g4,

Shake's post is in my opinion honest and correct - if I may, here are few more points to think about.

THE CALLING: You seem surprised to be getting the call with RJ time. I mean no disrespect in the following comment, but the reason YOU are being invited to an interview is simply that EK are VERY short on pilots and no longer in a position to attract guys with "heavy" time only. Crew scheduling is literally taking guys off tomorrows flights to crew todays!

UPGRADES: When the whole DEC saga started, EK offered DEC's a starting salary which was higher than a year 1 Captain, ie higher than an FO who had just upgraded. This, we were told, was to attract the experienced heavy time guys out there to Emirates and to maintain the standard. The truth is that with the rising cost of living in Dubai, applications on a ****y year 1 Capt salary were very, VERY low, so to attract suitable candidates and the package had to be improved. To pay a brand new DEC more than an existing Captain was to say the least a slap in the face and a demeaning gesture not taken lightly by the Captain body. Those DEC's that came took advantage of an opportunity that was presented to them and I'm sure any of us would have done the same. In the same way that you are being called from a RJ position, EK have started employing narrow body (B737 etc) guys as DEC's. The "heavy time" guys have come, seen that the golden apple was actually rotten inside and told their mates!

Some time ago the company formed a "policy" (good EK word meaning nothing) that no transition upgrades would take place. It cost them too much money. If you were a Boeing FO, you would stay a Boeing FO until a Capt slot became available on a Boeing. In the mean time Airbus FO's your junior would get commands ahead of you effectively loosing YOU money. But that's OK, it was cost neutral to the company. Transition upgrades have been re-introduced (Wonder why? It's our policy that we can change the policy). So who knows how long the average time to upgrade will be? My feeling is that with the A380 coming things should pick up.

ACCOMMODATION: Probably the WORST department in the company that will do everything that is illogical in an effort to make people unhappy. To add to Shake's post, FO's with kids get a villa too.

CAN YOU LIVE ON A FO SALARY: Yes, but I wouldn't be dining out too many times a week.

TRAINING:No, not like Cathay. A few rocket scientists out there who feel they need to re-invent the wheel to be noticed, but the majority of guys are down to earth and there to help.

HOW TO GET TO DUBAI: Fly Emirates of course. Take the opportunity to talk to the cabin crew and get a feeling of how they see you - the pilot. Again some good ones, but also some very young kids in the back of our planes with very big ego's. Courtesy and respect can be lacking, especially from males from certain parts of the world which border the Mediterranean. Teamwork is something that is discussed at length in the classroom and endured on the plane. Team spirit is virtually non-existent.

Good luck with you decision.
:ok:

It is very important that you bring your wife with you for the interview. If she gets here and decides she hates Dubai you will be very miserable and commuting from America is not an option. While you are being assessed she will have a chance to look around the supermarkets/shops etc to get a feel for the cost of living and you will both be able to decide if you can live on an F/Os salary for the 7 or so years an upgrade will take. (It can be done but it won't be an extravagant lifestyle.) There is a good website called www.grapeshisha.com which has some excellent and accurate spreadsheets about the cost of living in Dubai.

If she want to work get her to have a look in the appointment section of the Gulf News so she can check out what she might earn.

Have a look at the Properties/Freehold section in the same paper so if you end up hating the company villa/apartment (I didn't like it and moved out within about 6 months- that can be a saga in itself) you can see how far the utilities allowance (as it is called) will go. The answer will be not very, but for me it was a quality of life issue.

Finally, by the middle of next month we will all know about this year's profit share and payrise. That should help you to make a decision.

Shake & Warlock are pretty well spot on.
Talk to as many pilots as you can in private, when you come here. There is a simple equation of happiness (and yes it is a generalisation).
The longer you have been here = The unhappier you are
This is simply because the newer guys have not been shafted as often and are still in the honeymoon period.

Study Marerial
 

Hi iflyg4...
Here is where you may be able to get those books
AVIATION WORLD Toronto Canada
1.800.668.1987
416.674.5959
www.aviationworld.net

[email protected]

Emirates Interview is Good Also I would recommend
Ace The Technical Pilot Interview

All the best in your decesion.

