UK Roadshows for EK
short flights long nights
lol777. Let me tell you a story. Up to when I decided to retire early from the industry in March this year, I was a 777 captain with EK.
Just so you know, I had been flying for 36 years and my last log book entry shows me as having just over 22000 hours, of those almost 7000 are in command of the 777 for EK.
I moved from a job I loved to go to EK. The only reason I did that was because the airline I had worked for, for 19 wonderful years was in Europe, and my family ( due to personal reasons) had moved back to Australia. It became harder and harder to fly from Eurpoe to home as a commuter.
I went for an interview at EK. They showed me rosters that had 10 days off in a row. They showed me a contract that involved 78 hours a month. They showed me a contract that said six weeks annual leave. They showed me how great the staff travel was.
So I went to EK. The first couple of years were as advertised. Then the GFC happened, and the cubicle dwellers got hard ons, as how,they could screw the pilot group and increase their bonus.
And let me tell you, they went to town. They had their own wet dream every night for years. They sat and watched their bank balance increase at the expense of those they were meant to support.
And at that point I should have left. But I hung in there..thinking it would get better. I didn't, it got worse.
Restricted days off, unable to get leave, management by fear. ( ASR...250 knots at 4900 feet)
I was in the lucky position to decide to get out early. I wish now I had done it a year ago.
I feel so much better, physically and mentally. I did not realise how much the punishing rosters of 92 hours a month, in all hours of the day and night, was taking a toll on my health. I realise that now.
I'm sure Harry the Cod will be back soon to say how wrong I am, and my inbox will be full of people saying to stop posting,
But .........
Regards SOPS
Just so you know, I had been flying for 36 years and my last log book entry shows me as having just over 22000 hours, of those almost 7000 are in command of the 777 for EK.
I moved from a job I loved to go to EK. The only reason I did that was because the airline I had worked for, for 19 wonderful years was in Europe, and my family ( due to personal reasons) had moved back to Australia. It became harder and harder to fly from Eurpoe to home as a commuter.
I went for an interview at EK. They showed me rosters that had 10 days off in a row. They showed me a contract that involved 78 hours a month. They showed me a contract that said six weeks annual leave. They showed me how great the staff travel was.
So I went to EK. The first couple of years were as advertised. Then the GFC happened, and the cubicle dwellers got hard ons, as how,they could screw the pilot group and increase their bonus.
And let me tell you, they went to town. They had their own wet dream every night for years. They sat and watched their bank balance increase at the expense of those they were meant to support.
And at that point I should have left. But I hung in there..thinking it would get better. I didn't, it got worse.
Restricted days off, unable to get leave, management by fear. ( ASR...250 knots at 4900 feet)
I was in the lucky position to decide to get out early. I wish now I had done it a year ago.
I feel so much better, physically and mentally. I did not realise how much the punishing rosters of 92 hours a month, in all hours of the day and night, was taking a toll on my health. I realise that now.
I'm sure Harry the Cod will be back soon to say how wrong I am, and my inbox will be full of people saying to stop posting,
But .........
Regards SOPS
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If you are single and have the option of taking unpaid leave from your existing employer and fancy a sabbatical, then by all means have a look but I would not resign from a job to come here and/or bring family.
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SOPS
Would hate to disappoint old chap, but on this occasion, I will.
