Qatar Airways losing instructors
Please remember, that people post things and say things to elicit a certain reaction. Please think before hitting the reply button! There are certain wind up merchants around here 
Carry on..
EGGW
Carry on..
EGGW
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Qatari515
QR515, thank you for your wise, respectable words, I agree with you on the " clown of the forum" description.
Also, you are correct regarding the difference in income between types, that is why many pilots don't like the 320 life style especially when there is no money compensation.
P.S. Thank you 330 man for your comment also.
Also, you are correct regarding the difference in income between types, that is why many pilots don't like the 320 life style especially when there is no money compensation.
P.S. Thank you 330 man for your comment also.
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Training. Why?
Why would any QR pilot decide to become a Training Captain? I have been thinking it over the last few months and it doesn't make sense!
First, the money.The increment to the basic salary as an instuctor is so little its insulting. That means that to earn the big money you need to work flat out during the whole month, and even then there is little difference between a TRI/TRE salary and the salary of a 330/340 line captain who has much more time off and doesn't scare himself silly training second officers every few days!
Second, career progression. As others have mentioned, right now it seems that the only parameter that decides who goes on which type is blind luck! You have 320 guys stuck on that forever, 330 guys that go on 777 or 340 or... SFE 320!? Based on what, seniority? Last one standing? who knows. What if QR buys regional jets? who is gonna go? 330 TRE's or 320. As the previous poster said, want to be an instructor? start on 320 and everybody moves up. Fair and easy.
Third, Risk exposure. Qr is well known as an airline that will quickly demote you or fire you if you have some kind of 'issue' during a flight. With the standards of the majority of trainees here, Training captains can be (and have been) demoted at any time. Want to hold on to that wide body command: don't become a training captain!
First, the money.The increment to the basic salary as an instuctor is so little its insulting. That means that to earn the big money you need to work flat out during the whole month, and even then there is little difference between a TRI/TRE salary and the salary of a 330/340 line captain who has much more time off and doesn't scare himself silly training second officers every few days!
Second, career progression. As others have mentioned, right now it seems that the only parameter that decides who goes on which type is blind luck! You have 320 guys stuck on that forever, 330 guys that go on 777 or 340 or... SFE 320!? Based on what, seniority? Last one standing? who knows. What if QR buys regional jets? who is gonna go? 330 TRE's or 320. As the previous poster said, want to be an instructor? start on 320 and everybody moves up. Fair and easy.
Third, Risk exposure. Qr is well known as an airline that will quickly demote you or fire you if you have some kind of 'issue' during a flight. With the standards of the majority of trainees here, Training captains can be (and have been) demoted at any time. Want to hold on to that wide body command: don't become a training captain!
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Hello !
The obvious reaction to the Training environment is to say - NO. However I have met some guys that are considering 'promotion' to the heady heights of being a Line Training Captain. Now, unless you are an Italian, blonde, and have been 'decorated', or perhaps with an Italian connection (A320) the future is bleak. The CTC is British but likes to s***w his own to secure his own position. He is also weak as a leader. There is NO future in Training.
He (IM) has done little other than prove that if you are a Training Captain you will get 'had' over a barrel. Training here is Mickey Mouse to say the least. Some of the Trainers want quality control, but current the DCT on the A320 wants only his own adgenda.
What has the Grief Training Captain done apart from making mistakes? I appreciate that, although it takes time, the Training has not improved since his expensive introduction.
Time to roll the 'cube' again.
He (IM) has done little other than prove that if you are a Training Captain you will get 'had' over a barrel. Training here is Mickey Mouse to say the least. Some of the Trainers want quality control, but current the DCT on the A320 wants only his own adgenda.
What has the Grief Training Captain done apart from making mistakes? I appreciate that, although it takes time, the Training has not improved since his expensive introduction.
Time to roll the 'cube' again.
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To the Tramp
DCT on the A320 wants only his own adgenda.
Tramp, would you explain further what is the hidden agenda of DCPT 320?
I saw in previous airlines that CP's and CPT are gaining benefits for themselves, I can relate to that, what I don't understand is why deny the other pilots "some" privileges too by listening to their desires that don't harm the company a bit?
e.g:
1-Fleet transfer: don't change the fleet transfer rules over night affecting hard working pilots and instructors.