Some more links to keep you informed
 

Good Info from all above heres a few more links Shake told it much as it is
BigGeordies link is nearly correct here's the correct version http://www.grapeshisha.com
If your after a map to locate the many Real Estate projects and where EK may send you this is not too bad however it is a MB PDF file and needs some updating. The company will mention the Silicon Oasis there is a thread on the board here

The local newspapers give you a good feel for whats happening here in Dubai all though you will need to read between the lines as despite the "official" line there is Government Censorship practiced at all levels. The 7 days paper is the closest you will find to scratching below the surface.

Read the letters to the editor section in the 7 Days
Another Government paper is The Emirates Today which you can also pick up free along with another freebie the 7Days which is good to read along with your Star bucks

You will find that Emirates will change the "Goal Posts" in regard to your terms and conditions many posts on this web board will enlighten you and unfortunately having something in black and white on a piece of paper is no guarantee either.

Good luck in your decision making process.

Don't be surprised if it takes a while to co-ordinate a response.

Iflyg4,

If your making "decent money" and living in the states, why do you want to come to the sand pit? The attraction of flying heavy jets isoon wears off.

Only come if you think your lifestyle or career is going to improve. If the cash is pretty much the same in terms of disposable income and you live in a nice part of the states call me, I'll swap with you now.

Iflyg4: In case you were wondering about the picture in uplock's post, that's the new standard seating arrangement at crew scheduling!They are now so busy trying to find pilots to fly the jets, that time off to attend to physiological needs is not allowed. The piece at the back has been converted to a lunch box, as the same rule applies to visits to the canteen! It was another "cost neural" idea that earned C.P. the "Bright idea of the month" award.:}

SM.

I tend to agree with Cerberus.

There are many pro's and con's of life here in Dubai. You will no doubt be able to find both sides with the links provided by the gents here. If you truly do have a content lifestyle where you are, but are in search of the "Big Iron", unless you are running away from something there, within a short period (this definition depends on the individual) you may well have asked yourself "why was it we came again?"


The aircraft are nice, the routes are interesting, and generally the guys you fly with are a great bunch, but it's not home and will never be. With only a wife, you will be able to live a reasonable lifestyle as long as you have enough already soaked away for retirement. With young children in the American school system here forget it, but then again unless they get into aviation they will be able to support you in later years.
Accomodation, as already mentioned, is a crap shoot. Remember the attitude of Accomodation Dep't (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one:) !)"if you don't like where you are, take the allowance" but again dip deeply into your own pocket to come up with something better. They do not routinely entertain moves here. Only HR can force that one, and that seems rare. The exception to this is Silicon Oasis recently but again trade offs.


Once you leave the States you will forever live a nomadic life as to return there will undoubtedly be at the bottom of a seniority list in the right seat. My family and I would unquestionably prefer to be back home even earning less cash and flying smaller equipment, so long as I was treated well and had confidence in management.


Best of luck to you Iflyg4 and all those others reading this for insight.

For you and your Wife...
 

Hi, for my two dirhams worth, PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR EYES OPEN WHEN YOU COME HERE FOR A VISIT! Don't look at the place through "rose coloured glasses" as a lot of people do. The comments below come from a post on the Expatwoman website and although it was written some time ago and for someone coming from Austrailia I think it is worth reading for you in your situation.

Cheers


Living in Dubai all depends on what perspective you look at it from.

I have lived and worked in the UK, Europe, Austrailia (Sydney and Melbourne) and New Zealand, so I feel that I can comment with a degree of balance and common sense.

