Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
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Get your 4 up!
Boredbus
As an FO you are pretty much guaranteed 8,000€ Per month on average.
Re is the money enough. As a singly you will be laughing. You can live the life of Reilly and put £1000 a month in the bank at home if you come debt free. That will give you a very nice apartment, a very nice car and when your seniority lets you see daylight again a nice lifestyle.
Re Command 2-3 bank on 3 yrs likely you will interview around 2 - 2.5 yrs and promote within 6-8 months of interview. Thats currently where we are running at.
As a singly you will likely want an apartment so you will likely spend just under the allowance. The allowance is really misnamed it is basically pay but has been called an allowance for reasons previously explained. In essence it doesn't matter what you do with it, it is yours to pay the mortgage, spend on rent or keep. You get it in full every month or even in advance every 6 months should you choose.
Again on trips home. Leave must be taken in 7 day blocks. You get you leave allocation in Dec for the whole next year. As a junior FO ( seniority wise not the rank) you will not get the popular periods i.e Xmas, easter and school holidays but you will get all your leave and will get it more easily if you bid for off peak. I,e if you say you want 3 wks in october you will almost certainly get it. If you want two weeks covering xmas and new year then you are dreaming.
It gets better very very quickly i.e in 2-3 yrs you will choosing where and when you fly when you go on leave and what days off you have. The opposite of course being true when you join.
In answer you could have 3 two week trips home, 7 single week trips home or variations on the theme. As a singly it is very very easy, us married guys are more constrained to school holidays and getting home is very difficult sometimes.
If you have the hours for command in FR unless you have some burning desire to get out here. Command is command. Take the command get 500-1000 hrs LHS then think about where to go or what to do. I love our life here but many things are not within your control. So if something goes wrong here and you leave if you once had command you have more options.
Life in FR is horrible, FR is horrible but nothing is worth more than command time in this game, trust me give me a time machine and I would have made some very different choices back when I started my civilian flying!
Im not suggesting coming as a DEC as that is a policy that is to be discouraged but have the PIC 738 in the bag may be useful when you do need it down the line with a family to support and you find yourself unemployed. It will likely happen at some point in your career and it it doesn't forewarned is forearmed.
VT
As an FO you are pretty much guaranteed 8,000€ Per month on average.
Re is the money enough. As a singly you will be laughing. You can live the life of Reilly and put £1000 a month in the bank at home if you come debt free. That will give you a very nice apartment, a very nice car and when your seniority lets you see daylight again a nice lifestyle.
Re Command 2-3 bank on 3 yrs likely you will interview around 2 - 2.5 yrs and promote within 6-8 months of interview. Thats currently where we are running at.
As a singly you will likely want an apartment so you will likely spend just under the allowance. The allowance is really misnamed it is basically pay but has been called an allowance for reasons previously explained. In essence it doesn't matter what you do with it, it is yours to pay the mortgage, spend on rent or keep. You get it in full every month or even in advance every 6 months should you choose.
Again on trips home. Leave must be taken in 7 day blocks. You get you leave allocation in Dec for the whole next year. As a junior FO ( seniority wise not the rank) you will not get the popular periods i.e Xmas, easter and school holidays but you will get all your leave and will get it more easily if you bid for off peak. I,e if you say you want 3 wks in october you will almost certainly get it. If you want two weeks covering xmas and new year then you are dreaming.
It gets better very very quickly i.e in 2-3 yrs you will choosing where and when you fly when you go on leave and what days off you have. The opposite of course being true when you join.
In answer you could have 3 two week trips home, 7 single week trips home or variations on the theme. As a singly it is very very easy, us married guys are more constrained to school holidays and getting home is very difficult sometimes.
If you have the hours for command in FR unless you have some burning desire to get out here. Command is command. Take the command get 500-1000 hrs LHS then think about where to go or what to do. I love our life here but many things are not within your control. So if something goes wrong here and you leave if you once had command you have more options.
Life in FR is horrible, FR is horrible but nothing is worth more than command time in this game, trust me give me a time machine and I would have made some very different choices back when I started my civilian flying!
Im not suggesting coming as a DEC as that is a policy that is to be discouraged but have the PIC 738 in the bag may be useful when you do need it down the line with a family to support and you find yourself unemployed. It will likely happen at some point in your career and it it doesn't forewarned is forearmed.
