Qatar Airways losing instructors
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The devil's advocate, or his messenger
My cup of tea indeed...
Both B.W. ( W.W. would be more correct) and I.M. came in through the same channel: a man called S.V. He runs an aviation consulting company out of the UK, is the private advisor to the CEO on most commercial and industrial decisions and who is the middleman between Airbus and QR (indeed, the person who takes between 1 and 3% commission on every plane sold to QR).
B.W. was chief pilot in the UK for a small company flying about 10 A319s. He is not well liked over there, both on a personal as well as professional note. He is considered un-charismatic and un-ethical and above all, he is not well liked by the UK CAA!
So far he can be counted as responsible for the following:
· The cancellation of our salary increase. This was designed by I.M. and A.A.J., approved partially by the CEO but stopped by B.W., because he claims that more than enough pilots are willing to join/the industry is slowing down/…
· The change in hotel policy as mentioned above. This is not final yet but is definitely in the pipeline!
· The super efficient rostering system that is coming our way!
So all in all a very management orientated person without much consideration for the crews, hereby confirming his reputation in the UK!
I.M. was chief pilot for a company in the UK, flying A320s. The big difference is that he is well liked in the UK, both in his previous company as well as at the UK CAA. He is a RE-TRE for the UK CAA (TRE checker) and is considered highly professional. He is more approachable compared to B.W. and more correct.
Both of them do not have very good people skills (did anybody see an introduction, presentation or explanation of who is who so far?)
And now the answer to the question we all have been waiting for.
To put it all in the correct context, first the following.
A chief pilot in this company, with a proven track record over years in the company, who knows this company and its people inside out, makes around 65000-70000QR/month and has exactly the same benefits as all of us!
Very strong but impossible to confirm rumors indicate the following:
I.M. salary: 140000QR/month with extra benefits, and paid in GBP (That’s what I call an ERP!)
B.W. salary: 180000QR/month (paid in GBP), all expenses paid ( BMW 730 IL, big villa,…)
Flight ops is a time bomb, waiting to explode any moment! That, together with what has been talked about on this forum, should assure us all a very interesting future!
Both B.W. ( W.W. would be more correct) and I.M. came in through the same channel: a man called S.V. He runs an aviation consulting company out of the UK, is the private advisor to the CEO on most commercial and industrial decisions and who is the middleman between Airbus and QR (indeed, the person who takes between 1 and 3% commission on every plane sold to QR).
B.W. was chief pilot in the UK for a small company flying about 10 A319s. He is not well liked over there, both on a personal as well as professional note. He is considered un-charismatic and un-ethical and above all, he is not well liked by the UK CAA!
So far he can be counted as responsible for the following:
· The cancellation of our salary increase. This was designed by I.M. and A.A.J., approved partially by the CEO but stopped by B.W., because he claims that more than enough pilots are willing to join/the industry is slowing down/…
· The change in hotel policy as mentioned above. This is not final yet but is definitely in the pipeline!
· The super efficient rostering system that is coming our way!
So all in all a very management orientated person without much consideration for the crews, hereby confirming his reputation in the UK!
I.M. was chief pilot for a company in the UK, flying A320s. The big difference is that he is well liked in the UK, both in his previous company as well as at the UK CAA. He is a RE-TRE for the UK CAA (TRE checker) and is considered highly professional. He is more approachable compared to B.W. and more correct.
Both of them do not have very good people skills (did anybody see an introduction, presentation or explanation of who is who so far?)
And now the answer to the question we all have been waiting for.
To put it all in the correct context, first the following.
A chief pilot in this company, with a proven track record over years in the company, who knows this company and its people inside out, makes around 65000-70000QR/month and has exactly the same benefits as all of us!
Very strong but impossible to confirm rumors indicate the following:
I.M. salary: 140000QR/month with extra benefits, and paid in GBP (That’s what I call an ERP!)
B.W. salary: 180000QR/month (paid in GBP), all expenses paid ( BMW 730 IL, big villa,…)
Flight ops is a time bomb, waiting to explode any moment! That, together with what has been talked about on this forum, should assure us all a very interesting future!
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Max,
Dodar is an analytical mental model to apply to emergency , or in fact any scenario. It is one of many but is widely used in the first world.
This chap didnt invent it. It does however signify the impending anglicisation of Qatar. Witness the road show interviews courting some 100 or so experienced widebodied crew in LHR last week all immediately available and some highly qualified. It would appear your OPC?LPC are about to get a little more UKJAR than you may be comfortable with. But then again its been admitted here that the training at QR is poor..allegedly...so its a good thing then ...isnt it? Must be a bit of a bummer ..all the trappings of jar but without the licence but heyho thats life.
