Waiting in the pool while getting tanned
 

Hi! Im same situation as you, but I'm not 777 rated but 747 rated.. Still waiting on the pool and my good news were in August like you

Up to date terms and conditions
 

I've spent a while trying to work my way through 300 pages of posts to try and find the terms and conditions for a wide bodied DEC including current pay scales. Could someone be so kind as to point me in the right direction?

Many thanks

widebody Dec....
basic pay...31,000 QR
transport allowance 1500 / month
utility 300/month
telephone 400/ month
housing.. 12000/ month
school max out 105000 per year for 3 children

flight pay for captains was 120 per hour.


This information may not be current but should be close.

Many of details of basic salary and allowance here but does anybody have details of the all important extras.
Loss of Licence, medical insurance, death in service?
What is the cost of car ownerships ? Are there any interest free loans from company?
I am aware there is no pension.
Education allowance , does this include university? If so is it only to cover course fees or can we claim for student accomodation and living expenses.
Living in Doha? Is it feasable for a couple to live in say West Bay area in a reasonable appartment within the housing allowance for DEC? ( I preffer the idea of being near coast and restaurants etc as schooling no longer a priority).
Are there any reasonable sailing clubs or facilities for leisure sailing? Not just racing?
Cost of living compared to UK?
Internet- is it fast enough and cheap enough to to ba able to view UK TV via VPN?
If anybody has any details of the above much appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

Money is as above Cloud 999. minus the bond for the first 18months if they take you NTR. You get this back after 36 months though.

West Bay or The Pearl is where a lot of the guys live, you could maybe source something for the 12000QR. However most people pay 15000-25000, depending on tastes. Some of the wide body guys share and make nice money, biding for the US flights to see the family. The Pearl is 25mins-45mins from the Hardies Car Park. Normally one direction you will hit the traffic, the other will be midnight/2 am. So quite, just take care!! subtract 10-15mins for west bay. A lot of guys stay at Ezdan Suites while finding there feet in Doha. Training takes 6months min NTR, 4months TR'd narrow body, longer on the wide body. Bond is taken from day one, so money can be a bit short during this period if fixed outgoings are high or you still have commitments back home.

Banks give car loans after 6 months, driving is dangerous here, many accidents and it is an issue for the authorities. Petrol is very cheap though so, it is possible to indulge in some cubic inches.!

Sailing, there aren't clubs like in the UK. More like the french, with sailing centres. Where you can hire a Laser for 100QR an hour. Wind is generally 5-10kts, however there are very windy days during Shimal season. 25-35kts.

Cost of living is cheaper than the UK in most things. However food quality can be variable, because most stuff is imported. They recently opened a farmers market for Qatari farmers, which is interesting.

Eating out is expensive, alcohol is expensive due restrictions on supply.

Internet is quick in some areas where they installed fibre. However most areas, OK for radio. To watch TV down load for iPlayer or C4.

Thanks for the info F14 it all helps to build up the big picture!
If anybody knows about loss of licence or death in service details if any that wold be a help. Cheers.

Eating out
 

REF: F14 remark.

Eating out expensive in western style or fancy local restaurants. Truth is the best food for eating out is in the local establishments and two can dine on amazing food for the equivalent of $25.00 US. Many ethnic cuisines represented and healthier (and less expensive) than eating at Burger King.

After you obtain your liquor permit, enjoy your beverages in you home. Safer and much less expensive than dining and drinking at an establishment that has a liquor license!

Thanks for some useful info guys , i just read some pretty horrific reviews about Ezdan suites on trip advisor, why do guys stay there initially? Maybe its better than the reviews suggest?
Sounds like there are some nice options for rental in West Bay/ Pearl with maybe a little extra cost.
Also I just heard that new entrants will now be getting company accomodation does anyone know the name of this area and any experience.
Cheers
Oh Happy New Year all !

