Goodbye Dubai
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Thank God they linked their currency to the USD. If we wouldn't have that we would all be earning peanuts from today on.
And as mentioned above: it will be very interesting to see how the locals in Dubai react now that the full extend of this f*ck-up by their leaders is surfacing and their glittery economy goes full belly up...
And as mentioned above: it will be very interesting to see how the locals in Dubai react now that the full extend of this f*ck-up by their leaders is surfacing and their glittery economy goes full belly up...
short flights long nights
This is getting very serious, markets all around the world are down today, the Dow has fallen 200 points on opening, all markets in Asia are down. Even the South Koreann currency is down because of it. Next week is going to be very rocky..fasten your seat belts!!!
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Where did the money go ?
There are so many questions....and no one with answers.
The authorities are on vacation; the local media is cowering in silence.
One part (or many) that I do not understand is why the need to announce a planned deferral now?
In February Dubai raised $10bn in bonds from the UAE central bank as the first half of its $20bn sovereign bond programme in an effective bail-out from the oil-rich capital. The on Wednesday, Dubai raised $5bn of the second $10bn tranche from National Bank of Abu Dhabi and Al Hilal Bank, two institutions with strong Abu Dhabi government holdings.
Separately Dubai's department of finance managed to raise almost $2bn in Islamic bonds last month in a move that had also shored up confidence.
So with US$ 17bn raised - why is there an issue about repaying Nakeel's US$3.5 bn sukuk in December.
Where did the money go ?
The authorities are on vacation; the local media is cowering in silence.
One part (or many) that I do not understand is why the need to announce a planned deferral now?
In February Dubai raised $10bn in bonds from the UAE central bank as the first half of its $20bn sovereign bond programme in an effective bail-out from the oil-rich capital. The on Wednesday, Dubai raised $5bn of the second $10bn tranche from National Bank of Abu Dhabi and Al Hilal Bank, two institutions with strong Abu Dhabi government holdings.
Separately Dubai's department of finance managed to raise almost $2bn in Islamic bonds last month in a move that had also shored up confidence.
So with US$ 17bn raised - why is there an issue about repaying Nakeel's US$3.5 bn sukuk in December.
Where did the money go ?
Join Date: Jan 2002
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After all they may suggest that letting Nakheel go bust is the best option....
So with US$ 17bn raised - why is there an issue about repaying Nakeel's US$3.5 bn sukuk in December.
Where did the money go ?
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After all they may suggest that letting Nakheel go bust is the best option....
I am curious about how those new A380's are planned to be financed...
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Now with the decrease in state benefits to the locals, will lead to further demands from the locals for jobs in pvt sector - a la Bahrain since 90s - here then you have a drop in productivity of the pvt enterprise as they have to make do with less skilled and motivated workforce.
Dubai has a relatively small native population and I would hazard to guess almost no native unemployment as there are more than enough public sector jobs to keep all of them employed.
All of the above will lead to a rethink, on the part of many corporates housed there to look at alternatives like DOHA or MUSCAT. Leading to further drop in premium traffic travelling in and out of DXB. Construction was the largest employer, with it coming to a standstill, all the indentured labout from the sub-cont stops leading to drop in high yield traffic.
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Letting the dead wood go to the wall has been what the rest of the world has been doing all year.
I am curious about how those new A380's are planned to be financed...
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Finance, Cost of living and Expat Life style
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Big difference between the two. There was massive unemployment in Bahrain amongst the Shia in the 90's with very few benefits. The 94-95 riots were due to the Sunni getting preferential treatment and government jobs. In addition Bahrain has a substantial population. Dubai has a relatively small native population and I would hazard to guess almost no native unemployment as there are more than enough public sector jobs to keep all of them employed.
In the resulting economic contraction, it is these locals that are going to be hit hard. Landlords will be chasing a smaller population of tenants, so part of the extended family that previously lived off rentals will be in the jobs market. And when i talk about DXB i mean all the emirates north of DXB. The beauty of AUH is that it is south of DXB and hence insulated from the less fortunate northern brothers.
To put the whole thing into perspective the future size of the economy is likely to be the size of Sharjah for the rest of UAE (minus AUH) and they will have to share it among themselves, EK, AA, RAK et all.
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There are no alternatives tr Dubai. The only potential alternatives would be Abu Dhabi or Bahrain, but neither one of them has the current infrastructure to support them nor would the have the intentions to start another building bubble to support them.
Muscat has the most affordable economy, to sustain the expat lifestyle in this era of ltd or no credit globalised world. It has some of the most beautifull beaches in Salaah region. In a era of Digital economy and LCC, i see expats rediscovering OMAN.
Last edited by jethrotull; 27th Nov 2009 at 18:08. Reason: splling
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It was only a matter of time before this happened,what ever happened to that nice arabic trading port we knew in the 70's.
The OMAN has the right idea, slow development and sustained growth.
