Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Middle East
Reload this Page >

Emirates Payrise

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Emirates Payrise

Old 14th Jul 2019, 00:37
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: A cut above
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Emma Royds View Post
The swap system is fully automated and uses FTL criteria plus a company created buffer for rest periods and flying hour limits. Therefore any swap that is made, will be comfortably within FTL limits. I think my colleague is trying to highlight a scenario when a swap is made, that simply reduces your rest period.
Thanks, that's clear.

I'm not sure where I sit on that one then. I can see both sides of the argument.

Cheers.
whatsyourbeef is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2019, 05:09
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 419
Fatigue isn’t a one off thing, that is tiredness. Fatigue is cumulative, and if the swaps are within the FTL program and your reporting fatigue then the system is broken. The flight crew are fatigued due to long term cumulatively fatiguing rosters and this is the problem, not a swap here and there within FTL’s to make a roster slightly more bearable.
felixthecat is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2019, 10:34
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Kingston upon Thames
Posts: 80
All good.
loads of money.
Happiness everywhere.
Carry on.

Regards,

Kippalippa
KippaLippa is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2019, 13:27
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by felixthecat View Post
Fatigue isnít a one off thing, that is tiredness. Fatigue is cumulative, and if the swaps are within the FTL program and your reporting fatigue then the system is broken. The flight crew are fatigued due to long term cumulatively fatiguing rosters and this is the problem, not a swap here and there within FTLís to make a roster slightly more bearable.
Felix gets it. Itís not the swapping around a trip that causes a trip or you to be fatiguing - as the FTL system should prevent that - yet they will threaten you with swap removal to stem the report flow. Itís a cynical tactic
fliion is offline  
Old 14th Jul 2019, 13:59
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 50
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by 777-200LR View Post



No one here is approving EK management but to think that this is not happening industry wide is either naive or ignorant.

Yet by you you staying at EK you ARE approving of management actions towards its pilots. You are part of the problem.
I might be ignorant at times but to suggest this is happening worldwide is off base. Delta is demanding a 30% raise in their opener and this on top of their Industry leading pay rates to say nothing of their contract terms.
AA and QF will get nice raises too in the immediate future.
You are what you demand.
cerbus is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2019, 09:58
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Doctor's waiting room
Posts: 595
Originally Posted by cerbus View Post



Yet by you you staying at EK you ARE approving of management actions towards its pilots. You are part of the problem.
I might be ignorant at times but to suggest this is happening worldwide is off base. Delta is demanding a 30% raise in their opener and this on top of their Industry leading pay rates to say nothing of their contract terms.
AA and QF will get nice raises too in the immediate future.
You are what you demand.
Not wanting to be seen to defend the company, since stagnant terms and conditions are a concern for us all at EK but if I may put your example into context Cerbus, QF, AA and DL all declared operating margins close to four times the size of what EK posted a few months ago in their 2018-2019 results (2.7%).

To those reading this and thinking of joining, bear in mind that EK is no longer the lean and efficient money making machine it used to be. You must take into account the very real possibility that future improvements to the remuneration package may be infrequent in nature, against a backdrop of increasing living costs in what is already an expensive place to live.
Emma Royds is offline  
Old 15th Jul 2019, 20:29
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 50
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by Emma Royds View Post
Not wanting to be seen to defend the company, since stagnant terms and conditions are a concern for us all at EK but if I may put your example into context Cerbus, QF, AA and DL all declared operating margins close to four times the size of what EK posted a few months ago in their 2018-2019 results (2.7%).
Why shouldnít we expect, hell demand what DL 777 pilots are getting or QF 380 pilots are receiving? A lot of the same routes with the same equipment.
Just because our margins have shrunk is not our fault. Itís marketing and commercial fault and we shouldnít have to suffer. I know we suffer big time but it has to end.
cerbus is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 04:51
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: S E Asia
Posts: 160
Cerbus - in the late '90's and possibly into the 2000's, the EK pilot salary scales were set by a comparison with the salary scales of a "basket" of other, what might be called for the purpose, "top tier" carriers. I believe there were five in the basket, and included BA, CX and SQ, if my recall is correct. I don't recall when that comparison exercise was dropped, if indeed it was, or if/when the component airlines of the basket changed, but I do remember the whole exercise gradually became much less transparent to the pilots after GJ retired as GM Flight Ops (or whatever the title was back then).
7B
777boyo is offline  
Old 16th Jul 2019, 09:21
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: PENang, Malaysia
Posts: 144
the fifth was QF
Three Wire is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 00:16
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: nowhere
Posts: 67
You must be smoking something good if you think that EK is going to match the legacies, or maybe it is the fatigue?