I can honestly say that Dubai does NOT do it for me! Four years ago it was a very different place. The city of Duabi now, is a concrete jungle construction site that is out of control. The traffic is horrendous to the point of making inner city London traffic good, and the standard of driving is enough to make you cringe. However the municipality are working on the roading and are trying to increase the number of roads to ease congestion (like building a 6 lane highway right through a supposedly higher income community!) The rulers have actively moved in to slow construction as it my guess that they have at long last grasped the idea that the infrastructure can not handle any more load placed on it. (the cancellation of the majority of the Dubai-Land projects is a case in point)

Once the "bright Light Big City" novelty value of Dubai wears off, most people find that there is not a lot to do here unless you want to be paying out all of the time. Sure there are country clubs, beach clubs, very good restaurants and the shopping is fantastic to say the least, but all of these are a continual drain on the purse/wallet. For the majority of expats that come here, they do so to save money to put towards a better future for when they head home, unfortunately Dubai is completely geared up to take all of your hard earned cash from you, in fact that is the only reason the place exists! The place is completely artificial and has no soul. There are a few places of natural beauty ie the beaches and the mountains are worth a visit or two but that is about it, and the desert is ok if you like sand! As an antipodean it really goes against the grain to have to pay to go the beach!

Today has been a nice day in Dubai. It rained this morning (the first time in months) and for once we had a really blue sky instead of a hazy murk. The temperatures at this time of year are quite pleasent and from a British expats point of view I can understand fully the lure of sunshine everyday, however summer is approaching rapidly and with that brings temps of 40-50 deg C every day, no outside living for the summer months unless you want to be a dripping mess in five minutes! (it never officially gets above 50deg here as to do so would mean sending the Sub continental labourers home from the construction sites)

Dubai is currently tax free...yes well..they get it in other ways, you will be devastated when you get your phone bill if you have been calling internationally...the local telecoms company is owned locally and charges amongst the highest call rates in the world! So you think "OK I will use the internet phones etc" but they block the majority of those (depending on where you live) so they have the monopoly - and milk it for all they can!
VAT (Value Added Tax) is on the way as well and as for assurances that it will not increase prices etc here...come on guys!

Having been here while - too long most likely I can hear some people saying - it makes me laugh to recently read in the papers about people ( mainly new expats) about how they have no rights here and that they would appeal this and argue that at court back at home....well GET REAL PEOPLE....you have NO RIGHTS here. You are Expats, always will be and that is that. Live with it! If there is a problem between an expat and an National, whether it be driving, business, rental or the like, it will more than likely not go in favour of the expat! That is just part of living in the Middle East.

If you are looking to come here, I hope you (or the bread winner)like to work long hours for your monthly pay packet. The majority of people here that I know rarely work a "standard" week as per their contact and there is always pressure to do more for less, I know full well that is the way of the world but it seems that greed is a little more prevalent here. Figures of 30k dirhams have been floating around, that is quite good money if that is over and above housing, schooling, power and water etc, if not you will struggle to save. It has got expensive here recently.

A statement made to me recently sums it up beautifully, "as an expat in Dubai, you are really nothing more than a second class citizen, living in a very nice third world city"

If you are coming here from the Antipodes think very carefully and PLEASE DON'T sell everything up at home thinking a shift here will long term...the average length of stay here for an expat is 18 months, I didn't believe this when first told it but over the time we have been here it has worked out about true. It is very difficult for the grass to be greener here when you consider that is the middle of the desert! This place is just not home, it never will be and the little annoyances gradually build up. Do a search on this site concerning: quality of service, getting things fixed, school waiting lists, traffic, litter, smelly cab drivers, smoking in shopping malls, blocking of internet, quality of medical care, etc etc the list just goes on...

With trouble definately brewing again in the area, are you sure you want to make the move? Just make sure that your eyes are wide open!

We have decided to move on. The money bucket is not full yet, but the other bucket that you get when you arrive here is full to overflowing....

I hope that this will be of some use to you.

Rachael

The above is the most honest and accurate opinion of life in Dubai that I have read in a very, very long time. Well done 'Rachael' and good luck!

Help for Emirates Interview 2006 Please`
 

Hello:D
Can anyone help with Emirates Interviews Information. :confused: Due in late May .Hoping to find anyone to share any Info regarding the interview process .I have had a great deal of trouble downloading anything that cant be handled by adobe /word.
Any help greatfully accepted :ok: Can send to [email protected] if you dont wish to post .

