Emirates Hold Pool
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What a drama.
Hey mensaboy, why don't you retire right now and save yourself all the trouble?
Things at EK been better, things are still the best in the market. Check around and see if there's any airline offering a package like this even after all the recent "downgrade".
The job is still very good. Poolies are not newbies in the market and some are more experienced than some of these wise asses trying to lecture about life, how to please your wife in the desert, blah, blah, blah.
The life of an EK FO is great. The bidding system is great. The payment is great.
Don't compare with your old life if that is not available. Time moves forward only.
If you are crazy to be a Captain, you must have an issue on delivering orders, so seek a shrink. Captains make a little more money to sign the papers, everithing else is standard procedures and the life of an FO is sweet.
We don't own the company, we are the workers and in this world scenery, we are the beggers. Compare to other airlines that are firing away their staff around and make your decision.
Things at EK been better, things are still the best in the market. Check around and see if there's any airline offering a package like this even after all the recent "downgrade".
The job is still very good. Poolies are not newbies in the market and some are more experienced than some of these wise asses trying to lecture about life, how to please your wife in the desert, blah, blah, blah.
The life of an EK FO is great. The bidding system is great. The payment is great.
Don't compare with your old life if that is not available. Time moves forward only.
If you are crazy to be a Captain, you must have an issue on delivering orders, so seek a shrink. Captains make a little more money to sign the papers, everithing else is standard procedures and the life of an FO is sweet.
We don't own the company, we are the workers and in this world scenery, we are the beggers. Compare to other airlines that are firing away their staff around and make your decision.
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Cosmodrift,
Reread mensaboys thread. I think you totally missed what he is saying. Unless of course you are one of the cadet pilots. You will be a foreigner in a foreign land taking orders from a local. Right or wrong you won't have much ground to stand on since you won't have the same backing.
Just a thought.
Alvord
Reread mensaboys thread. I think you totally missed what he is saying. Unless of course you are one of the cadet pilots. You will be a foreigner in a foreign land taking orders from a local. Right or wrong you won't have much ground to stand on since you won't have the same backing.
Just a thought.
Alvord
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Things at EK been better, things are still the best in the market. Check around and see if there's any airline offering a package like this even after all the recent "downgrade".
Things are far from perfect over here but he did make the comment " see if there's an airline offering a better package "
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So you are moving to Fragrant Harbour, then uh? Maybe they will have vacancies to everyone...
For those who are poolies, don't let these guys say they are sorry you passed EK selection as this would be something bad. They were very proud when they passed and they are not leaving.
This is one of the most respected selection program on earth and you know how happy you were when you passed. You got it. Congratulations. World is in a major downturn now, that's all.
This terror about local cadets becoming mean dangerous captains is ridiculous. Try to fly with a Korean or Chinese captain who speaks no english at all, accuses you of stealing their jobs and wants to fly his own mental SOP. I know what I am talking about.
What is this issue on receiving orders? Lack of respect is a safety issue and EK does not support it. So, if you are an FO, stand up, speak up, do your job and get the money. That's it. If you don't respect yourself, no one will.
For those who are poolies, don't let these guys say they are sorry you passed EK selection as this would be something bad. They were very proud when they passed and they are not leaving.
This is one of the most respected selection program on earth and you know how happy you were when you passed. You got it. Congratulations. World is in a major downturn now, that's all.
This terror about local cadets becoming mean dangerous captains is ridiculous. Try to fly with a Korean or Chinese captain who speaks no english at all, accuses you of stealing their jobs and wants to fly his own mental SOP. I know what I am talking about.
What is this issue on receiving orders? Lack of respect is a safety issue and EK does not support it. So, if you are an FO, stand up, speak up, do your job and get the money. That's it. If you don't respect yourself, no one will.
Last edited by cosmodrift; 24th Apr 2009 at 17:57.
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Cosmo,
Your posts are admirable but dont waste your time with the master moaners on this board. They have no objectivity and cannot see the trees from the forest.
As to fragrant harbour being better...every CX employee from snr mgt down must take unpaid leave in the coming months. If it was always better over there then presumably these boys could'nt cut the mustard...hence they are here.
