I love your reasoning LHR.

I guess the standard dropped just after you got in the door!

Like it or not, you are a product of the recruiting system and company that recruited the guys you say are not as competent as all that went before them.

As an aside, I haven't particularly noticed a major degradation in the guys I see in the training college

Take it all on the chin LHR. We all know there are still the ones enjoying their honeymoon. Soon all the stains in the bed will begin to smell somewhat. !!!!

Although I don't want to generalize, I think LHR has a point...

Another way to illustrate this is looking at the passing rates of the interview. A few years ago, many people I know tried to get in EK, only a few succeeded. The last year, none of the people I know going for an interview failed the test. Just ask a new joiner how many guys of his 'interview-group' failed, and most of the time you will hear that everyone passed.

It might be that only very good guys show up for the interview the last year, but that seems a bit unlikely, so the standards to get in must have dropped.

Again, I'm not generalizing things. You might have joined EK recently and be exactly what we were looking for since years ago. But in that case you were probably not so impressed with some of your colleagues...

MR8, please get your facts straight my friend.

A friend of mine interviewed 3 months ago and out the 2 groups that day (total of 10 pilots) 3 got hired.....So what's your point again???

LHR, I would reply to your racist remarks and your superior airmanship, but it's worth the time to type it, as I mentioned before, if it's that bad at EK and it's not the place for you anymore, well, you seems to highly qualified airman, there are a lot of jobs out there for looking for you, jump on it, don't waste your talent here at EK with guys who are not worthy of your talent.... Man, you have issues.. grow up ;)

LHR did it again
 

Or one more DEC who takes LHR Rains command so that we all can feel save when we travel on EK


Zomp,

What the he11 do you know about me! Your views are most disturbing to this airline. Are you defending the DEC decision? If so that is a pretty good reason why this airline is going downhill. So you want more DECs to come so one FO can't get an upgrade? If that is the logic you don't belong at any airline. And by the way what 3rd world airliine did you come from? Lets stick together and win!



Zomp,

"So we can all feel save"????? What the heck does that mean?
Yes, i realize what you intended, but in your venomous and ridiculous attack on LHR, you should try to appear at least moderately intelligent.

I have read a few of your posts, and your POV is difficult for me to understand. You are either one of the minority azz-kissing pilots, a management doughboy or someone who simply can't comprehend the issues. Hopefully you are the latter, since at least that would offer you opportunity to become enlightened in the future.

I am astounded that you would suggest it unsafe for people to fly with LHR based on his viewpoints expressed on this forum. It is one of the most absurd things i have ever read here and you should reconsider posting such comments in the future.

Yes, I have suggested you are one of 3 types of individuals, none of which I find decent but I have no idea of your skills, or lack thereof, in relation to your profession. It's possible you are a good pilot with sound judgement and above average skills. Although if i am correct in my assessment of you, then based on my experience with individuals like yourself, that is highly unlikely. Then again, perhaps you made that post in a moment of insanity and we should give you the benefit of the doubt.

You have crossed the line and need a little beeyatch slapping. (that's intended in humour)

LHR Rain,

Got to hand it to you son, you sure do make life at Ek interesting. I only ask that we all do not take your general blanket statements as facts. I know of 6 guys from the States who have joined in the last month or will join this month. They are from Usair, Delta, Airtran, and Independence Air. All are former Captains on 737's/320's Not exactly 3rd world and no experience.

You are right in that we have hired many pilots from Asia, India, and the Middle east, my point is that not all of the new joiners fit your assessment from the Training College. You are also assuming that just because someone is from "the 3rd world" (where is that anyway?) they are inferior pilots. We will only know their piloting skills after we have flown with them! Until then it may be a bit premature to judge them.

Keep up the posts, though. You do indeed encourage a good debate!

Regards,

330 Man

At least LHR has the balls to speak up.
Hes on the right track just a little agressive and i know he wont let an aircraft slam into the side of a hill , some people i doubt would speak up when it is required and that goes for Captains as well.
Keep it up LHR , the other guys have to face facts.

