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The latest from the Worlds "5 Star" Airline...

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The latest from the Worlds "5 Star" Airline...

Old 7th Apr 2011, 22:25
  #1 (permalink)  
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The latest from the Worlds "5 Star" Airline...

So, I can deal with promises of pay raises that will never happen, rumors of fleet xfers that are "just around the corner", promises of consecutive days OFF that will be awarded "as soon as the new system is in place", I can even deal with quasi legal DEL turn arounds at 2AM which are already pre-planned to go into discretion and 3 nights in a row...

But when I see this new Jacket policy (In our operations manual non the less!!!) I am convinced that these issues are not because of the difficulties involved in running a "5 Star" operation but simply the petty doings of a pathetic, insecure and probably abused as a child Arab wanna-be who wants to be noticed...But blaming just Ali B isn't fair, we also have to look at his new band of lackeys (Yes Nanto, I'm calling you and your band of wash outs out)

What kind of second hand Flight Ops team allows this to happen when they have ALL been on the line at some point with us? When they have ALL operated in summer conditions in the middle east along side us? Are your jobs really so simple and useless that your biggest worries are what we take to our Dry cleaning and who to give warning letters this week if they are not wearing their jackets? Gentlemen you are simply astonishing in your level of pathetic devotion to your own selves to send the rest of the 1500++ pilots in this company "under the bus" and literally aid in the constant degradation of moral in this company...And even with no personal gain to your selves other than a "Pat on the back" from the angry midget!

I have been angry at this company, dumbfounded by its policy's, but this one is simply insulting and serves no operational purpose...And I can tell you right now if this is the future I have to look forward to here in the worlds "5 Star" Airline...I promise you, count on one more open seat on your flight decks and one more STBY being called out, I am grateful that I can say I have choice to be here and not a need...You have no loyalty towards us, I will make sure you receive the same from me.
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Old 8th Apr 2011, 13:04
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: middleast
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I have been told that this non sense rule comes from the Top(CEO).
IF its the case,i can guarantee you (despite your S.O.S. call..), that NOBODY,i say again again NOBODY amongst our management team(unless there is somebody who is more concern about the pilot's welfare rather than his position..) will dare to move his little finger and do something against it!

Last edited by loc22550; 8th Apr 2011 at 13:15.
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Old 8th Apr 2011, 14:10
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 187
If it's too hot outside report sick, as you would be unable to perform your duties in a safe manner. Simple really.
Che Xindamail is offline  
Old 8th Apr 2011, 16:34
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Planet Earth
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Grrr Stop Press!!!!!!!!!!!!

Next Crew ACN,

Flight Deck Crew are required while in public view and during their walkaround to wear Jacket, hat, winter coat and on top the winter high vis jacket.
this ACN is with immediate effect pilots found in breach of this rule will be considered as serious misconduct and diciplinary actions will follow.

all QR Management magnificent Team

Imo the only pride left to this folks is a massive resignation I'm sure the company will be better off as they are completely useless the Titanic is taking water resignations are all time record high and they are acting like they are running the show full of BS.
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Old 8th Apr 2011, 17:04
  #5 (permalink)  
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Your right Loc, and that's what I want to point out, that the poor excuse of a Chief Pilot Fleets is nothing but a dog rolling over to keep getting his treat...Must be nice when you are the only guy in the company that has guaranteed days off every month to go back home...Dignity and self respect are obviously not int he job description...

Resignation letters/Emails will keep piling up, morale will keep falling, and the CEO and management group will reap what they sow when all the other big players keep expanding while Qatar airways will be scrapping the bottom of flight schools to try and put a warm body in the seats of their aircraft.
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Old 8th Apr 2011, 17:47
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
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The jacket policy is in Part A, and it is not applicable only to the flight deck crew - it is also mandatory for cabin crew to wear jackets all the time now. So why aren't they wearing them too?
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Old 8th Apr 2011, 20:08
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2005
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There is Airline Specific Private Forums you could set one up...
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Old 8th Apr 2011, 20:30
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Motown
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I support the idea 100, let me know the details. Plus do not work on days off, dont extend duty, and this applies to you too D.V..Even if the widebody guys dont support us, grounding 31 A/C would put a dent in the operation. Guys dont sell your sould with the wideboy carrot, if all the North African leaders can fall, well maybe our conditions will Improve.
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Old 8th Apr 2011, 22:14
  #9 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Strikes and any kind of disruptive behaviour are almost certainly against the local law so be careful what you wish for.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 04:21
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 45
Guys ... just LEAVE

