Captain 330/340 transfer policy
 

Hi there,
I am sure you heard the news: bus skippers seating on the RHS of the fat lady to build PIC hours,whilst maintaining terms and conditions....care to comment?

All the money, none of the responsibility - to some no doubt would sound like Christmas!!

It sucks, big time, but as long as you don't have any change to your terms and conditions, AND, don't have to go through an NaC course then it might be the best job in EK. However the Oxygen thieves in the bouncy castle almost certainly won't do that...

Another nail in the coffin of morale at EK...

All the 330/340captains with less then 2000 hrs PIC on 330/340 received an email:

you'll go RHS "as a captain" acting FO maintaining terms and conditions, for a period dependent upon your PIC time ( 24months/1500 hrs if with <1000 330 PIC ;18months/1000hrs if with <2000hrs). When time is up, you'll go trough a " Captain transfer course" (whatever that means)upon approval by the A380 Command review board.
Funny part is that is not retroactive....those whom just CCQed without requirements are SAFE......

They call this management?
 

Let me understand this new policy correctly…..

• We hired a number of DECs to the A330. We hired them because they were apparently experienced on the Airbus.
• We gave them all the company induction training, an Airbus A330 type rating course, and a Airbus A330 command course.
• We didn’t communicate with our pilots for a whole year, and during that time we discreetly retired over 20 Airbus aircraft without telling anyone what the plan would be, contrary to our company policies.
• Then after using these DECs for less than 6 months, we transferred some of them to the Airbus A380 as Captains without any serious operational incident occurring and they are SAFE!

However, because a local captain flying a Boeing was involved in our first ever hull loss, we then decided that any remaining DECs and long-time Captains would be relegated to the right seat of the A380 and make them First Officers until 1000 hrs A380 time AND 18 months on type AND 3 successful proficiency checks.:eek::eek::eek: Sure, we will let them keep their existing benefits, but we will need them to go through another selection review board and upgrade course in a few years.:sad::sad::sad:

Surely this policy needs to be reviewed and explained to the mere workers. Is there any guarantee that there will not be yet another policy change, and when you fail the subsequent upgrade course, you will be salary deducted the extra pay for time spent in the right hand seat?:ouch::ouch::ouch:

The G.

Wtf?! Is it April fools day or something?

..nope...unfortunately is black on white...I reckon that since this affects only a small part of the left seater population, it will be tolerated,digested and eventually forgotten..." no one cares of the fallen tree if it is not in his backyard"..

Lets be honest, the 330/340 guys have been getting the short end for a long time and no one has said a word. This will not be any different.

The recent DEC's have not yet been transferred. They will go as FO's. What a shambles this place has become.

you got that wrong sluggums...some dec's have already ccqed..and hence they are SAFE.
I would be more "troubled" considering those "regular" captains with almost 1900 EK PIC and 9 yrs in EK ...

Ok, fair enough. DEC's from 3-5 years ago...

5yrs ago no dec....3 years ago they all transitioned,with very few exceptions...only dec's left are from oct 2015 onward..8/10 guys may be?...what about the "regular"?

The boys in question are already starting to bail like rats on a sinking ship, and rightly so. Good luck to them all. None of that deserve this. It's just rude.

If I was 10 years younger and still on the 330 I know where I would be. $$$

Shocking, sad and rude.
Like MosEisley writes, the smallbus chaps have been getting the short end of the stick for too long a time. This is just adding insult to injury.

A new and disgraceful low for the hardest working guys. I never believed the monkeys in EGHQ could drill any deeper.

Why can't they go to the 777 as Captains?

And what's so fn special about 380?

I think we all know there is nothing special whatsoever about the 380. There are however certain individuals in A380 Training who are very, very, special indeed.

This new policy has nothing to do with the training department.

I think many actions could have taken to "react" to the sad ek521 episode,if this is the concern ....to be honest we do not know...but it would appear like they are looking into raising the experience level on the fat lady (only the fat lady..I dare to add and only starting from sep 18th onward)...fair enough: even if I am one of the screwed one, I remember a few year back, those little bus skipper whom to jump the fence had to accrue 4yrs command 330/340 and 3000 hrs...Nevertheless they never had to seat on the right ,nor go again trough screening and "captain transfer course" (by the way: where is it again on the OMD?)

What bothers me the most is why not make us cruise captain or having us augmenting? Still another SAFE captain would be in charge and the cost would be probably less (now in theory we could have a fat lady with 4 FD7 pay grade in the cockpit...)...Logging CM2 time is a professional suicide and we know that...

I want to go even further..what about new made fat bus captain? and what about 777? Now experience is measured in tons and not in hours?

I believe I would have loved to learn a big deal from my colleagues on the 380 and I would have loved to augment even 3 years if that was asked to make them feel SAFE...now I just want to bail out. Forgive me guys but I think that no one will care about the few of us affected by this BS...and soon all will be forgotten in the usual numbness.

Interesting reading. A while back I wondered how they would deal with the eventual close of the 330/340 fleet. The cruise relief captain is not a bad ideal, but then you are admitting that the only issue to your conversion 'inexperience' is takeoff and landing (which it probably just is).

Would there be any takers if LHS 777 was offered? Not the most cost effective option, but it is the most under staffed fleet.

Cruise relief implies someone else is signing the book...this is the issue apparently: who is in charge,not who lands ( a cadet can land,can't he?)...

I reverse the question 777-200LR: would you take the RHS on the A380?

Yes, I know several who would be takers for 777 LHS over sitting RHS on the 380. It's honestly a more valuable type rating at this point anyways.