EK psychometric test..AKA the Kiwi, Muttley, Tail Rota chat thread
 

Hi Guys,

I just received the call and I have an interview with Emirates next week for DEC position, I need to know all about the psychometric test and what should I expect in the SIM checkride?

Thank you.

send a mail to cpt. murray he knows everything about it, he will help you for sure.

Don't worry about any of it, they want you so bad, you can be a psychotic inept nut-case and yo will get a job. Actually scrub that, if you are all of the above, you will get a direct entry management job

Thanks for your answers but they are not that desperate because the hiring rate is 1 out of 10 just 10 Percent

Super md,
As in all psycho tests just be as honest as you can. If you try and fudge the tests they will catch you out.
The merits of them are debateable but there you go - their trainset etc............
Good luck but you will find DEC's are rather unpopular at EK at the moment as guys who are eligible for command are being shafted by the company. So their feelings are understandable
Cya

Desperate? YES....but not to crash an aircraft. Hours may drop, but I doubt standards will.

superMD11 i don't think you will get much help from the guys in your quest for info. Why do you think it is ok to jump ahead of F/O's already more than qualified for the job? the lack of a union and labour laws here mean that you can however i can assure you that DEC's are not needed in EK it is just the managments way of trying to save money.
Please don't join as a DEC as i have said before you are no better than a SCAB ( we can't have unions so therefore no picket line to cross but i am sure you get the idea)
Regards
TH

Hi Toad Hall,

Were you passing through Christchurch Arrivals a few days back, I saw this EK F/O walk by with his shoulders slouched, dragging his feet in a uniform two sizes too big. Looked real pissed off with life. After reading your message I just wondered if it was you.

I believe the thread was started to just make you unhappy(er).

Kiwi you are right i am pissed off along with all the other f/o's however i have served my time here and am doing my upgrade that still does not mean i will be quiet on the DEC issue. The post may be there to wind people up however the people applying as DEC's need to know the feeling of the guys in EK and PPRUNE is the only way to get the message out.
p.s the EK uniform is cheap and nasty with the tailors being from the sub continent where it is normal to wear clothes two sizes too big!! as you noticed on the f/o in chc!!

Hi Toad Hall,

I can understand regarding quality of uniforms.

Sounds as though you are staying on at Emirates. I guess it can't be that bad. An earlier post by you, 26th Jan, said you hoped to be gone by June. Or were you just having a particularly bad day on the 26th of Jan.

Sorry to reply, but it does amuse me when a grown man soon to be a respected Captain spits his dummy out of the cot.

All the best for your command training.

Regards,

Kiwi.

Kiwi,
1 I am staying for my benefit 12 more months in the pit i can just about cope with.
2 As a captain with emirates i will never be a "respected captain" pilots are not treated with respect( except captain murray who is treated like a VP)
3 Thank you for the best wishes for the command training i have over 2000 hours airbus command before emirates and quite rightly i have to do the full command course, however a DEC with only 737 time does not have to jump through the same hoops.
4 If you ever make it into emirates( being from nz looking on the middle east forum i assume you are looking) you will see why grown men spit their dummys.
TH

beats me why most of the EK crew sound so grumpy in all their threads, though i shouldnt comment coz i dont WORK in the industry at all. But life could have been a lot easier if they stop winging for once....

ANYWAY, my question is, what happens to all the cadets who graduate out of FTA Adelaide? What positions do they hold upon graduation? I am sorry but I havent bothered asking them about it so would like to know.

Richie

Cadet Pilot at the start of their Cadet Transition Course!

AAH ;)

richie

I know I should just leave this alone.
 

Hi Toad Hall,

Thank you for your reply. By reading your last post I can understand why you're an fustrated individual. So once you receive your command and leave in twelve months time will you start another career as a F/O, like you did at Emirates? or be a DEC somewhere.

Regarding my future. No, at this stage I'm not interested in Emirates but I do admire very much your aircraft, I'm quite happy in New Zealand flying only a 737. Another possible reason for not taking an interest is spending 13-14 hours in a confined space with you, it would be enough to contemplate committing a Hari Kari in the lavatory.

Regards,

Kiwi.

