Wall Street Journal article on EK crewing problem.
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AAR says he wants to open a channel of communication but most seem reluctant to use his form. Why is this? Fear of jeopardy and intimidation, belief he won't read it?
If we assume the senior management really wants feedback, what can the company do to get feedback? What about a drop box in briefing where the flight docs are put in with the ability to drop a letter directly to a senior manager? Can you think of a better way?
If we assume the senior management really wants feedback, what can the company do to get feedback? What about a drop box in briefing where the flight docs are put in with the ability to drop a letter directly to a senior manager? Can you think of a better way?
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Positive stability,
I have indeed read that proposal for amendment, however, for now the rules I posted are still in effect as far as I can tell. Do you have any idea if that amendment has been approved and if so, when it will be applied? If that comes in to force, we are well and truly
Smile and wave...
I have indeed read that proposal for amendment, however, for now the rules I posted are still in effect as far as I can tell. Do you have any idea if that amendment has been approved and if so, when it will be applied? If that comes in to force, we are well and truly
Smile and wave...
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harry and BYMONEK
You can cut off the lecturing and assuming:
Been there, done that, didn't work
I am all for filing reports, i actually encourage us to do so, but keep everything factual to be able to sign it. Some stuff even helps.
But to believe that anything can be maintained confidential in these regions is, i am sorry again, blatantly naive.
To me the very nature of Confidential Reports is not suited and thus oblivious for this kind of government/management.
You can cut off the lecturing and assuming:
Been there, done that, didn't work
I am all for filing reports, i actually encourage us to do so, but keep everything factual to be able to sign it. Some stuff even helps.
But to believe that anything can be maintained confidential in these regions is, i am sorry again, blatantly naive.
To me the very nature of Confidential Reports is not suited and thus oblivious for this kind of government/management.
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glofish
It's certainly not my intention to lecture. We all have our opinions and are free to voice them, at least for now anyway. Neither am I trying to convince you or others that you should place faith in the system. You're either going to trust it or you're not and nothing that AAR, AS, STC or your best friends maid will convince you otherwise. I'm merely trying to think of a process that's as near as possible to voicing concerns without fear of repercussions.
ekwhistleblower
Good idea, can the Confidential Safety Report drop box not count as a starter?
falconeasydriver
Yes, valid points and concerns. I'd like to think that if indeed pressure was to be brought upon the facilitator, though I sincerely doubt it would, the reporters details would unfortunately get mislaid!
The facilitator would then no doubt resign and it wouldn't be too long before the truth unfolded.
It's certainly not my intention to lecture. We all have our opinions and are free to voice them, at least for now anyway. Neither am I trying to convince you or others that you should place faith in the system. You're either going to trust it or you're not and nothing that AAR, AS, STC or your best friends maid will convince you otherwise. I'm merely trying to think of a process that's as near as possible to voicing concerns without fear of repercussions.
ekwhistleblower
Good idea, can the Confidential Safety Report drop box not count as a starter?
falconeasydriver
Yes, valid points and concerns. I'd like to think that if indeed pressure was to be brought upon the facilitator, though I sincerely doubt it would, the reporters details would unfortunately get mislaid!
The facilitator would then no doubt resign and it wouldn't be too long before the truth unfolded.
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..as someone who works with the CSR facilitator, I know with absolute certainty that there is ZERO chance of any confidentiality being betrayed (unless the reporter chooses to do so-as has happened before in the 'alleged leak'). The secure processes are in place, all you have to do is make the effort to report, no cojones required.
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In my time at EK pilots were intimidated with guns during interviews by Head of Security and evidence acquired through phone tapping was used against pilots.
As i understand it Dubai inc is still the same family business that it was when I was there, so unless something has changed that I'm not aware of, I would treat any committment to confidentiality by EK management as a fairy tale.
As i understand it Dubai inc is still the same family business that it was when I was there, so unless something has changed that I'm not aware of, I would treat any committment to confidentiality by EK management as a fairy tale.
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Nikita81
While you have had the vote of confidence from many on here, I don't support your efforts at trying to hijack a serious issue such as the one we're discussing. The reporting system we're referring to is unlike anything that would have been in place for yourself when you were employed here. I, like many, will have empathy with your frustration and the appalling way you were treated and have given you that support by various means on these forums. This is a public forum and you've just as much right as anyone to post.
