You have hit the nail on the head with that post.

Thank you warofthewords..

Agree with many points on the post but not with duty FTL's. I guess it will depend on which fleet you fly but in over 2 years here, not one flight into discretion. That is a World apart from the charter operation left behind where discretion was the norm on many long night flights. I also disagree with lack of choice( have always got what I requested in top 2 months and most of bids in 3rd month. Rarely seems to be a problem either with day off requests, providing you give them priority and low points for other bid requests. There are still some guys out there not bidding correctly so it's no wonder they're disappointed most months.
As I said, agree with most of the points, especially provident fund, but just trying to offer a balanced view from my own personal experience.
As a slight aside, was I the only one who was misled before applying that the EOB ( End Of service Benefits) would be in Addition to money created in the provident fund. I'm sure that the advert placed in flight contained the EOB as a seperate benefit to the provident fund leading me to believe that this would be an added bonus, NOT an either or! The truth, however, was pointed out after joining!
BYMONEK

I agree with most of your post, but you have to read between the lines when hearing the EK blurb and reading WW's post.

1.Only believe new routes when they appear on the bid system.
2.A340-600's, where has the announcement of cancellation of options/orders been made please WW. Just for verification please??
3.Staff Travel- Coming from a UK charter operator, this system is wayyy better than anything i have previously known. Yes ID 90's are a rip off to UK, but on the whole better for me.
4 FTL's should never be broke by the company or us. The system is like CAP 371, with some adjustments :{ Anyhow, augmenting died a death. I am surprised at how many colleagues aren't aware how close some trips are to the limits!

Anyhow, great post WW.
:ok:

EGGW.

Waroftheworlds

You are right about one thing, I will disagree with a lot of what is written. I do agree with your last paragraph but would add that the only view a person should trust is their own.

I can't help myself though....

"No choice as to what you fly".

Refer to the recent thread where a successful applicant was asked A330 or B777.

The majority of pilots are promoted in seniority as per the FOM.

"Border of FTDL's - Always".

Give me a break. Emotional stuff but fortunately you are incorrect.

"Little or no rest?
No say about days off or trips?"

Do we work in the same airline?

As for staff travel, it's exactly as it was when you joined so you shouldn't be surprised about the conditions and it's a lot better than most airlines.

I could go on but just can't be bothered, noteworthy for those reviewing this thread is that not all agree with what has been written.

Bymonek,

Here is some insight from the Laura Ashley fleet (oops meant Airbus).
1. At the moment Adopt delivers a roster, which is based upon the requests entered. Adopt crunches away to come up with a solution. Unfortunatley, we have the cheap option...it looks at a legal month only, unaware that a lot of trips will be illegal because of 900hrs in the past 12months, not enough rest days before hand etc. Now to make sure it all kind of works, a group of young ladies sit down with all the rosters, and check them manually. Hence the adjustments that are made between the adopt solution, and the solution which is printed and delivered to the mail box three to five days later. This is the reason that the Bus rosters are run after everybody elses, and delivered up to 1 week after the Boeing roster.
Now, because of this factoring thing which happened for a while then was taken away, but will still count if needed...no-one has any idea how many hours they are on at any given time. So, they sit down, and bid just as you do, hoping not too many adjustments will be made. So no matter how well they bid, they may not end up with the adopt solution. So to suggest that they are dim and unable to bid correctly is very short sighted...so I can see a long career for you within the EK management team.
2. Have a quick look at the ICN, PVG patterns. Have a look at the HKG-BKK-DXB pattern. Also consider that during winter, the actual flight time for these flights excedes the planned block time by 30 to 40min. Then consider why those who fly these trips are a bit peeved with FTLs. I have checked the EK web site once again and it makes nooo mention of EK being a charter company. (To help you out, these flights are in descretion before you even leave the hotel!!!! All of them are all nighters, with two pilots.)

So I am very glad that your two years here have been free from these evils. Long may it continue to be so.

Don

Sorry GN you are incorrect our FTL are some what tainted ......sure its all written in the FOM but in practice its very different.

WOTW was correct.