VT
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Quick question to any FlyDubai FOs:
On average how much of the €7000-€8000 take home salary are you able to put away and save each month? (Assume married couple, no children, with an average lifestyle, decent accommodation and a nice car with maybe four trips back to the EU per year. No loans or debts back home.)
In my current role I'm saving around €1500 per month so would need to be putting away more than that to make the numbers stack up.
On average how much of the €7000-€8000 take home salary are you able to put away and save each month? (Assume married couple, no children, with an average lifestyle, decent accommodation and a nice car with maybe four trips back to the EU per year. No loans or debts back home.)
In my current role I'm saving around €1500 per month so would need to be putting away more than that to make the numbers stack up.
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So many variables to that question, depends on what your taste in motor cars is....as well as restaurants, bars, apartments, shops, etc. You can save a hell of a lot as a single guy or even a married couple with no kids, it just depends what sort of life you want here. I would suggest if you come here trying to skimp and save your not going to enjoy Dubai and neither is your partner.
It's a question of finding a balance.
It's a question of finding a balance.
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Well I think it would be safer to assume that she wouldn't be working, so just one income stream.
With regards to choice of car, something with a V8 like a Mustang etc...
Tend to eat out 2-3 times a week and perfectly happy with the American chain restaurants. Other than that I'd be pretty much average in most respects - don't really drink or party to excess any more but have the occasional blow out.
With regards to choice of car, something with a V8 like a Mustang etc...
Tend to eat out 2-3 times a week and perfectly happy with the American chain restaurants. Other than that I'd be pretty much average in most respects - don't really drink or party to excess any more but have the occasional blow out.
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Then you'll save more than 1500 euros a month. Just don't expect to come here from day one and start smashing it away. Talk to most people (myself included) and they'll tell you the first year in Dubai can be expensive with all the set up costs, rent up front etc. But after a year then you can most certainly expect to be saving a fair amount.
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you can put half a side.
You can save min 3000E and still live eg. in Dubai Marina or JBR, have a V8, eat out 3-4-5 times a week... And you can settle down fairly quickly I will say it will take you just couple of month. Good info on rent/buy/...anything can be obtained from dubizzle.
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I think I would only slightly agree with Sascha there.
The dubizzle site is excellent for furnishing your apartment or villa. Its also good for used cars et al.
For property I wouldn't go near it with a bargepole. Suggest property finder.ae for a more balanced view.
Dubai Marina and JBR are an acquired taste and certain types of folk won't be quite so happy to live there as others. It would depend on the sort of background you are from, what you like to do and the pace of life you like to live. I know many a couple who live and love the marina I also know some who think it is their embodiment of hell who live and love DIFC and Old Town. The beauty is as a single FO is that the choice is yours.
I wouldn't go as far as to say you can put 3000¢ away easily unless you have been very fortunate and have no debt here or at home and live reasonably frugally.
This difference between myself and Sascha's point of view is likely again down to personally taste. I know Skippers and FOs here who think that 140,000AED is an expensive amount for a two bed apartment. I also know skippers here who happy to pay 200,000AED for a two bed apartment and don't think much off it.
If you are from London paying £2000 per month for a nice city centre apartment is not at all unreasonable in my eyes. If you wanted to live in a really nice apartment and earnt say £7000 spending £3000 per month wouldn't seem unreasonable if this is your main home and you are here to stay. I FOs who spend more than captains with 3 children on accommodation.
Well what is that in AED basically it is 18,000AED per month or 216,000AED per year. I also know that there are reasonably senior captains with their wives and children in apartments for 90,000AED pa.
So the lifestyle that you choose has a huge effect on your disposable income and hence of course on what you can save. It al depends on what you think is a reasonable way to live your life.
My tuppence worth if you want to come here and make some money and plan on at least 5 yrs here then don't go living in a studio in Sharjah as you will soon tire of being here and feel very differently about the place. On the other hand unless you really are a true SW3, SW7 or broke Londoner then you likely don't need to go much past 120,000AED per year to find something of a good UK standard for a singly.
Please bear in mind this is my opinion and I have a friend who is skipper from Bulgaria who thinks that anyone spending over 75,000AED per year is mad. Personally I have never seen anything anywhere apartment or villa that I would live in for less than 120,000AED if life gets does get so expensive that I have to move the family into an apartment then I wouldn't be here for long!