1-Fleet transfer: don't change the fleet transfer rules over night affecting hard working pilots and instructors.
2-Resigning training without punishment: two line instructors resigned the LTC position on 320 after 1 year as per the rules, resulting in a punishment NOT to be selected again as trainers on the 330 (against the rules set by the management).
3-Don't block your senior instructor on their current fleet: the 320 TREs are clear example of what will happen to you if you think of giving the company rather than taking from it, (every junior capt or f/o passed them to the 330 and now, they MIGHT get the 330 rating as MFF only i.e one or two flights max per month on 330 but the rest will be back to the grind on the 320 FOREVER)!!
4-Allow the 330 TRE/TRI to transfer to 777 ( if no 777 vacancies available now, tell them to wait till June 2009 when the 777 delivery flow will increase again) creating a place for the normal flow from 320 to 330 then you will have much less problems talking those 320 TREs into MFF 320/330.
All these negative signs need to be looked at if we need to build a solid training team and make it attractive for others to join and give the company of their experience.
Last edited by A330 man; 20th Sep 2008 at 15:50. Reason: spelling correction
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Inst
QR will not be short in Inst for sure .
We will bring DE TRE from UK and numbers are there .
We can let some of Inst go to Etihad .... no prob. there are DE Inst in UK who will jojn QR stay 1-2 y get A330 and masalama !
We will bring DE TRE from UK and numbers are there .
We can let some of Inst go to Etihad .... no prob. there are DE Inst in UK who will jojn QR stay 1-2 y get A330 and masalama !
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Ronaldo, that is exactly what will happen, and it is loss of money for this airline, that is why we are giving heads up for the hi managements to stop this destruction from inside.
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First 320 traininer resignation.
The first 320 instructor resigned the training already and was threatened by his DCPT that he will not be moving to another type soon but will stay on the 320 as a line captain.
Way to go !! great appreciation from your boss !
After years of hard work, the reward is: loss of seniority and punishement.
I don't think it will look graet when the 320 training comes to a halt, and QA will send the pilots for the training and/or recurrent in a foriegn TRTO.
I hope that the voice of reason will prevail after all for the sake of the company, pilots and management at the same time.
Way to go !! great appreciation from your boss !
After years of hard work, the reward is: loss of seniority and punishement.
I don't think it will look graet when the 320 training comes to a halt, and QA will send the pilots for the training and/or recurrent in a foriegn TRTO.
I hope that the voice of reason will prevail after all for the sake of the company, pilots and management at the same time.
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Not the first
Airbus Master, this resignation may be the first in recent times, but the 320 was always like that, the TREs had to fight or resign in order to move to the next type, ask NM, RH, MN, HM, AZ...over the years.
But trainers kept accepting the offer to join the 320 since eventually they left the 320 for good as trainers on the next type.
What will happen now when they know there is no more guarantee of movement as TRE to the next type?? We will just watch the next few weeks, it will be interesting.
But trainers kept accepting the offer to join the 320 since eventually they left the 320 for good as trainers on the next type.
What will happen now when they know there is no more guarantee of movement as TRE to the next type?? We will just watch the next few weeks, it will be interesting.
Last edited by A330 man; 24th Sep 2008 at 07:25. Reason: spelling correction
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Fleet Transfer Rules
Did you read between the lines in the new fleet transfer rules memo?
Meaning: it is not your right to be transferred to another fleet, you may retire on the 320 while the company is hiring DECs to the 330/340 or 777 !
Meaning: IM and BW got the 320/330 CCQ, then any internal transfer (for the 777) is not bonded at all !! that was a clever move.
One may wonder what was the commercial need for them to get the 320/330 CCQ when the commercial need was and still to get more TREs on the 320 meanwhile hire DEC on other types? You figure it out.
I guess with the new rules the door is wide open to hire the friends from BM, XL, VC...etc. as DECs on the big types, .....of course commercial reasons !
5- Pilots may request fleet transfer but the company will normally decline the request where is no commercial requirement exists.
CCQ 320/330 (new joiner) is subject to a bond of 1 year from final line check or $15000
One may wonder what was the commercial need for them to get the 320/330 CCQ when the commercial need was and still to get more TREs on the 320 meanwhile hire DEC on other types? You figure it out.
I guess with the new rules the door is wide open to hire the friends from BM, XL, VC...etc. as DECs on the big types, .....of course commercial reasons !