If you don't like what EK offers then there is the door. There is no shortage of applicants at EK anymore so don't expect anything to improve. Fortunately there are plenty of other carriers out there that offer much better T&Cs , maybe at lower salaries but there is more to life than money. I left EK for a sizeable pay decrease but I save more now than I ever did in Dubai, family is much happier/healthier and lifestyle has significantly improved. No regrets.
directimped is offline  
Old 17th Jul 2019, 22:58
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: 54N
Posts: 29
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by MaverickPrime View Post
Decline in T&Cs goes much wider than aviation. I remember in the early 2000s, my dad was a police constable at the top of his scale earning £42k. My mum was a clerical worker earning £20k on a part time NHS contract; thatís the equivalent of £67k and £32k respectively in todayís money.

Today the top of the police constable scale is £38k and a full time clerical worker in the NHS still earns £20k max. Leave allocation has reduced and final salary pensions are gone.

There are a lot of reasons for the pathetic levels remuneration across the developed world today; corporate & individual greed, increasing population & reducing workforce, over regulation, decline of the west... the list is endless and I think the snowball has got too big to stop.

I fear the only way to succeed in life is to plot your own career path, accept that there will be many twists and turns in your life, accept that you cannot rely on any single organisation to provide you with a living and just make the most of what life throws at you.

Its a brave new new world we live in, those who succeed will be those who can adapt. Sitting around looking back into the past with rose tinted glasses is not going to get you anywhere.
Very well stated; wise advise
Neektu is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2019, 04:28
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,366
Not to mention that no one at EK would have the seniority to hold LHS Delta 777 or Qantas 380. Just because you fly the same AC does not qualify for the same pay. HY Fly 380 same as BA 380 ?
fatbus is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2019, 11:23
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NQLD
Age: 33
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by cerbus View Post



Yet by you you staying at EK you ARE approving of management actions towards its pilots. You are part of the problem.
I might be ignorant at times but to suggest this is happening worldwide is off base. Delta is demanding a 30% raise in their opener and this on top of their Industry leading pay rates to say nothing of their contract terms.
AA and QF will get nice raises too in the immediate future.
You are what you demand.
All well and good to say this BUT not everyone can work at Delta, AA or QF. My first choice was QF, Iíd argue itís the top of the pile in OZ and pretty much every pilot that starts out aims for the top. If Iíd been offered a QF gig, Iíd be there. But I wasnít, so EK was the next best choice.

Its not realistic to expect everyone to walk away from a job like EK because ĎI should be working for a legacy, I deserve betterí. Want we all want and what is available/given are two VERY different things.

Despite what you may think, EK is still attractive to many pilots around the world. Even with the lack of payrises, the money is still reasonable in comparison to what is on offer elsewhere. The trade off is obviously how hard we all work and the lack of normal employee protections most of us enjoy back home.

Iím not Ďpro EK managementí before you try and paint me with this brush. Just realistic. Plus this idea that we should all be working for the best and screw the rest, pisses me off. Everyone takes the best option available to them at the time.
aviation_enthus is offline  
Old 18th Jul 2019, 14:56
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sky
Posts: 28
World Situation

Originally Posted by aviation_enthus View Post


All well and good to say this BUT not everyone can work at Delta, AA or QF. My first choice was QF, Iíd argue itís the top of the pile in OZ and pretty much every pilot that starts out aims for the top. If Iíd been offered a QF gig, Iíd be there. But I wasnít, so EK was the next best choice.

Its not realistic to expect everyone to walk away from a job like EK because ĎI should be working for a legacy, I deserve betterí. Want we all want and what is available/given are two VERY different things.

