Beware of making a career decision based on ANYTHING you read on Pprune. My opinions of life at Emirates are approximately 180 degrees different from Pintofstella's. That doesn't mean he's not being honest, but rather he's simply expressing his opinion from his unique perspective. No one can make that judgement for you. And the only ablsolute, surefire way to do that is to come here and see it for yourself.

Good luck!

The Yardman

P.S. I'm just a lowly F/O with no aspirations whatsoever of going into management.

Straight facts:

17-20 days working a month

A lot of flights (espically in the bottom bid groups) work at least 1 leg in the middle of the night.

Some flights or pairings work both legs in the middle of the night.

No credit for pay other than time spent on the airplane. There is one exception; if you do sim support you get 2 1/2 pay I believe. So having said that no pay for vacation.
No pay for sick time.
No pay for recurrent training.

Mangement that tells you are lucky to have a job.


Unless you are at one of those British charter companies stay where you are. Like the message before this said you must have read the previous posts. Yardman is probably from the aforementioned British charters and is happier than a 16 yr old in a whorehouse with a fist full of pounds. It must be said that he does not have a heathly sense of reality.
Say what you want about the content on pprune but there are very few lies told on this board.

I am one of the many who have left EK in the last year and I have to say I don't regret leaving at all.

I feel about fifteen years younger, my health has improved and I am now beginning to see how much of my home life I couldn't take part in due to fatigue.

As many before have said you need to be absolutely sure EK is for you as it will cost you a lot of money to set up in Dubai and, if you decide it's not for you, it's very difficult to extricate yourself (and family).

If I'd known what lay behind the gloss and PR machine, prior to signing on the line, there is no way I would ever have gone out to Dubai.

Pint of Stella may have been a bit emotional, but taking everything at face value, life here is pretty cr@p so in that respect I guess he is right.

I am far too busy for the money paid to me, I do not get enough remuneration for the constant upheaval to family life. No stability in where I live, I am constantly worried about whether my villa complex will be the next one to raise its rents and then Emirates to say to me leave for another villa (at my own expense!) or pay the difference. I get fed up with my managers telling us if you don't like it here then leave. I get no encouragement or thanks for a job well done, but I called into the office when things go wrong, even when I have been in the right. There's lots and lots of things that could be mentioned but what the person before said is true, that there are very few lies on here.

Despite only a few people saying things here, remember also that there are a huge number of pilots here who are unhappy, but very afraid to say something here because they fear that they could be traced. The ones that are happy, are not here for very long before they see that Dubai is just like any other false city like Las Vegas or somewhere like that.

The pilots are changing here, not many from the western world are joining and thats fine, but I really enjoyed flying with mates who share a common sense of humour and enjoy a few bevs after the duty.

Just like every one I talk to, I wish I knew what I was letting myself in for before I signed. My advice for what it is worth? Get a half decent job in your home country, working as an expat just is not what it is cracked up to be. The big money jobs and the great lifestyle are well gone. And they were the only reason any body became an expatriate.

It comes down to the two buckets story, the one where on arrival you get issued two buckets. One for money, the other for sh1t. When one is full, you leave. But I know no one who has left in the last two years with his bucket full of cash.

Good luck in your decision, but remember that the Emirates PR machine is a powerful force. If something looks too good to be true, it probably is.

Well LHR rain, you join a long haul airline that flies all over the world, based at an airport that doesn't have a curfew - what do you expect you dim ****??? Day flights only?? God, idiots like you should have tried researching the company before you signed on the dotted line old bean:confused:

Oh yeah, I didn't come from a british charter company, nor am I a 16 yr old virgin in a whorehouse - nor, shall I add, am I loooking for a management position etc etc etc........................

Not to say there aren't big problems in a few areas, but the way things are going with the market drying up - anyones guess;)

WK, for a lovely bloke, you can be such a tw@t...

Man, you must have a picture of life in dxb if you read ALL the posts.

Yesterdays' 7 days news paper have some stats:
Every 15 hours a person dies on dxb roads.
There are only 1.2-1.5 mil living here. (2 different sources)
You work out the odds ........ scary.

You will save jack s##t on FO salary.
As line capt. minimal saving.
Do not look at tax free salary copared to your home country.
This place is seriously expencive.

One guy says 16-20 duty days per month.
My personal roster has 84 OFF DAYS since January, TOTAL!!!
You will work man, work like a dog.