On another note it seems transition upgrades may happen this will liven up the recruiting , a really good move if it happens.

And one more thing why would you leave a good american carrier if you were a captain there ................somethings not right with that.....:ok: :ok:

I find this guys posts neither interesting or amusing. Any suggestion that our Asian, Indian or African colleages are any less qualified to be here is unmitigated racist BS. It shouldn't be tolerated by the mods.

A few weeks ago he posted a load of complete rubbish about a JFK flight going over the FTL's and landing short of fuel. All completely false and he knew it. LHR also led the charge when the 777 guy had the 12R runway issue, he was quite happy to slander a colleage without knowing any of the facts.

Most, if not all of what this guy posts is childish self serving claptrap. He clearly is a guy with a lot personal and profesional failures in his life.

LHR rain will be sitting in the right seat to all these new guys on course right now so he better check his attitude at the door.

psychometrics??
 

Folks,

nice to following this disussion.
What makes some people believe that they are "A Class" people?

Can you give me an explanation where this world begins?

Why they are Hull losses in the A Class world?

Why "A Class" people are recruiting "D-Class" people?

It´s makes me throwing up to read this kind of stuff of lowbrainers.

I have to agree with Earl and LHR.

Where is the Moderator?

The Mod is back - keep your hat on. Occasionally they let the mods out to slip the bonds of Earth thing - I've reviewed the posts and removed a few racist issues which crossed the line. A warning to all contributors to the forum & this thread specifically, to avoid racist posts or posts that would be offensive to those of other cultures. 4HP

What is racist in any of my posts? My posts might not be politically correct but as you have probably gathered already I really don't give two hoots about that concept or idelogy. What I say might strike a raw nerve but it is not a lie and definitely not racism.
Is it not a fact that most recently hired EK pilots could not have been hired in years gone by? Is is also a fact that a greatly reduced number of pilots from the UK, Canada, OZ and NZ are applying to EK? Can't most of you pilots put two and two together and figure out what is going on here?
I have to agree with Scotter. What are all those American captains coming over here for? Are they running away from something?

LHR,

tell me why you went away from your "Class A" environment?
Can you let me know what makes you different from others and if you are Brit why you are not flying BA?

And who told you that UK, Canada, OZ and NZ are "class A"?

What is with all these 3rd world people like, French, Swiss, Germans, Dutch, Belgiums, Italian, Spanish, Russians, Brasil and so many other nations on our globe?

I should have known it better that the level of this discussion stands in a direct relation to the level of education.

cheers

many countries/airlines who train their ab initio pilots came up with a percentage x (i will not go into numbers, but they
all come very close) of the population having the required minimal skills to operate commercial jets. same applies to almost
any highly specialised task, if you want to keep up quality of the applicants. main ennemy to quality has always been quotas or nepotism, that's why most of the training bodies fund the applicants, as to eliminate that only the rich or influencial
could qualify. taking this into account, it is easy to determine when or where the quality cannot be upheld. it's when you either need more numbers or more of a specific number, all exceeding the empiric percentage x. a manufacturer tried to outwit this by designing aircraft that can be flown by a monkey, it failed miserably. airline managers try to outwit this simply by risk management. this is a thin line, prone to failure as demonstrated by i.e. value air or crossair (to name only "first world" companies).
we can all judge ourselves how close our airlines come to this line. but because it's a wide ranged matter of time our managers will continue that risk game, always knowing they can easily blame failure on individual pilot error. if someone starts pointing at the problem, some regions pop up more than others (see above). that has absolutely nothing to do with race, but with situation. if the discussion is suffocated with the racist argument, it's just as unprofessional as by generalising with the third world argument. i don't like the agressiveness of lhr rain (remember his general bashing of dec's), but it's too easy to shoot this messenger and stay p.c. by acting as if this problem does not exist.
ttn

What is with all these 3rd world people like, French, Swiss, Germans, Dutch, Belgiums, Italian, Spanish, Russians, Brasil and so many other nations on our globe?

