Gulf Air New Package
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Sorry Sal-e but I have to pick you up on what you said here...
You must have a very short memory old chap. Naf is the one who threatened the crew with lay offs in the first place. He quite clearly stated that he had a list of over 200 pilots who were un-productive and would be the first to go!! There after started the EXODUS. If 170 resignations is not a serious consequence then I don't know what is, perhaps you can tell us?
Sure he has made a couple of mistakes which had little consequence
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hi all
for your infos laker i am french and i know the salary for AF .
20000 eur even for a TRE i don t think so , 15000 0r 17000 for 90 hours may be but to be TRE 340 at least this guy works for 15 to 20 years for AF ,
and frenchs never speak after income taxes so net in his pocket should be around 9000 to 10000 depending his marital status and childrens but the good part is on top of that a pension scheme and a real health care.
just my 2 cts for comparing the packages.
cheers
for your infos laker i am french and i know the salary for AF .
20000 eur even for a TRE i don t think so , 15000 0r 17000 for 90 hours may be but to be TRE 340 at least this guy works for 15 to 20 years for AF ,
and frenchs never speak after income taxes so net in his pocket should be around 9000 to 10000 depending his marital status and childrens but the good part is on top of that a pension scheme and a real health care.
just my 2 cts for comparing the packages.
cheers
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Laker,
you wrote first that an AF Captain must be making around 20000 BHD = approx. 40000 euros !!!!
that's why I wanted to correct you! no offence.
but 20000 euros is possible for the older guys I agree. since they introduce the new payscale a normal line captain will be doing around max 15000 euros nowadays...
BD
you wrote first that an AF Captain must be making around 20000 BHD = approx. 40000 euros !!!!
that's why I wanted to correct you! no offence.
but 20000 euros is possible for the older guys I agree. since they introduce the new payscale a normal line captain will be doing around max 15000 euros nowadays...
BD
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jackbauer,
Further resignations will be stemmed after the new raise wouldn't you think? Many more resignations will be withdrawn. So what consequence are you talking about? The raise we just recieved? We will also achieve the required pilot numbers to keep our birds in the air.
The likes of you will never be satisfied with whoever is up there. I think any amount of effort by anyone to try and improve the company will be stomped on by you who think know it all.
Further resignations will be stemmed after the new raise wouldn't you think? Many more resignations will be withdrawn. So what consequence are you talking about? The raise we just recieved? We will also achieve the required pilot numbers to keep our birds in the air.
The likes of you will never be satisfied with whoever is up there. I think any amount of effort by anyone to try and improve the company will be stomped on by you who think know it all.
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Hold your horses there a moment. You said that BN had made some mistakes with no serious consequences. All I did was point out that the whole mess with pilots resigning is a direct result of one of his many mistakes. Are you not happy being told the truth? Do you really believe Gf will order new aircraft in the near future, or there are really only 60 resignations or there will be 40 upgrades a year in a shrinking airline? He told me to my face that upgrades were not in the plan for the foreseeable future. That was only 6 weeks ago, so whats changed in the interim? If you do believe all this then I can also tell you the one about the 3 bears. Thats another fairytale. Since you are less than a year in GF I will put your innocence down to lack of experience in this company. You are a classic example of the kind of person who has to move on from GF, there is no future for a low timer or low seniority pilot anymore.
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You've gone off-topic from the original issue...the so called 'consequences' of BN's doing. Lets look at the RESULTS of 'his' doing.
1. Plans to profitise GF...routes cancelled...rescheduling...slight contraction fo airline...general strengthening and consolidating.
2. Pilots resign with good reasons...mainly due money and lack of progression.
3. Pay raised twice.
4. Some pilots cancel resignation, some don't...about the right numbers left.
5. Progression OBVIOUSLY stalls as a result of all of the above (you can use commonsense on that one).
So where did I go wrong that you are so happy to crucify BN over? And what could you have done better with the above points from a business point of view?
And no, I'm no low-timer, unless you call 7800 low. And they're nearly all heavies too. I am here to stay at least for a while because the money was good and had gotten a whole lot better.
You are right about one thing. GF is not the right place for low seniority/hours guys unless you're young and have time on your side to wait a while for command (which I have). But this wasn't part of my discussion.
I wonder then, why you have stayed this long with the company? I intend on leaving when my bond period is over and things don't improve. Don't you have a home where you will complain far less? I know I do when the shiez hits the fan. You sound like you don't have too many options outside the sandpit.
1. Plans to profitise GF...routes cancelled...rescheduling...slight contraction fo airline...general strengthening and consolidating.
2. Pilots resign with good reasons...mainly due money and lack of progression.
3. Pay raised twice.
4. Some pilots cancel resignation, some don't...about the right numbers left.
5. Progression OBVIOUSLY stalls as a result of all of the above (you can use commonsense on that one).
So where did I go wrong that you are so happy to crucify BN over? And what could you have done better with the above points from a business point of view?
And no, I'm no low-timer, unless you call 7800 low. And they're nearly all heavies too. I am here to stay at least for a while because the money was good and had gotten a whole lot better.
You are right about one thing. GF is not the right place for low seniority/hours guys unless you're young and have time on your side to wait a while for command (which I have). But this wasn't part of my discussion.
I wonder then, why you have stayed this long with the company? I intend on leaving when my bond period is over and things don't improve. Don't you have a home where you will complain far less? I know I do when the shiez hits the fan. You sound like you don't have too many options outside the sandpit.
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From a business point of view naf probably did what he had to, and likely what was right.