You will be intimidated by a management that rules with FEAR.
You step out of line, they could punish you with loss of pay rise for a year. If you plan to stay 20 odd years, that could add up to roughly 250000Dhs (+/- 70000 $ US) for flying 25 knots fast on final, or a similar offence.

Good luck with your important decision.
See you at the Singapore interview.

White Knight might not be any of the above metioned categories but he is probably on drugs. Why when someone (like myself) states the facts he is jumped upon by the delusional part of the EK wing?
You are right WK about something you said in your post. With the overseas markets OPENING up it won't be long for most of us to escape.
Please don't tell me or anyone else if I don't like it to leave. That is the style of middle eastern mangement but it just does not fly in the real world.

Some of us are happy, but then it's all relative isn't it ?

I come from a country where the career prospects are horrible and an airline that has halved it's fleet in 4 years, where I'd taken a 50% pay cut and lost a $600,000 pension. Where I'd be lucky to see captain in another 13 years, if ever.

EK isn't perfect, but it's damn sight better than my alternatives.

WK's glass is half full and so is mine, obviously yours isn't.


TP

P.S. Including leave, 168 days off so far this year. Your mileage may vary. :ok:

Do you want to be exploited?
 

Then you should come here.
We are asked to fill in ASR's when something has gone wrong on a flight so that others can learn from it. Ask our North American DEC who had a take-off incident ( ...and it wasn't an incident actually as he passed the fence at 50 feet) what he thinks of our safety reporting system. He is still suspended after at least two months, unlike his local F/O who clearly was a part of the problem.
Typhoonpilot talks about losing 50% of his salary, well we have lost a lot more than that in terms of disposable income reduced by inflation. Also, how can you compare a sick North American Airline that loses heaps of money with Emirates that is making money head over heels? The sad thing is that EK makes money on the back of their employees.

26 hours layover in JFK after a 14 hour nightflight direct from Dubai, then the quick return sector @ 12hrs50 also through the night. Optimum fatigue management we have been told by our ex BA boss. Does BA operate this way? No way in heaven they do!!!

I have not had more than 8 days off per month this year (except september when I had 9, but that's a legality).

10-15 hours of over time rostered every month. Not voluntary overtime.

I would not listen too much to anyone who has been here less than 4 years. The honeymoon is quite long. And the first years lead up to a command on a shiny new jet, and that tends to scramble one's view quite badly.


Friends of mine that have lived in their villas for 7 years have been given 10 days to move out. How do you think the families feel? What do you say to your kids?

But then again, if we do not like it we can leave. In this culture it is not suitable to try and improve anything by making suggestions.

See you at the SQ interview!

PAB

:ok:

Porknbrew Too true. But you will find the 777 DEC has been re-instated. He made a formal appeal as per the company procs, and it went all the way to the top.
How long he wants to stay and what he thinks of the "culture" is anyones guess.

I think many of our Norte Americano friends have a skewed view of things here (not all). Their majors are in such a bad mess its skews their view of the job market. EK MAKES stacks of cash, fact!

EGGW.

EK
 

hh60drvr,

I guess you should be asking yourself if taking a job with EK is a step forward.......

If you are coming from Pakistan Airline, Bangladesh airlines, Yemem Airlines....etc.... it is definetly a step foward, if you are in Europe working for BA, Virgin, Easyjet and even Ryanair it might not be a good idea to leave your job!!!!!!

Good luck!:p

Please don't compare US Air to EK. US Air was very extended for a long time and a little out of their league. EK has slave labour with very little fuel costs. Typhoon you might still be happy but you are essentially a DEC (who probably deserved it by the way) that did not have to live on a FO salary for long and in your mind you are still comparing what US Air has now (nothing) to what EK has now (a lot). AA, BA, CX are still very far out in front of us. Your mileage might very well indeed vary.

@ 74WORLD.....
After reading all of ur guys posts I dont think so leaving Pakistan International Airline and joining Emirates Will be a FWD Step.PIA do take goood Care of its Pilots and big majority of them are satisfied from their Jobs and i m one of them ;)....