Positive or negative
 

Hi,Just for info?
Are there any current Captains here that have any positive/ negative issues about QA on the 330 fleet?
Also what can one expect to gross monthly with regard to salary and all allowances.
Thanks for info.

worst news ever -.-

i have heard of people waiting for more than half a year when in doha, yes.
but i havent heard of random terminations (there was always - even if a random - reason to it)


#############edit##############

the post was an answer to the post of a FO who wrote something here yesterday but seemed to have it deleted. obviously there were random terminations in the training department because it couldnt handle the overall situation.

but who really knows... lets wait and see

@cloud999
It appears they are using " Holiday Villa" as one of the housing options. I does seem to be fact that they are now "as of today" assigning housing vs giving the 10,000 QR/ month

Just a correction from F14's post. You can get a new car loan straight away but have to wait 6 months for the personal loan. Unless its changed in a year, in which case I stand corrected.

I am living it in my own soul, I am here in Doha, as FTSO (fast track sh-t officer) and the way the company treat you is incredible....
You join the 5 stars joke with a bag full of ilusion and in a couple of months you realize that are in another company, not in Qatar Airways.
They promised you 42 days of leave, and later you only get 30, they said to you that you will be trained Fast and later you are MORE than a YEAR doing nothing in this bored country, with very little money and without flying....
And if you want to go to your country, they changed the ticket policy and now you only can fly in economy, business is only for the company pilots, and your are not one of them, you are nothing in this country.
And in the 330 fleet, the Second Officers Fast Track, after being waiting more than a year to fly a little bit, are now being fired without any explanation, just because the company changed the mind.
This is the situation now with the Second Officers.....or Sh_t Officers, because they make you fell like that.
All the FO that join the company after you (even a year after you!!!!) are flying directly, and you just see the time passing in front of you.
And if you go to talk with management, they smile to you and say always the same: Do not worry, in a couple of months you will be flying as FO.....always the same joke.
Some Second Officers are moving to other places, because it is easy to find a job where they pay you more than 2000$, that is your salary for years......
I am about to move, but this week they told me that in two months I will be flying, and maybe this time it is true, if it is not, I will go.....

DEC
 

Anybody with any idea when narrowbody DEC recruitment may start again?

Amen.
They cant hold the truth in forever!
Yep, i must say they are treating the SOs like :mad:
I think you may get a couple flights here and there, but my advice is to go do the interview in another airline and give yourself the option!

Hi all FTSO, SO,

I really don't understand what the difference is between a FTSO in linetraining and a FO who is in linetraining, except the amount of sectors and the salary. But then again, who am I to understand their philosophy about recruitment/linetraining? :(
In their last mail they said they would not recruit more FTSO, but hire the ones in the holding pool, based on priorities, etc... So I would say based on that, that they have their training in order, and it wouldn't last as long as in the past.
I have information from a reliable source that QR would only hire 15 FTSO's for 2013. And it's unknown on what factors these FTSO's would be called, except that these would receive information in February. Based on this, I would say that the training will not last as long anymore. But hey, what do I know? :(
And the other question is, what happens with the rest? Because I think there are more than 15 FTSO's in the pool.
I don't know what to say/write anymore.
Cheers to you all and all a happy 2013.
cccc

FTSO / SO
 

@Cccc,

The information you got saying that only 15 FTSO's will join in 2013 is most probably correct. I have seen an email from a manager of recruitment telling that no further Externally recruited SO's (normal track, cadets) would be hired in 2013. The email also said: there might be a requirement fora limited number of FTSO but only in the second half of 2013. I guess there are about 50+ normal SO's and 100iish FTSO's in the pool (my guess) . ALSO Qatar was in Tunesia to recruit NTSO/ FTSO as part of some kind of charity project to support Tunesian citizens. Will these Tunesians be given priority?
My friend was on the interview (NTSO) And they told him: from April onwaard youll be starting. What is going on?!

I find it just disturbing that we all have gone the through the same selection, are put in this holding pool, and after all this... you have to be lucky to get hired, because their policy/requirement has changed. I know that aviation changes... but the fact is that QR has a big order of aircrafts... and they will need pilots...
In the beginning of 2012, I went to their open day... they needed about 700 pilots... and now... you might get called. :(

I dont Know what your sources are, but its high likely they are not correct.
QR have had problems with instruction this last year but it keep nedding pilots for 2013. A friend FTSO received the good news a coouple of days ago.
Why woulnt they hire us??We only have to a do a few sectors more than a FO.
In the Nov update ,QR told us that we will be hired in 2013.why dont trust them?