However, you know nothing about this particular process. You know nothing of the facilitator nor how the reports are submitted and to whom. You also, I suspect, know nothing about their outcomes. Until you do may I kindly ask you to refrain from posting less than helpful comments or images. Many people have put considerable time and effort over many years to slowly build up this tentative trust and do not want to see what little trust there is ruined by uneducated and ignorant viewpoints. You of all people should know that the stronger the voice, the more likely it is to be heard. That's what we're trying to achieve.
If a few more of your own colleagues had been prepared to stand shoulder to shoulder with you, I doubt you'd even have heard of PPRune.
While you have had the vote of confidence from many on here, I don't support your efforts at trying to hijack a serious issue such as the one we're discussing. The reporting system we're referring to is unlike anything that would have been in place for yourself when you were employed here. I, like many, will have empathy with your frustration and the appalling way you were treated and have given you that support by various means on these forums. This is a public forum and you've just as much right as anyone to post.
However, you know nothing about this particular process. You know nothing of the facilitator nor how the reports are submitted and to whom. You also, I suspect, know nothing about their outcomes. Until you do may I kindly ask you to refrain from posting less than helpful comments or images. Many people have put considerable time and effort over many years to slowly build up this tentative trust and do not want to see what little trust there is ruined by uneducated and ignorant viewpoints. You of all people should know that the stronger the voice, the more likely it is to be heard. That's what we're trying to achieve.
If a few more of your own colleagues had been prepared to stand shoulder to shoulder with you, I doubt you'd even have heard of PPRune.
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I am sorry Bymonek, I wasn't aware that you are trying to "achieve something" on a rumor Internet forum. Maybe this is why you are unsuccessful in your efforts? After all this is just a forum and after all you are taking it too seriously probably because you ignore real life actions that you can do.
On the other hand, you don't know whether I am ignorant on this subject or just avoid to comment it directly in respect towards people who do know more than me, and I choose to give just side comments in support of your viewpoints regarding confidentiality.
You were my colleague and I didn't see you standing shoulder to shoulder with me. Maybe because you have so much more to lose (including your much bigger salary) and I didn't ask you to do it, but I am not the guilty one for your sense of lack of dignity. Just a girl on a forum.
I don't read comments I am not interested in. I advise you the same.
These issues should be discussed somewhere else. In real life with relevant people. Interesting to read though. I use this forum as a source of information. And that is all that one website can ever be (forums even less). You said it yourself - I would never heard about it if it wasn't... Just my two cents.
On the other hand, you don't know whether I am ignorant on this subject or just avoid to comment it directly in respect towards people who do know more than me, and I choose to give just side comments in support of your viewpoints regarding confidentiality.
You were my colleague and I didn't see you standing shoulder to shoulder with me. Maybe because you have so much more to lose (including your much bigger salary) and I didn't ask you to do it, but I am not the guilty one for your sense of lack of dignity. Just a girl on a forum.
I don't read comments I am not interested in. I advise you the same.
These issues should be discussed somewhere else. In real life with relevant people. Interesting to read though. I use this forum as a source of information. And that is all that one website can ever be (forums even less). You said it yourself - I would never heard about it if it wasn't... Just my two cents.
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BYMONEK:
1) "trying to hijack a serious issue such as the one we're discussing". Newsflash, chum. There are no serious issues here, this is a circus.
2) "Until you do may I kindly ask you to refrain from posting less than helpful comments or images"... blah, blah, blah. That reads as though it was penned by one of our managers.
4) The lady posted a funny cartoon, get over yourself.
3) If you want to be the judge of content on this forum, get a job as a moderator.
5) You don't get to call the lady's viewpoints as "uneducated and ignorant".
In short; wind your neck in.
Carry on, Nikita.
1) "trying to hijack a serious issue such as the one we're discussing". Newsflash, chum. There are no serious issues here, this is a circus.
2) "Until you do may I kindly ask you to refrain from posting less than helpful comments or images"... blah, blah, blah. That reads as though it was penned by one of our managers.
4) The lady posted a funny cartoon, get over yourself.
3) If you want to be the judge of content on this forum, get a job as a moderator.
5) You don't get to call the lady's viewpoints as "uneducated and ignorant".
In short; wind your neck in.
Carry on, Nikita.