PIA
 

Ram777,

I'm happy for you then.......stay where you are, at least you are living in your own country.....:ok:

LHR rain - never used anything that's illegal old chap;) Apologies if you think I jumped down your throat, but I do think there are two sides to every story!!!
A lot of things at EK are not what they seem, we'll see soon as I think the proverbial's going to hit the fan..............................:rolleyes:

RAM77,
You really reckon it is not a step forward.
I have so far seen EX SAA,BA,CX,SQ,Air Canada, United, Delta, Alitalia and the list goes on as a step forward for them. Now don't tell me that you guys enjoy a better reputation than the few names above.LOL.
Anyone making a career decision on the basis of what we write here is a real winner(Sarcasm). Aviation will never be a bed of roses again ( Remember Economics 101), and there is no grass in Middle-east. So no comparison to any part of the world. If all the folks were really that disgruntled than I would see a mass exodus. If this is a trick to distract guys from coming here than it may not work as Qatar would be on top of the exit list. They are still getting pilots from our part of the world and in truck loads. And for many of them Ek was the first choice.
Anyways I may have stepped on the wrong note here.
Later
A757 :ok:

WK -

You said:

"...we'll see soon as I think the proverbial's going to hit the fan"

Why do you say that ??

@AVIATOR777....
Well It depends upon person to person,I m 21 flying for my national airline n i believe that there could be nothing better then that for me,It all depends upon whether one is satisfied wid his job or not,N i beleve its nothing better to live in ur own country...Leaving BA,United,CX,SAA,AC,Delta for Emirates is definately a backward step,No Doubt abt that

EH -- Just seems to me that we're already short of pilots, now with extra routes and extra aeroplanes:confused: Crewing are already struggling to keep things moving, it's going to get worse..

RAM777,
Hopefully next time you write you will have that baby soother out of your face. No one takes a step back unless he is an idiot.
Cheers
A757

Hey rammy

Come back in 10 years.
Now go away pip squeek.

LHR Rain:

I have to compare USAir to EK because that is my basis for comparison. The point is that everyobdy thinking of coming to EK has a different reality, a different basis for comparison. Were I still at USAir I would be a junior narrow body F.O. on perpetual reserve with no more than 11 days off per month. For that I would get paid $75,000 per year before taxes. So for me, EK is better, and it would still have been better had I needed to wait the full three years to command.

TP

mr White Knight, please pm me to get some news you may be interested in

Comparing US Air with EK is like comparing BA with the British Charter companies. Yes both airlines fly airplanes but for vastly different pay rates and conditions. As has been described in previous posts about the conditions at US Air I can't believe that all of the pilot group at US Air is not here at EK. As you said they would get a huge pay rise and their quality of life would improve. But since you have probably over 2000 pilots on redundancy and only 15 or so US Air pilots here at EK I think that your thinking is a little bit flawed, at least the thinking of how great EK is. Your mileage may vary.

OK I figure things aren't as rosey there as EK wants me to believe. I know somebody who wants to leave. Yet I have an interview soon. Yes--a recent bankrupcy filing if you ask why.
Question though: How strick are they about resigning seniority??
Anyone??

A few ostriches in management that need to get their head out of the sand me thinks.

"We are not short of pilots, only 2 are leaving per month and we have 25 applications per day!" the crystalised view of the head of Flt Ops.

His boss writes a letter to thank us for our hard work. Meanwhile the fleet manager tells us to watch this space because India has open skies for a while and Bus pilots are asked to give leave back. The blocking window for Nov bidding was set between 85 and 95 or 15-28% of overtime.

Now the only reason I know that a company would be forced to fly their pilots 15-28% into overtime, even before contingencies, is because they have screwed up the manpower planning. It will get worse with 4 jets a month pitching up unless steps are taken now to get ahead of the drag curve. Planes don't fly if they don't have enuough bernoullis on the wings or pilots in the cockpit.

Hey ostriches, get your heads out of the sand and take steps to fix the wheel before it breaks!!! Pilots are no longer falling over themselves to come to EK, you have to take steps to attract them. EK and the management all the way up to the top will look pretty stupid if they have a fleet of 170 aircraft in 2010 with pilots to fly 100!

Cerberus

Good point Cerburus
 

I am glad to read the messages and facts like CERBERUS writes. I read too much of **** too in these pages, but that's normal! Let's face the fact that human is a kind of animal who will never stop to complain. There will always be something to complain. EK case is the management..yes, there is for sure mistakes made and...and...and..

Have you guys been reading the story of Sun Express on these pages...and many more similar cases. You see, **** happens everywhere. It's awful to read...accidents waiting around the corner-type of messages from other pilots due to...reason...reason and so on. I hope, and I am sure the management are aware of things like Cerberus writes, and hopefully thay will do something about it. Before it's too late.

