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Emirates Payrise

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Emirates Payrise

Old 22nd Jul 2019, 12:31
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,007
Not even asking for comparable Legacy carrier pay - simply step.

What the ‘be happy it’s a decent job’ young gun crowd fail to grasp is that in a very quick 10 years - you will be down 30-40% yet fully vested in DXB due kids in school, possible wife career - with the prospect of having to start again somewhere else in order to work for employer that actually keeps up. All while our employer has made billions over the last ten years.

Comparing US legacies to here is ascinine - you have a Union, we have a jail cell.
fliion is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2019, 15:49
  #62 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,911
Originally Posted by K1000 View Post
I agree with you.

Times have change and being a pilot is not what it used to be years ago. Many years ago landing a Job at a decent airline was hard, nowadays there are plenty of options but quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. Pilots are stuck in the old mentalities where we want to work less for more, sorry gentleman but that is over. If being a pilot and the salaries you are getting aren't enough nowadays then I guess is time to look for a career change. Even if pilots would be put to work less they would still complaint. I am not in favor of any company I am just realistic on what the market is and what it has to offer and unless you can work in legacy airlines with good benefits which by the way they are very few of those, we are stuck with what we have because.

Everywhere you want to fly you are expected to be productive, that is the new TERM. Theres no perfect job and there will never be one specially nowadays.

And the above comment is why the entire industry is on a race to the bottom... “ it’s not going to get better, just accept it’s going to get worse, shut up and get on with it’ .. while those at the top get more and more. Is the CEO of Qantas really worth 23 mill a year? IMHO.. he’s not.

And those at the top in EK continue taking untold riches while constantly eroding the conditions for those at the coal face. While all the new young pilots say.. it’s ok, the jets are big and shiny and the girls are cute. 😤😤
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Old 23rd Jul 2019, 09:46
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
it’s ok, the jets are big and shiny and the girls are cute.
What's wrong with that? If they are happy to pay with soul and health for as long as they can hack it, take the endorsement, command hours and as much money and poon as they can get, then good luck to them. EK deserves no better. Look at the housing rental scene, arabs would rather leave a place vacant than reduce the rent to market value. Same at EK and things will never change, no matter how tight it gets for the company, so pilots may as well take what they can get until it no longer suits them. A lot of pilots here seem to struggle with the fact that they are lied to so much. If they accept that most of what they're told re contract and conditions (and life in general) is probably bullshit and won't change, and adjust their outlooks and long-term plans accordingly, then they might sleep easier and be happier. EK is an excellent training system for better jobs elsewhere if and when they come up.
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Old 24th Jul 2019, 06:40
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Doha
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by JAARule View Post
A lot of pilots here seem to struggle with the fact that they are lied to so much. If they accept that most of what they're told re contract and conditions (and life in general) is probably bullshit and won't change, and adjust their outlooks and long-term plans accordingly, then they might sleep easier and be happier.
Probably the best advice I’ve seen here. Applies to all expat gigs. And it needed saying.

OW
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 00:22
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Attic
Age: 55
Posts: 107
I wish the dribble of how bad it is Everywhere would stop. Some airlines suck for sure and EK heads up this forum for very good reasons but it is not awful everywhere.
I left Emirates for greener pastures (much greener) and my new airline is asking for a 30% pay raise and will probably get something close to that in addition to a 25% retirement contribution. LH, BA and Qantas will also do well in the months to come.
If you set your sights low you won't get much. If you demand more you will get more. There is a worldwide pilot shortage so now is the time to take advantage of this situation that has not existed for probably 40 years.
Low pay and lot's of flying hours is not the best way for prosperity, at least not for pilots.
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 03:11
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: shenzen
Age: 38
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by Neptune Spear View Post
I wish the dribble of how bad it is Everywhere would stop. Some airlines suck for sure and EK heads up this forum for very good reasons but it is not awful everywhere.
I left Emirates for greener pastures (much greener) and my new airline is asking for a 30% pay raise and will probably get something close to that in addition to a 25% retirement contribution. LH, BA and Qantas will also do well in the months to come.
If you set your sights low you won't get much. If you demand more you will get more. There is a worldwide pilot shortage so now is the time to take advantage of this situation that has not existed for probably 40 years.
Low pay and lot's of flying hours is not the best way for prosperity, at least not for pilots.

"Worldwide Pilot shortage".....Don't make me laugh....even Ryanair have stopped recruiting.
kungfu panda is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2019, 19:15
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: 30W
Age: 100
Posts: 122
STC has stated another 2-3 years to get the airline back on track. Wouldn’t expect any raise until that time...
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Old 28th Jul 2019, 01:17
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UAE
Posts: 232
Originally Posted by Yorkshire_Pudding View Post
STC has stated another 2-3 years to get the airline back on track. Wouldn’t expect any raise until that time...

Hmmmm ! Back on track .. ? does that mean it’s “ off track “
Jack D is offline  
Old 1st Aug 2019, 18:01
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 323
"back on track in 2-3 years"? Not likely. Until EK can reduce its 380 fleet to a size that can at least break even, and until newer aircraft can make routes profitable again, EK is in dire straights. Don't expect to see real profit again for nearly a decade until the 380 fleet gets back to something like 40 aircraft.

The only reason EK has kept its head above water for the past few years is because they've made huge amounts of money from buying big fleets of aircraft at bargain basement prices, and on-selling individual airframes to leasing companies for a hefty profit...my estimate..around a billion dollars a year from on selling airframes to leasing companies. That gig is all but finished, at least for the 380, given the lack of any residual value for that aircraft at the end of a lease. Who wants a second hand A380? Without the subsidies provided by that scheme, the 380 has to stand on its own. Hence one of the main reasons for EK's massive drop in profits over the past year or two.
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Old 2nd Aug 2019, 12:48
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by fliion View Post
What the ‘be happy it’s a decent job’ young gun crowd fail to grasp is that in a very quick 10 years - you will be down 30-40% yet fully vested in DXB due kids in school, possible wife career - with the prospect of having to start again somewhere else in order to work for employer that actually keeps up. All while our employer has made billions over the last ten years.