To the poolies: The situ here WRT T&C's has suffered. To say otherwise is avoiding reality. Morale has dropped particularly with individuals who have a weak constitution and take all the re-allignment in light of current economic enviro. personally (cue LR3's adolescent rants)
The majority of the guys are relieved that they are at this carrier during this difficult period. Yes, yes I know there are tidings of truth with what has beeing posted...i.e rosters (fatigue is of particular concern here re. safety), training etc. BUT and this is a big but...there is nowhere I would rather be than here (okay maybe AF if I was French -which I am not)
So hang in there, stick with your gut feeling ....and remember there are 20 regular moaners on here (you know the type - loudest at the bar, know it all, gossipers - who take one grain of a rumour and run with it at the first chance) and 2200 other guys and gals getting on with it and making the best of life.
The good news is - when the market turns all these guys are moving on (to stay in light of their convictions would be a failure of their integrity) and then your seniority will move up a lot quicker.
Good luck to you all,
f.
Your posts are admirable but dont waste your time with the master moaners on this board. They have no objectivity and cannot see the trees from the forest.
As to fragrant harbour being better...every CX employee from snr mgt down must take unpaid leave in the coming months. If it was always better over there then presumably these boys could'nt cut the mustard...hence they are here.
To the poolies: The situ here WRT T&C's has suffered. To say otherwise is avoiding reality. Morale has dropped particularly with individuals who have a weak constitution and take all the re-allignment in light of current economic enviro. personally (cue LR3's adolescent rants)
The majority of the guys are relieved that they are at this carrier during this difficult period. Yes, yes I know there are tidings of truth with what has beeing posted...i.e rosters (fatigue is of particular concern here re. safety), training etc. BUT and this is a big but...there is nowhere I would rather be than here (okay maybe AF if I was French -which I am not)
So hang in there, stick with your gut feeling ....and remember there are 20 regular moaners on here (you know the type - loudest at the bar, know it all, gossipers - who take one grain of a rumour and run with it at the first chance) and 2200 other guys and gals getting on with it and making the best of life.
The good news is - when the market turns all these guys are moving on (to stay in light of their convictions would be a failure of their integrity) and then your seniority will move up a lot quicker.
Good luck to you all,
f.
Last edited by fliion; 24th Apr 2009 at 18:11.
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Dear FLiion, and I quote,
''Cosmo,
Your posts are admirable....''
I'm sorry but I had to stop typing to have a laugh. Other than your preface, what you state is not so far from the truth but obviously you are attempting to entice others to take the leap to EK. Nothing wrong with that in a normal world but lets consider a few things first.
7 pilots in 10 days told to depart the company and Dubai.
An erosion in T&C's in the last 7 years that is almost beyond comprehension.
Flight time limits that make no sense, ( in other words they are dangerous)
Upgrades that are not based on rules delineated in the FOM.... wait for more !!! haha
Management, that should in all honesty be referred to as........... MISMANAGEMENT
A bidding system that does not work... well in fact the company is not even using it as intended.
A rostering department that does as IT PLEASES !!!! with the full support of ED and TCAS
Accidents and near accidents occuring on a weekly basis now.
Accomodations department......... well what more needs to be said.
And a city that is disgusting by most standards.
ZERO support from management. In fact they are more detrimental to flight ops than anything else.
3 cabin crew a week who get 'stood down' during a flight because they fall ill or they have simply reached their limit. And another 20 cabin crew each week being put on FINAL NOTICE............
A complete restructuring of flight times limits and how they are calculated, in order to force pilots and crew to work insane hours. money money money.
Multiple changes to SOPS, on a monthly basis, to cover mismanagement's incompetence.
A new policy...... in addition to the flight safety debriefs, to point out deficiencies in a given pilot. Not many people know of this new ' disciplinary' policy by the way.
DEC's still coming in spite of the fact they tell us we have too many pilots at the moment, which is a complete lie.
Yeah brother........ keep spouting your BS, but you will have to deal with the consequences after your buddies arrive here and then realize you are a Capt America in sheeps clothes.
Give the new joiners a 1-2 year honeymoon and then see what happens, lol. Darn, bring on the F/O's, makes my job easier and more secure, but then again, I couldn't sleep at night if I was not forthright and honest about things.
Damn, it was only a few months back when I was encouraging people to consider EK. Amazing how things can change so fast, and I'm in the lucky few under the radar of the Nazi Brown Shirts at EK. Goodness me, I slide through life without altercation and for that I am happy. I fear things will become more and more difficult at EK in the future though.