The dubizzle site is excellent for furnishing your apartment or villa. Its also good for used cars et al.
For property I wouldn't go near it with a bargepole. Suggest property finder.ae for a more balanced view.
Dubai Marina and JBR are an acquired taste and certain types of folk won't be quite so happy to live there as others. It would depend on the sort of background you are from, what you like to do and the pace of life you like to live. I know many a couple who live and love the marina I also know some who think it is their embodiment of hell who live and love DIFC and Old Town. The beauty is as a single FO is that the choice is yours.
I wouldn't go as far as to say you can put 3000¢ away easily unless you have been very fortunate and have no debt here or at home and live reasonably frugally.
This difference between myself and Sascha's point of view is likely again down to personally taste. I know Skippers and FOs here who think that 140,000AED is an expensive amount for a two bed apartment. I also know skippers here who happy to pay 200,000AED for a two bed apartment and don't think much off it.
If you are from London paying £2000 per month for a nice city centre apartment is not at all unreasonable in my eyes. If you wanted to live in a really nice apartment and earnt say £7000 spending £3000 per month wouldn't seem unreasonable if this is your main home and you are here to stay. I FOs who spend more than captains with 3 children on accommodation.
Well what is that in AED basically it is 18,000AED per month or 216,000AED per year. I also know that there are reasonably senior captains with their wives and children in apartments for 90,000AED pa.
So the lifestyle that you choose has a huge effect on your disposable income and hence of course on what you can save. It al depends on what you think is a reasonable way to live your life.
My tuppence worth if you want to come here and make some money and plan on at least 5 yrs here then don't go living in a studio in Sharjah as you will soon tire of being here and feel very differently about the place. On the other hand unless you really are a true SW3, SW7 or broke Londoner then you likely don't need to go much past 120,000AED per year to find something of a good UK standard for a singly.
Please bear in mind this is my opinion and I have a friend who is skipper from Bulgaria who thinks that anyone spending over 75,000AED per year is mad. Personally I have never seen anything anywhere apartment or villa that I would live in for less than 120,000AED if life gets does get so expensive that I have to move the family into an apartment then I wouldn't be here for long!
Last edited by Vortex Thing; 27th May 2014 at 12:05.
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Like what Mr. Thing says.
I've been here less than a year, so still recovering from the start up costs, but €1500 per month is about what I have budgeted for savings. That's based on the wife not working, no kids and a pretty decent 2 bedroom apartment in the Marina costing around AED 140k per year. We eat out once or twice per week and don't buy into the 5-star Dubai lifestyle.
As others have said, it all depends on the sort of lifestyle you want here. A single person, living frugally, could probably save €2-3000 per month. If you get blingy with your accommodation, car, shopping, brunches etc, and especially if you have a wife and kids to support, you could quite easily blow the lot.
I've been here less than a year, so still recovering from the start up costs, but €1500 per month is about what I have budgeted for savings. That's based on the wife not working, no kids and a pretty decent 2 bedroom apartment in the Marina costing around AED 140k per year. We eat out once or twice per week and don't buy into the 5-star Dubai lifestyle.
As others have said, it all depends on the sort of lifestyle you want here. A single person, living frugally, could probably save €2-3000 per month. If you get blingy with your accommodation, car, shopping, brunches etc, and especially if you have a wife and kids to support, you could quite easily blow the lot.
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Life Cost
So, and about a family with wife that doesn't work, two children (17 and 10 years old) that will have to study in an international school?
How much money we can save, if this is anyway possible.. or.. How much money I'll have to complete to afford the Dubai life cost?
Thks
How much money we can save, if this is anyway possible.. or.. How much money I'll have to complete to afford the Dubai life cost?
Thks
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Rodolfo
That is close to my current demographic and the vast majority of the pilots here who I know well are the same (i.e wife not working or very low paid part time) and two children under 19. A smattering of them have 3 children but the vast majority have two mostly in junior (that is under 12yrs old for UK system)
As an FO (WITH NO DEBT) you get paid enough to live a reasonable life in a nice house and break even.
