84 have left.

That's what I've moved up on the S.List so; if 100 DEC's join, has time to command actually changed for me since joining..? Seems to be 100 out and 100 in.

Sticking my message from an other post as it probably better suit here (sorry for exceptionally trolling):

I have 12000 TT including 5000 CPT and LTC on A330 and more than 7000 CPT longhaul (B747 and A330) plus 2000 CPT jet.
Is that DEC openning interesting for me?
I am afraid not just because the salary and TCs are not good enough!!!!!
EK will get what they are paying for.
Hope guys (FOs) from inside will be thank for the time they gave to EK.
Why don't EK hire TREs from outside for a short time contract (very well paid and in agrement with other airlines) to train senior EK FOs waiting for their medal? ;)

Don't worry the last thing we want is another Australian astronaut telling us how to de-ice and fly the NAT tracks. You won't be missed believe me.

White none please, pray tell, why do you say that?

And Cancel2LateLunches, "slagging off" the captains you fly with is also very bad form, is it not? Particularly when someone makes claims of "babysitting" & then provides no facts to back up the claim. I wasn't slagging off EK F/O's at all. I was just pointing out some of what I had witnessed over the years, in order to back up my statement that I had had to "babysit" more F/O's than have ever had to "babysit" me. I didn't want people to think I make sweeping, emotive claims with nothing to back them up.

Some people seem to have been either blinded by emotive, self righteous rage, or show a very poor grasp of English comprehension. I know that English isn't the first language of a lot of pilots at EK, but you have to demonstrate a certain level of english proficiency in order to get the job, don't you? The things my post supposedly indicates that I have done! I've re-read it a couple of times & maybe I'm a little slow, but I just can't join the dots. And just how they know exactly what I think or believe, leaves me wondering if they are actually witches huddled around a cauldron, throwing in frog's legs, cat's whiskers & my post, so they can gain access to my innermost thoughts. Perhaps HR could use them to vet applicants to save a little time.

duststorm :ok::D:ok::ok:

PUA The military tried that, didn't always work 'cos big brain and lots of thoughts but very litle CDF - "Common Dog F:mad:"

Some of us did the University of Life :E

BabyGF VFEnext
Try to read between the lines and you will be the one you suspect you are: clever and above gliding in the center of the Universe.
Psychology is very important for instructing and detecting the whole personality of someone in reading only a few words very helpfull for selecting...
DDay mate:}

fliion,

Can't disagree with most of what you say, however:

that would be a move as a DEC I presume. What comes around............

Could've fooled me. If you read your previous post again you´ll see that even if you speak English as a first language you might find it a bit offensive.
Wow...

Yoyo

50% of KAL crews operating in US must be native English speakers per the insurance requirement ...

Your point is taken

f

Autraliancalu

It takes years of experience AND a degree to be a good psychologist. Even then it is a very grey area. Amateur psychologists have done a lot of damage in the past.

A good TRE is first of all a good captain. Someone who has enough empathy with the way a crew handles the situation, he is NOT a psychologist and far from a psychiatrist.

I have been at various training meetings in EK and more often than not it is a palaver based on distrust in their own crews. The true dynamics are often more an issue of projection than a well evidence-based opinion.

Some FO and Capt are rightfully pissed off and are ventilating their anger on this forum. It is simply impossible to draw any conclusions, based on these posts, as to the capability of these individuals. The word that comes to mind is prejudice

Every cockpit has two seats to be filled. Both require a certain degree of experience. Both pilots need to be able to fly the plane, if needed, as a single pilot in distress.

Some FO's at EK are certainly overqualified for the right seat and are ready to move on. The problem may be just an issue of replacing them. The bottleneck of a company that is expanding quickly might just be to find enough FO’s.

Finding FO’s with enough experience for the long haul is looking for people that are close to command already.

An airline like EK that has a bad reputation as an employer will have to fix:

1. It’s reliability with regard to signed agreements.

2. Create a training environment that puts emphasis on investing in training rather than checking.

3. Use psychologists to screen the cognitive capabilities of the pilots when hiring them. Following this, the upgrade failure rate should be less than 5%. If this was not done during recruitment you will run into problems. Not only during upgrade but also during normal line operations. Every airline that takes recruitment seriously does it in this way. I probably made an overstatement that a degree is necessary but the fact that one should have the capabilities to get one is not.