It took me a few years of worrying and waiting and talking about it in the cruise before I finally had enough and quit, it was the best thing I ever did. There is soooo many better jobs out there. I am getting same money as QR on contract in the far east, for half as much work and 0.0001% as much hassle and aggravation from the airline. No more feeling permanently tired and pissed off. No more night turn arounds to subcontinent, no more trying to sleep all day in AKG before next night flight, no more fake-smile from the cabin crew while they give me plastic cutlery and metal dogfood trays, no more "its not allowed captain", no more joke corrupt rostering, bla bla bla. Every time I even think about my time in QR it honestly feels like I was released from a jail.

You won't achieve anything by going on "strike" or mass sick day or whatever you want to call it. The pilot group is too fragmented and weak, and full of people with their own agenda. Some ass licker from you-know-what nationality (the one that thinks the only way to advance their own position is to report and backstab all others around them) will go running to the small man to make a report on whoever is organizing this thing before it even starts, and then they will be in Qatari jail or next flight home if they're lucky.

People talk and talk about it but that place will never change except for the worst, as long as AAB is alive and in charge. It's such a shame because there are some really good guys there who are completely powerless to improve the situation. Maybe I will re apply to come back the day I hear the small man has been run down by a landcruiser or sucked into a jet engine, until then MASALAMA
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 05:33
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: middleast
Posts: 1,236
Back the "jacket" issue..for me the only place i should put my jacket accordingthe ACN is...inside an Hotel and inside airport terminal!(usually those places have air conditioning).Why because those are the only two places basically where i'm "in public" as mentioned by ACN!!("Whilst in public")
Why should i put it by 50 degrees while doing intra gulf sector as i will never be in public!
IS the crew bus a public place:NO.
IS the Airport Apron a public place :NO
IS Doha Dispatch/parking area...a public place :NO
Is the Cockpit a public place :NO
Interpret the way you like guys..but for me turnaround during the summer time in Doha is just like before=jacket HOME!

Parabellum..Strike might be against local law,but just wondering what the CEO can do against 1500 pilots on strike(except from Sh..ing in his pants!).
Unfortunatly, we won't get that many pilots..those of unaffected by the corrupted roster department,A.. licker, those of unaffected by crap roster who can get easily days off and go home very month, those of who doesn't have to face continiously slap into their face coming from the roster department,those of only flying day time,Those of enjoy only nice layover, those of who are not "CAT C airport" dedicated pilots,those of for who Mumbai FIR is a no-fly zone, and the one for who the "midnight- 6 am" time frame is a no fly time....all those "lucky" guys won't participated for sure!

Last edited by loc22550; 9th Apr 2011 at 06:23.
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Old 9th Apr 2011, 11:25
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Gulf
Posts: 12
Run by children!


