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the amount of abuse the 330/340 people have received is appalling. but why am i surprised. the rules of the game here change daily.
at least the 310 folks got to pick their equipment, as i recall as posters above had said, the experience gained in back-of-the-clock ops, to difficult airfields.....I'll take that pilot over the 7am departure to EU or augment thousands of hours pilot any day. what am i missing |
I think that says a lot
company grew by 373 pilots since Dec2015 320 Pilots left us in the same time |
Originally Posted by WB1900
(Post 9518050)
I think that says a lot
company grew by 373 pilots since Dec2015 320 Pilots left us in the same time |
WB
I know this place sucks but are you really saying that 320 pilots have left this hell hole in 10 months? "company grew by 373 pilots since Dec2015 320 Pilots left us in the same time" Yes just about everyone I know has their exit strategy in place and are actively looking to escape but I don't think the company is losing 32 pilots a month. If the idiots keep up these insane policies the company might get that many pilots to leave but I don't think we are there yet. |
to correct myself, have disappeared from the senoritylist.
scary enough to say that we could be close to a normal airline. these numbers mean we have hired and trained 690 pilots in 12 month and sure there are still some to come. but looking at the requirements as the requierments are low, i am wondering if there is still somebody out who wants. now all the TP guys have taken there chance to move to a big jet and i believe who is not here yet will not come at all. what i like to say is that if all the pilots who left or intend to leave would be here things could nice. Recruitment has done it job but the unbroken greed, and ignorance makes it impossible for the rest. let compare something else LH has 120.000 employees and runs something of about 800 airplanes in the group. Average cost per employee over all> USD 110.000/year 800 airplanes with 120.000 Employees EK has plus minus 65.000 over 240 airplanes. Average cost per employee over all USD 47.000/year looking into that LH has: multiple stations part time maternity cover after birth (2 years for pilots and CC) 120 days off per year and 35 or 42 leave days (depending on the age) Happiness factor 85% what does EK have labour is wastly cheaper and still we cannot manage to hold people why? because of greed and ignorance makes me feel sad |
Bluffontheriver123
I believe you got that very wrong mate: those who were by passed were not FORCED; they laughed at us calling us crazy to elect to stay on the small fleet. We had been given an option.Each one gambled with his own money. While the big bus gambler enjoyed the next 3-4 years of nice rosters and timing and many days off in beautiful layover locations, we had the wonderful 4 night in a row indian turns and 8 days off. It might be a matter of pay, but is not: it is matter of being downgraded and having to redo a "transfer course" (whatever that means). Still stand and is clear to me that to many,you included, this is fair and it is ok to be shafted just because is not you... B.O.H.I.C.A . |
Hi CTWO,
I am not trying to slam you only point out that you are not the only person to feel aggrieved which you clearly believe to be the case. I know you are venting but hey you are not alone. Some of the new joiners and your colleagues were actually essentially forced to the 380, recruited to the 777 or moved at the whim of the management. Some did indeed volunteer to transfer and I see from your post that you seem happy for them to be screwed: We had been given an option.Each one gambled with his own money. While the big bus gambler enjoyed the next 3-4 years of nice rosters and timing and many days off in beautiful layover locations, we had the wonderful 4 night in a row indian turns and 8 days off. But mate you really don't know the meaning of being shafted, you have lost your stripes which pains the ego but thank goodness you are still being paid. 3 years down the line you will have your stripes and not lost financially. That was not the case in the past and I guarantee you many would sign up for your deal in a heartbeat. SNAFU would work better than BOHICA. I wish you well but I also wish all your colleagues well too. |
Originally Posted by Bluffontheriver123
(Post 9519651)
Hi CTWO,
