Emirates: Preferred Employer in UAE
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His point is the airline is 24 years old...and he is 18. That's his point...that he's making, the one he is making here on Pprune, with his post. That's his point. Come on keep up.
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I concur with SS. Much the same time in the company and much the same observations. This company is in a spiral and the management seem to just keep on pulling. They better level the wings soon or this one ain't gonna pull out.
Hard to see how morale could get any worse.
Hard to see how morale could get any worse.
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I know it's a trite and grossly over-used statement, but it describes the current situation almost to a 'T':
"The whippings will contiue until morale improves."
In my opinion, they're almost guaranteeing themselves another incident, as virtually every pilot in the airline is distracted, looking over their shoulders worrying about how they'll explain themselves to those on 'The Tent Floor' rather than getting on with the job. I know I've pushed myself on occasions in the past trying to make the system work, like really cutting things fine to make a departure right on curfew for example. I would not do so in the current climate. Like I suspect almost every other captain (and even moreso, FO) in the airline today, I will work strictly to the rules, taking my time to double check everything.
Those who'd care to troll through the Pprune archives will see that three years ago(?), an embittered ex EK pilot posted here complaining about the circumstances of his dismissal. (He's posted again in the last week or so on another under his new PPRuNe handle, 'Bitburger'.) He received virtually no support from any EK pilot when he made his complaints then, as many pilots, myself among them, defended the company.
I don't believe he'd find anyone doing so now.
"The whippings will contiue until morale improves."
In my opinion, they're almost guaranteeing themselves another incident, as virtually every pilot in the airline is distracted, looking over their shoulders worrying about how they'll explain themselves to those on 'The Tent Floor' rather than getting on with the job. I know I've pushed myself on occasions in the past trying to make the system work, like really cutting things fine to make a departure right on curfew for example. I would not do so in the current climate. Like I suspect almost every other captain (and even moreso, FO) in the airline today, I will work strictly to the rules, taking my time to double check everything.
Those who'd care to troll through the Pprune archives will see that three years ago(?), an embittered ex EK pilot posted here complaining about the circumstances of his dismissal. (He's posted again in the last week or so on another under his new PPRuNe handle, 'Bitburger'.) He received virtually no support from any EK pilot when he made his complaints then, as many pilots, myself among them, defended the company.
I don't believe he'd find anyone doing so now.
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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Keep Discovering "The Trend"
Obviously all is about money around here. Once you are here, you accept it or leave it! Well we all know that fact by now. Very sad i agree. Lately more then ever EK is reminding us by changing the goal post every email we receive. It took me a long time to accept this kind of mentality. Conditions were going down when EK was making billions $$$ of profits. Remember why we are here. Money. Dubai is only about money, and we all know that. Now EK is loosing big $$$ and they have inexperienced managers in these type of waters. Unfortunately management is making big basic mistakes. They killed the confidence bond with their pilots while making a 400M$ profit. Morale is at all time low. People a stressed going to work. Safety has a cost. They have missed the opportunity to motivate their pilots by investing some of that profit money in saving the morale. Hiring is at a stand still. 16 B777 coming with bare minimum additions of pilots in the next 12 months. The pilot force will get more stress in the coming months by working to maximum legal limits EK style for less money. What is next... well time will tell, but again we all know as experienced pilots and it won't be a surprise. Remember you are on your own here, not like in other major airlines. We have seen it before. They have very very big commitment ahead with all these orders. But it happens that the guys down the road have the same. But they have the cash and can afford it. We can't, simple! We all knew as experienced pilots that this time was going to happen at one point where reality would kick in. Well it's here BIG TIME. The company can't rely on the government for money anymore. Actually I'm pretty sure it's the other way around now. The boat has passed for the "great opportunity" for pilots at EK. Aviation is all about timing. I got here 10 years ago. It was right time right place. Today if you come to EK and sit in the flight deck beside me and expect anything but 7-8 years to upgrade i will smile. I will understand your concerns. But i will tell myself wrong place bad timing. With the credit crunch around the world there will be good opportunities in certain type of companies coming up. I think EK has become too big too fast for the type of management in charge. They created a monster and now they have to live with it. It won't ever get better for pilots here that is a fact. Next step will be lowering the experience minimums to fill the seats in the name of money. Put more heat on the PIC. But we all know that. Only one thing left to do for us, save as much money as you can while here so you can exit at one point. Oh yea, one more thing 
they say that they will back you up if you stick to SOP, but remember that all mistakes made are always outside SOP, clever hein Don't let greed delay your move if you can't handle this type of pressure, use your only option 
There is life after EK. Serious times ahead for all.
Quiz time : Can you tell me one improvement in the T&C of the pilots in the last 5 years. Just one
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they say that they will back you up if you stick to SOP, but remember that all mistakes made are always outside SOP, clever hein Don't let greed delay your move if you can't handle this type of pressure, use your only option There is life after EK. Serious times ahead for all.Quiz time : Can you tell me one improvement in the T&C of the pilots in the last 5 years. Just one
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Seeing ekpilot's comment about ever moving goalposts reminded me how some things are constant. This is the last paragraph of 'The Caravan', the sticky that appears at the top of the Middle East forum, and written by a disaffected pilot about EK almost 20 years ago.
Time passed, and the ever suffering effohs wearied of the promises of the Master Cameleer. Some lost hope and many found other roads to tread as new caravans started up in their own Lands. As they took their leave, they cried aloud as one: "We seekest roads on which the Golepostes art not fixed upon the backs of swift moving camels!"
Join Date: Feb 2009
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EK Already!
a very wise EX airline CEO said, "if you want to be a millionair, become a billionair and start an airline"...everybody at that time said that he was stupid! and who is laughing now?
i had a huge arguement with my GF, who just joined EK engineering department. I told her that in comparison with other airlines with limited resources, EK is not that efficient. Her arguement was that American Airlines sucks because of their efficiency, and EK is the best because of their efficiency. My argument was this, that EK is better because they have access to "not better" but cheaper resources and their operations and management is based on a bottomless bank account. American Airlines, with the resources of emirates, could be a much better airline.
My point, EK has to finally come to realize that market forces and conditions have come to pay them a visit, and for you EK pilots, this it the time to decide if you would like to work for an airline which is in a financial battle for the first time or for an airline that is already battle hardened! the choice is yours, this grass was green, but the camels have come and shi
ed and pucked and grazed, and now there is nothing left for you goats!
PEACE
i had a huge arguement with my GF, who just joined EK engineering department. I told her that in comparison with other airlines with limited resources, EK is not that efficient. Her arguement was that American Airlines sucks because of their efficiency, and EK is the best because of their efficiency. My argument was this, that EK is better because they have access to "not better" but cheaper resources and their operations and management is based on a bottomless bank account. American Airlines, with the resources of emirates, could be a much better airline.
My point, EK has to finally come to realize that market forces and conditions have come to pay them a visit, and for you EK pilots, this it the time to decide if you would like to work for an airline which is in a financial battle for the first time or for an airline that is already battle hardened! the choice is yours, this grass was green, but the camels have come and shi
ed and pucked and grazed, and now there is nothing left for you goats! PEACE
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Well, Mr Knuckle, it's really irrelevant whether EK or the government is responsible for inflation (I could take issue, but that's a whole other thread). Inflation is a fact. And if you are looking at your pay and it's increase, without regard to inflation, then you are, as I said, financially illiterate. Not going to continue arguing why. Not arguing that EK is obliged to keep up with it, or any other such nonsense. Just replying to your stance that T&Cs at EK have increased in the years mentioned.
BTW, considering ONLY food and beverages: F&B increased 17.3% in the last quarter of 2008, alone. (source ERG-Hermes). Makes the 12% for the year increase you quote look, well, miserly. How do you like them apples (pun intended ;-) )
BTW, considering ONLY food and beverages: F&B increased 17.3% in the last quarter of 2008, alone. (source ERG-Hermes). Makes the 12% for the year increase you quote look, well, miserly. How do you like them apples (pun intended ;-) )
Join Date: Oct 2005
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beechjock
I've been roun' here nigh on 13 years. It was real good fer a while, pretty good fer a while an' now it's pretty bad.
So far this year (2009)
1. Loss of productivity pay, about an 18% reduction in monthly earnin's.
2. Loss of ticket to my Annual Leave Destination. I only get part of the way now an' have to pay my own way. Several Canadian's 'n Americans in this boat. This really sucks. It's been a hallmark of expatriate life that an employer send a professional home at least once per year, all the way home, on the company dime. This has been sacred... till Emirates found out they were only makin' hunderds of millions instead of billions.
3. Restriction on utilies bill introduced, in contravention of the contract. Mine says I get accommodation an' utilities paid. Don't mention no changes. I'm probably under the limit anyway, but it's principal.
4. Institutionalized discrimination: locals get better pay and pensions. Us expats get the square root of $#%& - all. Our provident fund is seriously not enough money to do anythin' on once ya retire. 'Cept maybe buy a tent er somethin'.
Management don't listen, don't wanna listen. There's no ear here for anythin' from the workers side of anything.
2009 is gonna be a bad year. Loads 'r down, yeilds 'r down and some airframe delivery delays are planned in 2010 fer 'bout a year or so (at present anyhow).
I reckon we're gonna see some serious decline in revenue an' associated options.
I don't give advice - yer a grown person. But heed the facts.
Good luck 'n Happy Contrails.
k-o-t-s
I've been roun' here nigh on 13 years. It was real good fer a while, pretty good fer a while an' now it's pretty bad.
So far this year (2009)
1. Loss of productivity pay, about an 18% reduction in monthly earnin's.
2. Loss of ticket to my Annual Leave Destination. I only get part of the way now an' have to pay my own way. Several Canadian's 'n Americans in this boat. This really sucks. It's been a hallmark of expatriate life that an employer send a professional home at least once per year, all the way home, on the company dime. This has been sacred... till Emirates found out they were only makin' hunderds of millions instead of billions.
3. Restriction on utilies bill introduced, in contravention of the contract. Mine says I get accommodation an' utilities paid. Don't mention no changes. I'm probably under the limit anyway, but it's principal.
4. Institutionalized discrimination: locals get better pay and pensions. Us expats get the square root of $#%& - all. Our provident fund is seriously not enough money to do anythin' on once ya retire. 'Cept maybe buy a tent er somethin'.
Management don't listen, don't wanna listen. There's no ear here for anythin' from the workers side of anything.
2009 is gonna be a bad year. Loads 'r down, yeilds 'r down and some airframe delivery delays are planned in 2010 fer 'bout a year or so (at present anyhow).
I reckon we're gonna see some serious decline in revenue an' associated options.
I don't give advice - yer a grown person. But heed the facts.
Good luck 'n Happy Contrails.
k-o-t-s
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Hard of thinking?........uh hmmm.
The correct answer, to anyone with other than a child's view of pay/T&Cs, is that you cannot know, without a frame of reference. The answer might be A. If inflation was running at -50% for condition A, and at 25% for condition B and C, then A is the correct answer.
How can I answer so the simple understand? If you only look at how much more money you get in your hand, without regard to how much everything costs- and therefor how much money leaves your hand- then I can't help you. Especially when the people giving, are the people taking. You would be/are a dream employee.
So here's the tricky part - which of the following BEST describes an improvement in terms and/or conditions?
How else can I put it so even the simple understand? Okay, when they paid you more cash, did your position go backward or forward or even just backward but not as much as before?