Despite what you may think, EK is still attractive to many pilots around the world. Even with the lack of payrises, the money is still reasonable in comparison to what is on offer elsewhere. The trade off is obviously how hard we all work and the lack of normal employee protections most of us enjoy back home.

Iím not Ďpro EK managementí before you try and paint me with this brush. Just realistic. Plus this idea that we should all be working for the best and screw the rest, pisses me off. Everyone takes the best option available to them at the time.
I agree with you.

Times have change and being a pilot is not what it used to be years ago. Many years ago landing a Job at a decent airline was hard, nowadays there are plenty of options but quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. Pilots are stuck in the old mentalities where we want to work less for more, sorry gentleman but that is over. If being a pilot and the salaries you are getting aren't enough nowadays then I guess is time to look for a career change. Even if pilots would be put to work less they would still complaint. I am not in favor of any company I am just realistic on what the market is and what it has to offer and unless you can work in legacy airlines with good benefits which by the way they are very few of those, we are stuck with what we have because.

Everywhere you want to fly you are expected to be productive, that is the new TERM. Theres no perfect job and there will never be one specially nowadays.
K1000 is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2019, 05:19
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1
Pay at Emirates? Yearly COLA

Hi Guys! Ive always been curious about Emirates and the pay. How do you guys get paid? Hourly? Salary? Contract? Do you have yearly raises or do you negotiate for them? Is the company good about giving them out? What does the pilot group do to achieve higher rates?

Also the rumor is that bunk time does not count for block hour limitations. Do pilots call in Fatique or is there an issue?

I, for one, have always thought of DXB a nice place to be, albeit hot. Can an expat buy a house there?

Thanks in advance!
Captain Z is offline  
Old 21st Jul 2019, 20:46
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,366
Bunk time paid yes FTL no
fatigue plenty but very few report in fear of fleet
pay 90/10 salary/ hourly
contract not worth the paper it's written on
buy property yes but buyer beware !!!!!
schools good
dubai a nice place , NOT, mentally and physically draining . Unless single and only want CC . Burn out quickly, hence the attrition which is never reported correctly.

fatbus is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2019, 00:10
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 50
Posts: 329
So if we can't compare Delta or Qantas to us how do we measure ourselves? I know not very well but under your metrics we should never leave because we will take a pay cut.
cerbus is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2019, 00:26
  #58 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,916
Originally Posted by Captain Z View Post
Hi Guys! Ive always been curious about Emirates and the pay. How do you guys get paid? Hourly? Salary? Contract? Do you have yearly raises or do you negotiate for them? Is the company good about giving them out? What does the pilot group do to achieve higher rates?

Also the rumor is that bunk time does not count for block hour limitations. Do pilots call in Fatique or is there an issue?

I, for one, have always thought of DXB a nice place to be, albeit hot. Can an expat buy a house there?

Thanks in advance!
Negotiate? Pilot Group? Those two words alone could see you inside a prison.

is the company good at giving out pay rises? Now thatís just funny.
SOPS is online now  
Old 22nd Jul 2019, 03:25
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,366
Cereus ? Sorry that makes no sense. Compare to other carriers, look at other similar " expat " airlines .
fatbus is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2019, 12:13
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dusty West
Age: 49
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by fatbus View Post
Cereus ? Sorry that makes no sense. Compare to other carriers, look at other similar " expat " airlines .
Some Chinese carriers are paying an excess of USD 24,000 per month after tax which is far more than EK with all the extra's. Let's not start with the "yes but its China" argument since these are "expat" airlines as well. Why shouldn't the EK pilots compare their salaries to legacy American carriers? Emirates management have for years gone on record saying they just do things better, so why not the pay?

Of course EK management want to compare their pay scales with those of lowest LCC's and why not? They have "the shareholder" (also known as the ruler of Dubai, or "government" ) to pay.

All in all it is a moot point in reality. EK will continue to attract young pilots with the desire to fly shiny wide body jets to far away places. They will be hired, trained and used until they burn out then will be replaced with a new serviceable unit. Since EK hires from the GLOBAL pool of pilots, the supply is effectively endless and will continue to be so.

Of course, ( to coin the utterance of "Alan The Great", if you don't like it then leave........for now.



The Outlaw is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.