It is possible to save something but very very little i.e $500 per month would be good. To save more you have to sacrifice something. So reduce your accommodation costs by living in a less desirable area, stay in more, choose not to have a maid, choose not to have pets, don't do Extra Curricula Activities for the children, no holidays, and get rid of anything that is a cost in your home country
. (i.e if you have a house it must be rented or sold at home not empty for when you need it)
As a CAPT again (WITH NO DEBT) then you are 15,000AED per month better off so basically you wait 2-3 yrs get your command and then you can do the things you sacrificed before.
Suddenly family holidays, that nicer car and a new bike for the kids is not hmmm maybe next year. It is something you can do at the time. That investment property back home can be added to/bought/traded up etc.
Basically your life is fine as an FO but do not expect to save anything if you want to have a reasonable life but you can offset that as a skipper. If you have stuff that needs paying off at home then factor that in and it is fairly likely that you will end up with 5,10 or even 15,000AED per month deficit unless you reduce something. Some/most things cannot be reduced substantially so your options are take a loan pay it all off and likely reduce your sources of irritation OR live on credit until you get upgraded. (I think one of these to be more sensible than the other) but it is all personal choice.
Suffice to say yes you can live as a family of 4 on an FOs salary but not indefinitely!
Have a good weekend
VT
That is close to my current demographic and the vast majority of the pilots here who I know well are the same (i.e wife not working or very low paid part time) and two children under 19. A smattering of them have 3 children but the vast majority have two mostly in junior (that is under 12yrs old for UK system)
As an FO (WITH NO DEBT) you get paid enough to live a reasonable life in a nice house and break even.
It is possible to save something but very very little i.e $500 per month would be good. To save more you have to sacrifice something. So reduce your accommodation costs by living in a less desirable area, stay in more, choose not to have a maid, choose not to have pets, don't do Extra Curricula Activities for the children, no holidays, and get rid of anything that is a cost in your home country
. (i.e if you have a house it must be rented or sold at home not empty for when you need it)
As a CAPT again (WITH NO DEBT) then you are 15,000AED per month better off so basically you wait 2-3 yrs get your command and then you can do the things you sacrificed before.
Suddenly family holidays, that nicer car and a new bike for the kids is not hmmm maybe next year. It is something you can do at the time. That investment property back home can be added to/bought/traded up etc.
Basically your life is fine as an FO but do not expect to save anything if you want to have a reasonable life but you can offset that as a skipper. If you have stuff that needs paying off at home then factor that in and it is fairly likely that you will end up with 5,10 or even 15,000AED per month deficit unless you reduce something. Some/most things cannot be reduced substantially so your options are take a loan pay it all off and likely reduce your sources of irritation OR live on credit until you get upgraded. (I think one of these to be more sensible than the other) but it is all personal choice.
Suffice to say yes you can live as a family of 4 on an FOs salary but not indefinitely!
Have a good weekend
VT
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Vortex Thing.
Thanks for your post.
So, that is exactly what I was imagining. Some sacrifice to achieve a better position after.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks for your post.
So, that is exactly what I was imagining. Some sacrifice to achieve a better position after.
Thanks a lot.
Last edited by Rodolfo; 29th May 2014 at 14:50. Reason: grammar error
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I agree its not the money spinner that people anticipate
I couldn't agree with Vortex Thing more.......its not the money spinner that people think.
People forget there is no pension when they say that they can save every month..........you will have to use about 400 Euros per month of your own money to compensate for the lack of company pension (and that's calculated with taking the gratuity in to account).
And there are lots of other hidden costs as well.....see my earlier thread on these costs.
If you are unemployed or a political refugee then its a good move!!
People forget there is no pension when they say that they can save every month..........you will have to use about 400 Euros per month of your own money to compensate for the lack of company pension (and that's calculated with taking the gratuity in to account).
And there are lots of other hidden costs as well.....see my earlier thread on these costs.
If you are unemployed or a political refugee then its a good move!!
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Dubai Thoughts
Long time reader first time poster.
After having been here for just over 2 years this is my two cents,
I came from a low paying turboprop job with no light in the end of the tunnel so I made the leap to the Middle East. Joining today it will take approx 3 years to command. You won't see daylight for the first 18 month as an F/O and your take home pay will be average 35000+ aed.