4. If you have the wrong people in the training department then that will reflect on their decisions and policy advice all the way up the food chain.

A) I have indeed been around here for some time.

B) Feel important? Sorry fellah; just passing on what I heard from those I know in EK pilot recruitment!!!!

C) I didn't say anything about TREs. That was in the 'quote' that I was responding to.

D) I don't ride; ergo I don't have a black horse; ergo I haven't taken any pictures of myself on it:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Now please PUA, read the posts and try and understand them! And no more stupid private messages please:=

Now the fun really starts, looks like any training qualified Capts will be offered not only DEC, but positions within the training dept. it's self.

It's more interesting than that. The reason that we required DECs is that our current crop of line pilots is too lazy. Read for yourself just above M&M's signature on the training letter.

What letter are you referring to?

Shock horror...........Like this hasn't happened before.

Take a look at the 310 out of service plan!

Oh dear MM, you just blew all the credit we gave you!

Blaming the line pilots of being lazy, not wanting to apply as TRI/E and take another shafting by dismal conditions, by a dreadful bidding system, by a even more crap e-swap, yes, blaming the line pilots working in excess of 90h for the need to get DECs, most importantly training astronauts, is extremely low!

At least now you routed part of the anger of the bypassed FOs onto the line captains!! Smart move, but without looking too much into the future. The new trainers will be met with even more contempt, now by FOs AND Captains and all of MMs good training work (yes it was very good) just goes down the drain.

I guess he has finally adapted to EK and DXB.

Just curious... how can u blame a line pilot for not wanting to commit more of his time to train? logically would it not the companies responsibility to make the position attractive enough to be able to pick and choose the most qualified and MOTIVATED people? i don't know i could not resist but state something i think is obvious

Putting DEC straight into training is to make all DEC feel welcome and give them the support they will need. It will provide more integrity and reduce the gossip that will otherwise infect the system.

It may also reduce the number of incompetent asslickers that get into the system.

They aren't putting them straight into training, but they are recruiting guys earmarked to go into training after the minimum amount of time on line.

Desert Hawk,

The comment wasn't that there is something wrong with line pilots for not wanting to train, but simply that as not enough guys want to, there really can't be too many complaints about recruiting guys who do.

Of course, making the role more attractive to existing pilots might ALSO have been an option, but..err..who do,we work for again??:hmm:

In the eyes of the disgruntled EK FO's everything EK does is wrong. Personally I'm getting a bit bored with these pilots who think they are entitled to an upgrade, if you look back at some of those who complained the most you will find that most failed and failed badly. MM said all those that meet the Min's will have a chance at upgrade, if you blow it down blame training blame yourself. You say you are ready than it should be no problem

wiz... not sure but someone ,mentioned lazy line pilots. thats what got me going. I just think that people don't seem to realize for SOME of us flying is our job and our lives are what we do outside this crazy world of airplanes. sometimes not doing training or something that is time consuming has nothing to do with work ethics but to do with personal happiness:ok: i still think EK should make the job attractive enough so the average line guy wants it!

There's a point there, I mean the one with the assessment procedures.

- You join after undergoing the psycho stuff and grilling.
- You upgrade after going through the same mill again.
- You join training after having to pick up soap for the same armchair team a third time ...

But the new DECs joining training will only have to endure that torture once!

Has anyone ever raised the question if the too big failure rate of upgrades and the too small number of training applicants originates right there with the EK psycho team?

Once is enough, for DECs and for normal line pilots.
Maybe more buddies pass the upgrade because they're less demoralized and more captains join training because they don't have to bow to some morons again. Result:
No need for DECs and we could save some money by reducing the psycho team.

Note to yourself: Stop reading PPrune, that pleases all.