Pilot of Doha, no offense, but youre making a joke of yourself.
I know its a country based on religion, but keep religion out of contracts.

People around the world not coming from islamic coutries are used to take a contract for each other as word and a promise on both sides. In case one does not keep his contract, there is a possibility to go into court to cover your loss because of the situation. In many countries that are still developing, I say Qatar is still one of them, contracts are changed according to the need of the contractor just because he likes to do so. No unions allowed, no lawyers, no civil rights.

Still all this is not supposed to be negative, its just being realistic.

Lets say it drastically (I really hope no one does that) - if someone sells all his belongings back home to move to Doha and to buy an appartment there, all based on a signed contract, and then the company does not adhere to the contract (we call you later, and later, and later) - well, that guy is screwed. Financially, maybe personally with family life, who knows.
Its just an example after all.

Maybe that guy took a loan based on the contract or quit his previous job after he SIGNED with qatar airways. And we know that several FO have signed a contract before. Not an offer of employment. A contract.

But that guy will NEVER get any refunds for the expenses he got caused by the delay, ultimately caused by absolute inability of planning ahead.

In most places in the middle east a contract is not worth the paper it is printed on. If you talk for a foreigners side. For locals its different. Ive seen people reasoning it with the Quran: Youre allowed to lie to the misbelieving if it benefits you. Great. Thats all the proof we need.

I think the ME can be a great place to work. But unfortunately there are too many incompetent people in high positions that keep every piece of power and information to themselves.

Personally, I think disagreeable is right. He doesnt have any benefits on telling us his point of view. Of course it is good to be positive all the time. But also I have to admit that many things sound very familiar. I too know some people in Qatar that told me similar in confidence. Also, I have heard positive news as well on every side.

And concerning the low hour pilots <2500h TT: I know that initially Capt. Alkhayat tried everything he could to get competent proffessionals into the company. The new Capt Miller actually told people to "screw themselves" and "try again the next life".

As this is a rumours network, everyone can post whatever he likes. In my point of view - I am being rather negative on the outcome of 2013 after what I have heard 1st and 2nd handedly. And I still know many people working there. In HR, Flightcrew(cockpit and cabin), recruitment, operations... As a matter of fact, many people resigned in December, others regularely jumpship, some change over accross the lake, many get terminated. The new airport is "about" to open and there are many aircraft on order. Yes. For the long term, Qatar Airways needs Pilots.

But looking at the beginning of the post reminds me how fast things can change and according to the information I have at hand, it might be very likely that those waiting for a long time already, might be kicked out of the pool. What did the "november update" say? ease of SO, seizement of FO... hm well. that leaves us with DEC, just as they are looking for on all the recruitment platforms.
I guess Qatar couldnt have figured that earlier - or rather invite DEC in the pool. Or maybe UPGRADE some SFO that are waiting for their upgrade since months/years.

Information policy is just as screwed as the rest. Often they just forgot about things and then they pretend it never happend. And my guess is, that someone at Qatar had an initial plan, left, and now the new recruitment is puzzeled with what was intended and created this pool thing. Without seniority or transparicy.

Again, dont get me wrong, I like Qatar Airways, Doha, and most of the people there. But so many things are screwed up. And to be honest, I guess most foreigners there wouldnt work in the desert with that much of misleading information, if they really had a well paid job offer on good aircraft back home. And the reason why aviation in the middle east gets bigger and bigger is among many reasons, the big subvention of the airlines by state, ultimately by oil/gas. If there werent any of it, people would most likely not come. This is just being realistic.

To close this, also I would come, because it is well paid for good and hard work. If it would be that easy, I guess everybody would be happy. But it aint.

Like I said before

What the rule is today may not be the rule tomorrow

What the plan is today may not be the plan tomorrow

If you don't like it, please do something about it. One thing for sure, whilst you are here, don't bother complaining to me or other pilots, we are not interested. There is nothing you can do about it apart from put up with it or leave.

