke right? The best controllers anywhere and they spoon feed you all the way. Any monkey who can operate an FCU/MCP can fly the London TMA. Want a challenge, try the Bombay FIR during monsoon or Damascus on a CAVOK day. London is for PPL's :ugh:
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Want a challenge, try the Bombay FIR during monsoon or Damascus on a CAVOK day. |
Guys I don't disagree with you! I was merely pointing out that each operation has different challenges. Short runway operation, Innsbruck, Salzburg, ATC in remote places, Nice and a visual circling manoeuvre onto finals on 22R at 800 ft. It's all about being professional an having a level of competence.
There are many airfields in the world that are a threat to safe operation, there are different threats in short haul to long haul. That does not mean however that with a DEC coming into EK will not cope with the different threat and error management to one promoted from within. I Am not here to knock anyone's nose out of joint, I'm just not prepared to allow unanswered a few rather misleading posts from hacked off guys in the RHS in EK. Whilst accepting that they have a grievance - their grievance should not be with the DECs! As for not helping yourselves with the argument may I refer you to this comment London's for PPLs |
1. Wherever you come from, as a DEC it’s not to be underestimated. You most probably have to adapt to a new plane, new destinations and regions and most importantly a new company environment. On the latter there is colorful reading material in abundance on these pages! All at the same time can prove to be quite a handful.
Good luck! 2. As for the disgruntled FOs. You left your company for EK most probably due to career issues. Your buddies stayed and waited their turn there and later passed the upgrade. As they now might join as DECs, you denounce them. Those who qualify most probably were senior to you in the former company anyway, so where is the problem? They waited their turn while you took the short cut at EK. -> Sometimes working, sometimes not working … Tough luck! 3. Concerning Goat Airlines, I guess most of their pilots had tried EK first, so there was a reason why they didn’t make the cut. Do you think they’ll make it now? That would be lowering the bar wouldn’t it, and EK keeps pretending they don’t. Good luck again! |
Isn't all this willy waving great ? I can see why flying isn't treated as a profession anymore...
At the end of the day different operations demand different skills.I have as much respect for the knackered ryanair chap trying to do an NPA into some half arsed airfield in France, after 4 sectors - as much as the long haul chap, doing one sector into some bad wx/bad ATC dump in India or whereever. It's a form of protectionism.....our plane/destinations/operation (delete as applicable) is harder than yours......We all do it really.My 10p is chambery with a tailwind in 75.. At the end of the day anyone coming off a 73 or whatever will be bright enough to appreciate it's going to be hard work with a new (bigger) aircraft, new destinations etc. I would hope a combination of decent training and the experience requirement would see them through.However as has been mentioned I doubt anyone without significant command time ona widebody will get a look in. |
London TMA challenging..?
Your kidding right? Get a clue. f. |
Some of you boys(little baby big airplane boys) really need to get out a bit more.
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"I bet my dads car is faster than your dads car' ... Pretty much sums up this thread!! Good luck to any who apply & to those seeking their upgrade. am sure both sets will be just fine and do a good job.
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"Not wanting to spoil any ambitions but the DEC policy is aimed at a specific type of Capt. The aim is to recruit TRI/TRE's to make life easier for the over stretched training dept. Recruitment already have individuals in mind and MM has his mates earmarked for the jobs. Doubt there will be too many line types taken on as it's risky and expensive. Plenty of FO fodder to do it more effeciently. If you work for Thomas Cook then apply, otherwise expect a rough ride at the assessment."
Vfe next, is that an assumption or have you heard this from the horses' mouth? Are you just trying to put us narrowbody Capt's off from applying? Do you think a 10,000 hour Capt with 6,500 hours command on 737NG and A320 does not stand a chance of DEC? |
I think they are fishing but prefer training types. Give it a go, they can only say no and you will have lost nothing. It's still a good job in either seat.
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So I guess you're making an assumption?
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Preference will be given to type rated Airbus A330/340, B777 or other relevant wide body commanders and Instructors/Examiners
Not so much an assumption Bridgey, but more just reading what is written. Check page 8 for what the requirements are. (I understand that English may not be your first language and this line may have escaped your notice:}) There are several Thomas Cook fellas here already on contract that have said they would like a full time gig. They are good guys, typed/TREd already and already know the SOPs training environment etc. EK would be crazy not hire them. These guys already run the recruitment SIMs. Your chances of being hired are, as vfenext has already suggested, dependent on how many they want and on who else applies. If your interested apply, you have nothing to loose. The Don |
Fair enough. I was just fishing myself. Just wanted to know if I am wasting my time applying or not.
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