Then the "more experienced" 3000 hr.777 guys could transfer over to the 380 LHS...after all, why would you want to put an 3-4 yr. 330/340 Capt in that slot??? :rolleyes:

This is what happens when policies are made by people who haven't flown an aircraft in years, or not all, and spend their time in an office instead. Total disconnect. It's a :mad: joke.

Just to remind you that those 'demoted' will be working 60 hrs a month in the RHS on full Captains T's & C's. It will be the best job in the company, don't feel too bad for them.

So I assume that senior FO's on the 330/340 about to upgrade will have to obtain 2000hrs on type now too to avoid leapfrogging their colleagues, or is it still 2500hrs as per the book?

Pilots........our own worst enemies......
And you Xulu are a clear example.......

Given these guys will have 380 P2 on their license for up to 4 years it severely limits opportunities else where...

When airbus closes the a380 line completely it's a real dead end for the RHS A380.

Yes, clearly Flareflyer.

You can choose to focus on the positives, or the negatives. That's all. Perhaps if I add a few dots to the end of my sentence you may understand that.....

p

Xulu- as one of those affected, I find your "best job" comment offensive.

You make the assumption that I don't enjoy the responsibility that comes with a command - I do.

You also assume that I would somehow relish giving that up for a minimum of 18 months just to be made to go hoop jumping again for no reason - I do not.

Think more carefully before posting your ill thought out opinions.

I personally agree with Flareflyer and GA Button.

Xulu, I reckon you have your reasons and I do appreciate your bitterness. You have my sincere sympathy.

Certainly though you leave me with a question: Do you really think that "a trouble shared is a trouble halved"? Dos it make you feel better to see colleagues senior then you are being mis-treated? Where this pattern bring you? Does it make your life or career any better?

Unfortunately it is true what Flareflier posted:Pilots........our own worst enemies......

By the way, any comment is appreciated and thank you for yours Xulu...
I started this thread to know what people would think about this "new policy" , so I asked for it...

increase of expierence


sorry to repeat myself


OMA required 2000hr widebody prefered airbus prior to EK to be a direct entry 380 FO.
recruitment for DEC required 7000hr total and 3000hr command on 55t plus(not necessarily airbus)


Who is NOT qualified to be a 380 captain
FO with 3000+ hr on EK airbus in the EK network coming from 330/340, including 1000 to 1500hr 380
Com with multiple years command on 330/340


what are the high risk phases of a flight. so far i know taxi,T/O and landing. what have we done now
instead of appreciating the expierence of doing a hight rate of sectors on a widebody we are defining the expierence level to the MTOW and to the possible age of the candidate.


who is qualified to be 380 commander
FO with no widebody expierence prior to EK, and the minimum time (arround 2000hr total flight time EK, equals max 1500 stick time 380)
B777 Commander with no or minimum airbus expierence which is years back, in the worst case not even 330/340, it might be 310 time.
Pilots who only flew to DEST where ATC is on a high standard, the airports are fitted with large scale runways usually flat areas at sea level, easy to accomodate a 380.


conclusion
the less airbus widebody expierence you have in EK and prior, the more you are qualified to be a 380 captain. And the more you are able to sleep or watch movies in the bunk the better your chances to be an upgrade nominee.


does that make sense or is it logic, I dont know

deafening silence
 

A deafening silence as expected..... nobody cares but the few miserable affected... office is a steel wall ..

We have been penalized by the misfortune of operating a dying fleet ,forcing us to fly MFF 50 hrs a months for the last few years, with 2hrs sectors and 25 cycles in war places and monsoon weather, all in the "wee small hors of the morning"...but this is not enough to accrue experience...we need to be SAFE to be allowed to fly the big bus....

this is one of the saddest thing that I have seen in this line of job...we touched the bottom of the barrel and we keep on digging because we are way passed scraping..

I guess no much else to say. Hello tomorrow.

somebody said it already here - nobody id deafer than the one who does not want to listen.:sad:

The poor 340 guys have all my sympathy. EK is definitely the naked emperor and think their clothes are still the most beautiful on earth, although the sight is sickening.

But some thoughts on here are somewhat strange:

Suddenly the much bashed T7 becomes attractive again to busdrivers (:eek:)
Furthermore, which T7 driver do you honestly think would apply to transfer onto an animal with a death spell? (:ugh:)
.... or do you suggest they should be forced? You know, the ones that apparently had such a horrible outcome on transition courses?

The only reason it might be attractive is because you continue with your command, and it gives you more options should you not wish to stay here, than sitting right seat on a 380 for who knows how long. Which would you prefer?

Furthermore, I would not want to force any guys to flip over who didn't wish to go, I was just being sarcastic as to the fact that they took 777 Capt's over a few years ago. Hence the eye roll at the end of my comment that you chose not to include in the above. Nice.

the other question is


when now the downgraded, at full Command pay futher FO will be there for 18month 1000hr and and 3 PPC. LIC entry P2 and modified NAC course to recover the command position.
But what happens than if the 380 will not be contiunued and the company sudenly has the brilliant idea in 18 month they will not need anymore comanders for a reasonable amount of time
Boom, and suddenly our expierenced 330/340 captains find themself on a permanent FO role.
next possible step will that somebody will find out that somebody else made the wise deceision that a FO gets a command pay, and because in the office are never failures made, its only the FOs failure that he get the command pay. Make a tought on whats the next step than, because we need to save money. Or will all FO get an pay raise to command level because they have been delayed, cheated and overtaken. I am sure plan B will not happen.

quick question


what happens to the 330 DEC who had been already moved to the 380, they dont have the hours either. Are they save? intressting enough some of them are trainers