Why was the DXB-SEY-DXB sector operated for so long with just 3 guys and not the 4 we now have.

Remember the DXB-Moscow-DXB with just 2 guys...another Cunning Stunt

Hey what about the DXB-Seoul-DXB with 2 guys and a Bus ride that never ends from the Airport to the Hotel (usually 90 minutes)where the FOM says you are required to have 30 hours rest to operate under the "variation"

Lots of other examples. Not much point in highlighting them because the powers that be dont seem to worry.

Maybe what they are saying on the board is correct and you are from management because all of us drivers know that at the end of the day EK will do what they have allways been doing.

I dont think its worth getting wound up about it, just try and fly safe and hope for more than 9 days off next month.

GN,
Regarding FTLs, ww is not far off. Wake up. On the Airbus fleet there are over a hundred guys flying illegally. Look up the thread on EK FTLs (from about a week ago) if you want clarification. Your absence from that discussion was noteworthy.

Wotow has claimed that FTDL's are "always" on the border of FTDL's.

Has anyone gone into discretion on a DOH, MCT,KWI, or even a VIE, MUC, FRA, HKG, NBO, LHR, LGW, or SIN, lately?

There are a few patterns that "border" on FTDL's and are quite simply unsafe.

Take a leaf from Don, he's identified the patterns that have got peoples attention and need to be addressed by management.

To claim that we are always on the border of FTDL's is utter trash.

Backwater

Sorry I couldn't make the thread, I had better things to do.

Global Nomad i have been in discretion on HKG and NBO recently remember the flight goes to NBO and then they stick another 2 sectors on top. No you don't go into discretion on a DOH but they usually stick one of these after a 340 trip when you are totally shagged out.

Hey, what is with this GN rightious fool??

Why does he seem to have the final say in matters, and does corrective edditing to guys posts?
Is he a manager, wind-up or ignorant tosser?
He obviously does not lead the same life as the rest of us.
I say lets fly fast, keep lower levels for extra TAS to get home early YEAH!!
Talk about all the jobs out there and how crap our salaries are.
Go sick on a whim.
Treat the company the way it treats us YEAH!

Sorry been on the piss, will have to apologise tomorrow.

Don,
Glad to see that you've not lost your sense of humour. I'd guess that would be a prerequisite for being on the Bus fleet. You're correct on the flights you mention re FTL's but that hardly constitutes EVERY flight as was implied by WW. However, that does not make it right , I agree and would have no hesitation in refusing a duty if it was rostered illegally. Thanks also for the insight into the Airbus bids. If true and I don't doubt you for one minute, then we need more guys on the fleet. But that will mean no overtime of course.......! As I said, I can only speak from my own experience which to date has been good. I never said that any pilot was dim but I do know that there are still some pilots not bidding correctly.
Regards
BYMONEK

Amen brother, that's exactly what he is. Tries all kinds of diversionary tactic to hide the fact he is a manger and not a line pilot. Smart money is on him being KG ex boing fleet manager.

BYMONEK, I think you will find DON is on the 777 fleet, which is remarkable considering how spot on his posts are :=

BYE BYE ............

Bymonek,

I am glad you see my point. Now, when WW states that FTLs are always on the boarderline, he is not far from the truth. However, I will concede that things have improved a little in the past month or so. What is/has happened is that the Bus drivers have been rostered to 90-100hrs per month for the past two years...month after month. And to make it all the more exciting some months went to 130-140hrs when the dreaded factoring was employed. So what!!! I hear you say...well these high hour months, have also had min days off...ie 8 to 9, and legal min turn around times between flights. Now this takes some very special rostering to be able to do this....and does wonders for fatigue and health. But it is now coming home to bite the company in the butt, as fellas in large numbers have now flown all they are allowed to..hence the roster problem discussed before.
To put it in terms that you understand, consider flying the DXB-SIN-BNE-AKL-BNE-SIN-DXB pattern. Then having one or two days off then doing it all over again, and so on and so on, for 2 years straight. Now the number of nights per pattern for the Bus guys is far less, the the hours in the tube, and the time zone changes (but they happen a bit more quickly and are a larger change) are the same. When a group of days off was finally given, imagine the joy of seeing them interrupted with a midnight DOH!!
And as you stated there is the overtime. This is true. But wouldn't it be nice if the company could arrange rosters to give the fellas some time off to spend it!!! Luckily the Bus drivers, and soon to be the Boeing crews as well, when the rest area arrives, will not have to worry about provident funds and the like, as I do not think that these rosters, and old age are compatable.
Now if only the company for could some more thick B@rstards like us to join, we would have enough crews to make it all work.
Here endeth the lesson.
Don