2 bed flat (not in marina or down town) will set you back 120-130,000 aed
2 bed house or flat (marina or downtown) 140-160,000 aed
3 bed house 180,000+ aed
Restaurants are fairly cheap but groceries are very expensive. Cars can be very cheap to own. Buy used from the dealerships that offer warranty and service (easier to get a loan from the bank and usually cheaper than dubizzle, and if it goes wrong you can drive there and shout at people).
I manage to save 1000 usd/month. Hoping to make that 3,000 when I get my fourth stripe. You can have a good life in Dubai and save a bit of cash, but things are getting a lot more expensive recently and FDB are not paying me any more than they did 2 years ago.
Friends of mine got 15% inc on basic and 20% on housing but they don't work for the government. (Locals who do had up to 100% inc in December to cover the increasing cost of Russian ladies amongst other things).
Dubai gov't orders 30-100% pay rise for staff - Banking & Finance - ArabianBusiness.com
Would I recommend anyone to come?
Yes IF you can look the other way when you see people being treated worse than dog****, don't get to stressed driving amongst Indians, if you have children don't expect to save any money as an F/O and like night flying.
After having been here for just over 2 years this is my two cents,
I came from a low paying turboprop job with no light in the end of the tunnel so I made the leap to the Middle East. Joining today it will take approx 3 years to command. You won't see daylight for the first 18 month as an F/O and your take home pay will be average 35000+ aed.
2 bed flat (not in marina or down town) will set you back 120-130,000 aed
2 bed house or flat (marina or downtown) 140-160,000 aed
3 bed house 180,000+ aed
Restaurants are fairly cheap but groceries are very expensive. Cars can be very cheap to own. Buy used from the dealerships that offer warranty and service (easier to get a loan from the bank and usually cheaper than dubizzle, and if it goes wrong you can drive there and shout at people).
I manage to save 1000 usd/month. Hoping to make that 3,000 when I get my fourth stripe. You can have a good life in Dubai and save a bit of cash, but things are getting a lot more expensive recently and FDB are not paying me any more than they did 2 years ago.
Friends of mine got 15% inc on basic and 20% on housing but they don't work for the government. (Locals who do had up to 100% inc in December to cover the increasing cost of Russian ladies amongst other things).
Dubai gov't orders 30-100% pay rise for staff - Banking & Finance - ArabianBusiness.com
Would I recommend anyone to come?
Yes IF you can look the other way when you see people being treated worse than dog****, don't get to stressed driving amongst Indians, if you have children don't expect to save any money as an F/O and like night flying.
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PBS has made the rosters much much better. To say you will be doing nothing but night flights for 18 months is an over exaggeration in my experience. 10 - 12 days off a month, with 60 to 70 block hours and some day & some night flying is achievable within your first year now - if you learn how to use PBS.
I also came from Turboprop and am less tired on an FZ roster than on my old regional roster, and even with me topping up a pension myself I save quite a lot more money too and enjoy a lifestyle that I could only dream of back home.
Moving to FZ or any airline in the Middle East isn't just a career choice it's also a lifestyle choice for you and your family. Some guys forget that, come here then realise they don't like Dubai, don't like the Middle East , don't like the lifestyle and then end up hating the job.
As for how much you will save, that is entirely person dependent, there are lots of ways on google to accurately budget the lifestyle you want/can afford here, things are getting more expensive in Dubai (just like every other major city in the world) and the pay/allowance increases that FZ are giving are not keeping up so account for that too.
I also came from Turboprop and am less tired on an FZ roster than on my old regional roster, and even with me topping up a pension myself I save quite a lot more money too and enjoy a lifestyle that I could only dream of back home.
Moving to FZ or any airline in the Middle East isn't just a career choice it's also a lifestyle choice for you and your family. Some guys forget that, come here then realise they don't like Dubai, don't like the Middle East , don't like the lifestyle and then end up hating the job.
As for how much you will save, that is entirely person dependent, there are lots of ways on google to accurately budget the lifestyle you want/can afford here, things are getting more expensive in Dubai (just like every other major city in the world) and the pay/allowance increases that FZ are giving are not keeping up so account for that too.
Last edited by FlyingTinCans; 31st May 2014 at 13:10.
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Ok,pardon my ignorance,but you guys only save 1000$ a month???