Your sentiments here are spot on but what you have to remember is that the CPF (Nando) is an utterly toadying creep that will stop at nothing to please the CEO. The 'squeaky voiced' one has a long history in QR of immature behaviour whereby he gets rewarded for his creeping and spying and is given a management post, he then somewhere along the way cannot handle the pressure, blames others for his own shortcomings and eventually resigns his position following a childish tantrum when he doesn't get his way. Often a grand gesture is made whereby his resignation will be from both his post and the company, followed by a trip to the 9th floor for a good cry and as likely as not after the CEO pats him on the head he withdraws his resignation but is given renewed direct access to floor 9 to furnish more tales of what dreadful things his hard working colleagues are up to.
My memory is a bit hazy of the earlier history but the tally so far goes like this:-
First break into management as CP A320 given by veteran BA EVP DF. He rewarded DF for with his loyalty by siding with a cabal of Qataris that wanted DF removed. Successful with this 'play' and did not even have the courtesy to attend DFs leaving party.
Progressed onto A330 fleet (as CP I think), later resigning to take a job with Airbus Training over in DXB. Some complications with the job offer (references? Passport?) with airbus arose and he was allowed to withdraw his resignation.
Reward for the above, early transfer to B777 as a TRE. Became embroiled in a training fiasco of an unfortunate captain from Pakistan Airways who, alas could not fly the B777 to save his life. However rather than let due process take place he, AQ and others gave said captain a 'helping hand' by loading him up hard during his remedial training sessions. Said captain complained of corruption in B777 training by letter direct to CEO. The same letter accused individuals of forging his signature and other wrong doings. CEO called for an investigation by the incumbent CPT. Report found that albeit said captain was poor, his handling had not been completely fair. RN threw a complete tantrum like a scolded 2 year old, resigned with immediate effect from training (demanding to be removed from already rostered training details), and a couple of days later when his bluff was called he handed in another letter resigning from the company, followed by a trip to floor 9 for another 'kleenex' session.
EVPO AJ was strongly advised to accept his resignation but unbelievably this was overridden by 'floor 9' and a long period of further spying and reporting led to further casualties in flt ops, including the CP Recruitment, (a very hardworking and diligent A330 TRE). For whatever reason Nando really had it in for this guy and was rewarded with a new role back in management as CP Rec. Staggering stuff.
As CP Rec he persuaded the CEO that his role was so important that he should report direct to and be accountable solely to the CEO. The CEO concurred, but to save face for AJ/EVPO the Part A org chart showed the CP Rec report line to the EVP but with a dotted line through to the CEO. Unheard of in any other corporation. Over a fairly short period the pilot recruitment department was rapidly built up into a big empire with dedicated admin staff, a dedicated HR 'girl' (moroccan ex cabin crew and another CEO arch spy). A clutch of other expat colonial types (ex CX) were assigned and the bandwagon rolled around the world attempting to mop up pilots from beleaguered airlines. Not least a huge clutch of old friends from BMI/VX etc. Just the sort of behaviour that he accused others of previously to ingratiate himself to Akbar.
So far so good but things did not go all his own way . QR then, as now is the employer of last choice for any self respecting pilot. The ability to recruit simply could not keep up with the resignation run rate. Most frustrating was the evaporation of pilots that got through the astronaut style selection but declined the offer or were a ‘no show’ on day 1. By late 2009 and 2010 more and more airlines had recommenced recruiting. Meanwhile the erstwhile CP Rec was showing his immaturity and lack of judgement by complaining that the problem was the fault of anyone but himself, HR/ Flt Ops/Rostering. Above and beyond this his ex CX lackies complained of loss of allowances because they did not get enough flying, especially ULR trips. Nando, to alleviate this was instructed rostering (after roster publication) to reallocate certain tasty and good earning trips to said lackies. However the captains removed from such trips (which they had successfully bid for) bitterly complained to CP B777 who did not like Nando and instructed rostering to reverse the decision and a highly predictable and childish turf war ensued.
The heat was getting to Nando now and rumours of yet another resignation were soon flying around. No one in flight ops was allowed to say where he was going or why but it soon transpired that he was on his way to the rough and ready Jet2.com (aka channel express) better known as a freight carrier that reinvented itself as an LCC carrying the shell-suit wearing unwashed folk from oop-north. How that would have suited him is a mystery. They are no-frills in every sense, non-hierarchical, direct and straight talking where everyone has to pull their weight. Airs and graces are not welcome there. So off he went to obscurity and QR took another casualty. There is only so far that your creeping will get you with Akbar. You are never indispensible... or are you?
Unbelievably towards the back end of 2010 rumours surfaced that Nando was coming back as CPT! You have to be kidding. For sure he did not fit in at J2. The J2 culture, rainy climate, the portacabin head offices and the ‘Manchester caviar’ were just too much for a professional expat. Did that mean he would have to pay back his end of service benefit? What about his seniority and date of joining? Rumour has it that he kept his seniority/ doj. Don’t know about the EOS payment but there you have it, he bounced back into town not as CPT but as CPF. WTF?? Only but only in Qatar Airways. Let’s await the next episode. In the meantime keep those jackets buttoned and hats on!
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 08:19
  #13 (permalink)  
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GREAT post, guys like Nando need to be put on the spotlight as the cowards and hypocrites they are...Will it change any of the policies or rules these idiots support? probably not...But every dog has his day, and it will come, its Qatar Airway's style and they will all be back to being just like us on the line, but none of us will forget.


As I said, this is a rule that has no commercial or operational necessity other than pissing people off, especially on the 320 because of the operations nature (Double sectors, fly to mostly airport with out jet way's, and do it 20 times a month)

The policy itself implies that walk around's MUST be done with the blazer ON unless its "To Hot" (No specific definition is given so its up to the mood of the CEO if he feels like giving u a warning letter or not)...And of course your right, the tone of the letter itself...Well that's just every other ACN we ever get...5 Star!