I actually agree with your post. I've done slightly less time than yourself but nonetheless have endured a deteriorating quality of life since I joined. Whilst the airline industry in general has suffered the same slide in terms and conditions, the rub for me is the vast profits that are being made and demanded from this highly profitable Company. Unfortunately, this 'greed is good' culture perpetuates from the top down, manifested in huge bonuses for senior management, none of which are ever disclosed. There is no transparency and as such, we are directly at the mercy of those that will put their own financial gain ahead of those they manage and, quite possibly, the overall good of this Company. Very rarely will these senior managers leave EK for other Companies. This is their nirvana and an opportunity to top up pensions and quietly build their bank balances whilst stretching out a few more years of gainful employment. Whilst I do despair at times with the constant whinging and bleating on these forums, often it's from pilots who have joined an airline with a long term view. We, unlike some of our managers, have invested our time, family and career into Emirates and Dubai. It's not so easy to just up and leave as it would if we lived in our own Countries. This Company knows that. That's why we've had only a 0.5% pay rise in the last 3 years. Our increment steps are not pay rises and those with no steps to go will have little choice now but to wait until retirement or call it a day early. Nice way to care for you loyal staff your highness! Talk is cheap. To be honest, I'm tired of all the rhetoric and broken promises. I'm also tired of the constant propaganda and self promotion. Even the paying public are starting to read between the lines. If they spent more time and money investing in their core asset, the employees, instead of a plethora of sporting events, teams and buildings, the motivation and payback would be immeasurably improved. Pay them a good wage and treat them well, they will repay you in spades. I fear, however, that this 'dream' may well be too late.
When our DSVP can stand in front of several hundred trainers and have the audacity to say he 'loses no sleep over recruitment', what little respect I may have had has all but gone. At least our SVP training had the honesty and integrity to communicate the truth. One will be leaving later this year having topped up an already huge pension, the other has invested his time and personal money into Dubai and is looking long term. That to me sums up how wrong it is with the current remuneration and bonus package for senior managers. If he's losing no sleep over manpower issues, why are the pilots not getting their full entitlement to 42 days leave?
He may have thought there were 200 idiots in the room. In truth, there was only one.
So, for those that are thinking of joining, be very, very careful. Puff m'call offers wise advice. Ask as many questions as you need to and try to get as much in writing as you can. Visit here before you join and ask as many people you know about Emirates and Dubai. Whilst financially this is still a good choice, from a lifestyle perspective it may not be. It very much depends on your current contract and you own personal circumstances. Please, do not come here if you're financially secure and settled. This may not be the icing on the cake you think. At 47 degrees and 89% humidity, icing melts quick.
Enjoy your retirement SOPS. Give those dogs of yours a good walk....and a bloody long one too, for me!
Harry
Would hate to disappoint old chap, but on this occasion, I will.
I actually agree with your post. I've done slightly less time than yourself but nonetheless have endured a deteriorating quality of life since I joined. Whilst the airline industry in general has suffered the same slide in terms and conditions, the rub for me is the vast profits that are being made and demanded from this highly profitable Company. Unfortunately, this 'greed is good' culture perpetuates from the top down, manifested in huge bonuses for senior management, none of which are ever disclosed. There is no transparency and as such, we are directly at the mercy of those that will put their own financial gain ahead of those they manage and, quite possibly, the overall good of this Company. Very rarely will these senior managers leave EK for other Companies. This is their nirvana and an opportunity to top up pensions and quietly build their bank balances whilst stretching out a few more years of gainful employment. Whilst I do despair at times with the constant whinging and bleating on these forums, often it's from pilots who have joined an airline with a long term view. We, unlike some of our managers, have invested our time, family and career into Emirates and Dubai. It's not so easy to just up and leave as it would if we lived in our own Countries. This Company knows that. That's why we've had only a 0.5% pay rise in the last 3 years. Our increment steps are not pay rises and those with no steps to go will have little choice now but to wait until retirement or call it a day early. Nice way to care for you loyal staff your highness! Talk is cheap. To be honest, I'm tired of all the rhetoric and broken promises. I'm also tired of the constant propaganda and self promotion. Even the paying public are starting to read between the lines. If they spent more time and money investing in their core asset, the employees, instead of a plethora of sporting events, teams and buildings, the motivation and payback would be immeasurably improved. Pay them a good wage and treat them well, they will repay you in spades. I fear, however, that this 'dream' may well be too late.