Dodar is an analytical mental model to apply to emergency , or in fact any scenario. It is one of many but is widely used in the first world.
This chap didnt invent it. It does however signify the impending anglicisation of Qatar. Witness the road show interviews courting some 100 or so experienced widebodied crew in LHR last week all immediately available and some highly qualified. It would appear your OPC?LPC are about to get a little more UKJAR than you may be comfortable with. But then again its been admitted here that the training at QR is poor..allegedly...so its a good thing then ...isnt it? Must be a bit of a bummer ..all the trappings of jar but without the licence but heyho thats life.
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D.O.D.A.R
Max,
D.O.D.A.R. is a task sharing / organizing tool just to help you in case of emergency, e.g. like QA crew use N.I.T.E.S. in case of emergency.
The latters stand for: Diagnose, Options, Decide, Assign tasks, Review your decision.
In other words : do what you do during every sim check, using your CRM skills.
It is not a new term, you will find it in the 777 manual.
It is more or less an organizing tool, although I think it is too expensive to pay QR 90.000/ month to come up with only this in almost 10 months of service with the company.
D.O.D.A.R. is a task sharing / organizing tool just to help you in case of emergency, e.g. like QA crew use N.I.T.E.S. in case of emergency.
The latters stand for: Diagnose, Options, Decide, Assign tasks, Review your decision.
In other words : do what you do during every sim check, using your CRM skills.
It is not a new term, you will find it in the 777 manual.
It is more or less an organizing tool, although I think it is too expensive to pay QR 90.000/ month to come up with only this in almost 10 months of service with the company.
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Their salaries
Clostermann,
It seems that you have detailed information, so I will not debate it, I will just mention the figures I heard.
B.W. QR 140.000 + BMW 700 Series + Big luxurious company villa.
I.M. QR 90.000
A.J QR 80.000 (not much more than other management pilots).
I guess that is very unfair for a man like A.J. who is hard working, approachable and most of all a legitimate son of this company and fully understand its people.
It seems that you have detailed information, so I will not debate it, I will just mention the figures I heard.
B.W. QR 140.000 + BMW 700 Series + Big luxurious company villa.
I.M. QR 90.000
A.J QR 80.000 (not much more than other management pilots).
I guess that is very unfair for a man like A.J. who is hard working, approachable and most of all a legitimate son of this company and fully understand its people.
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Quote
A320 man:
A330 Man:
Clostermann:
No further comment !
Is there any one who cares about the future of QA?
A330 Man:
I understand that some managers don't practice what they preach, but I don't understand why deny others the same privilege especially after their hard work for the airline!!
Clostermann:
Flight ops is a time bomb, waiting to explode any moment! That, together with what has been talked about on this forum, should assure us all a very interesting future!
No further comment !
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checkmate
a brilliant move once again get a pit-bull and put him on top to make sure things are under control and a pro to improve so long stumbling training standards. The next move will be establishment of commonwealth empire within the flight OPS. Get ready boys lots of heads will roll.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!
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Goldsatr,
pure genius and sums up the industry these days andnot just qatar.
brits from XL sim checking as we speak. lt/tre etc etc.
Pimms all round.
pure genius and sums up the industry these days andnot just qatar.
brits from XL sim checking as we speak. lt/tre etc etc.
Pimms all round.
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to Farty Flaps
brits from XL sim checking as we speak. lt/tre etc etc.
They will bring their friends and colleges from XL, MD and others, they promised them to give them training positions asap, that is why they are undermining the whole concept of seniority.
I feel sorry for the 320 guys ….they are stuck forever on this grinding roster, while the pims and commonwealths will join as DEC on the 330 / 777 probably as instructors within 6 months, while the working class of this airline is watching.
Well….I don't think they will keep watching for a long time, I heard that we have already many resignations from the 320 fleet, many more will leave if this cunning plan continues.
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Let me ask both I.M. and B.W., was it possible in your previous airline to hire DEC jumping everyone to a bigger type without any consideration for any kind of seniority?
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As said before, the figures I was quoting where based on strong but stubborn rumors. And as they are virtually impossible to verify I posted them with that little sidenote.
I have to say that the figures as quoted by A320man seem to be a bit more realistic!
All in all I think we can all agree that these people are making much more money than we all do and that it remains a question to see wether this is all justified or not!