One can liken Dubai now to Benidorm in the early 80's -tacky
The OMAN has the right idea, slow development and sustained growth.
One can liken Dubai now to Benidorm in the early 80's -tacky
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Shaik Mo ! Well done ! All your local friends will love you about your dream.
They have to go to work now and can t take the money from expats for doing nothing:::::
Sorry guys but you have been to greedy!
They have to go to work now and can t take the money from expats for doing nothing:::::
Sorry guys but you have been to greedy!
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umm....ok.
Any comments now from anyone who actually lives here?
Any comments now from anyone who actually lives here?
Even when I left, 4 years ago, certain clever people were talking about how the smart money was working hard in Dubai but how the really smart money was sitting waiting in Abu Dhabi, ready for the time that the profligate, corrupt and utterly self-serving 'Vision' hit the buffers.
I think that time has now arrived.
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I am not a rocket scientist but was saying years ago these idiots overdo it, way too much spending and greed, its just not normal that every local drives a super expensive car, somebody has to pay for it, you can only milk the expats till they are dry and then what, beg abu dhabi?
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One aspect of the current crisis that hasn’t been mentioned is the level of credit card debt among the Locals, even before Dubai’s financial meltdown occurred. I had a friend who was quite senior in one of the major banks in Dubai who quoted me the figures of how much the average Local owed on his credit card (or more correctly, in most cases, credit cards).
I can’t recall the figure, but it was staggering – an amount that the vast majority of them would never be able to repay given the interest rates that most of those cards attract. The banks just sat back raking in the (substantial) minimum monthly repayments. (And from what he said, even in those good times, the number who didn’t even keep up the minimum monthly payments was not inconsiderable.)
To a far lesser degree, the same problem exists among the expat population, particularly amongst the young single Western females (and also many of the males), who have to have the latest model of everything and have it now to keep up the Dubai Dream. (If you’re an EK pilot, as an experiment, ask the L1 on your next trip [if you’re game] what her credit card balance is and you might be surprised.) Quite a few EK cabin crew remain in Dubai only because they’re trying to pay off their credit card bill. But suggest to any of them that they take to their card with a pair of scissors and see what answer you get!
Which leads me to the question: how is this debt, particularly with the Locals, ever to be repaid, particularly if the Golden Goose stops ‘laying’ all those nice public sector jobs and very generous pensions, which it may well do?
I can’t recall the figure, but it was staggering – an amount that the vast majority of them would never be able to repay given the interest rates that most of those cards attract. The banks just sat back raking in the (substantial) minimum monthly repayments. (And from what he said, even in those good times, the number who didn’t even keep up the minimum monthly payments was not inconsiderable.)
To a far lesser degree, the same problem exists among the expat population, particularly amongst the young single Western females (and also many of the males), who have to have the latest model of everything and have it now to keep up the Dubai Dream. (If you’re an EK pilot, as an experiment, ask the L1 on your next trip [if you’re game] what her credit card balance is and you might be surprised.) Quite a few EK cabin crew remain in Dubai only because they’re trying to pay off their credit card bill. But suggest to any of them that they take to their card with a pair of scissors and see what answer you get!
Which leads me to the question: how is this debt, particularly with the Locals, ever to be repaid, particularly if the Golden Goose stops ‘laying’ all those nice public sector jobs and very generous pensions, which it may well do?
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To be honest, it seems that the credit card (and personal loan) debt is excessively high throughout the GCC, much like it was in 07'-08' and still is to a certain extent now, in the U.S. and Western Europe.
Here in Bahrain personal debt is at an all time high. Many locals I know are using up to 40% of their monthly pay packet to service their interest alone.
Very worrying....
Here in Bahrain personal debt is at an all time high. Many locals I know are using up to 40% of their monthly pay packet to service their interest alone.
Very worrying....
Last edited by GAGing in Bahrain; 28th Nov 2009 at 04:59.
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Seems the Footy stars, dead Moonwalkers, actors and banks didn't do their homework!
Presenting a list of the more colourful names understood to have invested in Nakheel’s Dubai Palm development (Source: tabloids and press).
