EK207 Jfk
Mmmbop, please have a look at your FCOM...
And even if you mean that ‘certain conditions’ is day/VMC, even then at night time it is not a Missed Approach: it is the EGPWS escape manoever: AP Off, Full backstick and TOGA. Nothing else.... and yes, it’s a CAUTION, but the procedure is the same as for a WARNING at night time.
MR8
And even if you mean that ‘certain conditions’ is day/VMC, even then at night time it is not a Missed Approach: it is the EGPWS escape manoever: AP Off, Full backstick and TOGA. Nothing else.... and yes, it’s a CAUTION, but the procedure is the same as for a WARNING at night time.
MR8
If you believe somehow that the EGPWS manoeuvre is required for the 'TOO LOW TERRAIN' Caution simply because it occurs at night, then it is you that needs to revisit the FCOM/QRH.
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To hear "too low terrain" at night on any kind of approach would give me serious concern.YOU CANT SEE THE GROUND that you might crash in to very soon, as you debate in your mind the appropriate response....Im very familiar with the various FCOM/QRH/FTCM standard responses, as I am a current TRE.I have rarely observed such childish arguments as I see here from Emirates pilots.If this is hos it is at this airline then it truly is quite bad.
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To hear "too low terrain" at night on any kind of approach would give me serious concern.YOU CANT SEE THE GROUND that you might crash in to very soon, as you debate in your mind the appropriate response....Im very familiar with the various FCOM/QRH/FTCM standard responses, as I am a current TRE.I have rarely observed such childish arguments as I see here from Emirates pilots.If this is hos it is at this airline then it truly is quite bad.
They don't call it a ENHANCED GROUND PROXIMITY WARNING SYSTEM for nothing.
As supposed professional pilots I hope we call all agree that when the airplane verbalizes something to you, then it time to act...NOW.
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Sad state of affairs indeed
Mmmbop & MM,
Quick last post.
I am not an active ‘ppruner’. I did make the mistake of thinking that when I read that someone has a misconception about a procedure, I could give them a quick pointer in the right direction. Procedures do change, and we are not always aware of the new ones. Before I post, I will make sure that I am posting correct info, so yes, I did consult the FCOM to make sure that what I’m saying is correct.
Now mmmbop, every professional adult would at least have a quick look at the documents when faced with an argument, just to make sure they are not telling BS. Since you keep defending your point, I can only conclude that you have no FCOM to look the procedure up, otherwise you would have either agreed with me, or if that is not your style, just shut up about it.. So you are either a wannabe or a troll, but you are for sure nowhere near a professional pilot.
I’m actually saddened by what was a good intention to make people aware of a recently changed procedure, turned into this sour sad discussion.
I don’t think I will be posting anything soon, it’s just not worth it...
MR8
Quick last post.
I am not an active ‘ppruner’. I did make the mistake of thinking that when I read that someone has a misconception about a procedure, I could give them a quick pointer in the right direction. Procedures do change, and we are not always aware of the new ones. Before I post, I will make sure that I am posting correct info, so yes, I did consult the FCOM to make sure that what I’m saying is correct.
Now mmmbop, every professional adult would at least have a quick look at the documents when faced with an argument, just to make sure they are not telling BS. Since you keep defending your point, I can only conclude that you have no FCOM to look the procedure up, otherwise you would have either agreed with me, or if that is not your style, just shut up about it.. So you are either a wannabe or a troll, but you are for sure nowhere near a professional pilot.
I’m actually saddened by what was a good intention to make people aware of a recently changed procedure, turned into this sour sad discussion.
I don’t think I will be posting anything soon, it’s just not worth it...
MR8
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There was a recent change in the A380 FCOM which states that if the TOO LOW TERRAIN caution occurs at night or in IMC, the GPWS escape maneuver is mandatory.
Yes, MR8, I did check my manuals before commenting. So you can shove your 'professional adult' and 'professional pilot' comments up your smug TRE butt. Your last post is very typical of the mindset - I'm always right, someone doesn't agree with me so I'm taking my bat and ball and running home. Bye bye, enjoy fondling your stars that are representative of a failing system.
Last edited by mmmbop; 19th Dec 2017 at 04:19.
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Aha. Thanks yardman. I mistakenly believed the policy regarding EGPWS manoeuvres would be the same whether it was Boeing or Airbus. My bad.
Yes, MR8, I did check my manuals before commenting. So you can shove your 'professional adult' and 'professional pilot' comments up your smug TRE butt. Your last post is very typical of the mindset - I'm always right, someone doesn't agree with me so I'm taking my bat and ball and running home. Bye bye, enjoy fondling your stars that are representative of a failing system.
Yes, MR8, I did check my manuals before commenting. So you can shove your 'professional adult' and 'professional pilot' comments up your smug TRE butt. Your last post is very typical of the mindset - I'm always right, someone doesn't agree with me so I'm taking my bat and ball and running home. Bye bye, enjoy fondling your stars that are representative of a failing system.
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It’s really good to see that CRM (Courtesy Respect Manners) is alive and well.
From reading all of the above, I wouldn’t hestitate to do the safest thing as there is no time to discuss with the other pilot any other options when that close to the ground (Aural Alerts while the Rad Alt is active).
Too much crossing the (t’s) and dotting the (i’s) above for me. Here I see a typical case of aviation today sadly, discussing systems and procedures when being a pilot and looking out the window would have been the best procedure to follow to prevent this incident.
New Years Resolution for this site should be that only positive discussion and feedback and admitting when you are wrong. If you are correct then put the point across in a way that ensures others understand you and leaves them no doubt. Having heated discussions tends to leave people like me to abandon reading a specific thread.
Have a good Crimbo and a SAFE and Happy New Year All.
