Pilot shortage in EK
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When's the last time you let a trainee land in 40kts of crosswind at night?
You are a braver instructor than I...
You are a braver instructor than I...
He did just fine, because, he had superb training from the get go.
This fellow also came to the airline with rather good stick and rudder skills(from a B727), something 'automation' simply can not teach, no matter how good that automation might be.
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It's not me setting the rules about 30T. That 's just the way it is and was, if I remember correctly the 55 T thing included 732 ADV and not the 732 basic, (same same but different). If you feel strongly about it contact HR. They are always playing with the numbers. Sunday morning may bring a change.
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Yeah yeah i know Fatbus, sorry i wasnt having a go at you, just expressing my opinion thats the weight thing is complete BS because it doesnt really define a pilots ability in any way shape or form!
Cheers
Cheers
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411A
When I WAS in short pants, simulators weren't cleared for zero flight time ops. All type conversions involved circiut bashing. Even my first two jet types involved circuit bashing. My next two didn't and it made no difference WHATSOEVER!
Funny thing is, you're stuck in a time warp. While many basics of aviation hold true, and I agree that good solid training is one of them, technology has advanced. Your B727 friend may well have exceptional handling skills. Aircraft such as that are ideal platforms to gain that sort of experience. The latest generation are not. I see it often when guys interview here. The older generation guys fly a great circuit but are clueless when it comes to FMC/ EFIS etc. They struggle the most during training and struggle the most on line. As aircraft are now designed with high levels of automation, it's only right that the training reflects this. If you don't understand what it's doing, how can you ever hope to operate it safely and efficiently.
So, as I said before, it takes far more than circuit bashing to make a more rounded pilot. I only need to spend the first half hour in the flight deck to know whether my colleague is ex air force, airline sponsored cadet, or, self improver. From my 'limited' 26 years experience, only one of these three is as near as possible to the complete 'rounded' package. I'll leave you decide which one you think it is! Can't wait.
Harry
When I WAS in short pants, simulators weren't cleared for zero flight time ops. All type conversions involved circiut bashing. Even my first two jet types involved circuit bashing. My next two didn't and it made no difference WHATSOEVER!
Funny thing is, you're stuck in a time warp. While many basics of aviation hold true, and I agree that good solid training is one of them, technology has advanced. Your B727 friend may well have exceptional handling skills. Aircraft such as that are ideal platforms to gain that sort of experience. The latest generation are not. I see it often when guys interview here. The older generation guys fly a great circuit but are clueless when it comes to FMC/ EFIS etc. They struggle the most during training and struggle the most on line. As aircraft are now designed with high levels of automation, it's only right that the training reflects this. If you don't understand what it's doing, how can you ever hope to operate it safely and efficiently.
So, as I said before, it takes far more than circuit bashing to make a more rounded pilot. I only need to spend the first half hour in the flight deck to know whether my colleague is ex air force, airline sponsored cadet, or, self improver. From my 'limited' 26 years experience, only one of these three is as near as possible to the complete 'rounded' package. I'll leave you decide which one you think it is! Can't wait.
Harry
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Yeah yeah i know Fatbus, sorry i wasnt having a go at you, just expressing my opinion thats the weight thing is complete BS because it doesnt really define a pilots ability in any way shape or form!
7
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Knowing the computers and the box is great until **** is entered and **** is shat out or ATC/WX/terrain/inability/traffic/last nights curry paints a crew in a automation corner. S & R skills still count as an advanced aircraft is still an aeroplane and will fly like one with everything disconnected.
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Knowing the computers and the box is great until **** is entered and **** is shat out or ATC/WX/terrain/inability/traffic/last nights curry paints a crew in a automation corner.
And...before anyone cries 'fatigue' was a factor in the two mentioned, I say...baloney.