I am not trying to slam you only point out that you are not the only person to feel aggrieved which you clearly believe to be the case. I know you are venting but hey you are not alone. Some of the new joiners and your colleagues were actually essentially forced to the 380, recruited to the 777 or moved at the whim of the management. Some did indeed volunteer to transfer and I see from your post that you seem happy for them to be screwed: Essentially you made a decision at the time which you thought would be of advantage to you as did your colleagues but the rules have changed. The first movers to the 380 were expecting a normal command time but lots of new fences were built after they moved. It has been ever thus, it doesn't make it right but that has been the status quo at EK since the times of TCK and I guarantee the warnings were being touted on PPRUNE before you joined. But mate you really don't know the meaning of being shafted, you have lost your stripes which pains the ego but thank goodness you are still being paid. 3 years down the line you will have your stripes and not lost financially. That was not the case in the past and I guarantee you many would sign up for your deal in a heartbeat. SNAFU would work better than BOHICA. I wish you well but I also wish all your colleagues well too. You said some have been forced.. then I am sorry for them.. you see, for me it will never be SNAFU,because the situation is not normal and I do actually give a F*** even of the people who do not think likewise. Best regards |
Bluffon, your ignorance and arrogance are outstanding and you apparently have issues, and I suspect you are either a troll or have opened a new account for other nefarious reasons. Many of the 330 pilots who joined have been here well over 8 years now and trust me they do remember good schedules, and quality of life. And yes they are being shafted to the extreme! The fact you are unable to see this is baffling. You want 43 pilots to essentially bet their careers EK will make them captains again. You want 43 Captains to take EK at their word? Once P2 is placed on their licence they will can not be hired as captain and will be trapped at EK. So they are essentially being forced out. Those who can leave will leave. Sad that EK treats it employees with so little regard. Confusing you are unable to see it!
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It is worrying that people so quickly forget how "temporary " measures at EK soon become the rule. To have Capts demoted on fleet transfer is not a thing that is good for anyone.
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Agreed. Forced leave, for example.
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The temporary delayed issue of rosters to end of month to help out with SARS. The temporary reduction to 30 days leave to help out after global melt down. We will increase the productivity threshold to 92hrs, and review it later on etc etc.
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it is 43 Captians are effected
25 are DEC, 15 of them are upgraders, which had a delayed upgrade due to DEC further 25 DEC started in summer 2013 are already tranfered (they dont have the time on there back either) but they already seem to be safe. Sad for those have had a delayed upgrade. further there are 52 FO still on the A330, 12 of them are 2012 and earlier which face now a long term RHS due the stick time requirement. as well as all delayed transfer FO to 380 which will be overtaken by direct entry FO with less hours. makes a clear picture - How cares about 148 FO now having to go another 2 years after being between 4 and 6 years in the company. as i said the less hours you have on the 330/340 in the company the better your chances for a career. |
for the last 15 years people post here that everybody gets shafted sooner or later in EK, you signed knowingly with the devil, we old-timers warned you
|
Originally Posted by Rotating Bacon
(Post 9523037)
for the last 15 years people post here that everybody gets shafted sooner or later in EK, you signed knowingly with the devil, we old-timers warned you
....I heard someone recently talking about the two buckets we carry along embracing "the airline:: "the one for the money and the one for the ****..you got to leave whichever fills up first"... I'll leave you the comment on that... Nevrtheless, It would appear yours are pretty deep and capacious , since you did not fill any up to the rim.. yet... May be I was hoping to have your same luck.... I wager when you signed up you did not have a clear picture either...lecturing, my dear friend, is easy with the wisdom of hindsight... We are both here, I reckon...each one for his own personal reason....and may be I should have known better. Does that add something to the discussion topic? |
..tout est perdu fors lhonneur ....
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Meeting
So what was the meeting on the 29th like? Any good outcomes? Changes?
|
Only got to chat with one guy briefly. His question at the meeting was to JA and asked if they were aware of the resignations this would cause. He said yes and they were "prepared to lose 50%." "We are not short of pilots".
