Saudia

[metro301]

Originally Posted by atakacs

Seems that there is major turmoil in the country.

Any impact (yet?) on day to day operations

Zero impact.... Zero Turmoil.

[zerograv]

Saudi Prince Killed in Helicopter Crash near Yemen Border

Local newspaper Okaz reported the helicopter carrying Prince Mansour bin Muqrin Al Saud, deputy governor of Asir province, went down while the officials were taking a tour of an area near the coast in Asir, which borders Yemen.

Just an unfortunate coincidence of events ... or is there more into it ? ...

[Flaperon777]

I hear that all expats contracrpts henceforth will be terminated ( not renewed ) on reaching their natural completion.
Of course these are baseless rumors until I actually see or meet a pilot whose contract hasn't been renewed.
But any truth in this ?
Pray tell

[polax52]

Originally Posted by Flaperon777

I hear that all expats contracrpts henceforth will be terminated ( not renewed ) on reaching their natural completion.
Of course these are baseless rumors until I actually see or meet a pilot whose contract hasn't been renewed.
But any truth in this ?
Pray tell

I believe that the problem is, for the expats, that the company expresses no clear position towards us. Are we staying or are we going?

The reality is that foreign Pilots working for Saudia is a political hot potato. The country is at a very sensitive moment. It was previously stated by the company that all expat Pilots would be gone by 2020 and to give contracts beyond 2020 is not currently tenable.

[Semaphore Sam]

I hired on in June '78; we were told there would be no expat crew left by the beginning of 1981. Sam

[azhkman]

Originally Posted by Semaphore Sam

I hired on in June '78; we were told there would be no expat crew left by the beginning of 1981. Sam

My parents both worked for Saudia in Jeddah from the early '70s to the late '80s and I recall my dad saying Nationalization was coming to the airline around 1987/88.

I just don't think it is possible in the Kingdom especially with the training involved to become a pilot at the commercial air transport level, combined with the low level of interest from actual Saudis.

[Romasik]

I see it’s actually coming this time, although couple of years ago it didn’t look possible. Push from the highest level is strong. Plus CCQ which makes things naturally faster.
There may be some short time backtrack when they see aircraft parked because of the crew shortage, but the general direction is clear and technlogy for that is already around. First officers will definitely go first, followed by seniour captains (offered 40k basic salary contract or just restricted by age), then the rest.
It’s already happening. New low basic salary contract is offered at least to seniour captains and it’s only one year long despite proposed two. You cannot plan to stay in this job beyond one year horizon.
Consider also the general Saudi economic downturn and new more efficient companies on the market.
It’s time to pack bags. Saudia glorious expat story is history...

[polax52]

Originally Posted by Romasik

I see it’s actually coming this time, although couple of years ago it didn’t look possible. Push from the highest level is strong. Plus CCQ which makes things naturally faster.
There may be some short time backtrack when they see aircraft parked because of the crew shortage, but the general direction is clear and technlogy for that is already around. First officers will definitely go first, followed by seniour captains (offered 40k basic salary contract or just restricted by age), then the rest.
It’s already happening. New low basic salary contract is offered at least to seniour captains and it’s only one year long despite proposed two. You cannot plan to stay in this job beyond one year horizon.
Consider also the general Saudi economic downturn and new more efficient companies on the market.
It’s time to pack bags. Saudia glorious expat story is history...

I think that it's very difficult to understand what they really want. Certainly they want to Saudiize the company as soon as possible. However I don't think that Saudia can produce more that 100 or so new Captains each year. The company currently receives one new aircraft every 10 days, each requiring 8-10 Captains. They also want to expand Flyadeal to 50 aircraft by 2020. They do need the Pilots they have.

I believe that there has been a lot of frustration in senior management with the expat Pilots regarding the Riyadh base. They see a lack of cooperation. A lot of apartments in Riyadh, rented by Saudia are unfilled. There is also frustration over the number of applications to Flyadeal.

In the end, my opinion of the way the Management are thinking is that the contract Pilots currently employed are either at the wrong base or in the wrong company. Saudia have enough Saudi "Saudia" Pilots based in Jeddah, they don't require contract Pilots for that role.

[Flaperon777]

Originally Posted by Romasik

I see it’s actually coming this time, although couple of years ago it didn’t look possible. Push from the highest level is strong. Plus CCQ which makes things naturally faster.
There may be some short time backtrack when they see aircraft parked because of the crew shortage, but the general direction is clear and technlogy for that is already around. First officers will definitely go first, followed by seniour captains (offered 40k basic salary contract or just restricted by age), then the rest.
It’s already happening. New low basic salary contract is offered at least to seniour captains and it’s only one year long despite proposed two. You cannot plan to stay in this job beyond one year horizon.
Consider also the general Saudi economic downturn and new more efficient companies on the market.
It’s time to pack bags. Saudia glorious expat story is history...

Romasik. Just a quick question.
Are you PERSONALLY aware of anyone who has been offered or who has signed the shortened contract or two year contract? Or is it simply rumours that you are quoting. Just curious.

