New rostering rules at EK
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my last reserve month was originally scheduled 99.4 hrs, five xx days and the longest sector was seven hrs. A ripper! Ended as 92 hrs and seven xx days, though I spent one day in Dubai in the first 13.
This month the guys on reserve are being allocated the ULR flights that were taken from the bids to reduce the days off of the guys at the top. Instead of having the ULR manned, they allocated all the short flights and used reserve coverage to cater for the rest.
This month the guys on reserve are being allocated the ULR flights that were taken from the bids to reduce the days off of the guys at the top. Instead of having the ULR manned, they allocated all the short flights and used reserve coverage to cater for the rest.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,831
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I'm on reserve this month - done 2 trips making 30 hours so far.... 5 days xxr already and nothing on the horizon...
I'm not sure how crew control are working this if some of the other 'bus guys are flat out
I'm not sure how crew control are working this if some of the other 'bus guys are flat out
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Heavens
Posts: 144
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Restrictng the roster in this manner is inappropriate under the circumstances of trying to recruit and retain pilots. It does not encourage or support team participation by the pilot group and fails to establish any common goals with management...... If these words don't sound familiar then have a look at the EK Pilot Assessment Markers (PAMs) under "leadership". It equates to a score of "1" ie a FAIL.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yup - Its all about increasing productivity and lowering cost per pilot/hour.
A productivity hour costs the company about 50% of what the normal roster hour costs.
Do the math.
A) Salary + Accom + School Fees(Avg 2 kids) + ALT + ERP, Profitshare + Uniform + Medical etc.
B) Yearly hours = 820 hrs (10.5 months at 78 hrs/month) (1.5 month leave approx)
Divide A by B to get cost per hour.
Answer is: Much more than the pathetic rate paid for productivity.
So EK makes each pilot hour cheaper, requires less recruitment this year, which in turn lowers the pressure to increase salaries expecially in a recession.
Training load is reduced and more may turn to training. Training costs are reduced. Currently a training captain in productivity is cheaper than a line captain!
There are more subtle implications. Once the initial shock has been swallowed the days off can be manipulated around the following:
Days off post leave. Currently some pilots use small chunks of leave which has the effect of increasing days off in a year. This can now be counted out of the system by including them in the maximum.
Days off downroute. Already happening on a small scale. Expect more of this when the roster requires it to maximise productivity.
There are a few others...
Like everything else at EK, this is not a random bright idea from one individual. There has been a thorough cost analysis showing large savings.
No-one will leave, there will still be new joiners. (EK's PR and recruitment is still well presented and appealing to the uninformed)
Ed got the job of presenting the system. As usual it was done last thing in the week to give everyone time to absorb it before acting pre-emptively.
This is another big move, similar to the "cost neutral" scheme that lowered cost per pilot/hour a few year back. This is the first of a number of moves.
Standby for the changes to minimum qualifications for recruitment and maximum hours permitted in a year. Both are required to give weight to the new changes. When they are effected, we will be working for considerably less per hour, there will be less commuting and any idea on basings will drift into oblivion as it will never compete economically.
I would enjoy reading the full proposal that was drawn up to present to management. The numbers, options and possibilities must be impressive.
Pilots must accept that every change is to ensure only one thing. Increased productivity at their expense.
A productivity hour costs the company about 50% of what the normal roster hour costs.
Do the math.
A) Salary + Accom + School Fees(Avg 2 kids) + ALT + ERP, Profitshare + Uniform + Medical etc.
B) Yearly hours = 820 hrs (10.5 months at 78 hrs/month) (1.5 month leave approx)
Divide A by B to get cost per hour.
Answer is: Much more than the pathetic rate paid for productivity.
So EK makes each pilot hour cheaper, requires less recruitment this year, which in turn lowers the pressure to increase salaries expecially in a recession.
Training load is reduced and more may turn to training. Training costs are reduced. Currently a training captain in productivity is cheaper than a line captain!
There are more subtle implications. Once the initial shock has been swallowed the days off can be manipulated around the following:
Days off post leave. Currently some pilots use small chunks of leave which has the effect of increasing days off in a year. This can now be counted out of the system by including them in the maximum.
Days off downroute. Already happening on a small scale. Expect more of this when the roster requires it to maximise productivity.
There are a few others...
Like everything else at EK, this is not a random bright idea from one individual. There has been a thorough cost analysis showing large savings.
No-one will leave, there will still be new joiners. (EK's PR and recruitment is still well presented and appealing to the uninformed)
Ed got the job of presenting the system. As usual it was done last thing in the week to give everyone time to absorb it before acting pre-emptively.
This is another big move, similar to the "cost neutral" scheme that lowered cost per pilot/hour a few year back. This is the first of a number of moves.
Standby for the changes to minimum qualifications for recruitment and maximum hours permitted in a year. Both are required to give weight to the new changes. When they are effected, we will be working for considerably less per hour, there will be less commuting and any idea on basings will drift into oblivion as it will never compete economically.