Way off topic guys. Toad & Kiwi please continue your joust by PM or email & let's try & get this thread back on topic.

4HP

Kiwi r4

I have read your little wind up.......Sorry mate but you sound like a complete pratt. :eek: dont be such a dick and stay where you are.....you obviousley dont have what it takes to work up here and your attitude towards those that do, is nothing short of contempt........:E Your little B737ng based out of christchurch is a retirement job for old men with no futures.....trust me I know.

Dont comment on something you know nothing about.....such as EK working condititions.....you dont know anything about working ,living, or playing in Dubai. Come up if you have the balls otherwise stop dreaming about it.:{

TR:ok:

PS.... leave the Toad alone.....we all have our reasons for staying or going.

sorry 4HP but had to be said

TR:ok:

Please don't tell me you two are flatmates.

Alot happier than you by all accounts TR:ok:

Apologies 4HP.

kiwi r4

I would love to fly with you:E .........we would have you for breakie....that is if you lasted the psychometric test and selection process.....oh, and dont forget the training....very high failure rate with DEC's at the moment........either too old, too lazy, or just stupid:ugh:

my guess is if the psyc test doesnt ....the later will get you in the end.

Goodnight Kiwi

TR:ok:

There is obviously no basic english test either.

Goodnight Tail Rota.

Wasnt my bestest subject...too much reading.....!

TR:ok:

Anyway, back to the psycho's who run the psycho dept. Small minded third world people who have obtained some sort of "qualification" which is not recognised anywhere else in the world (actually that sounds a bit like the GCAA licence I have) getting their rocks off by humiliating and threatning first world well educated professional people. The amount of careers I have seen delayed or ruined over the years by these vindictive little third world turds is criminal. Yeah, come on up to EK. What a wonderful outfit !!:yuk:

Yeah Rat I know what you mean...they told me I was too aggresive...so I spent 20mins arguing .........telling they were wrong. :}

Still got in though. ........mmmmmmm.......maybe I was out psyched by the Psych:*

TR:ok:

Supermd11. Good Luck!
 

Like 4HP said "we're way off track".

In twenty four hours I've met;

1, A soon to be captain who thinks SOME of his fellow colleagues as SCAB. But, wants to be one in twelve months.

2, A young guy, as it appears, with a much younger mental age who wants to eat me for breakfast.

Supermd11, I believe you will have no problems during the "Psychmetric Test". Go with confidence. In fact, I question if the test actually works.

I best go before the whole compound come out for a chat.

Regards,

Kiwi.

Oh my, another one!
 

Hi Muttley Crew,

You must occupy the third bedroom. Must be a villa I’ve heard so much about.

Look, Muttley Crew, I have no idea how long it took for you to think of a reply to my post but what an absolute pathetic effort. You seem to strive for intellectual wit and use words like “Euphemysm”, I strongly suggest you spend an extra minute with the Dictionary and check your spelling before posting. It makes the impact just so much better!

Give me your address and I’ll gladly post a game of “Scrabble” for you three boys to play with in the evenings. That might help! In fact forget that, I’ll call HR tomorrow and get a contact for Toad Hall. He has kindly supplied so much information about himself he has only refrained from giving out his telephone number.

Are there anymore ineptitudes who share your villa?

Goodnight I’m off to bed.

4 Holer i think it is about time kiwi the cabin boy is removed from the ME forum but feel free to allow him to post in the cabin crew forum i am sure he will find all the info on joining EK he needs there!!
regards
TH

Why remove him? Kiwi has some valid points. But you guys still owe him an answer. Do you change career after EK to start as a F/O again or as a DEC (and blocking the F/o's there)?
And no, I am not a DEC, just waiting for my turn for an upgrade. As long as the offer is out there I have full understanding for every CMD who joins EK as a DEC. No need to call them SCABS. If the offer should be out there..... other topic. But we might find a consense there.:ok:

Muttley
100% agree on this Brian Somehow clown! But still no need to jump on anybody here in this forum who asks Q's to make up his mind (This is not pointed at you but in general).
And thanks for your honesty about the move:ok: