Goodbye Dubai
I doubt the nursing home let Maurice into the car parks at Dubai T1 2 or 3, still plenty of dusty autos there, same in most neighbourhoods.
Dubai polis admitted to several thousand cars at the impound lot a few months ago. Good deals to be had on auctioned cars.
Workers protection does not bear comment, unless I say "wibble"
Don't get me started on the British Curriculum.
The local authority ,the KHDA (?), now want to interfere in the running of all schools.
Arabic and Islamic Studies to be taught as core subjects, all at he expense of existing tried and tested main subjects.
The reason given is to improve standards, only problem is the schools that are struggling are the local ones, poor standards, large dropout rate before higher education...so the best way to sort it is to bring the other schools down to their level. Pure F@@king Genius.
Dubai polis admitted to several thousand cars at the impound lot a few months ago. Good deals to be had on auctioned cars.
Workers protection does not bear comment, unless I say "wibble"
Don't get me started on the British Curriculum.
The local authority ,the KHDA (?), now want to interfere in the running of all schools.
Arabic and Islamic Studies to be taught as core subjects, all at he expense of existing tried and tested main subjects.
The reason given is to improve standards, only problem is the schools that are struggling are the local ones, poor standards, large dropout rate before higher education...so the best way to sort it is to bring the other schools down to their level. Pure F@@king Genius.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HKT
Age: 64
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@ SFLY
Hi dude,
do you smoke the same stuff that Maurice is having or do you just copy/paste from Gulfnews
If its running well its because of their visionary leaders
If they fcuk it up...there is always somebody else to blame!!
Taking responsibilities was never a part of the "Emirati culture"
That "culture" is defined by greed, slavery, corruption and bigotry
do you smoke the same stuff that Maurice is having or do you just copy/paste from Gulfnews
If its running well its because of their visionary leaders
If they fcuk it up...there is always somebody else to blame!!
Taking responsibilities was never a part of the "Emirati culture"
That "culture" is defined by greed, slavery, corruption and bigotry
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Country
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HKT
Age: 64
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last time I checked, some responsible leaders in "my culture" were officially blamed in the free press and after admitting the errors they made, most of them got elected out of office. 
Does sound a bit different from Dubai...dont you think?
Better stop comparing an autocracy/cleptocracy with the first world systems
Does sound a bit different from Dubai...dont you think?
Better stop comparing an autocracy/cleptocracy with the first world systems
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: DXB
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Taking responsibilities was never a part of the "Emirati culture"
That "culture" is defined by greed, slavery, corruption and bigotry
That "culture" is defined by greed, slavery, corruption and bigotry
Banks and greedy speculators are not less responsible than the Emiratis in this collective dream. Real Estate speculators demanding crazy ROI are also fueling the big slavery. Do you really think money is growing on trees and that the government owes you the "promised" profits you didn't make in your JBR apartment?
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Country
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: HKT
Age: 64
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So your 'culture' doesn't have 'greed, slavery, corruption and bigotry' then
Greed, slavery, corruption and bigotry is also somehow present in "my culture" but in Dubai its the daily program!
Whereas the crisis in the first world is discussed and somehow dealed with,
the Emiratis are in complete denial and as I said before they will NEVER admit making mistakes...was probably Allahs will anyway
Do you really think money is growing on trees and that the government owes you the "promised" profits you didn't make in your JBR apartment?
Au contraire, my clueless friend, I worked hard for my money that I invested wisely (Whats JBR?
) and I am enjoying it now semi-retired in my own real estate far away from the sandy sh!thole
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: West Country
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: KUL
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
J2?
I have to agree with you that greed, slavery, corruption and bigotry are somewhat rooted in human nature. But I also have to agree with Schibulsky: While major parts of the world have found ways to deal with these vices and at least marked them as undesirable, the UAE went in the opposite direction and developed them into a form of art - very much like what the Indians did with the British concept of bureaucracy.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dubai
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That when it speaks of itself.
Greed, slavery, corruption and bigotry
Of course they will tell you all is good. But watch your T&C going down the drain. They will remind you that you are lucky to have a job while they abuse you and pocket the bonuses while you get less and less. Keep discovering
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: DXB
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
very much like what the Indians did with the British concept of bureaucracy
Few years ago the greedy expats were fighting like animals to get the best real estate investments only to realize their is no money in the end... of course it's again the Emiratis' fault.
Since it's so famous that Emiratis are irresponsible I wonder how the banks will explain to their clients that they placed their money in the wrong place...
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: KUL
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SFLY
SFLY,
I arrived in the UAE a long time ago. I rented that wonderful 4 bedroom villa for AED 40k.
When I asked the landlord about future rent increases, he was insulted. An Arab's word is an Arab's word. Shake hands, deep look into each other's eyes, bonding between males and so on.
Something must have happened in between, because just before the real estate furball he was asking for AED400k ( I moved out at 78k) .
I was raised in a city that is considered one of this world's hedonism centrals. Its population dwars that of the entire UAE. Nevertheless the amount of hookers in my home town is about 10% of what I find in DXB alone. Now, draw your own conclusions.
My conclusion: UAE nationals are no better and no worse than any other homo sapiens on this planet. But they have lost the plot. I hope they learn and emerge as better people.
I arrived in the UAE a long time ago. I rented that wonderful 4 bedroom villa for AED 40k.
When I asked the landlord about future rent increases, he was insulted. An Arab's word is an Arab's word. Shake hands, deep look into each other's eyes, bonding between males and so on.
Something must have happened in between, because just before the real estate furball he was asking for AED400k ( I moved out at 78k) .
I was raised in a city that is considered one of this world's hedonism centrals. Its population dwars that of the entire UAE. Nevertheless the amount of hookers in my home town is about 10% of what I find in DXB alone. Now, draw your own conclusions.
My conclusion: UAE nationals are no better and no worse than any other homo sapiens on this planet. But they have lost the plot. I hope they learn and emerge as better people.
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: DXB
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nevertheless the amount of hookers in my home town is about 10% of what I find in DXB alone. Now, draw your own conclusions.
Otherwise I fully agree with you, human nature is the same everywhere.
I have been night stopping in Dubai for 15 years. I have many friends living there.
I only mention this so that my comments dont appear naive.
There has always been prostitution in Dubai. As much as most places i have been. CYCLONE, is a good example. But, in the old days, it was at least subtle.
2 weeks ago i was walking from my hotel to the shopping mall, and the main street (one that has a metro station) was full of chinese prostitutes, aggressively selling their wares and in front of families and children. I was shocked.
Sodom and Gomorrah.
Now, we have a place of confusing virtue. The west is despicable. Sex is ubiquitous and greed is rampant. (Oh ****, doesn't that sound like Dubai?)
There is nothing like religion to make a bigotted idiot self righteous.
Dubai will probably survive. But the arrogance may will subside.
I only mention this so that my comments dont appear naive.
There has always been prostitution in Dubai. As much as most places i have been. CYCLONE, is a good example. But, in the old days, it was at least subtle.
2 weeks ago i was walking from my hotel to the shopping mall, and the main street (one that has a metro station) was full of chinese prostitutes, aggressively selling their wares and in front of families and children. I was shocked.
Sodom and Gomorrah.
Now, we have a place of confusing virtue. The west is despicable. Sex is ubiquitous and greed is rampant. (Oh ****, doesn't that sound like Dubai?)
There is nothing like religion to make a bigotted idiot self righteous.
Dubai will probably survive. But the arrogance may will subside.
My God.
Logically there are only two possibilities: Either Maurice Flanagan is mentally unstable, i.e. removed from reality somehow, or he is lying. I know those are the only possibilities because I know that what he said in that interview isn't true.
As with many posters on this thread, I know Dubai and the UAE very well. I would say "intimately" but that word is no more appropriate in reference to knowing Dubai than it is to knowing a hooker.
I will leave untouched his utter crap about the hotels and flights, the malls and the schools. I cannot leave unchallenged his comments about workers and their rights. To suggest that “construction workers here are protected by legislation” and that their conditions are much better than “the truly appalling conditions afflicting thousands of immigrant workers in England” is worse than a lie; it’s a denial of the servitude and slavery that are an integral part of what makes Dubai work (or made it work). I use the word “slavery” in a most intentional and considered way. The terms under which construction workers are brought to Dubai, and the conditions under which they live and work, meet the definition of slavery in every way. The fact that the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, Western Europe etc, all refuse to take the UAE to task is both telling and abominable. (And, like it or not, we as ex-pat workers from those more privileged places, must acknowledge our own part in this 21st century slave business.)
The correlation between the USA of the early 19th century, for instance, and the UAE of today is unequivocal. The conditions under which slaves lived and worked on Southern plantations back then can be summarised this way: Landowners and slave-owners treated those people as poorly as they could get away with, whilst obeying what laws there were, and not having their workers die off from disease or injury. Which meant that only basic food, shelter and clothing needs were met. If some workers had better conditions than that it was not because of legislation, it was because of one person’s own morals and decisions. In essence slavery means, in this case, treating people as badly as one can get away with; denying whatever human rights one can successfully deny in a given jurisdiction. The business owner provides only as much of the basic human needs as are minimally required without running afoul of whatever “law enforcement” or authorities that may exist.
In the case of modern-day Dubai what that means is, specifically:
· Twelve hour work days (that’s 12 hours on the job, plus whatever travel time in that big old non-a/c-equipped bus) for a minimum of six days per week, often seven days per week.
· Fifteen to thirty men per three to four bedroom “apartment”. One kitchen. Many little gas stoves on the floor for cooking. One toilet. Which also means sewage lines that back up (yes I’ve seen it, smelled it, walked through it).
· Starting wage of approx 800 AED per month, rising to 1200 after a year or two, and as much as 2000 after 3 or 4 years. Minus a deduction of 10 AED per day for the above accommodation. So, a net income of 500 to 1700 AED per month. (For those not familiar with the “pegged-to–the-US Dollar” exchange rate, it’s roughly 3.7 AED dirhams to one US dollar.) Do the math.
· An up-front payment to a “visa arranger” in the home country of between 3000 and 5000 USD, to be one of the “chosen” who gets to pursue the dream of a better life. Not for one’s self but for one’s family back home. To be paid back in installments whilst working in the UAE. Again, do the math.
· If one is accused of inciting unrest in the labour force, such as a complaint about the above mentioned living conditions (and here it must be emphasised that an “accusation” is all that is required, not any kind of process, or conviction, or even proof) one is deported, after a mandatory three-month incarceration (to ensure that others don’t see it as a way out). After deportation, one must face that “visa arranger” who one still owes a (relative) fortune to. So the only way out of the desperation for these fathers, brothers and sons trying to support their family back home, is often suicide. In which case the family back home is pursued for the money owed.
Compare that to whatever standard you choose – including 19th century USA – and tell me it’s not slavery.
Those conditions are much better in many ways than the desperate lives of the African, Chinese, or East European “working-girls”. Under-age, brought to the UAE under promises of work as cashiers or maids, or office workers.
Lastly, those immigrant workers in the UK, or the US, Canada, etc, can and do get exposure of their situation, and innumerable advocates on their behalf. And thence hearings and investigations. If you tried that same “saviour” role in the UAE you would be very lucky indeed if you were simply jailed for a few months before being deported.
I know whereof I speak. And I would be the happiest ppruner in the world if Mr. Flanagan would debate me publicly. But the chances of that happening are about the same as the Maktoum family giving up their Magic Kingdom to democracy and responsible government.
In conclusion I have to say that I have tried very hard to rein in my emotions whilst typing this. If Mr. Flanagan is of sound mind, yet said those things, he disgusts me.
grizz
Logically there are only two possibilities: Either Maurice Flanagan is mentally unstable, i.e. removed from reality somehow, or he is lying. I know those are the only possibilities because I know that what he said in that interview isn't true.
As with many posters on this thread, I know Dubai and the UAE very well. I would say "intimately" but that word is no more appropriate in reference to knowing Dubai than it is to knowing a hooker.
I will leave untouched his utter crap about the hotels and flights, the malls and the schools. I cannot leave unchallenged his comments about workers and their rights. To suggest that “construction workers here are protected by legislation” and that their conditions are much better than “the truly appalling conditions afflicting thousands of immigrant workers in England” is worse than a lie; it’s a denial of the servitude and slavery that are an integral part of what makes Dubai work (or made it work). I use the word “slavery” in a most intentional and considered way. The terms under which construction workers are brought to Dubai, and the conditions under which they live and work, meet the definition of slavery in every way. The fact that the UK, the US, Canada, Australia, Western Europe etc, all refuse to take the UAE to task is both telling and abominable. (And, like it or not, we as ex-pat workers from those more privileged places, must acknowledge our own part in this 21st century slave business.)
The correlation between the USA of the early 19th century, for instance, and the UAE of today is unequivocal. The conditions under which slaves lived and worked on Southern plantations back then can be summarised this way: Landowners and slave-owners treated those people as poorly as they could get away with, whilst obeying what laws there were, and not having their workers die off from disease or injury. Which meant that only basic food, shelter and clothing needs were met. If some workers had better conditions than that it was not because of legislation, it was because of one person’s own morals and decisions. In essence slavery means, in this case, treating people as badly as one can get away with; denying whatever human rights one can successfully deny in a given jurisdiction. The business owner provides only as much of the basic human needs as are minimally required without running afoul of whatever “law enforcement” or authorities that may exist.
In the case of modern-day Dubai what that means is, specifically:
· Twelve hour work days (that’s 12 hours on the job, plus whatever travel time in that big old non-a/c-equipped bus) for a minimum of six days per week, often seven days per week.
· Fifteen to thirty men per three to four bedroom “apartment”. One kitchen. Many little gas stoves on the floor for cooking. One toilet. Which also means sewage lines that back up (yes I’ve seen it, smelled it, walked through it).