I would enjoy reading the full proposal that was drawn up to present to management. The numbers, options and possibilities must be impressive.
Pilots must accept that every change is to ensure only one thing. Increased productivity at their expense.
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: M.E.
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have put in my March bid and look forward to finding out how things turn out. I've bid heavily for Ultra Long Haul, and normally would pick up two in this bid group.
I really can't see that happening with the the new rules. Not to mention all the other rules that are already in place. The pilot must be current in this region, that region, ULR, turnarounds, the ridiculous "variant" rules (which essentially allow the company to break their own FTL's), must have flown such and such a variant within the last blah, blah. It's impossible to second guess. It feels like a complete waste of my time bothering to bid at all.
I have a feeling the pilots who are doing "Sweet FA" on their reserve are B777 FO's. I have talked to a few who had it easy recently. We must be a bit top heavy there. I had reserve recently, 98 hours in one month and managed to fly from one side of the world to completely the opposite side in just over a week. Needless to say I wasn't sleeping well nor at the appropriate times.
The CRS bidding system has worked very well at other operators but EK must fiddle...... Whilst Rome burns.
I really can't see that happening with the the new rules. Not to mention all the other rules that are already in place. The pilot must be current in this region, that region, ULR, turnarounds, the ridiculous "variant" rules (which essentially allow the company to break their own FTL's), must have flown such and such a variant within the last blah, blah. It's impossible to second guess. It feels like a complete waste of my time bothering to bid at all.
I have a feeling the pilots who are doing "Sweet FA" on their reserve are B777 FO's. I have talked to a few who had it easy recently. We must be a bit top heavy there. I had reserve recently, 98 hours in one month and managed to fly from one side of the world to completely the opposite side in just over a week. Needless to say I wasn't sleeping well nor at the appropriate times.
The CRS bidding system has worked very well at other operators but EK must fiddle...... Whilst Rome burns.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sure you are Rev.
My point is that if everyone who threatened this on Pprune actually did leave, EK would be in trouble.
The fact is the attrition rate has slowed recently, not increased. Hence the bold new moves from management.
Supply and Demand. Pilots are essentially doing business with Arab Traders. Historically they have always been excellent at this game and will squeeze a much better bargain than anyone from the west.
My point is that if everyone who threatened this on Pprune actually did leave, EK would be in trouble.
The fact is the attrition rate has slowed recently, not increased. Hence the bold new moves from management.
Supply and Demand. Pilots are essentially doing business with Arab Traders. Historically they have always been excellent at this game and will squeeze a much better bargain than anyone from the west.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Attrition has slowed but it usually happens in pulses and I believe it will increase.
There are going to be other options available and the way EK 'manage' they are making it much easier to leave.
There are going to be other options available and the way EK 'manage' they are making it much easier to leave.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: >FL310
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Attrition of course has slowed. We are just three months away from getting our "huge" bonus (not profit share, MPBUH). This wonderful rostering has just come out so guys/gals are starting to take stock of what is available. Also, the three month notice will start kicking in after the bonus is paid. With the IAH ULH fiasco, the rostering changes, inflation and loss of buying power in DXB, general deteriotating conditions of living in Dubai-Yes this summer there will be attrition issues. And this will be felt where, primarily? B777 3-6 year captains. Their bond is down to zero, their hours are competitive and the age of the pilots relatively young compared with N.A. B777 skippers. Guys over 6 years have settled in with their families, their money is fair, and guys under three may still have a hefty bond to pony up.
Will this wake anyone up? Only when metal is parked-not one minute sooner. As long as flights arrive and depart on time (same day for EK), and metal is not bent, then our managers will see themselves as doing a masterful job with the assests they have.
Just my 2 fils
Will this wake anyone up? Only when metal is parked-not one minute sooner. As long as flights arrive and depart on time (same day for EK), and metal is not bent, then our managers will see themselves as doing a masterful job with the assests they have.
Just my 2 fils
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: the world
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southie, the Kool Aid ran out a long time ago. Just a few of LRE's buddies drinking the drips from the A/C and thinking it's bubbly.
My crystal ball is similar to TU's. I reckon a handful of senior TRE/TRIs will go to V Oz with resignations going in after the May paycheck has been banked. Some line guys will follow, probably in the 3-6 year range mentioned.
A few more will go to basing deals with FE carriers. But not enough to start a panic. However recruiting will start to dry up and with lots of Factoring the sickness rate will creep up. Around the second half of the year there will be serious crewing issues. Then we'll see what our 'managers' are made of.
Probably have to park the 310 fleet and send those guys on the 777. That will help for a few months if it is done early enough. Unless they screw the 380 guys and make them fly the 340 as MFF, the Bus will get very ugly.
Have been wrong many times before - let's see how I do this time.