Thanks C

LHR Rain;

Most US pilots won't come to Emirates for a varity of reasons. After all we have somewhere around 12,000 pilots on the street with more to come from Northwest and Delta and very few pilots that go overseas to work as pilots. The main reason is if pilots can find work in the states they are better off staying there financially. Others that can't find work as pilots start a second career doing something they like or that is rewarding to them and wait for their recall notices.
When I came over to Emirates because I was furloughed most pilots I talked to said two common themes. Why are you going to work over there? Meaning Saudia Arabia. The second one was "that sounds like a good gig but there is no way my wife would let me move my family over there." Others to a varying degree said it would be a pay cut for them and most of those pilots were and are right.
So Rain that in a nutshell is the reason not that many US Airways or US pilots are here. Typhoon and A330 MAN could answer that question better though.

Shit happens?
 

Jarops - '**** happens everywhere' - why does it have to?

'I hope, and I am sure the management are aware of things like Cerberus writes, and hopefully thay will do something about it. Before it's too late.'
- sorry but they seem not to be aware of what is happening (or pretend not to know) and hence they cannot do anything about it!!

I would like to think that most people that write here do so because they are just frustrated with the mis-management that has lead to the situation of EK have minimal morale. EK used to be a good prospect but now it is fundamentaly lacking management from credible leaders. Hence everything is going downhill.

All of us out here came for one reason or another and if Ek had lived up to what it SAID it was when we initially joined I think we would be a lot happier than we are now. This could be a great job - but it will never be if management have anything to do with it!!!!

I personally think the main problem is TRUST - we don't trust EK managment I iota. You have to earn trust - not beat it into people!!!

Plenty of blank spaces on Dec B777 joining courses for December.

When I joined,every space had a name and months ahead of your preferred joining date.

Times change,I guess an unbelievably different situation from when I came.

QB:cool:

QB,

Don't you worry mate. Those spaces will be filled in by the 3rd world. The call has gone out and they are responding very nicely indeed. Just look at the recent courses and how they are filled.

On a separate note, word on the street is that transition upgrades will be allowed in the weeks ahead. All that is needed is the GCAA's signature on the FCI. This should help fill the courses as well especially from Europe.

EK does not care who is filling the courses just as long as they are filled.

That is a new low, even for you LHR. :yuk: Who cares what color the skin of the pilots is ? Of the pilots at EK from the USA, I personally know 7 who are not white, does that make them less skilled or less desirable employees ?

Don't judge people by the color of their skin. :mad:


TP

I have to agree with Typhoonpilot, LHR is way out of line. Flown with the best & the worst of crew and race has nothing to do with it. Shamefull post

If you are considering a move to Dubai try this website for local news.

http://www.7days.ae/

For cost of living discussion try this article

http://www.7days.ae/special-reports/the-b-b-drain.html


I\'ve seen huge changes recently. Like most of us posting here.

Yep in the good old days EK recruitment policy was like a dash of black pepper on a cream of white mushroom soup. That too for the taste alone. Obviously it wont taste too good with lots of pepper NOW. :8
The mushrrom now feel we have been kept in the dark and fed Bu-- sh--.:E

Thanks for the support SS. Way to many people are sensitive on this site and we still have the right to express ourselves anyway we deem fit with some possible exceptions.

In the last few months EK has already recruited the "D" team. The standards are down and so is everyone else. When are the higher ups going to figure this out? Just look at the recent classes going through the training college. Dark clouds on the horizon indeed!

LHR

What a snobby bast*** you are. How dare you judging people by seeing them at the college. What makes you think you are so superior?

I wonder how can one judge the standards of the new joiners just by coming across them at theTrg School.?

What is the criteria

1) Their accents
2) The colour of their skin
3) the Licence held
4) the grades achieved
5) or just talk around the "barbie"( welll perhaps a bit of digs here guys or shall I use the "pub" or yacht club or the Khaima))

There was a time at BOAC that there were no Scots or Welsh or Irish on the Flight deck.For the same reason ( plain racisim) that seems to be creeping up into this forum. For those detractors on the forum, you will be happy to note that BOAC and now BA are quite happily flying with "multi-lingual " crew all over the world.
Wake up guys this is the 21st century even BOAC now BA has woken up to the simple truths and had an Ozzie and now an Irish at the helm of affairs

I have always admired Emirates multi national work force as a model for others to follow . The harmony and the camradarie between nationalities is second to none and underscores the importance of having an open and transparent induction policy without compromising its standards;

BM

LHR Rain what is your problem. If you dont like it go back to your country as a bush pilot.

We dont neet incompetent idio.. like you here in EK.

So do us a favour and resign.