''Cosmo,
Your posts are admirable....''
I'm sorry but I had to stop typing to have a laugh. Other than your preface, what you state is not so far from the truth but obviously you are attempting to entice others to take the leap to EK. Nothing wrong with that in a normal world but lets consider a few things first.
7 pilots in 10 days told to depart the company and Dubai.
An erosion in T&C's in the last 7 years that is almost beyond comprehension.
Flight time limits that make no sense, ( in other words they are dangerous)
Upgrades that are not based on rules delineated in the FOM.... wait for more !!! haha
Management, that should in all honesty be referred to as........... MISMANAGEMENT
A bidding system that does not work... well in fact the company is not even using it as intended.
A rostering department that does as IT PLEASES !!!! with the full support of ED and TCAS
Accidents and near accidents occuring on a weekly basis now.
Accomodations department......... well what more needs to be said.
And a city that is disgusting by most standards.
ZERO support from management. In fact they are more detrimental to flight ops than anything else.
3 cabin crew a week who get 'stood down' during a flight because they fall ill or they have simply reached their limit. And another 20 cabin crew each week being put on FINAL NOTICE............
A complete restructuring of flight times limits and how they are calculated, in order to force pilots and crew to work insane hours. money money money.
Multiple changes to SOPS, on a monthly basis, to cover mismanagement's incompetence.
A new policy...... in addition to the flight safety debriefs, to point out deficiencies in a given pilot. Not many people know of this new ' disciplinary' policy by the way.
DEC's still coming in spite of the fact they tell us we have too many pilots at the moment, which is a complete lie.
Yeah brother........ keep spouting your BS, but you will have to deal with the consequences after your buddies arrive here and then realize you are a Capt America in sheeps clothes.
Give the new joiners a 1-2 year honeymoon and then see what happens, lol. Darn, bring on the F/O's, makes my job easier and more secure, but then again, I couldn't sleep at night if I was not forthright and honest about things.
Damn, it was only a few months back when I was encouraging people to consider EK. Amazing how things can change so fast, and I'm in the lucky few under the radar of the Nazi Brown Shirts at EK. Goodness me, I slide through life without altercation and for that I am happy. I fear things will become more and more difficult at EK in the future though.
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Sorry you are disappointed with EK, Mensa and you are probably right about that, but it looks like you don't have a clue about the world you are living at. You are simply describing aviation industrie problems nowadays. I flew with the worst Captains over all continents available on this planet in 4 different companies and many times the flight was safe just because of my presence in the cockpit. These safety issues you mentioned are the most trivial occurrences on most of airlines in the world for ages. I am an eye witness.
The question remains. To rule Emirates out, what's the other option?
Don't forget that even with all this T&C downgrade EK is managing to keep you flying when most companies are firing people.
The question remains. To rule Emirates out, what's the other option?
Don't forget that even with all this T&C downgrade EK is managing to keep you flying when most companies are firing people.
Last edited by cosmodrift; 24th Apr 2009 at 20:58.
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Mensa, just to give you an example of the real world: A South American captain will face all the bad things you mentioned with no bidding system at all, 8 scattered days off over the month for U$4.000 and from that amount he'll be deducting income tax, rent or mortgage, children school fees, health insurance, electricity & water fees and more.
They have to drive themselves to work no matter what time of the day or night even against the law, for the night example.
Cabin crew are forced to fly over legal duty limits and often are taken from family reunion to fly in their days off. And they go, otherwise they are fired immediately.
Cabin crew will make net U$600 a month.
Do the maths. I'll let Asian issues to another day.
They have to drive themselves to work no matter what time of the day or night even against the law, for the night example.
Cabin crew are forced to fly over legal duty limits and often are taken from family reunion to fly in their days off. And they go, otherwise they are fired immediately.
Cabin crew will make net U$600 a month.
Do the maths. I'll let Asian issues to another day.
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First off Cosmo, I do apologize for appearing rude, and I admit that most of what you say is understandable but that is where our agreements end. In fact, I do have a ''clue about the world I am living at'' ( I think you meant IN) because I have had an illustrious career of airline failures and crappy jobs for sure.