When our DSVP can stand in front of several hundred trainers and have the audacity to say he 'loses no sleep over recruitment', what little respect I may have had has all but gone. At least our SVP training had the honesty and integrity to communicate the truth. One will be leaving later this year having topped up an already huge pension, the other has invested his time and personal money into Dubai and is looking long term. That to me sums up how wrong it is with the current remuneration and bonus package for senior managers. If he's losing no sleep over manpower issues, why are the pilots not getting their full entitlement to 42 days leave?
He may have thought there were 200 idiots in the room. In truth, there was only one.
So, for those that are thinking of joining, be very, very careful. Puff m'call offers wise advice. Ask as many questions as you need to and try to get as much in writing as you can. Visit here before you join and ask as many people you know about Emirates and Dubai. Whilst financially this is still a good choice, from a lifestyle perspective it may not be. It very much depends on your current contract and you own personal circumstances. Please, do not come here if you're financially secure and settled. This may not be the icing on the cake you think. At 47 degrees and 89% humidity, icing melts quick.
Enjoy your retirement SOPS. Give those dogs of yours a good walk....and a bloody long one too, for me!
Harry
Last edited by harry the cod; 9th Jun 2015 at 14:30. Reason: Spelling.....as usual!
short flights long nights
Harry, I have to say thanks. I will pay that one. I am now, at this minute sitting with my darling wife in front of the fire. The dogs, having been for a long walk about 3 hours ago, are asleep in front of it.
Everything you have just said is very very true.
But can I say just one thing. And it never happened to me...but as you know there is a constant fear factor in Ek, you are only as good as your last sector, bull
ASRS.,
Well I have to say, just having the " background" pressure removed from my life is amazing......
And I wont get into my 4 months with the Gnome. .o
Everything you have just said is very very true.
But can I say just one thing. And it never happened to me...but as you know there is a constant fear factor in Ek, you are only as good as your last sector, bull
ASRS., Well I have to say, just having the " background" pressure removed from my life is amazing......
And I wont get into my 4 months with the Gnome. .o
Last edited by SOPS; 10th Jun 2015 at 00:00.
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Two things. Firstly, whilst the reporting culture in this Company still has a long way to go before ever being truly 'Just', I still think that too many pilots create their own problems by either reporting stuff they don't need to or not reporting the stuff they should!
Secondly, My own experience of the doc you refer to has been nothing but exemplary. He was courteous, efficient and big picture. In fact, it was one of the easiest medicals done in EK. He may well have a reputation amongst many of our colleagues but I treat people as I find them. In my case, he did his job professionally.
Anyway, for you SOPS, he and the rest of this Company should be a distant memory. And getting more distant each day......ok!
Harry
Secondly, My own experience of the doc you refer to has been nothing but exemplary. He was courteous, efficient and big picture. In fact, it was one of the easiest medicals done in EK. He may well have a reputation amongst many of our colleagues but I treat people as I find them. In my case, he did his job professionally.
Anyway, for you SOPS, he and the rest of this Company should be a distant memory. And getting more distant each day......ok!
Harry
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Q400?
Hey guys,
Thanks for all this information and warnings. But nevertheless, being stuck on a turboprop also kind of sucks. No outlook even though flying through Europe on scheduled flights to many major airports, a Q400 remains a turboprop and most of the airlines are not accepting turboprop hours (for whatever reason)
Does anybody know, if Emirates is accepting pilots with more than 2000h on the Q400 (or ATR) or if they start to consider them in the near future due to the lack of pilots?
Thanks for your replies!
Cheers
Thanks for all this information and warnings. But nevertheless, being stuck on a turboprop also kind of sucks. No outlook even though flying through Europe on scheduled flights to many major airports, a Q400 remains a turboprop and most of the airlines are not accepting turboprop hours (for whatever reason)
Does anybody know, if Emirates is accepting pilots with more than 2000h on the Q400 (or ATR) or if they start to consider them in the near future due to the lack of pilots?
Thanks for your replies!
Cheers
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No turboprop Rule is to avoid having to do Base training on the actual aircraft. It might change one day, who knows...
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No turboprop Rule is to avoid having to do Base training on the actual aircraft. It might change one day, who knows...
