Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Middle East
Reload this Page >

Asiana 777 crash at KSFO

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Asiana 777 crash at KSFO

Old 6th Jul 2013, 20:31
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: My imagination
Posts: 31
Asiana 777 crash at KSFO

Asiana just crashed a 777 at San Fran!

Last edited by supatiger; 6th Jul 2013 at 20:33.
supatiger is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:23
  #2 (permalink)  
sheiken around
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
We are all are wishing the very best for the pax and crew of this accident...but, just wait for it...all of the 777/"widebodied" heroes are sleeping now. When they awake from their slumber, we'll all be bombarded with their "knowledgeable" assessment of what occurred.
Us normal people involved in aviation wish only the best to the pax and crew of this flight...and hope that as many souls as possible were saved.

Last edited by sheiken around; 6th Jul 2013 at 21:53.
 
Old 6th Jul 2013, 21:52
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 50
Posts: 329
EK 225 diverted to SEA. The company thinks they are going to take off in 90 mins. Asiana wreckage is still on the runway and will be for another 2 days.
Captains discretion at its worst.
cerbus is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2013, 22:18
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: LONDON
Posts: 17
Did this flight divert back into DXB this morning?
AQUAPLANE1 is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 02:16
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 1,007
Cerbus,

"Let he who hath no sin...."

f.
fliion is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 07:51
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: 'Merica
Posts: 47
Witnesses reported seeing the plane abnormally nose high. Passengers reported feeling a distinct shuddering before impact and, for what its worth, flight aware reported airspeed of 85 knots at 200 feet. I hope that last one is a mistake.
mooseknuckles is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 08:28
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: in a change
Posts: 10
Any similarities with the Ba 38 accident at Lhr airport back to 2008 ?

Last edited by Tears for Fears; 7th Jul 2013 at 08:31.
Tears for Fears is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 08:46
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,292
It sounds to me it has more in common with the Turkish 737 crash at AMS than than BA38- details of the approach parameters are on the main thread in Rumours and News- speed allowed to decay late in the approach- 85kts at 120'!!

Sounding to me like no Auto-throttle and a lack of ability to fly without it.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 09:04
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Here and there
Age: 8
Posts: 53
I think Wiz may be on the mark. I also think FLVLCH and 'Hold' on the FMA is a reasonable chance........
fringhtok is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 09:29
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 544
I don't like to speculate on causes of a crash until the preliminary fndings or substantial evidence is present.

However, there is a lot of discussion on other threads about the 'threat' of the Autothrottle potentially having no wake-up mode when using FLCH or V/S on a visual approach using the autopilot.

Is it just me who finds the idea of using V/S or FLCH in the last 500' of a visual approach absurd? Would any posters on here really do this?

What happened to reverting the most appropriate level of automation? For me A/P and F/Ds off with the PMs back on and fly the airplane. Seemed to work in the past.
Mr Good Cat is online now  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 10:03
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Post-Pit and Lovin' It.
Posts: 842
Yeah we wouldn't want any speculation on a website with "Rumour Network" in its title, would we.

ILS 28L GP is Notam-ed U/S for the period.

Methinks they armed the APP instead of LOC, either accidentally or intentionally, and followed an either non-existent or falsely transmitting G/S. Then when they looked around and realized that perhaps being at 10ft radio altitude at 400 metres from the threshold wasn't the best plan, found it too late to recover.

Would be very interested in the cultural makeup of the crew.
nolimitholdem is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 10:27
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,292
By the way, why aren't you trainers teaching the FOs about A/T HOLD prior to their upgrades? IE one would think FO transition training might be the time to teach it.
I for one do so at every opportunity- I think it's a big hole in the AFDS logic of the aircraft.

It is included in the type course, but not sufficiently emphasized nor recurrently trained IMHO.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 10:33
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,292
However, there is a lot of discussion on other threads about the 'threat' of the Autothrottle potentially having no wake-up mode when using FLCH or V/S on a visual approach using the autopilot.

Is it just me who finds the idea of using V/S or FLCH in the last 500' of a visual approach absurd? Would any posters on here really do this?
Not having a go at you, Mr GC, but this is a good example of the fact that knowledge of the AFDS is lacking in otherwise competent guys, and yes, that is a failing of the training department and needs addressing.

A/T wake up IS available in V/S, as the A/T is in SPD mode.

The times it is not available is when the A/T is in HOLD, which is a few seconds after the thrust is at idle in FLCH and VNAV SPD.

As to use of those modes on approach, you really have to spend some time with an Asian carrier to get a grasp of what dependence on Automation is really like.

Last edited by Wizofoz; 7th Jul 2013 at 10:34.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 10:49
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: i'm in the parking lot
Posts: 239
SFO Crash....meet phase 6.
The Turtle is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 12:11
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 846
Without speculating as to the cause of this accident those of us who were brought up on types like B707 and B737-200 had a good scan which we never lost even when we went on to the likes of Airbus A340 or B777.

Those of us operating for UK Charter outfits doing visuals came second nature into places like Iraklion, Kos, Corfu at night and places like Samos, Mikonos, Funchal etc during the day

We had to hand fly those approaches with no Autothrust. The only time I used Autothrust on a manual approach was into Kai Tak on B767 whilst in the turn onto R/W 13.

I noticed when in SQ that F/O's would never do a visual into say Bali when I suggested it in to R/W 27 to save time even with all the gizmos of extended C/L and with an ILS as a back up and as for taking out the autothrust they would never do that even though radar send you downwind on the F/O's side so runway in sight all the time.

The modern breed of computer nerds entering the flight deck is a cause for concern and the worrying lack of airmanship is all too evident.
millerscourt is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 14:35
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,789
If FLCH were selected with a go-around altitude or otherwise set in the MCP, wouldn't the airplane commence a climb to that level? (ala 767)

The modern breed of computer nerds entering the flight deck is a cause for concern and the worrying lack of airmanship is all too evident.

Very true Millers...however this maybe brought on in part by airlines' hammering crews for even the slightest instability on an approach, so they tend to just "get 'er down, lock on the automatics, and drag 'er in"...especially at the end of a long duty

Last edited by ironbutt57; 7th Jul 2013 at 14:39.
ironbutt57 is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 16:08
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,876
Aw bless, its good to see they woke up.

The Don
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 21:34
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Monrovia / Liberia
Age: 58
Posts: 730
The fact that some airlines have to bring their crews into the simulator in order to have them conduct manual handling exercises, speaks volumes !
Old King Coal is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2013, 22:02
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 683
Just had a listen to the NTSB admin lady give out the details of the CVR and FDR. It would appear that they lost airspeed, failed to recover that airspeed, called to GA, and then impacted shortly after.
Engines were responding normally, the aircraft was configured normally, the crew accepted a visual approach.
I know what I think most likely happened.
I wonder if the crew flew with their hands on the thrust levers? I wonder if the crew ever operated into airports with NDB's and VOR's, I wonder if the crew had any GA experience? I wonder, I wonder, I wonder...
I then think to myself, how many guys do I fly with who would struggle to maintain S/L without a FD or AT.
Be careful out there people, and remember we fly a big C172, it does all the same things.

Last edited by falconeasydriver; 7th Jul 2013 at 22:02.
falconeasydriver is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2013, 06:16
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Transition Altitude
Posts: 31
Here's a video that was on CNN

Video shows plane's moment of impact - CNN.com Video
Atebis is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.