You lot never stop do you. Fecks sake.Big plane, nice birds, lotsa booze, no alquieda (**** on doorstep theory).

DEC, ROSTA, PAY, FTL.Ad nauseum. Dont mean to be rude but the constant public airing of your dirty washing doesnt do you any favours. The frequency of the same old bitching on this forum does speak volumes about ek but enough is enough though. Wouldnt it be better served on a private forum. Have a look a round this website and compare other company's (on open forum) levels of whinging. My company is hardly ever on these forums even though we do have problems but the bosses do pay for piss ups at least twice a year which helps.

Now have a word with yourselves its getting emabrrasing to the profession as a whole.

Bart, we do have our own forum, unfortunately this requires registration and donation of our staff numbers. When you work in a country where you have few civil rights then you may understand why pilots use this, their only forum to air their grievances, in the lorne hope that some manager might listen. I would figure by your comments that you live back somewhere civilised, in that case you have no idea what you are talking about. If you find it embarrassing, then p**s off and have a drink with your managers, a privilege we are unable to copy, even if we wanted to.

Well said Bart,

fella's ( at EK ) do you honestly think it is any better here in the UK, or anywhere else in Europe ! i have friends flying for most major uk airlines and they all - including myself- are flying 800 -900 hours a year with min rest at home.

The only quick commands here are at easyjet and ryanair and bmi baby - low cost operaters !

Most other airlines it is at least a 7-10 year wait !

So my heart does not bleed for you guys ! sorry !

We are all in the same boat, sadly that is the way the industry has turned - everywhere and at most airlines, not just EK !

Global Nomad (Granger N.)
could it be that you are from Papua new Guinea???

Fellas does it really matter who GN is? He is entitled to his say just as we all are.
It has been said that the use of the private forum is avoided because people are scared of being found out, now here we are trying to oust people in the public forum.

Don

Alpha Prot,

I wouldn't get too worried about being found out on the EK forum. When Emma Rate left, I kept it going because I thought, as pilots, we might want to talk in private about some stuff without all the 'Guvnors' and '411As' joining in. As soon as I have checked the crew contacts list to make sure you are in it it your details are deleted from my in-box. As moderator all I will do is delete offensive material and then deny the poster future access. I really have no interest at all who is saying what; I just want to let them say it and I want to keep myself insulated too! The only reason staff numbers are used is because I don't want wannabees and wind up merchants to screw up our the site and there isn't an easy way of setting global access for flightdeck.

But I guess paranoia rules! I'll see if I can come up with a cunning plan to avoid the use of staff numbers like asking questions that you need the portal to answer.

Schnowzer

Alphaprot and seamen
My my arent we touchy. This is a public forum and as such i'm entitled to read it.As are many non pilots. Your philanthropistic tendencies to warn your fellow aviators are commendable. The point is its a never ending repetitive whinge. I was offered an EK contract last year, didnt take it for all the reasons here. However It was all obvious to anyone in the three day trip that wasnt blinded by the quick command carrot.All smiles and no substance. Maybe some egos clouded common sense? If the cap fits!! If you are bitter about your choice fine but constantly rehashing it makes you all look like whinging gits.

I do live somewhere civilised after 17 years as an expat in the uncivilised world so i do know what i'm talking about.This time around I chose to keep my left seat, freedom of speech and a society with a little more depth to it.
As max said we work hard and only the blessed few still have the old perks. The difference is we dont keep whinging about the same problems (which exist) time after time.