Interesting. Makes even sense, somehow...
But what are the requirements for a ZFTT? As far as I know, a candidate must have a certain experience level on a multi-pilot turbo-jet or multi-pilot turboprop with a MTOW >10t and a least 19 PAX seats in order to qualify for ZFTT.
Or does it really matter if a candidate operates a CRJ200 with a MTOW 24t or a Q400 with a MTOW 29t and more PAX seats?
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Drohmster really hate to burst your bubble but do you think sitting in an A330 on yet another night turn to the sub-continent is any better.
Oh but there is the B777 you say well, it looks like the 777 is going to slowly become the new 330 fleet as it picks up the 330 routes.
At the end of the day it is just another piece of tin pushing through the sky paying some sort of salary.
It is quality of life that counts, and if Dubai was that good people wouldn't be leaving. Simples.
Oh but there is the B777 you say well, it looks like the 777 is going to slowly become the new 330 fleet as it picks up the 330 routes.
At the end of the day it is just another piece of tin pushing through the sky paying some sort of salary.
It is quality of life that counts, and if Dubai was that good people wouldn't be leaving. Simples.
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Drohmster,
Unfortunately turbo-jet transport only for now...
Pilots undertaking ZFTT shall have not less than 500 hours flight time or 100 route sectors on a relevant type.
A relevant type of aeroplane is a turbo-jet, transport category aeroplane with a MTOW of not less than 10 tons or an approved passenger seating configuration for not less than 20 passengers.
Unfortunately turbo-jet transport only for now...
Pilots undertaking ZFTT shall have not less than 500 hours flight time or 100 route sectors on a relevant type.
A relevant type of aeroplane is a turbo-jet, transport category aeroplane with a MTOW of not less than 10 tons or an approved passenger seating configuration for not less than 20 passengers.
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Thanks for the Info EK380.
I personally think it's ridiculous, but those are the rules.
Of course, acceptance of ZFTT is also subject to the local authorities and the company. But I know, that guys joining flydubai are allowed to do ZFTT on the transition from the Q400 to the 738, so I thought that might also apply to EK.
It basically means at EK, 500h on Dornier 328-100 No-go, 500h on Dornier 328-300JET welcome...???
I personally think it's ridiculous, but those are the rules.
Of course, acceptance of ZFTT is also subject to the local authorities and the company. But I know, that guys joining flydubai are allowed to do ZFTT on the transition from the Q400 to the 738, so I thought that might also apply to EK.
It basically means at EK, 500h on Dornier 328-100 No-go, 500h on Dornier 328-300JET welcome...???
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UK Roadshows for EK
Makes sense what you guys are saying. Do basically problem will not be fixed by getting more crew. Or Enough crew. Cause basically it will never happen. As they join the rest of all the other crap are making others leave and so the problem will continue forever.
I thank the guys with good answers. I'm looking at moving from where I am. And we don't know exactly what you are going through there and I am trying to get the best picture of what if and how.
So by the way snotty answers won't help your case or make it better or help anyone trying to get info about life and work there. Just makes you look like you are complaining with a iPad under the arm. But thanks again for the good and and reasonable explanations. And good luck to all. Hope it does get better for everyone hating it there.
I thank the guys with good answers. I'm looking at moving from where I am. And we don't know exactly what you are going through there and I am trying to get the best picture of what if and how.
So by the way snotty answers won't help your case or make it better or help anyone trying to get info about life and work there. Just makes you look like you are complaining with a iPad under the arm. But thanks again for the good and and reasonable explanations. And good luck to all. Hope it does get better for everyone hating it there.
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UK Roadshows for EK
Sorry for the mistakes in post. Bloody predictive text. I know about the mistakes after reading what i just posted so dont waste you time by telling me. Lol.
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I am now into single digits as to the days I have left, and I joined with all the wide eyed optimism of the promise of a great job, ok location and a few things more besides.