Who is considering joining Emirates as an FO? I can't imagine anyone with any kind of self esteem wanting to have their command further delayed by DECs.
On the same note what makes the QF joiners think they are going to pass the selection at Emirates this time around? No one has Qatar as their first choice so that means they probably failed in their attempts to get into Ek the first time around. And they think they are going to pass this time?
We all know Emirates is very desperate but not that desperate.
Good luck

EK DEC
 

Hi there!!!

I was wondering whats the CV ( age and TTime ) of the standard EK Capt. and FO as well.

On the other hand, whats the age of the youngest EK B777 Capt and TTime.

Best regards

"Who is considering joining Emirates as an FO?"

I guess anybody who wants a good job with the fastest time to a wide body command of all airlines today.

Why did you take it? Did Qatar turn you down?

Who says EK is a good airlines Patty? Never mind we know what airline you are flying at and I am sure Emirates looks like a good airline to you and your experience.
Never applied to Qatar thank God. Emirates is bad enough. You probably think even QF is a good airline.

Swan Man

Sorry but you're pathetic. You're trashing every other airline and their crews. Only you and EK are good enough... and still you are complaining about the people that would apply to EK....

If you think EK is crap then leave, find the other airline that gives you a command faster (if any) and live a nice life.

Please tell us when you find your nirvana...

Taking DEC trainers (elect) is an admission of defeat.

For whatever reason, MM can't make the job attractive enough for those in the company to want to do it. Personally, it's about the lifestyle. The extra money would be handy but something better than min days off and being forced to end up a TRI/TRE would make a big difference. (I know they say you can stay TRI-AO for a while but they still expect you to go the whole hog eventually).

Patty you and your lot just aren't worth it. Look what you have done to the industry. You think EK is a good job. Now that is pathetic!
No wonder, you could never get a good job like at AF, BA, LH, AA, DL, QF and now you want to jump the line at Emirates. You couldn't get hired at a real airline and now you want to jump the line at a middle of the road airline.
You couldn't pass the 1st time around what makes you think you will pass this time around?

Speaking of the devil ... have they hired any DECs yet?
DECs or newly upgraded captains are a workload for the F/os just the same:-)

they hired a bunch of DEC's on the airbus I was told, that means 330 forever as there will be no more transition from 330 to the 380 soon.

Sorry to hear that, if you are in the Airbus.
But, again, this is EK and things can change quicker than the weather in Seattle or Melbourne.

Noooooooooo. . . . . :{

First DEC interviews this week

Prioritising Ex EK Crew and TRI/TRE's

Apparently over 1000 applications

150 DEC's this coming financial year which wont affect FO upgrades :hmm:

They will be put through the entire Command course. So training is min 35 days.

Selection is going to apparently be much tougher than the previous intake for DECs

Well with over 1000 applications and only 150 to pick - it will be cherry picking time. Those that get through will have to work hard but they will deserve the position once they pass the line check.

No DEC deserves the position especially since Emirates does not need DECs and they severly disadvantage the hard working FOs here.
Originally only 50 DECs and now 150? And this is not going to disadvantage any FO? You can't be that delusional!

Show me one EK FO that hasn't been screwed by some policy changes over the last 6 years, I haven't met one so far.

Always wondered how EK managed to survive all this time with such a stupid policy of only upgrading FO .:ugh:
With a huge number of plane on order sooner or later they had to come back to the old habit like the competitor neighbors.

As a Capt on the B777 with more than 3500h on type If I decide to join EK I will have to do it on the right seat an wait for all the FO to complete their upgrades before I can move back to the left seat woooh.

Who ever managed to sell a stupid idea like this to Emirates in this highly competitive market, for such a long time must be very very good.:ok:

Congratulation,

They survived by upgrading FOs with a minimum of 3000hrs on type, usually many more, with a proven track record, and unlike DECs joining us from outside, a good level of exposure to a network that most other airlines who operate and handfull of 777s would never have seen. Oh and one more thing, our FOs have operated just about every varient of 777 that exists, not just one or two.

Don't get me wrong I think we need all the pilots we can get, but many a so called experienced 777 qualified pilot has come here and flunked, some have been outright dangerous...our FOs are highly experienced, well trained and competent, so if your coming here as a DEC don't make the mistake of thinking that you’ll breeze through just because you have a bit of time on type.