Dear 4legsaday,
What is Brasil doing in the middle of those European nations?Keep and stay at south.

[prone to failure as demonstrated by i.e. value air or crossair (to name only "first world" companies).
Dear Tutleneck,
Since when is Value Air considered a "first world" airline?
COLOR=red][COLOR=darkblue]:confused: :yuk: :yuk:

SO ACCORDING TO YOUR POST:


AUS, SA, UK, IR,NZ PILOTS = VERY GOOD AND SAFE PILOTS

REST OF THE WORLD PILOTS = BAD AND UNSAFE PILOTS

sharkey, i might have got the wrong name. i was referring to that late us loco, one of them crashed in mia.

Dear sharkattack,

I am sorry that I did´t gave a complete list of all nations on our planet, but you can do a research and will find easily that there are a lot and you might find also brasil amongst.
I guess it is not very easy to understand the message within my post...

I just don´t like that people (regarding their classification) prepare for an interview, (I guess they have to) and then start to nag around because they will not be upgraded, which thanks god, with an attitude like theirs is safer for the rest of the class "D" world.

Looking to CRM and flight safety situation with this attitude, I hope you guys understand what bullsh1t you are telling here.

cheers

Just because EK used to hire from the previous metioned airlines and now does not, does not make EK a racist airline. There are many many fine pilots from England, Scotland, OZ, NZ etc that are not white. That is not what I was referring to when I said EK is recruiting from different places. It is only the posters on this site that are reacist that presume that everything anyone says with regard to hiring practices are racists. If the presently hired pilots at EK were good enough before they would have been hired before regarless of color of skin. Get over yourselves and stop looking at the world with race in mind.

It is my experience that those without the intellectual capability to counter an argument.... quite often raise the race issue as a means of discrediting someone.

What is the problem with raising the issue that EK now hires more individuals from alternate sources than they have in the past? Labelling sources as A or B or whatever may be taken the wrong way by some people, that is true, but I has nothing whatsoever to do with race. I don't give a rats ass if someone is black or white or pink or purple, I only care about their abilities as a pilot and to a lesser extent our combined abilities to socialize together after the flights.

It is disturbing to read posts falsely accusing someone of racism.

It is my humble opinion that EK has made every effort to minimize issues about race and they have succeeded. I have yet to witness one notable instance of racism eminating from the flight deck (aside from one individual with whom I voiced my concern). That is a testament to the quality of pilots we have at EK. I hope it stays that way.

LHR Rain and Scooter,

Boys,boys boys,
You do understand what the term former captains means right? They used to be captains at their companies but were moved back to the right seat because of cutbacks. One of those coming this month is still a Captain at his present company which is in bankruptcy and will not last longer than a year.

In the case of Usair, when you furlough 1900 pilots then logic dictates that every pilot remaining on the property moves back 1900 numbers. Assuming half of the list are Captains and half F/O's then you now have 950 less Captains on the active list. Thus there are 950 FORMER Captains. It ain't rocket science, just basic math.

See, even here you keep discovering!

Regards,

330 Man

330 Man you are always so helpful to us without the wisdom that you have attained over the years. That was a basic, logical explanation that even I understood.
Next question is just because those ex-captains leave the US to come as FOs to EK do they make more or less money.
I expect that EK mangement loves that they are coming to the sand.

Rain has some valid points.

When I joined EK there were several exUS pilots from Eastern they aint here any more.
The US pilots need jobs,EK offers that but when the US market picks up how many will stay?Good luck to them if they come EK are lucky.
For those that gave up good jobs as opposed to needing work because they had no work we are all now in the same boat.

The fact that 1st world pilots are leaving in bigger numbers than ever before that courses remain unfilled for December speaks volumes.Those that come now,come because they have to.