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Trainers
I met a 320 trainer today, he told me that one of the good trusted guys gave him an advice to remain calm for few weeks; don't rush your resignations yet, things must improve in the training department to avoid disastrous results, just be patient.
Normally no one would buy such talk except when it comes from K.C. one of the few you can trust here if not the most trusted.
Weeks are not too long, if you are a 330 trainer: you have nothing to lose, if you are a 320 trainer: few weeks will not do much more damage, after all you worked for years in tough conditions, long days, min rest...etc.
Normally no one would buy such talk except when it comes from K.C. one of the few you can trust here if not the most trusted.
Weeks are not too long, if you are a 330 trainer: you have nothing to lose, if you are a 320 trainer: few weeks will not do much more damage, after all you worked for years in tough conditions, long days, min rest...etc.
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A320 Man, that is pretty much what you always hear in QR about anything, salary increase - "just wait a few weeks and see, we are getting +30%", fleet transfers - "yes they will speed up 320 to 330/777 any time now", upgrades - "yes, yes, soon we will start with more upgrades, just wait a few months and see", and there is always a "reliable source".
Something good is bound to happen here, sooner or later. Take two, give them back one, i guess they should give back a bit to some just to make the rest complacent .
Something good is bound to happen here, sooner or later. Take two, give them back one, i guess they should give back a bit to some just to make the rest complacent .
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Xaxa, I agree on what you said, but normally when Capt. K.C. says something, we believe him.
We will see this time if nothing changes for the trainers....I guess we will see massive trainer's migration.
We will see this time if nothing changes for the trainers....I guess we will see massive trainer's migration.
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You are right 320 man, K.C. proved to be a man of his word, he has no hidden agenda, and he doesn't crush his colleagues for his own benefit in the name of "commercial requirement". i.e. he did not transfer himself to another type then change the rules to apply to the hard working men and women of 320 for example.
All what we the trainers have to do now, is wait and see, if nothing changes,then go ahead ....everyone for himself.
All what we the trainers have to do now, is wait and see, if nothing changes,then go ahead ....everyone for himself.
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Think
A330 man you sound like a person that will understand reason, as does the Tramp I suspect. The worst person to have as a Training Captain is one that can not train. Witness the Italian. I think people like the Tramp have an idea of the truth. The training scene will change soon. 
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How much is their salary??
NoJoke, Thank you for your words, I also like the comments of Tramp.
I think you know inside information, I see changes in the near future for the 320 training. We will see.
Another subject: when I.M. and B.W. arrived here we expected highly experienced people with great vision for both the company and the staff…etc.
I can't tell much about B.W. since he did not make big decisions yet (except the rumors that he will change the 5 stars crew hotels to 3 stars).
I still blame him of course for signing the new fleet transfer "unfair" rules but for now I will assume that someone sold him the idea and he signed unaware of the sequences.
As for I.M. I saw a limited vision, very slow worker and slow decision maker, low training experience (at least as an Airbus pilot) lack of charisma, selfish behavior, lack of support to his people…etc.
But my important question here is this:
For all the damage taking place in the flight ops (especially the training department) I want to know how much is their monthly salary??
Are they charging the airline the same salary like A.J.? or did the people who hired them thought maybe it is a cheaper option to get a low cost carrier mentality to QA?
I am just curious, how much is their salary?.
I think you know inside information, I see changes in the near future for the 320 training. We will see.
Another subject: when I.M. and B.W. arrived here we expected highly experienced people with great vision for both the company and the staff…etc.
I can't tell much about B.W. since he did not make big decisions yet (except the rumors that he will change the 5 stars crew hotels to 3 stars).
I still blame him of course for signing the new fleet transfer "unfair" rules but for now I will assume that someone sold him the idea and he signed unaware of the sequences.
As for I.M. I saw a limited vision, very slow worker and slow decision maker, low training experience (at least as an Airbus pilot) lack of charisma, selfish behavior, lack of support to his people…etc.
But my important question here is this:
For all the damage taking place in the flight ops (especially the training department) I want to know how much is their monthly salary??
Are they charging the airline the same salary like A.J.? or did the people who hired them thought maybe it is a cheaper option to get a low cost carrier mentality to QA?
I am just curious, how much is their salary?.