J
From reading all of the above, I wouldn’t hestitate to do the safest thing as there is no time to discuss with the other pilot any other options when that close to the ground (Aural Alerts while the Rad Alt is active).
Too much crossing the (t’s) and dotting the (i’s) above for me. Here I see a typical case of aviation today sadly, discussing systems and procedures when being a pilot and looking out the window would have been the best procedure to follow to prevent this incident.
New Years Resolution for this site should be that only positive discussion and feedback and admitting when you are wrong. If you are correct then put the point across in a way that ensures others understand you and leaves them no doubt. Having heated discussions tends to leave people like me to abandon reading a specific thread.
Have a good Crimbo and a SAFE and Happy New Year All.
J
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Fully agree with you jack schidt...
A friend of mine told me a few days ago that after a line check that he has been debriefed by a TRE for asking the pilot monitoring to release the passsengers and not using the proper way that should have been " set the seat belt sign switch to auto " !!!
A friend of mine told me a few days ago that after a line check that he has been debriefed by a TRE for asking the pilot monitoring to release the passsengers and not using the proper way that should have been " set the seat belt sign switch to auto " !!!
short flights long nights
Fully agree with Jack. People seem to get a firm grip on the non essentials.
Seems to me essential things are....look out window...fly aircraft to stay away from ground, except when landing on runway.
Seems to me essential things are....look out window...fly aircraft to stay away from ground, except when landing on runway.
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Completely agree ^^
It is out of control. Reminds me of a recent PPC........ or this thread maybe. We have all forgotten the big picture and are more concerned with the finite details of the deepest darkest corner of FCOM or OM-A. It wouldn't have prevented this incident, mind you.
It is out of control. Reminds me of a recent PPC........ or this thread maybe. We have all forgotten the big picture and are more concerned with the finite details of the deepest darkest corner of FCOM or OM-A. It wouldn't have prevented this incident, mind you.
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Agree with you Jack. The atmosphere at EK is difficult enough at times without us turning on each other aswell, especially over something like this. A bit of positivity wouldn't go amiss!
Fully agree with you jack schidt...
A friend of mine told me a few days ago that after a line check that he has been debriefed by a TRE for asking the pilot monitoring to release the passsengers and not using the proper way that should have been " set the seat belt sign switch to auto " !!!
A friend of mine told me a few days ago that after a line check that he has been debriefed by a TRE for asking the pilot monitoring to release the passsengers and not using the proper way that should have been " set the seat belt sign switch to auto " !!!
"Turn on the coffee pot"
?
Fully agree with Jack. People seem to get a firm grip on the non essentials.
Seems to me essential things are....look out window...fly aircraft to stay away from ground, except when landing on runway.
Seems to me essential things are....look out window...fly aircraft to stay away from ground, except when landing on runway.
This mindset reminds me of the two 380 pilots/trainers diverting to LHR because a computer told them that 2800m of wet MAN runway wasn’t long enough to land on
“Release the hounds” these words were uttered by yours truly on my last line check.
Last edited by Monarch Man; 19th Dec 2017 at 09:54.
short flights long nights
Ahh,,,Common Sense...that commodity long thrown out the window (excuse the pun) by EK. They are now reaping what they have been sowing for a long time...because it sure looks like all those procedures and compliance with ever more confusing SOPS have not stopped the crews of two very large, very modern Jets, trying to land them a long way from an approved piece of concrete.
my request to turn the seat belt sign off used to be.."Release all Beasts".
my request to turn the seat belt sign off used to be.."Release all Beasts".
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Ahh,,,Common Sense...that commodity long thrown out the window (excuse the pun) by EK. They are now reaping what they have been sowing for a long time...because it sure looks like all those procedures and compliance with ever more confusing SOPS have not stopped the crews of two very large, very modern Jets, trying to land them a long way from an approved piece of concrete.
my request to turn the seat belt sign off used to be.."Release all Beasts".
my request to turn the seat belt sign off used to be.."Release all Beasts".
“Bitches & switches, doors & whores!”
DSTM 😉
Well I was trying to stay classy
A lot of technical excuses here!
Simply, it appears many present day pilots have not been taught, or SOP banned from pilot stuff.
Especially it seems in EK :- B777 DXB, you need to increase power from idle during a Go Around. Hands, Thrust levers??
Look out of the window on Carnarsie 13L/R Approach into JFK, its a visual approach??
I have done a few manual Go Arounds, and JFK 13/LR visuals. Its not that difficult, and should be part of your day to day repertoire.
For those unfamiliar, look at U Tube vids, its not even a very steep turn onto 13R.
Simply, it appears many present day pilots have not been taught, or SOP banned from pilot stuff.
Especially it seems in EK :- B777 DXB, you need to increase power from idle during a Go Around. Hands, Thrust levers??
Look out of the window on Carnarsie 13L/R Approach into JFK, its a visual approach??
I have done a few manual Go Arounds, and JFK 13/LR visuals. Its not that difficult, and should be part of your day to day repertoire.
For those unfamiliar, look at U Tube vids, its not even a very steep turn onto 13R.
Last edited by cessnapete; 19th Dec 2017 at 12:18.
Yes, and a well known eccentric captain of the ahem ‘old school’ used to say instead of the polite and pc ‘good start, clear to disconnect’, ‘f@ck off before I run you over...’
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To hear "too low terrain" at night on any kind of approach would give me serious concern.YOU CANT SEE THE GROUND that you might crash in to very soon, as you debate in your mind the appropriate response....Im very familiar with the various FCOM/QRH/FTCM standard responses, as I am a current TRE.I have rarely observed such childish arguments as I see here from Emirates pilots.If this is hos it is at this airline then it truly is quite bad.
On a 2-3 mile final on 13L at JFK, with 10 miles visibility, there are thousands and thousands of lights to tell you where the ground is.