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LR3
I think you are way off base. Have you met any recent newhires? The pass rate at the interview stage is around 42%. Most of the courses are filled with pilots with considerable experience. The fact is that the world aviation market is not very good at the moment and Emirates represents one of the better packages out there. The situation is to Emirates' advantage as they can get qualified pilots for less than it might normally cost. They just went to Japan and Mexico and had a huge response. Are you saying that these guys have experience that is, as you said, "nowhere near what you had a few years ago?"
Let me guess. The experience of newhires at EK peaked right about the time you were hired and it's been going down ever since. Am I right? What an as#.
I think you are way off base. Have you met any recent newhires? The pass rate at the interview stage is around 42%. Most of the courses are filled with pilots with considerable experience. The fact is that the world aviation market is not very good at the moment and Emirates represents one of the better packages out there. The situation is to Emirates' advantage as they can get qualified pilots for less than it might normally cost. They just went to Japan and Mexico and had a huge response. Are you saying that these guys have experience that is, as you said, "nowhere near what you had a few years ago?"
Let me guess. The experience of newhires at EK peaked right about the time you were hired and it's been going down ever since. Am I right? What an as#.
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Don't disagree with that statement. Rubbish in, rubbish out was one of the first rules of computers. Always has been and always will be.
The main problem with MEL was that SOP's were not followed. If they had been, the 100 tonne discrepancy would have been noticed. And for your information 411A, at no time did the Captain ever refer to Fatigue as a contributory factor. He did, however, refer to numerous distractions and interuptions from ground personel.
Cali was a different case altogether and while wrong info was inputed, the Captains confusion with the workings of the FMC was a causal factor in the CFIT. Along with many, many other factors including speedbrake design issues. But, let's not go there. Boeing certainly don't want to!
Harry
The main problem with MEL was that SOP's were not followed. If they had been, the 100 tonne discrepancy would have been noticed. And for your information 411A, at no time did the Captain ever refer to Fatigue as a contributory factor. He did, however, refer to numerous distractions and interuptions from ground personel.
Cali was a different case altogether and while wrong info was inputed, the Captains confusion with the workings of the FMC was a causal factor in the CFIT. Along with many, many other factors including speedbrake design issues. But, let's not go there. Boeing certainly don't want to!
Harry
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Dropp
Nah, that's a cop out and requires further actions from the pilot at a time of high workload and stress. They havn't fixed the problem, merely passed the responsibility and ultimately, the culpability, onto those at the sharp end.
.........Unless of course FCOM version 39 mentions anything about 'autostow', which, for obvious litigation purposes, I doubt it ever will.
Harry
Nah, that's a cop out and requires further actions from the pilot at a time of high workload and stress. They havn't fixed the problem, merely passed the responsibility and ultimately, the culpability, onto those at the sharp end.
.........Unless of course FCOM version 39 mentions anything about 'autostow', which, for obvious litigation purposes, I doubt it ever will.
Harry
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airbus757
Mate, i couldnt disagree more with your statement. We fly both the ERJ145 and Ejet at my company, and depending on the load factors, they swap and change the aircraft to fly to destination constantly between the 2 aircraft. Hence the E145 flies to 99% the destinations the Ejet goes -vice versa. The Ejet qualifies the E145 doesnt... whats that about more international exp? Your kidding right?
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Pilot shortage at EK
Dear EK colleagues; I'm in my 13th year and year 11 as CM1/Captain. There will never be a pilot shortage at EK ever !! If things become desperate, Uncle Tim will simply hire DEC's for any type at $ 20,000 a month or whatever is better than Korean, Turkish, Kish etc etc ad nauseum etc.
In any event, most of the ongoing posters/whingers on this forum, if given an engine failure for real after t/o at 500' in a Baron 58, ATR72, Boeing 737, or any EK type would end up in a shallow smoking hole in the ground a couple of miles beyond the upwind threshold.
GET A LIFE, stop whingeing and resign if you have the balls or the experience to go elsewhere !!
In any event, most of the ongoing posters/whingers on this forum, if given an engine failure for real after t/o at 500' in a Baron 58, ATR72, Boeing 737, or any EK type would end up in a shallow smoking hole in the ground a couple of miles beyond the upwind threshold.