What angers me most about EK, is that they have already surpassed the limits of tolerability for an average pilot, yet they persist in pretending to be the model of CRM and management. The truth could not be further from what they decree. I only mentioned ONE instance in the cockpit and I agree it was not very serious as compared to a lot of my experiences and the experiences of most pilots.
And yes, most experienced pilots not already at EK, should ''rule out Emirates'' but I admit there are not many other options. You mentioned that EK is managing to keep me flying while most other companies are firing people, but there is a huge difference between most other companies. EK is still profitable !!
So this begs the question, why are they taking things to such an extreme? It boils down to a few points.
1- Greed
2- Management styles
3- Stupidity........ because the short term benefits of hacking away at employee T&C's will bite them in the ass in the long run.
4- The inability of pilots to properly address issues......... partly because people like you keep telling the rest of us that we are lucky to have a job. And partly because we are a disjointed and self-serving occupation.
5-A disconnect between the operational people and the idiots in the offices
6-A lack of regard for our profession and what is involved in being a good pilot
7-A lack of understanding of our job and how important it is to an airline
I reiterate, that being truthful should not be condemned. Although EK might appear better than most airline jobs to prospective F/O's, it is not the same secure, healthy prosperous job it was, as little as 3 years ago. Things have deteriorated greatly and this trend will continue.
Flying is great and that is part of the reason I am a happy man, but I feel compelled to express my viewpoint that Dubai and EK have lost their lustre. If I was a prospective F/O, regardless of my circumstance yet knowing what I know now, I would never in a million years consider this job.
I get a little side-tracked after hearing some people expound on the virtues of EK without regard for reality. I then return home to read another illiterate email from Ed telling pilots how to do their job. The man is an idiot and he is one of our bosses! This company hires the dregs of the universe and then they put a LOCAL above them after a certain amount of time. It is shocking and this attitude will be the demise of this ****-hole. Pardon my language.
What angers me most about EK, is that they have already surpassed the limits of tolerability for an average pilot, yet they persist in pretending to be the model of CRM and management. The truth could not be further from what they decree. I only mentioned ONE instance in the cockpit and I agree it was not very serious as compared to a lot of my experiences and the experiences of most pilots.
And yes, most experienced pilots not already at EK, should ''rule out Emirates'' but I admit there are not many other options. You mentioned that EK is managing to keep me flying while most other companies are firing people, but there is a huge difference between most other companies. EK is still profitable !!
So this begs the question, why are they taking things to such an extreme? It boils down to a few points.
1- Greed
2- Management styles
3- Stupidity........ because the short term benefits of hacking away at employee T&C's will bite them in the ass in the long run.
4- The inability of pilots to properly address issues......... partly because people like you keep telling the rest of us that we are lucky to have a job. And partly because we are a disjointed and self-serving occupation.
5-A disconnect between the operational people and the idiots in the offices
6-A lack of regard for our profession and what is involved in being a good pilot
7-A lack of understanding of our job and how important it is to an airline
I reiterate, that being truthful should not be condemned. Although EK might appear better than most airline jobs to prospective F/O's, it is not the same secure, healthy prosperous job it was, as little as 3 years ago. Things have deteriorated greatly and this trend will continue.
Flying is great and that is part of the reason I am a happy man, but I feel compelled to express my viewpoint that Dubai and EK have lost their lustre. If I was a prospective F/O, regardless of my circumstance yet knowing what I know now, I would never in a million years consider this job.
I get a little side-tracked after hearing some people expound on the virtues of EK without regard for reality. I then return home to read another illiterate email from Ed telling pilots how to do their job. The man is an idiot and he is one of our bosses! This company hires the dregs of the universe and then they put a LOCAL above them after a certain amount of time. It is shocking and this attitude will be the demise of this ****-hole. Pardon my language.
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You said nothing new, Mensa.
Could not agree more and yes: You are very, very lucky you have a job.
Correct. No news here.
Prospective F/O? There are several captains in the pool. You know how is to be in your shoes and in your shoes only.
Oh, yeah. There are no idiots calling the shots at Korean Air, Singapore, China Airlines, Jet Airways, Ryan Air or in whatever company you came from. Only at EK.
4- The inability of pilots to properly address issues......... partly because people like you keep telling the rest of us that we are lucky to have a job. And partly because we are a disjointed and self-serving occupation.