My crystal ball is similar to TU's. I reckon a handful of senior TRE/TRIs will go to V Oz with resignations going in after the May paycheck has been banked. Some line guys will follow, probably in the 3-6 year range mentioned.
A few more will go to basing deals with FE carriers. But not enough to start a panic. However recruiting will start to dry up and with lots of Factoring the sickness rate will creep up. Around the second half of the year there will be serious crewing issues. Then we'll see what our 'managers' are made of.
Probably have to park the 310 fleet and send those guys on the 777. That will help for a few months if it is done early enough. Unless they screw the 380 guys and make them fly the 340 as MFF, the Bus will get very ugly.
Have been wrong many times before - let's see how I do this time.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Anywhere
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TU and 1011 are on the mark. Its normal for the rate of resignations to slow up leading into the bonus and pay rise announcement. If they were to base the pay rise on current resignation rate it would be a grave error as there will be an exodus to the places mentioned above. I also suspect the reason they stopped the 777 transfers from the Bus is they figured out exactly why almost ALL of the guys are actually doing it
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Post-Pit and Lovin' It.
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problems with attrition and recruitment are not limited to the pilot corps. They are having a lot of difficulty attracting and retaining personnel in all areas - this directly from HR. It isn't hard to see why when your grocery bill doubles in the span of a year, and you don't have company accommodation to shield you partially from inflation. It used to be you stayed until you could afford to leave. People are leaving now because they can no longer afford to stay. More than a subtle distinction, no?
Attrition slowing? On the contrary, as noted above it has to be examined in the context of both the three month notice period and the time of year. Month over month alone is not the whole picture.
But to bring it back on point, making regressive changes to rostering is hardly a wise move when trying to recruit for an expansion.
Attrition slowing? On the contrary, as noted above it has to be examined in the context of both the three month notice period and the time of year. Month over month alone is not the whole picture.
But to bring it back on point, making regressive changes to rostering is hardly a wise move when trying to recruit for an expansion.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are right about the bonus causing the crrent drop in resignations, stand by for the rush on or soon after the 28th Feb. 90 days notice means resigntion tendered 28 Feb = end of service on 31 May, and as long as you're still on the payroll on 31 May, you are eligible for the bonus.
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Australia
Posts: 543
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are right about the bonus causing the crrent drop in resignations, stand by for the rush on or soon after the 28th Feb. 90 days notice means resignation tendered 28 Feb = end of service on 31 May, and as long as you're still on the payroll on 31 May, you are eligible for the bonus.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Over Graz
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SKV8, would that mean "sickness due to fatigue?"
Interesting, they made sure to include the SK.
As a matter of fact, for a few years now all the ASRs reporting fatigue are handed over to this FR ... something group at the EK clinic. Obviously, nothing changes and the fatigue-inducing patterns are still there.
Does anyone believe that the fatigue group would advise the commercial department on this or that pattern?
I believe people should address the ASRs directly to the GCAA, if that would do any good.
Emirates is out there for a profit at all costs. The owners, would not settle for less and we are all here to be used for that purpose.
With no western-styled labor laws, very little would be achieved by the employees in terms of getting these patterns changed.
Interesting, they made sure to include the SK.
As a matter of fact, for a few years now all the ASRs reporting fatigue are handed over to this FR ... something group at the EK clinic. Obviously, nothing changes and the fatigue-inducing patterns are still there.
Does anyone believe that the fatigue group would advise the commercial department on this or that pattern?
I believe people should address the ASRs directly to the GCAA, if that would do any good.
Emirates is out there for a profit at all costs. The owners, would not settle for less and we are all here to be used for that purpose.
With no western-styled labor laws, very little would be achieved by the employees in terms of getting these patterns changed.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: usa
Age: 64
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
More time off
If we are soo tired in our bottom bid groups why not target a MINIMUM of 12 days off in a month . Thus increasing moral and recruitment . Yes I live in a fantasy land , Im also hoping when we move to the new CBC beer will flow from the water fountains .
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: the world
Posts: 233
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Profit Share date
Correction to my earlier post.
Took the trouble to look up the HR Manual (Groupworld>HR>IncentivesProfit Share...if you are bored enough)
It says:
So...if you are going to leave make sure you are here to pick up the June paycheck - 26th usually. Think MTOW said 31st May which is not correct.
Not that it will be much anyway. If the company makes $1 Billion then we get two weeks. If the profit is greater, then 25% of the surplus.
Happy flying to those who leave - I've got the handcuffs on will be here sadly.
Took the trouble to look up the HR Manual (Groupworld>HR>IncentivesProfit Share...if you are bored enough)
It says:
payments from this scheme will normally be made on the June payroll
Not that it will be much anyway. If the company makes $1 Billion then we get two weeks. If the profit is greater, then 25% of the surplus.
Happy flying to those who leave - I've got the handcuffs on will be here sadly.