If now they will indeed do a controlled and organised invasion of QR FLIGHT OPS in true commonwealth "god save the queen" tradition than we are all screwed!
The only reason why I am still here and not in EK or CX is because I wanted to steer clear of the British Imperialism in aviation!
MAybe EY is not such a bad option after all....Mixed German/Malaysian/Australian Hoganism management for sure still beats the Nigels and their cheese boards!
I have to say that the figures as quoted by A320man seem to be a bit more realistic!
All in all I think we can all agree that these people are making much more money than we all do and that it remains a question to see wether this is all justified or not!
If now they will indeed do a controlled and organised invasion of QR FLIGHT OPS in true commonwealth "god save the queen" tradition than we are all screwed!
The only reason why I am still here and not in EK or CX is because I wanted to steer clear of the British Imperialism in aviation!
MAybe EY is not such a bad option after all....Mixed German/Malaysian/Australian Hoganism management for sure still beats the Nigels and their cheese boards!
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Let me correct myself to add " from xl amongst others as we speak".
There were roadshows last week with huge attendance .
The first sim rides from those interviews are begining. The team i believe are now in the States with more due for he uk and still many waiting to attend.
I dont think its a case of jobs for the boys just jobs for the unemployed brits there is a Huge pool of unemployed pilots with good experience about and they are only the first wave. Not just for QR but anyone else that opens their recruitment.
There were roadshows last week with huge attendance .
The first sim rides from those interviews are begining. The team i believe are now in the States with more due for he uk and still many waiting to attend.
I dont think its a case of jobs for the boys just jobs for the unemployed brits there is a Huge pool of unemployed pilots with good experience about and they are only the first wave. Not just for QR but anyone else that opens their recruitment.
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Hi mate,
I would say everybody with the right attitude as well as the right skills is more than welcome over here! We defenitely need as many professional pilots as we can get our hands on.
As long as everybody plays it by the rules (read respect the seniority system), just like you would do in any other major company, and hereby you dont see QR just as a cash cow or fastrack stepstone to higher goals, all will be fine!
Good luck to all of you...
Regarding I.M and B.W........dont know the details but I have to say that both of them seem to be nice and knowledgeable people. Salary issues on the side, maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt. One year would be considered a minimum. Off course this should be done under close scrutiny and a watchfull eye. QR can not be turned into an "old boys club"
I would say everybody with the right attitude as well as the right skills is more than welcome over here! We defenitely need as many professional pilots as we can get our hands on.
As long as everybody plays it by the rules (read respect the seniority system), just like you would do in any other major company, and hereby you dont see QR just as a cash cow or fastrack stepstone to higher goals, all will be fine!
Good luck to all of you...
Regarding I.M and B.W........dont know the details but I have to say that both of them seem to be nice and knowledgeable people. Salary issues on the side, maybe we should give them the benefit of the doubt. One year would be considered a minimum. Off course this should be done under close scrutiny and a watchfull eye. QR can not be turned into an "old boys club"
Last edited by Qatari515; 26th Sep 2008 at 17:20.
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QR515, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt but they are destroying the seniority list, ignoring the need of their staff and punishing the hard working. There is no doubt any more, their fleet transfer decision is affecting many pilots.
As you said, new pilots are more than welcome, but please don't jump the 320 experienced pilots and hire DECs Non Type Rated on the big types while they are watching.
I know many pilots on the 320 with more than 10,000 hours on heavy jets, including pic time on A300, 767, L 1011 why they are not transferred on the 330 and 777?
As for the 330 TREs, I wonder why the company wants to save money by not compensating their financial loss when they fly the 320, while willing to pay expensive full Type Rating for new joiners?
As you said, new pilots are more than welcome, but please don't jump the 320 experienced pilots and hire DECs Non Type Rated on the big types while they are watching.
I know many pilots on the 320 with more than 10,000 hours on heavy jets, including pic time on A300, 767, L 1011 why they are not transferred on the 330 and 777?
As for the 330 TREs, I wonder why the company wants to save money by not compensating their financial loss when they fly the 320, while willing to pay expensive full Type Rating for new joiners?
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The problem with QA is stubbornness, which leads to spending in the wrong direction.
Examples:
1- Pay full type rating for a new joiner, but deny the "loyal" company pilots a CCQ course to a bigger type.
2- Reduce the crew hotels category to 3 stars (most probably with least facilities) yet the crew has to be fresh, well rested with shiny looking uniform.