Fast forward a bit and it became apparent that management had no intention of viewing staff as an asset, the organisational culture is toxic, the people who could make a difference chose the path of self-interest and arrogance over engagement and inclusiveness, they have created a a bubble of denial and self congratulation.
Still sound appealing? perhaps 900hrs a year of long haul/short haul, minimal leave, punitive management and of course untouchable individuals making daft policy decisions based on nothing in particular may make appealing sound more like appalling.
Less than 10 days and counting for me.
Go along to a roadshow, but ask the questions about leave, days off, rostering restrictions and the rate that people are leaving. Don't accept wishy washy answers either.
Fast forward a bit and it became apparent that management had no intention of viewing staff as an asset, the organisational culture is toxic, the people who could make a difference chose the path of self-interest and arrogance over engagement and inclusiveness, they have created a a bubble of denial and self congratulation.
Still sound appealing? perhaps 900hrs a year of long haul/short haul, minimal leave, punitive management and of course untouchable individuals making daft policy decisions based on nothing in particular may make appealing sound more like appalling.
Less than 10 days and counting for me.
Go along to a roadshow, but ask the questions about leave, days off, rostering restrictions and the rate that people are leaving. Don't accept wishy washy answers either.
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No point in asking questions, you'll only be fed bull****. It it ain't in black and white it don't exist.
Not just an Emirates thing, standard recruitment bull shizer
Not just an Emirates thing, standard recruitment bull shizer
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Basically the recruitment team will try and tell you that Dubai is a great place to live and Ek probably the best gig in town etc etc etc.
It's only once you get here that you will find that even though its highly polished it is still a turd.
I'm sure that the road shows for China etc are much the same.
It's only once you get here that you will find that even though its highly polished it is still a turd.
I'm sure that the road shows for China etc are much the same.
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The company really do not care about who leaves or stays or comes so long as their schedule flies and their expansion plans go ahead.
That is not really any different to any other carrier. However, EK used to be a career airline, like the legacy carriers in the US and Europe. There are still guys who have been in the pit from close to the start up in '85. Their numbers are obviously dwindling but the guys who were in the 2nd pick up are now leaving earlier. Not due to having bulging pension pots but because the schedules are not pleasant or sustainable in the long term.
Basically a 5 year or so life span on the current roster pattern looks to be about it before exhaustion and loss of life quality takes its toll.
To put that into a 40 year flying career it doesn't sound much but think about leaving where you are and then looking for somewhere else in 5 years. You may not have a widebody command under your belt due to unforeseen issues, sickness, warning letter, etc.
How would 5 years or so flying big jets in the pit knock onto your current career path, marriage ? That is a question for the individual to answer but it's one you need to ask yourselves before committing.
Everyone has their own priorities its just that the company's , any company's, are NOT the same as yours.
That is not really any different to any other carrier. However, EK used to be a career airline, like the legacy carriers in the US and Europe. There are still guys who have been in the pit from close to the start up in '85. Their numbers are obviously dwindling but the guys who were in the 2nd pick up are now leaving earlier. Not due to having bulging pension pots but because the schedules are not pleasant or sustainable in the long term.
Basically a 5 year or so life span on the current roster pattern looks to be about it before exhaustion and loss of life quality takes its toll.
To put that into a 40 year flying career it doesn't sound much but think about leaving where you are and then looking for somewhere else in 5 years. You may not have a widebody command under your belt due to unforeseen issues, sickness, warning letter, etc.
How would 5 years or so flying big jets in the pit knock onto your current career path, marriage ? That is a question for the individual to answer but it's one you need to ask yourselves before committing.
Everyone has their own priorities its just that the company's , any company's, are NOT the same as yours.
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Everyone has their own priorities its just that the company's , any company's, are NOT the same as yours.
Of course, there are companies (managers) which (who) understand that there is no future without taking care of their employees. There are also companies which have plans for the future.
Companies should not be enemies to their staff (like it sounds from your post). It's an insane managerial strategy and not all companies (managers) behave like that. Just the insane ones.