So fill the spaces?Easy.Drop the entry requirements and standards that once existed.Hey presto we have the pilots.
Simple take all 25 that apply daily.
QB

LHR Rain, In your post of November 2nd you very clearly referenced a lack of a certain skin color to base your judgement of the new pilots on. Yes, you have gone back and edited that out and have since tried to rationalize it, but the fact remains your post of November 2nd was very rascist. Instead of editing and then apologizing you have spent the last week digging an even bigger hole. I've been silent on this for the last week hoping you would just learn to keep your mouth shut, but apparently that isn't going to happen.

I've flown all over the world and been involved in training many different nationalities. Some groups are better than others but it has nothing to do with race or skin color. It has everything to do with education, training, and specific airline culture.

Your post of November 2nd wasn't very well thought out and showed a terrible lack of judgement to place on a public board. I think you owe quite a few people here a public apology for your insensitive remarks. While you're at it, apologize to the DEC you slandered so thoughtlessly as well.


Typhoonpilot

I condem racism and I agree LHR's comments were not well articulated. But I dont see many of the guys on this website up in arms about sexism. Whilst some of the best pilots Ihave flown with are not from my home country and I'm no 5* pilot, some of the best pilots Ive flown with have also worn skirts when they go out for a beer.

If everybody wants to stick their heads in the sand and copy the managers thats fine. The simple fact is that the entire Pilot recruitement team management resigned a little time ago over issues of standards, along with 70% of he recruiters. The said managers resigned after our management forced them to take certain individuals that had failed the recruitment process, but came from his previous airline amongst other issues. Guys who have had no end of incidents since they arrived and they are actively looking for ways to get them out of here.

In terms of standards we get closer and closer to GF 5 years ago, and nothing is going to happen until we have a few hundred chared body parts to show for it.

LHR writes awful posts, but there is an abundance of truth behind falling standards. So why not cut all the bull **** and get back to the topic.

LHR Rain,

Good question. I do not know the answer. With all of the paycuts at Usair I am not sure of the current pay scale, plus there are other factors. If they were displaced to the right seat of the 330 or 767 international, then they are probably on reserve and not breaking the minimum guaranteed salary. (72 hours) If on the other hand they went to the right seat of the narrow body fleet for the seniority than they are flying a full schedule of 85-90 hours a month. I THINK that the narrow body salary is around 90 US per hour. Maybe someone else knows the exact figure.

Remember that they will loose 30%-40% of that for union dues, state and federal taxes, medical insurance etc. If they are like me, they did not come here for the money, but the command. A 3 year upgrade, (sometimes fantasies do come true!) here at EK will be faster then at the previous company.

TP if you know the current salary at U maybe you could correct me and shed some light.

Regards,

330 Man

LHR Rain

Interesting thread this, came across a post of yours on 2 Nov.

In this quote, it appears that you ask others to allow your own self expression within reason.

Good advice, try using it.

330 Man:

Great site for U.S. and now Canadian info is www.airlinepilotcentral.com

The specific link you requested is here:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/content/view/10/16/


TP

Hello all....
I fly for an Indian carrier and this is for all those compatriots thinking of making the move to the sandpit....
remember, the minute u step off the boat you're viewed as someone who's got low "standards" and was paid a pittance in his/her? previous airline where food on the table was hard to come by....:(
so take a good look at these posts.... the grass is always greener on the other side of Shk Zayed road.....
if u'r happy where u are and the kind of things happening in Indian aviation, there's no need to leave and suffer the humiliation of being a "poor" standard pilot....
keep the posts coming though, it's nice to see globalisation happen in aviation.....
salam namaste.....

I think you'll find that the reason the recruiting team resigned was more to do with the change in the credit/pay system, rather than any percieved issues of principle, integrity or compromised standards.
Remember this is an expat airline, no one really gives a toss about the company. when you get down to it everyone is only interested in the best deal they can get for themselves, and with the change in pay the guys decided their time was better spent on the line.

Of course with the passing of the sands of time, most of these guys will now claim that their highly principled stand was largely misinterpreted by cynics like me.