I reiterate, that being truthful should not be condemned. Although EK might appear better than most airline jobs to prospective F/O's, it is not the same secure, healthy prosperous job it was, as little as 3 years ago. Things have deteriorated greatly and this trend will continue.
If I was a prospective F/O, regardless of my circumstance yet knowing what I know now, I would never in a million years consider this job.
The man is an idiot and he is one of our bosses! This company hires the dregs of the universe and then they put a LOCAL above them after a certain amount of time.
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Mensa,
The point of my post, in line with the thread i.e. poolies, is not to defend EK but rather to let the guys know who are waiting in the wings - is that EK is a good option. There are far worse places to be. So we would all like to know in light of your points - where do you suggest these career oriented pilots go in todays environment. Just a short list will suffice.
If your T&C's have been depleted over the last seven years - then why are you still here. You have had six years to move to another co. where the situ is better.
7 pilots - please expand.
f.
The point of my post, in line with the thread i.e. poolies, is not to defend EK but rather to let the guys know who are waiting in the wings - is that EK is a good option. There are far worse places to be. So we would all like to know in light of your points - where do you suggest these career oriented pilots go in todays environment. Just a short list will suffice.
If your T&C's have been depleted over the last seven years - then why are you still here. You have had six years to move to another co. where the situ is better.
7 pilots - please expand.
f.
Last edited by fliion; 25th Apr 2009 at 05:19.
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I have done a "quick" calculation on Boeing numbers only as it will be the fastest growing fleet in EK.
Currently we have 600 Captains and 630 F/Os (APPROXIMATELY)
Currently we have 77 Boeings.
My calculations are that we have 7.7 Capt and 8.0 F/Os per aircraft.
If 10 more aircraft were to be delivered this year and NO more recruitment was done, we would then have 6.8 Capt and 7.0 F/Os per aircraft.
If the same ratio (7.7 and 8.0) was to be maintained, then an additional 70 Capts and 80 F/Os would be needed this year.
So make you minds up guys what will happen.
Oz
Currently we have 600 Captains and 630 F/Os (APPROXIMATELY)
Currently we have 77 Boeings.
My calculations are that we have 7.7 Capt and 8.0 F/Os per aircraft.
If 10 more aircraft were to be delivered this year and NO more recruitment was done, we would then have 6.8 Capt and 7.0 F/Os per aircraft.
If the same ratio (7.7 and 8.0) was to be maintained, then an additional 70 Capts and 80 F/Os would be needed this year.
So make you minds up guys what will happen.
Oz
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It was a year ago today that I was in Dubai for my interview.
Still have no word yet.
I guess the ice starts to get thin from here on in....
Oh no, whats that cracking sound.......
Still have no word yet.
I guess the ice starts to get thin from here on in....
Oh no, whats that cracking sound.......
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Doomsday!Me too,I was interviewed 22nd of April,last year,of course.
According to the letter,we have to wait until August,I suppose,the very latest,when the last September courses will be assigned.
Still,it was not so clear to me,that note for the "month to month basis".
The only bad news I read,was that EK is facing quite a loss from it's cargo operations,so they canceled four out of the eight 777 cargo version.Which,presumably,means less pilots?
Anybody,anything?
According to the letter,we have to wait until August,I suppose,the very latest,when the last September courses will be assigned.
Still,it was not so clear to me,that note for the "month to month basis".
The only bad news I read,was that EK is facing quite a loss from it's cargo operations,so they canceled four out of the eight 777 cargo version.Which,presumably,means less pilots?
Anybody,anything?
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It is true, your application expires the day you interviewed. Poolies were told class dates in July, August, Sept. in the April update. I here already, July is out. Any reason for the class dates being moved back? It seems like the communication is not good and HR really doesn't know much to when class dates are scheduled for. They stopped interviewing in July of 2008, and then a few in Feb 2009.
That doesn't leave a lot of candidates left. Any thoughts.
That doesn't leave a lot of candidates left. Any thoughts.
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Hello everyone, I am also swimming in the, what seems much shallower pool still. I have not heard anything as of yet, except for the April update we all seemed to receive. Hopefully HR will send out some sort of update with info we can rely on, whether it be good or bad news. Has anyone contacted HR directly by email or phone? If so, anything you could share would be great. Hang in there guys!