With another twist, the 330 upgrades who transferred to the 380 as CA within the past few months now are having meetings with one of the chief pilots. Doesn't sound good. Sorry not much, but was a short chat. |
"We are not short of pilots". |
We are not short of crashes
We are not short of management pilots with landing issues We are not short of viscous behaviour towards pilots We are not short of VP and above grades We are short of experience We are losing the plot..... |
I don't think any changes that might occur with CM will effect the front line crew for a very long time. It's not the Titanic sinking it's raising it off the bottom.
|
Originally Posted by pilotguy1222
(Post 9525737)
Only got to chat with one guy briefly. His question at the meeting was to JA and asked if they were aware of the resignations this would cause. He said yes and they were "prepared to lose 50%." "We are not short of pilots".
With another twist, the 330 upgrades who transferred to the 380 as CA within the past few months now are having meetings with one of the chief pilots. Doesn't sound good. Sorry not much, but was a short chat. |
Originally Posted by CTWO
(Post 9525856)
Are you sure about the meeting of the last ccqed?
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PG, Have they finished the transition yet or still on the course?
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Finished. The class varies by a week or so, but I would say all have been done for a month at least. The notice of this came via email. Nothing on the roster to indicate.
I will know the details on the 3rd after his meeting. |
Vote with your feet ! That's the only satisfaction you will get from EK.
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Not short of Pilots ?
Interesting indeed .
As if JA would know ! Inept past manpower planning estimates bare this out surely . Veiled threats are a common defensive posture response A form of mimicking the management defensive strategy ; 50 % is unusually precise don't you think ? Unless something is afoot with a fleet reduction policy to fit CM ,s plan ( discussed in the gents toilet apparently ) see the email post v funny ! , conspiracy theorists go ahead, endless material , that's what this forum is for . Sorry for the guys affected by this , truly . |
Originally Posted by pilotguy1222
(Post 9526019)
Finished. The class varies by a week or so, but I would say all have been done for a month at least. The notice of this came via email. Nothing on the roster to indicate.
I will know the details on the 3rd after his meeting. after a powerpoint presentation (yes, you read it right!!!), they will be told : "-airline life is a b****,take it or leave it; -could have been worse, you could have lost T&C's; - we have plenty of captains and if we loose you is just the manpower for 2 ULR birds: not a big deal...; - things will not change, but do not worry: will report this meeting upstairs; -BTW, give us back credit card and cell phone." Sorry for the other guys...sincerely..I hope this will not affect you.. |
Wait who is getting possible upgrades in the near future. and look who can transfer fleet, then look who is downgraded and compare the numbers in the seniorty list.
eventual there will be a little down size an than compare the numbers with the article in AIN. lets see if somebody out there has the same theory if have. |
...people removed from their 380 upgrade course, whilst new "meetings" are scheduled for people already on the LHS...interesting week ahead for the airbus fleet...
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Any more news on the gcaa imposed age 35 limit for P1?
Will the under age guys loose their commands? |
If implemented by GCAA ( which I doubt) all those under would be put in the RHS. That's why it's not a GCAA thing. Only rumour .
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It has been made well clear at the meeting: it is not GCAA.
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CTWO,
Did they say at the meeting this is really happening? I've already sent my CV but just thinking if I should put my apartment for sale. |
Organisations with a healthy climate typically exhibit:
Integration of personal and organisational goals Justice in treatment and equitable practices Mutual trust, consideration and support among different levels Open discussion of problems and conflict Acceptance of the psychological contract between both parties Equitable system of rewards Opportunities for growth Concern for quality of working life Sense of identity with and loyalty to the organisation |
Originally Posted by X-BleedOpen
(Post 9527816)
CTWO,
Did they say at the meeting this is really happening? I've already sent my CV but just thinking if I should put my apartment for sale. |
General. As you allude to, NONE of this are applicable to the Costa Dwellers in the Bouncy Castle.....
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He was referring to the age restrictions.
330 Capt > 2000 HR bounced to the RHS, that is an EK implemented restriction |
Ok, so it is official. All the recent 380ccq's are going back the RHS. Sounds like the same conditions as the 330/340 capts
|
Originally Posted by pilotguy1222
(Post 9528468)
Ok, so it is official. All the recent 380ccq's are going back the RHS. Sounds like the same conditions as the 330/340 capts
BOHICA |
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