Masalama

You are not viewed that way by anyone except the 3 stooges led by LHR rain on this forum.

These clowns dont have the guts to say anything in person, they will post here protected by the anonymity of the internet.

The reality is LHR, Earl and Seaman are all
sad little men that have failed to manage their lives and careers, and its everybody elses fault.

There are a lot of oppurtunities out there, but you have to be an adult about it.

Dont come to the middle East and complain about the heat, or join a long haul airline and complain about flying at night, or move from London to Dubai and complain about the traffic, thats what these guys do.

Stay or go, you do have great opurtunities in India. But without exception everyone I have flown with at EK is great to work with which makes me suspect these nitwits dont really work here.

MySalami and others who enjoy india, please be sure to tell 1 billion of ya best friends just how good life is there and that they should stay where they are..... :p :ok:

It has everything to do with education, training, and specific airline culture.

Yes and those traits vary with airlines, often (strangely) in direct relation to the location in the world of the particular airline. Which is operated by people of that nationality. Who are often of a particular race. Oh my god, how racist!!!

To all the flogs who are beating themselves about supposed "racism", call it whatever you want if it makes you happier. But whichever way you look at it, some people were simply not meant to ever operate machinery and they often look different to the ones who were. Just take a look at Shake Zed Rd, FF's sake.

Jeezuz, stop beating around the freakin bush about it... :rolleyes: I know who I'd rather have flying me and my family around and it ain't the cousins of those ace ATCOs we all know and love and deal with regularly on HF to the east of here... I couldn't give a rat's tight arse if that makes me look "racist"in your eyes.

Desert Whine

After you sober up you will probably want to reconsider what you have posted above.

Dont forget, starting November 14 random alcohol and drug testing starts, you might want to review your FCN's

:ok:

"A genius is a genius, regardless of the number of morons who belong to the same race - and a moron is a moron, regardless of the number of geniuses who share his racial origin." (Ayn Rand The Virtue of Selfishness)

Maybe we can all agree to the above and move on?....

Upcoming Emirates interview
 

I have an interview in late December in Dubai and would like to know what to expect on the 30 question written test on the first day.
I have flown B727 B737 DC9 MD81/82/87/90 In command. No Airbus or 777 experience should i be worried. I have managed to get a hold of the DP Davis book ans a copy of the How to Prepare for the Cathey Pacific interview by the XYZ Captains is it the same content as for the Emirates interview?

i would appreciate an objective response from anyone who has reciently been thru this experience
thank you
George

Don't worry so much about the tech quizz. The questions are basic ATPL stuff + some basic EK questions if I remember correct. I did not prepare much and I passed. (unfotunately?)
Focus more on the group stuff and the sim ride. Don't try to impress them. Just be yourself.

The Tech quiz was very easy ... Airplane 101 stuff.

Thats really the only thing to study for. The Sim was basic ( Visual circuit, V1 Cut back to minimums with an overshoot and a hand flown ILS to landing ). CRM games were a laugh ( remember to watch the time - very critical ) and the phych quiz was weird ( IE - Which do you like more A - A well written poem or B - A well designed gun ? WHAT THE F£$% !!! )

Just be yourself, have fun with it and relax.

Good Luck

FB519

I went for the Gun....and here I am. BBJ is correct, be yourself in the group stuff, they can't offer you a job if they don't think they saw who you were. Th tech quiz was a while ago for me but I believe it is designed to make sure you are actually who you say you are, ie. an airline pilot.

And I`ll be going in january to the interview

How about the medical part? Do they take an entire afternoon or is it a simple chack up? Blood tests? etc.

And does the interview process really terminate on the 3rd day? Is it safe to book a flight back right the next day, or is it better to stay an extra day, just in case if they need something more.

Cheers

EK
 

My friend on't worry to much about the interview, word around is that EK has lowered their standart a lot......

They are taking anyone now.....:p

I just hope for your sake that you have some money saved up....because you won't be saving any in DXB....:sad:

Cheers