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Mr Knuckle, ouf ouf, what an emotionally based reactions. Might that be because you send all your money home and have nothing left to "improve" your lifestyle while you are in Dubai? 
My (and I guess for the the majority of human kind) definition of improvement is:
a change for the better; progress in development
the act of improving something; "their improvements increased the value of the property"
a condition superior to an earlier condition; "the new school represents a great improvement"
source: wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Not even covering inflation does not fall under that definition for me ...
p.s. Where did you get those inflation figures from? I'm impressed. You in all your wisdom should know that inflation can be "creatively" calculated in everyones own advantage. How do you think it is calculated in the UAE?
Probably it is their approximate because their memory isn't that accurate but close enough ... selectively...
I'm glad though that there is some people still very happy in Dubai ... I think that's the trick guys, send all your money home, only buy F&B and happiness is there...
My (and I guess for the the majority of human kind) definition of improvement is:
a change for the better; progress in development
the act of improving something; "their improvements increased the value of the property"
a condition superior to an earlier condition; "the new school represents a great improvement"
source: wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
Not even covering inflation does not fall under that definition for me ...
p.s. Where did you get those inflation figures from? I'm impressed. You in all your wisdom should know that inflation can be "creatively" calculated in everyones own advantage. How do you think it is calculated in the UAE?
Probably it is their approximate because their memory isn't that accurate but close enough ... selectively...
I'm glad though that there is some people still very happy in Dubai ... I think that's the trick guys, send all your money home, only buy F&B and happiness is there...
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Round in circles.
So, you believe that pay increases at rates less than inflation are an increase in T&Cs?
Ok, then, I'll leave you to it. Sorry if the 'financial illiterate' comment stung, but if the shoe fits....
So, you believe that pay increases at rates less than inflation are an increase in T&Cs?
Ok, then, I'll leave you to it. Sorry if the 'financial illiterate' comment stung, but if the shoe fits....
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PorkKnuckle
I could be wrong but you look like the type that always wants to be right? I have no idea why I get that impression... 
Then also, the only one who seems to react worked up is you my dear Knuckle ... maybe you should use some of your money to enjoy yourself and relax i.s.o. being so emotional.
"Suckers"? ... not a nice word you naughty boy
But who are suckers? Anyone who does not agree with your point of view?
I can see and understand your point but I think you have to understand that others might see it differently?
About your comment on the "english" ... no clue what that has to do with it ... it might be because I'm not so intelligent
Live and let live and enjoy your house full of F&B and the money you send home.
Then also, the only one who seems to react worked up is you my dear Knuckle ... maybe you should use some of your money to enjoy yourself and relax i.s.o. being so emotional.
"Suckers"? ... not a nice word you naughty boy
But who are suckers? Anyone who does not agree with your point of view?I can see and understand your point but I think you have to understand that others might see it differently?
About your comment on the "english" ... no clue what that has to do with it ... it might be because I'm not so intelligent
Live and let live and enjoy your house full of F&B and the money you send home.
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It's called productivity...
Guys, it's not because they pay you more money that you make more money. Let me rephrase my question. Find me one positive change in the T&C in the last five years? Remember that if they pay you 12% more money to do 13% more work... well that is not an improvement. Anyways! Think and name one positive improvement in the T&C in the last 5 years. ( Ex: vacations, bid system, credit for pelesys, days off guaranteed before leave or something ) You guys will be surprise of how much we lost compare to not one improvement.
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Keep Discovering
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Deleted posts?
Dear Mr Knuckle,
Wondering why your posts have disappeared, just when we started to have some fun! ...
Pity that the discussion thread doesn't make sense anymore.
Wondering why your posts have disappeared, just when we started to have some fun! ...
Pity that the discussion thread doesn't make sense anymore.
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Maybe he's finally been adversely affected himself by one of the EK management's new policies, possibly the new upgrade policy. It's only a matter of time before they do something that affects you individually, no matter how hard you try to stay happy with your choice to be here.