So.... Nikita thinks anything posted here is unimportant and doesn't need to be accurate or taken seriously?
Interesting that she uses it as a vehicle to publicise her OWN plight, and gets very techy when her viewpoint is challenged.
The confidential reporting system IS a very good tool, and is well administrated.
Interesting that she uses it as a vehicle to publicise her OWN plight, and gets very techy when her viewpoint is challenged.
The confidential reporting system IS a very good tool, and is well administrated.
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So.... Nikita thinks anything posted here is unimportant and doesn't need to be accurate or taken seriously?
You ban me, kick me off topics and sometimes say negative things on my "whining", yet I am still here. It means something.
Carry on, I will not bother you in your boys' club (much
).Edit: fyi only, Mr.Rory from WSJ and me are communicating from the very first blog post of mine, so I do know how hard was it for him to publish the story on your case.
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I am sorry Bymonek, I wasn't aware that you are trying to "achieve something" on a rumor Internet forum.
...Interesting to read though. I use this forum as a source of information.
Show some sensitivity at least for yourself if you find it difficult for others.
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Nikita81
Probably trying to achieve the same things you are but hopefully with more success. At least I'm still gainfully employed at this stage. The reports do get read by 'real' people, which is why I'm suggesting this as a format to respond to management. If you do genuinely know how the system works, please tell us. I'll then happily take Snake man's advice and wind my neck in.
But until then, and while emotions still blur facts, i'll carry on too.
Probably trying to achieve the same things you are but hopefully with more success. At least I'm still gainfully employed at this stage. The reports do get read by 'real' people, which is why I'm suggesting this as a format to respond to management. If you do genuinely know how the system works, please tell us. I'll then happily take Snake man's advice and wind my neck in.
But until then, and while emotions still blur facts, i'll carry on too.
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Okay, if Nikita isn't "allowed" to comment because she (maybe) doesn't know how the Confidential(?) Reporting System works I'll chip in. I do know how it is supposed to work.
I want to believe in it as well. I have a small niece who wants to believe in unicorns and fairies at the bottom off garden but if she is wrong about those things it won't affect her career.
Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. I have so little confidence left in our management I don't intend to be the one who finds out the hard way that the company definition of confidential is different to mine. I suspect a lot of people think the same way I do. So I'll continue to keep quiet and keep my head down as much as possible unless something really needs to be said (and yes, I have put in fatigue ASRs in the past, and complained about the noise in the A380 CRC when screaming babies have kept me awake for hours).
Nikita has more guts than 90% of the people on here and I really hope she keeps posting.
I want to believe in it as well. I have a small niece who wants to believe in unicorns and fairies at the bottom off garden but if she is wrong about those things it won't affect her career.
Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. I have so little confidence left in our management I don't intend to be the one who finds out the hard way that the company definition of confidential is different to mine. I suspect a lot of people think the same way I do. So I'll continue to keep quiet and keep my head down as much as possible unless something really needs to be said (and yes, I have put in fatigue ASRs in the past, and complained about the noise in the A380 CRC when screaming babies have kept me awake for hours).
Nikita has more guts than 90% of the people on here and I really hope she keeps posting.
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Well spoken, BigGeordie.
BYMONEK:
1)"Probably trying to achieve the same things you are but hopefully with more success." I would suggest not. She has spoken with a reporter from the WSJ. Have you?
2) "At least I'm still gainfully employed at this stage." Pure spite. Shame on you, and quite frankly, you have no idea whether the lady is presently employed or not.
3) "I'll then happily take Snake man's advice and wind my neck in." Best idea you've had in years. Do it.
Carry on, Nikita
BYMONEK:
1)"Probably trying to achieve the same things you are but hopefully with more success." I would suggest not. She has spoken with a reporter from the WSJ. Have you?
2) "At least I'm still gainfully employed at this stage." Pure spite. Shame on you, and quite frankly, you have no idea whether the lady is presently employed or not.
3) "I'll then happily take Snake man's advice and wind my neck in." Best idea you've had in years. Do it.
Carry on, Nikita
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Nikita81
Probably trying to achieve the same things you are but hopefully with more success.
Probably trying to achieve the same things you are but hopefully with more success.
There is only one way for you to check if the system is confidential. Writing on PPRuNE and mocking me for not having a job (that's just a low blow) are not that way.