GET A LIFE, stop whingeing and resign if you have the balls or the experience to go elsewhere !!
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bogey,
Your first part of your post is harsh but very true. It's the famous law of supply and demand.
With regards to the second part of your post (re:engine failure), I don't agree as it is very subjective.
Your first part of your post is harsh but very true. It's the famous law of supply and demand.
With regards to the second part of your post (re:engine failure), I don't agree as it is very subjective.
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Originally Posted by bogey
Pilot shortage at EK
Dear EK colleagues; I'm in my 13th year and year 11 as CM1/Captain. There will never be a pilot shortage at EK ever !! If things become desperate, Uncle Tim will simply hire DEC's for any type at $ 20,000 a month or whatever is better than Korean, Turkish, Kish etc etc ad nauseum etc.
In any event, most of the ongoing posters/whingers on this forum, if given an engine failure for real after t/o at 500' in a Baron 58, ATR72, Boeing 737, or any EK type would end up in a shallow smoking hole in the ground a couple of miles beyond the upwind threshold.
GET A LIFE, stop whingeing and resign if you have the balls or the experience to go elsewhere !!
Dear EK colleagues; I'm in my 13th year and year 11 as CM1/Captain. There will never be a pilot shortage at EK ever !! If things become desperate, Uncle Tim will simply hire DEC's for any type at $ 20,000 a month or whatever is better than Korean, Turkish, Kish etc etc ad nauseum etc.
In any event, most of the ongoing posters/whingers on this forum, if given an engine failure for real after t/o at 500' in a Baron 58, ATR72, Boeing 737, or any EK type would end up in a shallow smoking hole in the ground a couple of miles beyond the upwind threshold.
GET A LIFE, stop whingeing and resign if you have the balls or the experience to go elsewhere !!
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if given an engine failure for real after t/o at 500' in a Baron 58, ATR72, Boeing 737, or any EK type would end up in a shallow smoking hole in the ground a couple of miles beyond the upwind threshold.
ATR72? Well. If you are not actually asleep...
737? Gimme a break. All that's needed is nose down by 5 degrees and caressing the CORRECT pedal. But - I like your style too.
Well, I'll try and be gentle....
Bogey, you're a ****!!
I disagree with a lot of the more vehement whingers here because, at times, they justify their positions with arguments that are simply false.
I would NEVER suggest that in any way reflects on their professionalism or ability as pilots.
The fact that so few actually leave tends to justify my position- that, realistically, EK is still one of the better places to be regardless of the acknowledged problems.
The fact that those who DO choose to leave never seem to have problems finding alternate employment, often with premier carriers, shows that the standard of pilot here is pretty high.
Bogey, you're a ****!!
I disagree with a lot of the more vehement whingers here because, at times, they justify their positions with arguments that are simply false.
I would NEVER suggest that in any way reflects on their professionalism or ability as pilots.
The fact that so few actually leave tends to justify my position- that, realistically, EK is still one of the better places to be regardless of the acknowledged problems.
The fact that those who DO choose to leave never seem to have problems finding alternate employment, often with premier carriers, shows that the standard of pilot here is pretty high.
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Thread Creep Alert
Whoop Whoop!
Thread Creep Thread Creep.
Let's get back on topic boys.
I say there is nothing wrong here. It's all good.
Now pass the purple Kool Aid.
T
Thread Creep Thread Creep.
Let's get back on topic boys.
I say there is nothing wrong here. It's all good.
Now pass the purple Kool Aid.
T
Last edited by troff; 3rd Oct 2010 at 09:47. Reason: Spelling
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Wiz,
More EK 777 Capt's failed the sim eval at KAL then passed , so what does that say about the standard at EK?
Also , have you noticed the increase failure on PPC's lately?
More EK 777 Capt's failed the sim eval at KAL then passed , so what does that say about the standard at EK?
Also , have you noticed the increase failure on PPC's lately?