* David Beckham (footballer, international fashion icon)
* Michael Owen (footballer)
* David James (goalkeeper)
* Joe Cole (footballer)
* Andy Cole (retired footballer)
* Kieron Dyer (footballer)
* Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie (actors)
* Michael Jackson (king of pop)
* Naomi Campbell (model)
* Denzel Washington (actor)
Britons, meanwhile, accounted for about 25 per cent of the buyers with the rest from 75 different nationalities, including several Americans, according to the Daily Mail.As for banks, the Emirates Bank Association lists the following institutions as being the largest foreign banks invested in the UAE:
* HSBC $17bn
* Standard Chartered $7.8bn
* Barclays $3.6bn
* RBS $2.2bn
* Citi $1.9bn
* BNP Paribas $1.7bn
# Lloyds $1.6bn
* David Beckham (footballer, international fashion icon)
* Michael Owen (footballer)
* David James (goalkeeper)
* Joe Cole (footballer)
* Andy Cole (retired footballer)
* Kieron Dyer (footballer)
* Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie (actors)
* Michael Jackson (king of pop)
* Naomi Campbell (model)
* Denzel Washington (actor)
Britons, meanwhile, accounted for about 25 per cent of the buyers with the rest from 75 different nationalities, including several Americans, according to the Daily Mail.As for banks, the Emirates Bank Association lists the following institutions as being the largest foreign banks invested in the UAE:
* HSBC $17bn
* Standard Chartered $7.8bn
* Barclays $3.6bn
* RBS $2.2bn
* Citi $1.9bn
* BNP Paribas $1.7bn
# Lloyds $1.6bn
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Fox3
Do you really think Beckham and rest actually 'paid' for their properties?
I am pretty sure that they were given the properties to entice others to buy and become nieghbours of the rich and famous.
They should have given one to Tom Hanks because he could then relive his movie 'Castaway' because nobody else will be there!
Do you really think Beckham and rest actually 'paid' for their properties?
I am pretty sure that they were given the properties to entice others to buy and become nieghbours of the rich and famous.
They should have given one to Tom Hanks because he could then relive his movie 'Castaway' because nobody else will be there!
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All is not well and Dubai rulers managed to hold their ground up to this crisis. Old Shk Maktoum must be "very upset" wherever he is.
Abu Dhabi rulers no longer believe in the usual "brotherhood" and now will "pick and choose to help" Dubai. Now, it'll be anyone's guess what they'll do and how.
Just a hint about aviation in the UAE in the last 25 to 30 years. In the late 80s or early 90s, Abu Dhabi rulers wanted to quit GF and asked the Dubai rulers for EK to be based in Abu Dhabi, and Dubai refused. Dubai's (little) concession was the DXB-AUH-LGW-AUH-DXB flight (not daily, I think) which had little result. Remember how Abu Dhabi quit GF and asked them to cut by 80% their movements through AUH? I'm sure there are more.
For those who have lived here for some years, do you remember the saga of the Burj Al Arab silhouette on the Dubai car registration plates and how it was solved? The fittest rules. These little things have a price and yes, Abu Dhabi will pick and choose "their help" to Dubai. The mutual back scratching is over, but it won't be noticed clearly in public or in the worldwide media.
Abu Dhabi rulers no longer believe in the usual "brotherhood" and now will "pick and choose to help" Dubai. Now, it'll be anyone's guess what they'll do and how.
Just a hint about aviation in the UAE in the last 25 to 30 years. In the late 80s or early 90s, Abu Dhabi rulers wanted to quit GF and asked the Dubai rulers for EK to be based in Abu Dhabi, and Dubai refused. Dubai's (little) concession was the DXB-AUH-LGW-AUH-DXB flight (not daily, I think) which had little result. Remember how Abu Dhabi quit GF and asked them to cut by 80% their movements through AUH? I'm sure there are more.
For those who have lived here for some years, do you remember the saga of the Burj Al Arab silhouette on the Dubai car registration plates and how it was solved? The fittest rules. These little things have a price and yes, Abu Dhabi will pick and choose "their help" to Dubai. The mutual back scratching is over, but it won't be noticed clearly in public or in the worldwide media.
short flights long nights
BBC just reporting AUH will look on a case by case basis what they will provide money for...things are changing.
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FWIW 
On a separate note I'll bet that some people are making an awful lot of money out of this panic - I thought that Short Selling was supposed to be illegal?
ABU DHABI (Reuters) - Abu Dhabi, capital of the United Arab Emirates and one of the world's top oil exporters, will "pick and choose" how to assist its debt-laden neighbor Dubai, a senior Abu Dhabi official said on Saturday.
"We will look at Dubai's commitments and approach them on a case-by-case basis. It does not mean that Abu Dhabi will underwrite all of their debts," the official told Reuters by telephone.
The government official declined to be identified because he is not authorized to speak to the media.
"Some of Dubai's entities are commercial, semi-government ones. Abu Dhabi will pick and choose when and where to assist," he said.
"We will look at Dubai's commitments and approach them on a case-by-case basis. It does not mean that Abu Dhabi will underwrite all of their debts," the official told Reuters by telephone.
The government official declined to be identified because he is not authorized to speak to the media.
"Some of Dubai's entities are commercial, semi-government ones. Abu Dhabi will pick and choose when and where to assist," he said.
On a separate note I'll bet that some people are making an awful lot of money out of this panic - I thought that Short Selling was supposed to be illegal?
In a reflection of how sure investors were that Dubai would meet these payments, the bonds were trading at a 10 percent premium to face value earlier this week. They are now trading at around half of face value.