If your abject dismissal of my opinions is indictative of the calibre of the people i nearly had to work with (which idoubt is the case) then thank **** i didnt join.

As for not choosing to drink with your managers even if you could, you are obviously of the "dont do work" brigade. Bit of a bad career choice then going to a captive expat company where work OWNS you, and your existance. In your mitigation the employment dynamic there makes them more your masters and in keeping with cultural preferences maybe u shouldnt drink with them. Now that WAS obvious at interview. My managers are not my mates but we are on first name terms as are all the flight crew and are approachable and usually fair.

If you continue to post on a public forum we are entitled to comment. Where you are and the restrictions you suffer are YOUR own fault.You pays yer money etc etc. It would appear you are the nieve ones and i do know what i'm talking about.

PS. let the facts speak. I'm in the UK paying tax and happy still making more than you. You are in the superb Dubai, skint, Knackered and bitter. At least the cabin crew get a gold rolex for taking it up the Batty.Says it all really. Now to reiterate have a word with yourselves .

Bart,
You have me a bit confused. First you come here and complain that we complain, then you write a post agreeing with all we say. I take it English is not your first language, so could you please do a quick recap and tell us exactly what you mean?
Perhaps it was those 17yrs you spent in deepest darkest Africa that has caused all this uncertainty. But be a good fellow and let us know exactly what you are trying to say. I see you work in the UK, good choice, as I here its quite easy to swap licences to a UK one...good for you. I might have to do the same thing myself...any tips?

Don

greetings don,

You are right english isnt my first language. swearing is. My grammar and punctuation are sh1te as well so dont start.

I do agree with the comments on this thread , its just getting a bit tiresome, was amusing. it just doesnt project a good image of the individuals, read pilots, that chose to go to the gulf. Everyone has problems but some of your colleagues have made bitchin an artform. As an exexpat, wannabes from the first world (mostly uk , some aus) usualy didnt last and werent suitable. Seems the recruitment process in that area isnt so hot. Expat life isnt easy whinging is.

Now as for the licence, its very easy to swap your icao licence if you have the necessary experience. Or you can do as i did which was 18 written exams, two flight tests and two girls on the course. Now thats alot more expensive and demoralising than a GCA rubber stamp,or three years of subsidising an EK f/o salary, but i (and we) dont keep going on about it. Since JAR we also get people walking in with dodgy histories,ratings and getting Jar licences, and yes DEc positions in my company. Dont see it aired in public tough. Half of my colleagues eat shark meat for gods sake.So why dont some of you colleagues look on the bright side. if they havent got a jar licence the time at emirates will help them bypass the requirements. There that wasnt difficult, a smile. Oh I forgot , the dec's are taking all the P1,buggers. If you are not being faecesous erm cant spell....****ty..pm me and i can point you in the right direction, re the swap thing.

The other option,as many of my friends took was go to emirates from africa, and get a validation on their validation of an african licence of dubious provenance.A much easier option that produces all the bells and whistles but a history that wouldnt stand up to a detailed check from a first world investigator should aproblem happen at say LGW. For me there was no contest. I wanted a respectable qualification after africa, not layers upon layers of validation which, if stripped back may reveal barely a congolese ppl for example. I dont make the rules though, just my own choices which refers me back to the end of my last post.

One other choice, or freedom if you will, amongst the many i now have in the uk is to read these forums to broaden my awareness of opinions from across the globe. I have more in common with you guys than you may think,which is why the whinging is becoming emabarassing to the profession.

very laudable, bol, to try to "broaden your awareness of opinions from across the globe". please just spare us yours, as long you keep that patronizing attitude.
thanks ttn

Interesting thread - creating all sorts of whinges from members but let's keep it going in the interest of getting to the bottom of this barrel.

Bring it on!

4HP

Something wrong if you cannot survive on a co pilots salary. Would imagine it's at least 2500 sterling per month. If it's that bad then get rid of the maid, buy a second hand jeep or have a real word with your wives and their spending habits. Reality check required, start living within your means and face up to the fact you do not make as much money as people may think. Get a grip guys.

Patroniing ....maybe ...and i aplolgise for that.