And by the way, many are happy here, they just don't come on here telling you that. Many are grateful to have a job here especially those that have landed this as their first job on a large jet getting paid well. If you think its bad here, then go elsewhere will you as I don't want to be flying with you. I don't want to spend hours listening to you. It is what it is, man up and deal with it or go away please. If you manage to get through the first 12-18 months, you will be fine.

Some of the posting on here make some people look like spoilt immature brats. Do us all a favour, if you have something to post of useful information with facts, please go ahead, but posting someone has been fired, dismissed for no reason, your talking ****e. The is a reason for everything, although I will be honest, some people have bad luck.

As for all those who are in the hold pool, I do feel for you. I do hope you all get the call sooner or later and look forward to you comeong to Qatar.

checkthisout

You have no rights here, so smile and be positive and hope for the best. If you piss people off here, no one will help you.

One last thing, dont believe most of what is written on here. Its by many who are just guessing or have had their arse kicked here

Does any one know what is the future for those who have applied with the old procedure the last few months but they have not been invited for interview?

@777
My source about the 15 FTSO comes from an A330 captain who is also in the recruitment. And this is being confirmed by jeanpaul.
I know that the last mail from QR said that all manpower will be taken from the holding pool.
Why I don't trust them? Based on the following facts:
Interview: February 2012
Pass mail: March 2012 (This mail stated that it would take not more than 6 weeks to get an approval for the offer of employment)
Between March and October: called them a few times... their answer: please wait for next e-mail.
Mail received about next update in Nov 2012: October 2012
Mail received about next update in February 2013: December 2012
What is next? A mail in February which will say that there will be another mail update in xxxx?
As a lot of other guys/girls: I've waiting a long time...

Black Pudding, Im not being negative at most, just being realistic.

You said it yourself:

"What the rule is today may not be the rule tomorrow

What the plan is today may not be the plan tomorrow"

Of course, if I had a job with Qatar AND already be checked out (so it is up to me to be fired and not up to random terminations) Id be happy and thankful as well.

But until now, I guess I am not the only one who Qatar brought grief. Thats all I am saying. Or do you honestly and uprightly think that everything they "planned" with the holding pool last year will be achieved?
Also, there is no denial that they break contracts and that many people are being put into very ungrateful situations because of that. As I said, its just plotting the realistic situation.
On the other side I know many people happy to fly for Qatar. Yes, it seems to happen as well.

But be honest with yourself - if you really really had a well paid job offer on a big aircraft back home or somewhere else than middle east, you probably not be in doha. In contra, of course I would be happy to have a job there as well, as I dont have - like most people here - another choice.


"You have no rights here, so smile and be positive and hope for the best"

Your quote sums it up pretty well. :ok:

Hold pool
 

It's difficult to fully move on to something else with Qatar still in the back of our heads. For us (FT) SO's I do fear. Still it looks like they keep us in the pool for whatever reason. My view is that they just dont want to take the time to personally inform us we are not being expected this year (and probably not in the coming years as well) I know a few guys in the pool for NTSO who are well over the age limit of 30, still receiving pool updates!! These guys are still waiting, hoping only to be most probably told they are over the age limit once someone really looks at their file before spending the offer.

You tell me where all the jobs are that I will earn as much as I earn now flying well maintained machines and not pressurised into doing something I should not be doing. Yes the rosters are hard, but I could hand my notice in, leave in 90 days and be unemployed.

I would rather be here than many places in the world. There is a lot of ex pats here all in the same boat and lots and lots of nice people. Its a safe place to be. Everyone speaks English. Most signs are in English. The job is secure unless you mess up and chances are, if you hold your hands up and admit you have done wrong, you wont get fired. Do something stupid and well, that's your own fault.

Do the job, smile, go home, how difficult can that be.

As for yourself, I don't understand ? are you here in Doha waiting to train or in the hold pool ?

If you're in the hold pool, remember, you don't have a job until you turn up here on day 1

As for breaking contracts, its their train set and they can and will do what they want. Many came in 2010 to go on the 777 and after waiting a few months for training, got switched to the 330 and 320 fleet. Never mind, life goes on and may of been a blessing in disguise.