[Romasik]

Originally Posted by Flaperon777

Romasik. Just a quick question.
Are you PERSONALLY aware of anyone who has been offered or who has signed the shortened contract or two year contract? Or is it simply rumours that you are quoting. Just curious.

Absolutely! One of my friends was just offered this 40.000 SAR basic salary one year contract. He is over 60 Gregorian thought. It may not apply to younger pilots. Not sure.
More then that, there are actually about 60 of them! Looks like different age groups, as it would be too much to have that big number of seniors only. I saw the list with their names in HR, when I went there to ask about my personal future. They didn’t even understand what I was talking about, as they were obviously overwhelmed with their current problem with these 60 guys.
The biggest issue at the moment is the end of the service money, which is based on the last basic salary. It was advised by the highest Fl Ops mangement not sign this new contract until they sort out how to pay the final exit bonus.
And just today I heard that two expat captains in their forties were not offered the new contract. This may be some personal issues, I guess, but it’s happening now and here. This job is not secure any more.

[polax52]

Originally Posted by Romasik

Absolutely! One of my friends was just offered this 40.000 SAR basic salary one year contract. He is over 60 Gregorian thought. It may not apply to younger pilots. Not sure.
More then that, there are actually about 60 of them! Looks like different age groups, as it would be too much to have that big number of seniors only. I saw the list with their names in HR, when I went there to ask about my personal future. They didn’t even understand what I was talking about, as they were obviously overwhelmed with their current problem with these 60 guys.
The biggest issue at the moment is the end of the service money, which is based on the last basic salary. It was advised by the highest Fl Ops mangement not sign this new contract until they sort out how to pay the final exit bonus.
And just today I heard that two expat captains in their forties were not offered the new contract. This may be some personal issues, I guess, but it’s happening now and here. This job is not secure any more.

There were reasons other than Saudiization behind the younger guys not having their contracts renewed. Certainly one of them. Let's just say that they will no longer tolerate "no shows" or anything equivalent in severity.

[TJ Steele]

Chaos

Originally Posted by flyboyike

Any pprune members working there? Any inside info on hiring policy, minimums, equipment etc? I am a CRJ F/O a breath from being furloughed. Just weighing different options.

It’s an interesting time in the Kingdom, but the airline is in chaos for expats. Forced base transfers to RUH without the compensation stated in company manual, no overtime (which is where you make the real money), and everything is focused on cutting costs. 106 resignations in the last two weeks, including locals.

[Romasik]

Originally Posted by TJ Steele

It’s an interesting time in the Kingdom, but the airline is in chaos for expats. Forced base transfers to RUH without the compensation stated in company manual, no overtime (which is where you make the real money), and everything is focused on cutting costs. 106 resignations in the last two weeks, including locals.

Also heard about 100 or so resignations. Everybody I talked to is actively looking for another job. It may not eventually materialize for some, but at the moment most of the guys are in a bailout mode. Many are already done with interviews and waiting for the job offer.
From the other hand the workforce reduction should not be that much painful as the passenger traffic is inevitably dropping. Expat numbers are already down by almost 2 million and by the end of 2018 is expected to reach 2.8. Saudis are also not flying much due to financial difficulties. You can see all this slowdown on streets of Jeddah and in Tahlia shops on weekends. They are far cry from the best days.
Looks like at least on Fl Ops level nobody is taking it into consideration yet. The planning is going as usual. But flights are being cancelled on daily basis with new aircraft keep coming and training going ahead, thus no overtime. I guess it will stabilize after some time on lower level probably with some aircraft orders cancellation.

[mutt]

@flaperon777, just saw someone’s extension that was for 6 months, but under the old terms and conditions.

[Flaperon777]

Thanks Mutt.
May I request his age if possible.
Thanks.

[mutt]

On his 2nd extension, so just above 60.

[Flaperon777]

What do you make of this ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/saud...-idUKL8N1NR4M5


Saudi returning to PROFIT ....????!!!!
��

[mutt]

Chinese airlines court disgruntled Cathay Pacific pilots with sky-high salaries | Arab News

Maybe they should come to Jeddah, I believe that they will find a lot of interested people

[2Bad2Sad]

I worked for Saudia for many years, 2 times.
Was a great company back in the early 90's Flying and in FCGT early 2004-2006, after that and Phuket Air Saudia flights, which was sever dangerous , Ha Ha
Did some Air Atlanta flights also for Saudia.
Mutt can probably guess who I am Ha Ha.
Sad to read so many problems there now.
Saudia was the best of the best back in those days.
Hope they get it together soon, will always look back at Saudia as best choice I ever made .
But even the locals I worked for in FCGT was professional just no or little flying experience.
Felt like I was FCGT manual revision person.
Best of luck Saudia , thanks for the good memories.

[mutt]

Mutt can probably guess who I am Ha Ha.

Yep, I can..... not too many FCGT guys who were young enough to fly.