True...absolutely...I have seen the film and ate the pie.

As for being on this thread so much well, its a voluntary office day to help out. Payback....a good open relationship with my bosses and the day off i need to go on leave on the flight i want. Give and take really. Rain and tax i can handle.

Schnowzer, thanks for the comments, I have little doubt or paranoia that your system is not the way management would find out who was posting. I use my identity on both the EK forum and the public Middle East one, and have very few concerns about them finding out. Basically I still believe public forums serve many purposes a private one can't.

Bart, this post in particular has had nearly 3500 viewings, obviously some people are interested in reading it, you may find it repetitive and annoying, others obviously don't.

So to reiterate, if you don't want to read it p*** off.

Oh, God...
 

This Bart is just B O R I N G, for God sake!!!!
Get a life, man!...

well as you seem to insist on lowering the tone. youre the sad **** that are p1ssed off so why dont you lot p1ss off out of dubai and give it a rest. End of really.

Proof is in the pudding. this is a public forum , what part of that dont you understand. adopting some of your managers tolerances are you? You whinge, we comment ,otherwise ****** to a private forum.

Cool it Bart - considering the time & your demeanor, a certain amount of "brave juice" has fired your rhetoric and led to your use of gutter language. Take a yellow card. Hopefully when you wake up in the morning you'll find it within yourself to continue this debate in a slightly more civil manner. 4HP

Bart,you and your type would do very well here in the office.

For the rest of us,a once excellent job has deteroriated in front of very eyes in a quite extraordinary display of misreading the situation.

QB

It's probably no coincidence that Barts found a voice as Albatosser and his other pseudonyms have lost theirs...

Annoying though he is, he is also sadly persistant. It doesn't take long to recognise the same drivel after a few posts so its probably better not to bite if we can and stick to the threads.

You are all right, i shall not rub salt in the wounds of your errors or shallow company. Well maybe just the one more time.
Oh and Shake do you mean Thread ,singular, same old same old.
Have fun girls.

I hope this forum helps as surrogate counselling SOME of you need. I'm off to hyde park corner to slag off my boss and government , and then the pub, not the dole, or jail. Ah freedom its been hard earned over the years.TTFN

Bart,

You need to relax old chap.

Instead of Hyde Park corner, go to Regent's Park, sit on the lawn and watch a day's cricket on the big screen.

Might chill your mind out.

Emirates F/O Positoins!!!!!
 

Hi! guys,
I'm flying the 737 NG's for Jet Airways India and have got almost 1000 hrs on type with 2500 total time. Should I go for the F/O position at Emirates? People have joined Jet Airways on the 340's leaving Emirates so what you guys have to say about it. Please I don't want any openion war to start here but just professional advice. Thanks in advance...

Firstly check their requirements, I think you will find youre a tad short at present.

Secondly ask as many people as you can who work here at EK, get + and - and then make a decision.

Its not for everyone and certainly isnt the career it used to be.

Just my opinion.

Cheers

i do believe you are forgetting that jet airways india and emirates do have an agreement that no pilots will be called for an interview without a resignation as well as a letter of acceptance of their resignation from jet.Just thought you should know the type of unproffessionals that you work for take it from me ive been there done that and now doin much better.

laters

Looking for more Emirates info...
 

I have read what some people have posted on the forums and still do not have a great picture of life at Emirates.

I would appreciate any and all info relating to interview (I have read what is available on PPRUNE) particularly what technical questions are asked.

What I am most interested in is what is the life of an Emirates pilot like. Work schedule, junior pilot trip pairings, layover details, cockpit environment, relationship with management. Life in Dubai. Pictures of housing, opinions on schools, entertainment, time off. Vacations. Pension. Career growth. Any and everything! I would love to hear from Brits, Aussies, Americans and anyone else who could put a perspective on life vs. western airline jobs.

Thanks,

HH60

IF AS YOU SAY YOU HAVE READ PREVIOUS POSTS RE EK, THEN YOU MUST KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE , S##T. ALL OF IT IS TRUE, SO MY ONLY HINT WOULD BE STAY WHERE YOU ARE.: