New rostering rules at EK
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 121
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From: Canada
New rostering rules at EK
New restriction inserted in the bidding system limiting the amount of days off in the top bid groups.
To balance off days between top and bottom bids?
Or, to prevent commuting?
Or, so it doesn't offend high management when they see pilots with more than 3 off days in a row?
Comments? Good? Bad?
I think Bad.
To balance off days between top and bottom bids?
Or, to prevent commuting?
Or, so it doesn't offend high management when they see pilots with more than 3 off days in a row?
Comments? Good? Bad?
I think Bad.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: sandbox
It is beyond bad. And to not have the balls to tell the truth is even worse. Blaming it on GCAA safety regulations is a wimp out for Mr. Ed. He should have the guts to tell the truth: AAR ,AS and the rest of Sr. Management just can not stand the thought of top bid groups working only 12 days a month. We all know that is the reason. We have been hearing the rumors for years about "manual insertions" in the rosters to avoid too many days off in a row.
I will not be answering my phone!
Regards,
330 Man
I will not be answering my phone!
Regards,
330 Man
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Loved the positive spin he put on the letter, saying how it would be more fair to the lower bid groups.
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But wait a minute... isn't today's lower bid group next month's top bid group?
Nice try, Ed, (or the PR weenie who wrote it for you), but it didn't wash with me.
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But wait a minute... isn't today's lower bid group next month's top bid group?
Nice try, Ed, (or the PR weenie who wrote it for you), but it didn't wash with me.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
From: dubai
What really gets me is the claim that this is being done as a safety measure. What a load of crap. If they really cared about safety wrt fatigue, many of our flights and layovers would not be happening at all. And also, underlining ''Manual Insertions'' in an attempt to mislead those not knowing..... into believing that this is something the company tries to avoid. NOT !
I just don't buy any of this propaganda. Who was complaining about the disparity in days off anyhow??? Everyone has always complained that the bidding system does not work and if the company would only stop manually inserting trips and altering schedules, then it probably would work !
I suspect this is just one more method to increase our workload. I have no doubt that they ran scenarios and reran past months to see if they could scrape out some more work from us and obviously it worked.
The only thing the company sees is the string of days off in a row that we sometimes can achieve. They view this as wrong but they do not look at the preceding months of horrendous schedules and have no concept of how difficult this can be. Over time multiple time zones, and round the clock flying sucks the life out of anyone. The odd string of days off had in the past alleviated these effects, but now that is gone.
Will they stop at nothing now?
I just don't buy any of this propaganda. Who was complaining about the disparity in days off anyhow??? Everyone has always complained that the bidding system does not work and if the company would only stop manually inserting trips and altering schedules, then it probably would work !
I suspect this is just one more method to increase our workload. I have no doubt that they ran scenarios and reran past months to see if they could scrape out some more work from us and obviously it worked.
The only thing the company sees is the string of days off in a row that we sometimes can achieve. They view this as wrong but they do not look at the preceding months of horrendous schedules and have no concept of how difficult this can be. Over time multiple time zones, and round the clock flying sucks the life out of anyone. The odd string of days off had in the past alleviated these effects, but now that is gone.
Will they stop at nothing now?
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 752
Likes: 0
From: Hades.
my management team and I cannot shy away from our GCAA-mandated obligation to operational safety
Where was the interest when factoring was around?
Where was the safety when Bush and the bad weather arrived and CC were called at 2am to come to the crew center, but told not to sign on until their normal 6am start?
More crisis management I feel
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: uk
one of Ed's points from his letter.....
"The number of ULR flight segments will increase to 7 by the end of this financial year versus 1 last year"
Last year wasn't the 340 doing JFK x 2 as well as a SYD and MEL.
At this point it was very easy to manage the rosters...most of the pilots were at 900 hrs and it was fairly easy to get decent rosters so that most people were happy...albeit a bit tired.
So not really a very valid reason.
"The number of ULR flight segments will increase to 7 by the end of this financial year versus 1 last year"
Last year wasn't the 340 doing JFK x 2 as well as a SYD and MEL.
At this point it was very easy to manage the rosters...most of the pilots were at 900 hrs and it was fairly easy to get decent rosters so that most people were happy...albeit a bit tired.
So not really a very valid reason.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Dubai
OWW That hurts,
Sorry got to nip down to the 7/11 to get some more KY!
Why don't we all ring up these people (AAR,TCAS,ED,ETC) on their home numbers (from public phones) at 0200- 0500 and just say " Good morning this is your lazy pilot".
After about two weeks of this we will see if they change their attitude
Can someone please provide a list of home phone numbers?
Sorry got to nip down to the 7/11 to get some more KY!
Why don't we all ring up these people (AAR,TCAS,ED,ETC) on their home numbers (from public phones) at 0200- 0500 and just say " Good morning this is your lazy pilot".
After about two weeks of this we will see if they change their attitude
Can someone please provide a list of home phone numbers?
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 339
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From: evicted
If the Max Days Off are capped at 14 (16-2=14)
Does it mean that the Min Days Off will be capped at 11 (9+2=11)?
All 'tweaking' of the Bid Optimiser should not be done on a live roster affecting 1900 people.
I don't like the sound of "Let's give it a try for a few months, and see what happens"!!!
Does it mean that the Min Days Off will be capped at 11 (9+2=11)?
All 'tweaking' of the Bid Optimiser should not be done on a live roster affecting 1900 people.
I don't like the sound of "Let's give it a try for a few months, and see what happens"!!!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 56
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From: Dublin
So much for lifestyle and the odd string of days off. I smell trouble coming down the pipe.... unbelievable. Just when ya think it couldn't worse....
Inflation, poor schedules, increased flying, decreased take home pay..... when will it stop!!! I thought things were supposed to get better with time... not worse.
What next???????????????????????????????????????
Inflation, poor schedules, increased flying, decreased take home pay..... when will it stop!!! I thought things were supposed to get better with time... not worse.
What next???????????????????????????????????????
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: dubai
On the Subject of Safety...
Screwing with roster is cheaper than fixing the airplanes....
Before we talk about changing rosters for safety, How about getting the curtains for cabin crew on a PER trip installed..
How about proper Cockpit crew rest facilities, ie a chair for sitting in as opposed to lying in a bunk unable to sleep for 6-8 hours on a ULR.. No seats for us no rest facitlites for F?A's.
GCAA regs, me arse.
Anybody had the interview with KE or JET lately?
Before we talk about changing rosters for safety, How about getting the curtains for cabin crew on a PER trip installed..
How about proper Cockpit crew rest facilities, ie a chair for sitting in as opposed to lying in a bunk unable to sleep for 6-8 hours on a ULR.. No seats for us no rest facitlites for F?A's.
GCAA regs, me arse.
Anybody had the interview with KE or JET lately?
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
From: evicted
Before we talk about changing rosters for safety, How about getting the curtains for cabin crew on a PER trip installed..
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: i don't know
Wow, Ed. You can't possibly have written that crap, can you? But nevertheless you signed it!! Did you really evoke S.A.F.E.T.Y as a concern of yours?????
It's like Animal House's Napolean walking, but with walking sticks ..... Congratulations, you just signed good bye your final remaining tiny little bit of credibilty.
It's like Animal House's Napolean walking, but with walking sticks ..... Congratulations, you just signed good bye your final remaining tiny little bit of credibilty.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 871
Likes: 41
From: Post-Pit and Lovin' It.
Just spoke with a colleague coming for an interview at the end of the month. He has long wanted to work at EK and to see him go from elation at getting the invite, to anxiety at the rostering changes AND THE WAY IT WAS DONE!, to now deciding not to accept the position should it be offered...has been interesting, to say the least. This is the advantage of the internet...no longer can the truth about what is going on at a company be hidden easily.
He will however, be accepting the flight to Dubai and hotel room for the visit. Way to go Emirates! Not exactly an effective recruitment tool, this running roughshod over the roster! I literally don't know what goes through their heads...if they thought they would have a hard time recruiting before, just wait. The roster is peoples lives, mess with it, and it really is over. Makes my own decision easier.
NO ONE is buying the GCAA bs, it only insults people's intelligence. Play your employees for fools and you will pay the price in attrition. Two down, how many more to go?
He will however, be accepting the flight to Dubai and hotel room for the visit. Way to go Emirates! Not exactly an effective recruitment tool, this running roughshod over the roster! I literally don't know what goes through their heads...if they thought they would have a hard time recruiting before, just wait. The roster is peoples lives, mess with it, and it really is over. Makes my own decision easier.
NO ONE is buying the GCAA bs, it only insults people's intelligence. Play your employees for fools and you will pay the price in attrition. Two down, how many more to go?
Joined: Jul 1998
Posts: 59
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From: M.E.
Nothing to do with safety.
And so the terms and conditions continue their steady decline.
Just how much is enough? Do we need to make 5000 billion dollars a year before someone says "well guess what? I suppose they're doing a good job out there, how about this for a radical idea? What do you say we leave the terms and conditions just as they are? Seems like those boys & gals are doing mighty fine despite the price of oil."
Of all the things they could have "tweaked", why oh why does it have to be the bidding system. Without doubt this is the holy grail of terms and conditions.
The top two months of the rotating bid system are chance for a pilot to pick his days off, get a couple of ULR flights and still be working hard in comparison to other operators. It is analogous to an office worker who waits for his weekend. Something to look forward to, and if you've had a hard time in between well that was just a hard day at the office.
Bring your own food to work, and how about buying your own uniform? Maybe we can do away with the excessive annual leave allowance? Remember you're only "entitled" to 30 days, despite what it says in your contract. Cycle to work. Buy your own charts. Simulator on days off, after all, it's your licence, not the companies problem really.
Seen it all before. I think they call it "low cost".
Now where did I put my CV?
Just how much is enough? Do we need to make 5000 billion dollars a year before someone says "well guess what? I suppose they're doing a good job out there, how about this for a radical idea? What do you say we leave the terms and conditions just as they are? Seems like those boys & gals are doing mighty fine despite the price of oil."
Of all the things they could have "tweaked", why oh why does it have to be the bidding system. Without doubt this is the holy grail of terms and conditions.
The top two months of the rotating bid system are chance for a pilot to pick his days off, get a couple of ULR flights and still be working hard in comparison to other operators. It is analogous to an office worker who waits for his weekend. Something to look forward to, and if you've had a hard time in between well that was just a hard day at the office.
Bring your own food to work, and how about buying your own uniform? Maybe we can do away with the excessive annual leave allowance? Remember you're only "entitled" to 30 days, despite what it says in your contract. Cycle to work. Buy your own charts. Simulator on days off, after all, it's your licence, not the companies problem really.
Seen it all before. I think they call it "low cost".
Now where did I put my CV?