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Qatar Airways extra fuel restriction

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Qatar Airways extra fuel restriction

Old 24th Aug 2008, 21:04
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Qatar Airways extra fuel restriction

Dear C. Technical pilot thank you for Z worst memo i saw in QA in my 8 y flying for QA regarding fuel policy .
Yes you Mr C Tech pilot dont need fuel at all as you seat in office 365 days a year and youre licence expired for Z 2nd times already . It is easy to seat and send letters to other pilots who fly on every day roster "youre extra fuel on LHR sector was found not to be required and we want you to change youre policy " well seat ond fly and then tell us .
Any crash happened due to short of fuel we know who will be on news !
Fuel price today is 112 $ what we need to save any more ?
New pilots,new commanders,new inst,... You are asking for trouble my friend .

I dont give a s....t about youre violation of procedure coz i want to live !
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Old 25th Aug 2008, 09:27
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How full do ya want it? Full as a fat girls sock please!!!

5 useless things to a safe pilot:
1. Runway behind you
2. Sky above you
3. Air in the fuel tanks
4. Engineer eating donuts
5. Goat cabin crew
6. Goat management
7. Wife who only claims to swallow
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Old 25th Aug 2008, 17:46
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Maybe I am wrong, but this new ACN does not change a thing now, does it?

The only thing they ask is not to cheat the system. If you want extra fuel, do it the correct way!

Be a man and fill in the form! Who cares about those letters? If you as capt think its justified to take extra fuel, take it!

Or take the other option, an option many are considering it seems to me, and take CFP fuel and if short do not hesitate and divert! The initial ACN actually said that it would be better for the company to have some diversion rather than to have all flights taking of with too much fuel.

Myself, I still take the fuel I deem necessary for the flight, without going in to excess!

Problem by asking the fuelers to uplift some extra 100s of kgs is that you fool the system into believing the CFP fuel is correct. By doing so the statistically calculated dispatch corrections are wrong as the system will think the CFP was correct --> no correction for the future!

If you fill in the form, even for 150kgs, it allows the results to be changed statistically. Diversions would do the same I guess

So the way I see it, we have two options available. The third one (asking the fuelers) is a nono!
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Old 26th Aug 2008, 00:57
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Be a man and fill in the form! Who cares about those letters?
Have some self respect, in a real airline where pilots are a respected team members, letters of this nature (+warning letters) are unnecessary. Stop the letters, show some respect, get due respect returned. The use of letters is an arabic thing, culturally ingrained since the recitation and sadly unlikely to ever change. Do you spend a lot of time in the office 515? Do you want type letters 515?
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Old 26th Aug 2008, 01:17
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Have many letter good work from boss home. Hope get many letter here. Freinds do not wayst fuel!! Alway somewher to land if look hard in mayday. Many strong road good for A320. Passenger walk to plane, then walk away, all people happy
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Old 26th Aug 2008, 07:16
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Minefield

This place is dangerous. Everyone is afraid of thier own shadow. You even have to remember ACNs that have expired, and if you had not joined before the expiration; you still have to know them. Fuel: How about a tanker flight to night layover in BAH. You take 500 kgs extra to cover the APU burn while idly wasting away your unpaid hours, then get a letter saying do not take extra fuel. Resolution - do not take extra fuel and pick up 500 kgs at BAH after having tanked all that extra fuel to Bahrain in the first place. Anyway how much did it cost to tank 500 kgs extra to BAH anyway? It costs more to employ a Pilot to draft the letter of insult. "Be a man and fill in the form" ~ grow up!

Then you have the 'Flight Safety' office; most of them are decent guys, but they are headed by a plank of wood, the well respected Kiptin Dumb~rage; no longer a pilot but loves to insist he is called Kiptin. We are punished while he wobbles his head in glee. What a circus.
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Old 26th Aug 2008, 15:20
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Panadole 330,

It's seems to me that you are carried with personal issues with the chief pilot technical rather than the professional side, I quote you:

"I don't give a s....t about youre violation of procedure coz i want to live !"

We are all pilots here my friend, you want to tell me that my aircraft is going to fall from the sky if on a good day I decide to take flight plan fuel. So what if I fill this bloody form, when you need some extra fuel.

Be a men and act as a Captain and not as a nagging CSD.
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Old 26th Aug 2008, 16:01
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Na :if you fill up this "bloody" form as you mention.. they will investigate and then they will come to you or send you you a letter telling that extra fuel was not justified...and you have to change your fuel strategy..!
As Panadol mentioned yes it´s quite easy to tell the people don´t take extra fuel when you are seating in a office all the time....
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Old 26th Aug 2008, 17:06
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Two dogs,


no I do not spend much time in the office, nor do I like typing letters.


But in stead of whining on this forum like and old stray dog, I do what I need to do to get my flight going! And if this means filling in a fuel efficiency form, I will do it. If it means diverting because I do not have enough fuel on board I will do it as well!

And if this is the policy, learn to live with it mate! Its not your company, its not mine either! Filling in forms is indeed an arabic cultural thingv but

RING RING RING

This IS an arabic company! So is it that difficult to do what is asked of you?