3- Threaten to train abinition pilots (even from the cabin crew) in many resignations occurs, but not to increase the salaries.
4- Spend too much on the high turn over number of pilots, but no provident fund and other seniority privileges!
5- Many other trifles as throwing away some catering items while the crew is not allowed to consume it…..forcing some pilots to pay extra QR 2000 to stay in a company accommodation…etc.
Why our management wants QA to give the same product of some neighboring airlines without offering the same benefits?
Examples:
1- Pay full type rating for a new joiner, but deny the "loyal" company pilots a CCQ course to a bigger type.
2- Reduce the crew hotels category to 3 stars (most probably with least facilities) yet the crew has to be fresh, well rested with shiny looking uniform.
3- Threaten to train abinition pilots (even from the cabin crew) in many resignations occurs, but not to increase the salaries.
4- Spend too much on the high turn over number of pilots, but no provident fund and other seniority privileges!
5- Many other trifles as throwing away some catering items while the crew is not allowed to consume it…..forcing some pilots to pay extra QR 2000 to stay in a company accommodation…etc.
Why our management wants QA to give the same product of some neighboring airlines without offering the same benefits?
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I've been out of this for a while so I have to ask the question, "515, have you gone over to the Dark Side?".
Just what have IM and WW done since arriving that is positive? Maybe I missed something again?
Convincing the CEO to stop the pay rise may be seen as a smart commercial move, but why not let the schooling increase go through, for example? Removing the bonds is good for some but what if you started your training on the 31st of August?
Why are we still training cadets on the 330 and to a syllabus designed for conversion not abinitio?
Please correct me or show me what you consider to be the good things these two 'good old boys' have done?
"Flight ops is a time bomb, waiting to explode any moment! That, together with what has been talked about on this forum, should assure us all a very interesting future!" PC: You of all people should remember the Chinese curse..........'may you live in interesting times' and that is surely where we are headed.
GB
Just what have IM and WW done since arriving that is positive? Maybe I missed something again?
Convincing the CEO to stop the pay rise may be seen as a smart commercial move, but why not let the schooling increase go through, for example? Removing the bonds is good for some but what if you started your training on the 31st of August?
Why are we still training cadets on the 330 and to a syllabus designed for conversion not abinitio?
Please correct me or show me what you consider to be the good things these two 'good old boys' have done?
"Flight ops is a time bomb, waiting to explode any moment! That, together with what has been talked about on this forum, should assure us all a very interesting future!" PC: You of all people should remember the Chinese curse..........'may you live in interesting times' and that is surely where we are headed.
GB
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I.M. might have been popular with his previous Company, but not with the employees. A pompous ass with no personality; He alone has been reponsible for major FUs since his arrival. The guy was only a trucky in the RAF, no big shakes (or was it a TankerW**ker). He will of course bring in his ex-RAF cronies and the like to bolster his weak position. He has already disposed of some Training Captains because he didn't like thier attitude (read into that they were a threat because they could see the truth)
He will be here until he retires (or is fired) so get used to him. He will continue promote people like S.D. because they use the same heavy handed techniques to control people (attempt); for example a Training Captain resigns and is threatened with a life of hell unless he rescinds his notice. The life of hell by the way, was demotion to be being a normal line Captain on the A320..... (Training Captain now on the way to another fleet soon)
Not a lot we can do here but expose these people and get on with our MCT layovers etc.
He will be here until he retires (or is fired) so get used to him. He will continue promote people like S.D. because they use the same heavy handed techniques to control people (attempt); for example a Training Captain resigns and is threatened with a life of hell unless he rescinds his notice. The life of hell by the way, was demotion to be being a normal line Captain on the A320..... (Training Captain now on the way to another fleet soon)
Not a lot we can do here but expose these people and get on with our MCT layovers etc.
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Many 320 trainers will follow this resigning training captain soon.
They are waiting for few weeks because of a promise to move their TREs soon to the next fleet.
Also Many 330 trainers are waiting for the removal of IM from his post, since the latest news indicates that he has failed his last medical check (heart problem).
I personally wish him to get well soon with a speedy recovery, in spite of the disagreement with him technically, but there is nothing personal.
They are waiting for few weeks because of a promise to move their TREs soon to the next fleet.
Also Many 330 trainers are waiting for the removal of IM from his post, since the latest news indicates that he has failed his last medical check (heart problem).
I personally wish him to get well soon with a speedy recovery, in spite of the disagreement with him technically, but there is nothing personal.