· Starting wage of approx 800 AED per month, rising to 1200 after a year or two, and as much as 2000 after 3 or 4 years. Minus a deduction of 10 AED per day for the above accommodation. So, a net income of 500 to 1700 AED per month. (For those not familiar with the “pegged-to–the-US Dollar” exchange rate, it’s roughly 3.7 AED dirhams to one US dollar.) Do the math.
· An up-front payment to a “visa arranger” in the home country of between 3000 and 5000 USD, to be one of the “chosen” who gets to pursue the dream of a better life. Not for one’s self but for one’s family back home. To be paid back in installments whilst working in the UAE. Again, do the math.
· If one is accused of inciting unrest in the labour force, such as a complaint about the above mentioned living conditions (and here it must be emphasised that an “accusation” is all that is required, not any kind of process, or conviction, or even proof) one is deported, after a mandatory three-month incarceration (to ensure that others don’t see it as a way out). After deportation, one must face that “visa arranger” who one still owes a (relative) fortune to. So the only way out of the desperation for these fathers, brothers and sons trying to support their family back home, is often suicide. In which case the family back home is pursued for the money owed.
Compare that to whatever standard you choose – including 19th century USA – and tell me it’s not slavery.
Those conditions are much better in many ways than the desperate lives of the African, Chinese, or East European “working-girls”. Under-age, brought to the UAE under promises of work as cashiers or maids, or office workers.
Lastly, those immigrant workers in the UK, or the US, Canada, etc, can and do get exposure of their situation, and innumerable advocates on their behalf. And thence hearings and investigations. If you tried that same “saviour” role in the UAE you would be very lucky indeed if you were simply jailed for a few months before being deported.
I know whereof I speak. And I would be the happiest ppruner in the world if Mr. Flanagan would debate me publicly. But the chances of that happening are about the same as the Maktoum family giving up their Magic Kingdom to democracy and responsible government.
In conclusion I have to say that I have tried very hard to rein in my emotions whilst typing this. If Mr. Flanagan is of sound mind, yet said those things, he disgusts me.
grizz
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The real story about Dubai
You have to wait until 9 min 24 sec into the clip before you get to the meaty bit.
It was filmed a year or two ago, but I think most people living in Dubai would say that the narrator's closing comments, saying that improvements in workers' conditions were just around the corner, would not be true.
You have to wait until 9 min 24 sec into the clip before you get to the meaty bit.
It was filmed a year or two ago, but I think most people living in Dubai would say that the narrator's closing comments, saying that improvements in workers' conditions were just around the corner, would not be true.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Dubai
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Saw this in the Daily Telegraph, just to cheer us up.....!
"The bosses of Dubai World have agreed to meet its main creditors next week. The bondholders, which are being represented by Ashurst, are also thought to include some of the world's biggest pension fund managers including Blackrock, Pioneer and Fidelity"
"The bosses of Dubai World have agreed to meet its main creditors next week. The bondholders, which are being represented by Ashurst, are also thought to include some of the world's biggest pension fund managers including Blackrock, Pioneer and Fidelity"
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: DXB
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The correlation between the USA of the early 19th century, for instance, and the UAE of today is unequivocal.
There is still a difference between slaves brutally brought in and "volunteers".
What other options do you recommend to these guys whom aren't welcome in our western world (always ready to give morals)?
Don't tell me there aren't "white" architects, project managers CEOs in this slavery industry. Are they also forced to accept their high wages against the poor conditions of their workers?
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: KUL
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SFLY: I get your point. But I don't think it is brown skin against white skin. Every ethnical group in existence had its little 'Auschwitz' over the course of history. And its true: We all drove to work day after day, seeing those labourers and knowing exactly what their living conditions were. What did we do about it? F.A.
My personal mantra: Everybody in Dubai, as miserable as he may be, is just a little better off than he would be at home.
In the end we were all hoping that the Maktoums could pull it off and utopia became reality.
Well ... maybe there is still a chance for lessons to be learned and course corrections to be made in time. Just maybe...
My personal mantra: Everybody in Dubai, as miserable as he may be, is just a little better off than he would be at home.
In the end we were all hoping that the Maktoums could pull it off and utopia became reality.
Well ... maybe there is still a chance for lessons to be learned and course corrections to be made in time. Just maybe...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: DXB
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just give it up buddy.
You are trying to defend the indefensible.
You are trying to defend the indefensible.
Don't you think it's part of your bank's job to manage your money wisely? Do you think these banks acted responsibly by playing with people's savings? Those bankers enjoyed bonuses and comfortable expat salaries, they loved closing big deals with Sheikh Mo. All the big show-off stuff (Airshow, cityscape etc.) is organized from abroad by foreign companies, all the big projects like the Dubai Metro were advised by foreign companies (UK rail) and financed by foreign banks. And you're trying to tell me it's UAE's fault if those guys didn't check where they were stepping in with other people's money? You must be kidding.