Such a fuss over absolutely nothing! Boy oh boy!
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Old 26th Aug 2008, 17:57
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NA that's what makes a difference between a pro aviator and a empty vessel. Drawing horrible scenarios are usually their speciality which end up in unimaginable speculations like "what if...." or "I told you so...." etc. Too many file X are not good fellas get real. It couldn't be ever simpler if one is capable of managing, using common sense or sound airmanship without going into all the details. I personally would proceed in following order:
  1. safety
  2. commercial
  3. customer care
Doing so is my privilege and I don't need to justify anything provided I'm entrusted to be a manager of the company on board. If not then do it like me quit.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!
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Old 26th Aug 2008, 22:52
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Boy oh Boy 515, why do you think there are no trees in Doha? All cut down for letter paper....
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Old 28th Aug 2008, 03:02
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C.T

Panadol true what you say . I never saw C.T going for a flight since he took the post . He is busy proving litle small man that he can save the money .
Minimum fuel means 1 G/A and you are diverting and tell me :are you sure you will not do a G/A ?
Bring us back an previous Tech.pilot H.B let him fix all mistakes made by young inexperianced well connected current Tech P.
Let Mr M. fly some time with minimum fuel and get some PIC time.
IAD - mayday mayday we dont have fuel can we land ASAP?
DOH- pan pan fuel status
DOH returning to gate as we burn all 3% fuel for taxi ( dear pax we are returining to gate as we dont have fuel to fly to DXB due to new fuel policy
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Old 28th Aug 2008, 05:36
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Wondering if this "no extra fuel policy" is leading to an increase of non-stablised approach&landing.. (no fuel for a G.A.)..?
I think it happens already...
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Old 28th Aug 2008, 07:23
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A320 good good glider. 100 doha at cruse, glide all way, take high speed and roll to park. Pax still sleeping first class couse very quiet
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Old 28th Aug 2008, 20:34
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SNAM,

exactly! Thanks god, somebody knows what he is doing!
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Old 28th Aug 2008, 21:52
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Exclamation two dogs

The use of letters is an arabic thing
I beg to differ. On the contrary, you would find letters of such nature singing to the same song on fuel/costs savings/effeciency in almost every airline today. You have to try and appreciate these things from a "business" perspective. As Qatari515 put it and to sum it up in a word..."Discretion"

Happy landings guys.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 01:46
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minimum fuel

I knew a CP ,C.T ..... all use to take minimum fule and then they got stuck on low level and when they reach dest the WX +traffic was not as expected and guess what there alternate was alternate for 30 more airline so they couldnt get clereance to land there after that they take extra .
Minimum fule and 1 G/A and you are at alternate . G/A is a normal part of IFR so isnt it stupid to divert for that reason ? Dont we live in Qatar where a poor guy drive Land Cruiser ?
Fule is a Capt who decide and no one can give him a w/l for that and for sure not the one who has his licence expired 3 times in 1 year .
Enjoj minimum fuel untill one day you get stuck and you will learn .
Aske old alive Capt what they think about minimum fuel and you will know .
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 05:57
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Airmanship

I see nothing changes on the dusty farm. Arabic experts from far away giving advice to poor souls lost in the sandpit. Let us help SNAM, Ho and Pacificbird understand anomalies of mid-east aviation that should affect a captain's fuel uplift calculations. Forecasting, NOTAM and ATC:

1. Visibility is consistently poor. In fact the sun usually disappears into the smog haze before reaching the horizon. Add to that just a 20kt wind and it's on minimums in blowing dust.

2. The ATIS is nothing more than the last published METAR. It is not a "live" service as found in some other countries.

3. ATC varies from excellent to absolutely useless depending on airport and your luck regarding the ATC roster.

3a. Did you know that in 2007 Doha Radar only had 7 full-time rated controllers? (today?) Do you realize that in Doha only one rated controller is on duty at any one time? No relief, no support, not even for the bathroom. I have personally witnessed the SATCO completely lose control of his airspace, about 30 aircraft on frequency, total chaos, two TCAS events resulted. After that incident a vaguely worded NOTAM was issued that suggested it might be wise to carry holding fuel for Doha on Wednesday evenings, no mandatory holding fuel was NOTAMed.

3b. Enroute ATC is equally erratic. Westbound from Doha, or eastbound to Doha, it is not uncommon to be held 4000 feet lower than planned for 800 miles. Sometimes over the Arabian Sea you could be held low for over 1000 miles.

3c. Closure of alternates. On approach to DXB I was once told the airport is now closed due weather, SHJ is likewise closed, AUH and ALN have no space for you, state your intentions. AUH was the flight planned alternate, wisely we had carried DOH plus some.

Long haul flights usually land fat and have little to stress about. It is the short flights around The Gulf where there is usually not enough surplus fuel for even a single go-round and visual circuit before diversion. Add to this the endemic NOTAM, forecasting and ATC problems and you have a fuel uplift question that requires very careful consideration by the commander.

As in all other matters, Goat management has shown its immaturity. Letters and threats instead of training and encouragement. Airmanship replaced by intimidation.
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 06:43
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Definitly ATC need an upgrade here...!
When you see how the traffic has grown during the last 7...8 years here overhead Qatar, and still we have the same ..2 frequencies only..(tower&appr)for the last 10 years probably...! Unbelievable but true!
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Old 29th Aug 2008, 11:16
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I sat down at midnight last night and wrote a long story of how an office memo on min fuel loads impacted on GF operations in my day....then I deleted it!.... Having concluded it would only be management pilots and adreniline freaks that would be stupid enough to follow it through and they would soon scare the sh.t out of themselves and go back to flying a desk or find life safer in the sim.
I am glad to see the line pilots at Qatar are well up to speed on the imperfect reality in the daily real line flying world.
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