Comparing US legacies to here is ascinine - you have a Union, we have a jail cell.
Bollocks. Wife with a career, kids' school 90% covered, getting paid an unimproved but still substantial EK salary while building the hours needed for when he decides to leave later.. and you think that's a bad thing? What planet are you on?

Jail cell? Have you been locked up for something??
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Old 2nd Aug 2019, 21:49
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: escaped EK
Posts: 64
Wife career in the UAE? Don't make me laugh.
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Old 2nd Aug 2019, 23:00
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,359
Teacher, doctor, dentist, hygienist,lawyer , business owner just to mention a few.
fatbus is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2019, 06:43
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Home soon
Posts: 1,969
Father always told me , if you dont like the food in your plate, change restaurant.
Applies to many aspects of one’s life...including employer🤸*♂️🙏🏻
de facto is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2019, 09:45
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: LUX
Posts: 73
Originally Posted by de facto View Post
Father always told me , if you dont like the food in your plate, change restaurant.
Applies to many aspects of one’s life...including employer🤸*♂️🙏🏻
I do agree with you. BUT: in a “free” country with a unionised workforce you could actually demand to “change the menu”. If you work for EK however, it is Shish Tawook every effin day of the rest of your career.
SaulGoodman is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2019, 11:15
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: MIDDLE EAST
Posts: 1,040
Saul

Let's see how BA pilots get on over the next few months with their 'demand'.

UK based and with an apparently strong union, this benchmark airline has seen it's own T&C's eroded over the years. If you'd asked one of the senior pilots 10 years ago that in a decades time he'd be without a final salary pension and no bidline system, he'd have laughed in your face.

Times are forever changing and I wish the pilots well in their fight to preserve a fair wage. Sadly, there will be little sympathy for those pilots. How can the average Joe show empathy to a pilot strike, with senior Captains already earning 200K a year according to the Daily Mail? Difficult, when he's on 50K (almost double national average still!) and his family are stuck in a crowded terminal not going anywhere. Of course, the irony of then paying every other week the best part of 100 quid to watch his premiership team is lost on him, given the players are also pulling in two hundred grand....a week!

Which boils down to one simple thing. Supply and demand. Isn't that what this conversation is really all about?

Harry
harry the cod is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2019, 11:57
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: LUX
Posts: 73
At least they have a union and a legal system where one is allowed to hold industrial action. If you join EK you have very little rights. You know that when you join. No union that will help you if you have an incident. I really cannot understand why in this day and age you will join/stay the likes of EK or QR.

the final pension scheme is not relevant here. That also depends on life expectancy and demographics. Or are you of the opinion to putt the burden on the younger generations? I do not know the situation in BA but in other companies it was not sustainable.
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Old 3rd Aug 2019, 12:40
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Internet
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
If you join EK you have very little rights. You know that when you join. No union that will help you if you have an incident. I really cannot understand why in this day and age you will join/stay the likes of EK or QR.

the final pension scheme is not relevant here.
Yes - No rights at all.......but people forget this when they see the big shiny aircraft
Pensions - Locals get final salary pension scheme and early retirement but this is generally not talked about - expats don't!
Pif Paf is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2019, 15:25
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,359
Already worried about total pension payouts , it was 15 years now extended to 20 for the 75% of salary. Wait to see the current court case in the U.K. And the amount of money payed out. Dubai debt getting bigger and bigger.
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Old 4th Aug 2019, 09:18
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,007
Originally Posted by JAARule View Post
Bollocks. Wife with a career, kids' school 90% covered, getting paid an unimproved but still substantial EK salary while building the hours needed for when he decides to leave later.. and you think that's a bad thing? What planet are you on?

Jail cell? Have you been locked up for something??
ah good ole JAArule ...point missed, again ...you are consistent to be fair
fliion is offline  
Old 10th Aug 2019, 23:36
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Desert
Posts: 365
Originally Posted by harry the cod View Post
Saul

Let's see how BA pilots get on over the next few months with their 'demand'.

UK based and with an apparently strong union, this benchmark airline has seen it's own T&C's eroded over the years. If you'd asked one of the senior pilots 10 years ago that in a decades time he'd be without a final salary pension and no bidline system, he'd have laughed in your face.

Times are forever changing and I wish the pilots well in their fight to preserve a fair wage. Sadly, there will be little sympathy for those pilots. How can the average Joe show empathy to a pilot strike, with senior Captains already earning 200K a year according to the Daily Mail? Difficult, when he's on 50K (almost double national average still!) and his family are stuck in a crowded terminal not going anywhere. Of course, the irony of then paying every other week the best part of 100 quid to watch his premiership team is lost on him, given the players are also pulling in two hundred grand....a week!

Which boils down to one simple thing. Supply and demand. Isn't that what this conversation is really all about?

Harry

It all comes down to what we are worth and it is definitely what we are currently paid. Pilots at supposedly "inferior" airlines are engaging in Job Actions this summer for better T&Cs and what are we doing, defending the company and telling everyone it is not that bad or telling ourselves that. We are a joke. What International pilot makes less than us? I know there are some but not many. It is time to get paid what we are worth instead of this race to the Bottom mentality. Even Ryanair is flexing some of their muscle in the weeks to come. Not us.
On a side note it is good to have you back Harry. I'm glad you didn't go to Easy Jet even though you are probably regretting that decision now.
LHR Rain is offline  

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