Wear your hat and jacket buttoned up when your suppose to, be stable at 1000 feet (1500 to be on the safe side) and remember to flare.

You're only as good as the last flight you have done and its not over until the park brake is set and the doors are open.

If you're in the hold pool, you should keep looking and not have all your eggs in one basket.

Holding pool
 

That's ok.
We should not have all the eggs in one basket.I dont do either.
But i cant understand why everybody thinks we are going not to be hired.
As I said, I have a friend FTSO that received the good news Mail a couple of days ago after the Nov update...why should they send it if they are not going to take him into account?

@777
I don't know why they do things as they do.
I will believe it when I'm in Doha,starting the training.

Why would they terminate the training of FTSO? Did they screw up or was it something else?

ccc
I dont understand what you mean.

Dear Not a pilotofdoha
 

pilotofdoha,
You have done nothing in the above recent post other than to prove you're a managment plant, and if not, a complete imbecile.

You call me a racist, but then you email me about all the Indians nationalities screwing up your chances of getting hired. Your a selfish hypocritical fool.

Multiple attempts via PM to get me to meet you, and multiple attempts to try to link anything i say to being negative/wrong or being many logins. :ugh:
If i am so wrong, where are the massive numbers of people being hired? many on this forum waiting.
Why do a lot of people leave to go across the pond??
Why are the many poor SOs not being communicated to about why they are sitting around for 12+ months waiting for training??
Why are the hold pool people left guessing?
Want me to continue?

You cannot even prove me wrong, because what i say is correct because its reality, it may be a harsh reality, andyou may not like it, but it is what many see here.

If u can provide any relevant information to this thread then do so, you seem to boast a lot about your contacts in QR but PilotofDoha you fail to give anything of substance.

All i can say to you is there may be a reason your not hired yet, and praying wont fix that.

Never contact me again.

I was ready to go to Doha, a few days ago, as DEC on 777....
Changed my mind two days before travel. Prefer to stay with present employer.
Q.A. is not the paradise for aviators. Specially when there is no commuting.
Extremely upset, when I received the ticket, in economy, rather b.c.
I suposed to be a captain on 777....not a bagger...Not a good impression.
Anyway, this is my opinion, right or not (time will indicate), to leave those folks in Doha, alone, without my presence.
Good luck for all of you, trying to enter this airline. :ok:

WOW!!!! Turn down a potential job because of not getting a business class ticket. I guess you have a good job, and don't have to trouble yourself. Must be nice!! Anyway, leave the job for someone wow really wants it.
By the way, they always give everyone an economy ticket. They upgrade you at the airport.

BDD

wow,wow,wow!! Thanks "refugee". It was an economy booking but travelled First Class!!! wow wow wow.

Well, maybe if this happens often enough people will start being treated differently/accordingly.

bdd, south prince, if you like this kind of treatment , then run behind them....
Personally after 35 years in the cockpit, i don't like this kind of treatment.
Ending, my present job is very good, and i have to deal with persons who
are generous and cool.
And this job was founded, when waiting for Q.A. to give me a joining date...

.......
 

Believe me , my impression is that as a captain you treated very nice here.
The rest , I keep myself out of the discussion.
Cannot complain ,and enjoy the ride .
I just know the feelin of a lot here .

Just my 50 cents....

Cheers

UP

@Disagreeable
 

Can you give more details? Do you mean all NTSO waiting their Feb update are going to be reinterview before any DOJ?? If not, who are those concerned by what you said and why for some? What is the new process?

Just for curiosity, we’ve seen NTSO sent to the A330 fleet, did it happen for the 777 fleet? If not, does somebody know why the difference?

P.S:To NTSOs, maybe not a bad idea to get a A320 type rating while you’re waiting to put yourself at the same level of CTC’s or Tunisian guys already type-rated?

Could somebody give any indication of how long it normally takes to get a reply from DEC application for interview date? How much notive is then given for interview?
Is this done by phone or email?
Cheers

Response from application for an interview is approximately within a few months and your given about a 4 -6 weeks notice for the interview.Very rough guide only.All done by email.