Last edited by JCUERVO; 10th Apr 2011 at 08:46.
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Old 10th Apr 2011, 09:18
  #14 (permalink)  
Aluminum Tubing Inspector
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AK - excellent post! I was still around when DF was there. I agree about the rostering corruption. During my stint in crewing I recall certain local flight deck throwing hissy fits if they did not get what they wanted and would often pull a sickie just to spite us. That said one or two had special "deals" going on but in essence all they were doing was disrupting the schedule for everyone else!

It's funny as I remember AQ as a very quiet, shy FO on the B727 who was going out with one of the filipina crew - oh how things change!

AK, you mentioning the Pakistani captain actually reminded me of a certain Yemeni/Indian captain, who I believe is no longer there - I was rostered with this guy quite a lot and had several disturbing incidents - go around in BKK when it appeared he was ignoring the glide slope warning! Taxiing onto the domestic runway in MNL! Giving me the all clear to close doors with the fuel bowser still attached! Then he tells me he likes flying with me! It was only when I was in crewing and updating his records I saw his training results!

It appears not much has changed since I left 10 years ago but Akbar the Snackbar needs to recognise the issues and only a short, sharp shock will wake him up! How many stories have we heard about him leaving?

I wish you all safe flights and the best of everything - both FD and CC are up against it - not a great working environment and never really has been - this jacket issue was raised in the late 90s too but eventually left to the Captain's discretion.


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Old 10th Apr 2011, 22:03
  #15 (permalink)  
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this jacket issue was raised in the late 90s too but eventually left to the Captain's discretion.
Homesick Rae...we must remember that in the late 90's, it was more of a pilot's market and I'm sure certain decisions reflected keeping the pilot folk happy...now that things are tighter, many employers are showing their true colours and then 'dare' pilots to leave if they're not happy!!!
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Old 11th Apr 2011, 07:27
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Sad to see how the jacket rule gives flapfullretard another reason to express his dislike of third world pilots. Apparently he is not aware of some of the nationalities in management, but who cares....right? Furthermore, are you throwing a smoke screen to hide the fact that you are bottom of the barrel in your country and had to end up in the gulf? At least I am glad to say, I come from the third world, I have flown with colleagues from all over the world, to me, it comes down to education at home and not the writing in your passport. And please FFR, focus on the issue, people may start wondering if you are just here to diffuse the arguments and divert attention to other things, just like scabs or strike breakers (common practice for the untalented few in the FIRST WORLD) do, then continue doing your best. I urge the moderator to take a closer look, or is it that you agree with that type of bashing. Thank you, and yes, it is going to be hot with the jacket on and we are going to hate it.
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Old 11th Apr 2011, 07:50
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: middleast
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Nothing new FFR.. "if" you have an option before coming here lets say between EK,EY,AA,QR..sure people will never opt for QR...they will go for a "career" airline that gives you at least something at the end of the day when you leave..either a pension or a reasonable end of service benefit and/or nice bonus,...unlike QR!
The problem is well known here in QR: There is NO SENIORITY and LONG TERM CAREER incentive !
(Food for thought...if you join today a company like A.A. (low cost..!) your first full salary will be higher than the one you get after a decade of work with QR!!
Does it make sense for a "major" and national carrier like QR...?

Last edited by loc22550; 11th Apr 2011 at 08:31.
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Old 11th Apr 2011, 08:25
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes
Posts: 324

I don't think FFR was pointing a finger, rather stating a fact. Compare the demographics of QR to the other major players - which can be simply done by listening to the RT.
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Old 11th Apr 2011, 14:53
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A nerve was hit best form of defense ... etc
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Old 11th Apr 2011, 16:18
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: middleast
Posts: 1,236
I like your optimism kijangnim...
But me i'm rather realistic:
IMHO They have (So far) no reason to improve anything.
Middle east will remain the middle east for a Looong time, what i mean is that they bring us here for one think: to work.
And expats welfare is probaly their last priority(with some rare exception i guess),and the famous "take it or Leave it" (in other words,they don't care if you are happy or not..) will still remain in application for the next 100 years at least in this part of the world as This is the mentality here.
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