Let's say you get 35000aed/40000aed a month all in,married (wife not working) with no kid,and rent a 1bedroom apartment for 110000aed/120000aed a year,surely you can save at least 3000$ a month,can't you?
Let's say you get 35000aed/40000aed a month all in,married (wife not working) with no kid,and rent a 1bedroom apartment for 110000aed/120000aed a year,surely you can save at least 3000$ a month,can't you?
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3000$/month
This month my take home was 35600 working 50h without leave.
Rent 10000
Car 7000 (paid of in sep, So in sep I will be able to save around 12000 aed/month but that's 2 years in)
Dewa 1000
Salik + petrol + insurance 700
Phone + internet 700
Flights home around 20,000 p.a. 1500/month
Total costs 20900
35000 - 20900 approx 14000 = 3800 USD
Anyone who manages to live of less than 1000 USD for 2 and not eating cat food in DXB I salute them. I have a better lifestyle than I had back home and my hobbies cost more but hey I'm planning on staying for a while and I'd hate the place if I didn't. But on the other hand I know single guys who don't save a penny so I must say I'm better off.
I'd recommend anyone who was in the same situation as me to come, but don't expect to save 3000$ a month unless you live as a hamster in international city.
Rent 10000
Car 7000 (paid of in sep, So in sep I will be able to save around 12000 aed/month but that's 2 years in)
Dewa 1000
Salik + petrol + insurance 700
Phone + internet 700
Flights home around 20,000 p.a. 1500/month
Total costs 20900
35000 - 20900 approx 14000 = 3800 USD
Anyone who manages to live of less than 1000 USD for 2 and not eating cat food in DXB I salute them. I have a better lifestyle than I had back home and my hobbies cost more but hey I'm planning on staying for a while and I'd hate the place if I didn't. But on the other hand I know single guys who don't save a penny so I must say I'm better off.
I'd recommend anyone who was in the same situation as me to come, but don't expect to save 3000$ a month unless you live as a hamster in international city.
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For sure we like all to talk about money, but its really difficult almost impossible to save money with family as F/O in FDB.......the other main question is, what will happen at your salary if you need to stay out of work for sick leave for 4 months ? think about it.
PBS....i dont think any other company in the world would consider to have some pilots working 7 or 8 days flying the same destinations with long-day-light flights and the other pilots working 18-22 days with short and long flights almost in the night.
PBS....i dont think any other company in the world would consider to have some pilots working 7 or 8 days flying the same destinations with long-day-light flights and the other pilots working 18-22 days with short and long flights almost in the night.
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jobs
I'm a turboprop pilot with over 10,000 hrs, the problem that i find for me is the fact that i don not have any jet time and the company that i work for takes years to upgrade, i've been right seat on this dash-8 for 10 years with no upgrade in sight. how do i get pass this hurdle without any jet time. would love to move to the middle east
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WFZ
I read your post with interest. Tell me, which of these points were kept from you during the application process and subsequent interview?
You can't tell me that you were not informed that flydubai was a seniority based airline? You complain about having to fly a mixture of short and long flights..... are you seriously complaining about that?
With respect to the night flying, you have to understand that the people above you in seniority, who you seem to begrudge, have already spent 4-5 years doing the very same as what you are now. This is not preferential treatment, this is a perk, which is earned after being at FZ for a few years. You will, I'm sure, be in the very same position soon, and I expect I won't hear you complain then.
Seeing as PBS was only implemented in Nov '13, it is fair to say that we have put up with 'horrible' rostering for much longer than you have thus far. Believe me, prior to PBS things were much worse.
I read your post with interest. Tell me, which of these points were kept from you during the application process and subsequent interview?
You can't tell me that you were not informed that flydubai was a seniority based airline? You complain about having to fly a mixture of short and long flights..... are you seriously complaining about that?
With respect to the night flying, you have to understand that the people above you in seniority, who you seem to begrudge, have already spent 4-5 years doing the very same as what you are now. This is not preferential treatment, this is a perk, which is earned after being at FZ for a few years. You will, I'm sure, be in the very same position soon, and I expect I won't hear you complain then.
Seeing as PBS was only implemented in Nov '13, it is fair to say that we have put up with 'horrible' rostering for much longer than you have thus far. Believe me, prior to PBS things were much worse.
Last edited by what-to-do; 3rd Jun 2014 at 04:38.