From an employee morale point of view it's been a disaster. You don't come into a new company as a CEO/COO and before getting the pulse of the employees make broad sweeping statements about the poor health of the airline, 1/3 of the fleet is going to be retired and if you still want a job you have to sign a 3 year 23K BD bond, no wait...no bond..no wait..ok 2 years, threaten mass expat layoffs and give a token raise saying how much we appreciate you all while still paying 60% of your next door neighbor airlines. Not unless you want a large percentage of your employees to quit, in which case they did a brilliant job.
I don't have a management background and i guarantee i could have handled the employee morale situation a lot better than that. Granted the board didn't help matters either, btu as a senior manager it's your job to coordinate with the board before conflicting statements go out. With all the high priced consultants it would have likely been alot cheaper to hire a PR/HR consultant as well before making any of those statements.
As for the business end of things, only time will tell.
From an employee morale point of view it's been a disaster. You don't come into a new company as a CEO/COO and before getting the pulse of the employees make broad sweeping statements about the poor health of the airline, 1/3 of the fleet is going to be retired and if you still want a job you have to sign a 3 year 23K BD bond, no wait...no bond..no wait..ok 2 years, threaten mass expat layoffs and give a token raise saying how much we appreciate you all while still paying 60% of your next door neighbor airlines. Not unless you want a large percentage of your employees to quit, in which case they did a brilliant job.
I don't have a management background and i guarantee i could have handled the employee morale situation a lot better than that. Granted the board didn't help matters either, btu as a senior manager it's your job to coordinate with the board before conflicting statements go out. With all the high priced consultants it would have likely been alot cheaper to hire a PR/HR consultant as well before making any of those statements.
As for the business end of things, only time will tell.
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Sal_e!
Sorry to dissapoint you again mate, but as far as I know, only 4 of the 153 guys who put their resignation have withdrawn it. On the other hand, guess you'll hit the ground hard pretty soon dude. You talk about 2 payrises which so far, haven't happened but only the 200 B.D right? The other payrise is still to come and that, if they do it; again, let me tell you that seriously doubt that GF has the money or the capacity to make such an increase but perhaps, you can clarify us why then, GF will wait until november or december to make the increase????????? If you know it, please let me know since I'm very curious about this. Cheers!
Sorry to dissapoint you again mate, but as far as I know, only 4 of the 153 guys who put their resignation have withdrawn it. On the other hand, guess you'll hit the ground hard pretty soon dude. You talk about 2 payrises which so far, haven't happened but only the 200 B.D right? The other payrise is still to come and that, if they do it; again, let me tell you that seriously doubt that GF has the money or the capacity to make such an increase but perhaps, you can clarify us why then, GF will wait until november or december to make the increase????????? If you know it, please let me know since I'm very curious about this. Cheers!
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Well done Jackbauer you are right, unbelievers like you and bird dog should go anyway while there are positions available.
Hopefully the Skunkworks gang that one day in the short past ruled GF do a good job where most of the GF pilots are moving to. What the past managers did for GF? They removed the second full annual leave ticket and gave us the split leave ticket instead, three percent salary adjustment every year for us, a lot of advertisement, renewing of the first and business class on the A330 and some A340 opening unprofitable destinations (despite I loved some of them...) and not managing our collapsing fleet, maintenance, ground services, just to mention some. And even worst, they never talked about the real GF financial situation unless stating that everything was on green.
Judge now if BN and his crew are lying or not is too early, if they had announced what they announced some days ago when they started with GF, likely you would not believe on them, but they did now and many guys are relying on him, those like me (I did not resigned) and the others that are re-evaluating their decisions and staying (FORDEC, do you remember? I believe you and bird dog did the same).
Nothing has changed so much in my almost four years here like the last five months. These things are happening because board members gave to BN a go with his plans to make GF a decent airline.
Regarding to upgrades he was clear stating that if the things happen like they are predicting they could afford 30 to 40 upgrades in the next 12 months, but as you know in aviation twelve months is a quite long time.
Anyway, new fleet will come in due time and near future can be five years if you have a ten years plan and I am sure they are aware they can not work with the actual fleet but it will take time.
I believe in BN and he and GF has my commitment and as he said at the last meeting "... there are people that like GF and like Bahrain...".
The decision to not give us the new package was clear; they do not want resigning people to take advantage on their indemnity.
We have two options, believe it or not and if not... bye, bye!
Hopefully the Skunkworks gang that one day in the short past ruled GF do a good job where most of the GF pilots are moving to. What the past managers did for GF? They removed the second full annual leave ticket and gave us the split leave ticket instead, three percent salary adjustment every year for us, a lot of advertisement, renewing of the first and business class on the A330 and some A340 opening unprofitable destinations (despite I loved some of them...) and not managing our collapsing fleet, maintenance, ground services, just to mention some. And even worst, they never talked about the real GF financial situation unless stating that everything was on green.
Judge now if BN and his crew are lying or not is too early, if they had announced what they announced some days ago when they started with GF, likely you would not believe on them, but they did now and many guys are relying on him, those like me (I did not resigned) and the others that are re-evaluating their decisions and staying (FORDEC, do you remember? I believe you and bird dog did the same).
Nothing has changed so much in my almost four years here like the last five months. These things are happening because board members gave to BN a go with his plans to make GF a decent airline.
Regarding to upgrades he was clear stating that if the things happen like they are predicting they could afford 30 to 40 upgrades in the next 12 months, but as you know in aviation twelve months is a quite long time.
Anyway, new fleet will come in due time and near future can be five years if you have a ten years plan and I am sure they are aware they can not work with the actual fleet but it will take time.
I believe in BN and he and GF has my commitment and as he said at the last meeting "... there are people that like GF and like Bahrain...".
The decision to not give us the new package was clear; they do not want resigning people to take advantage on their indemnity.
We have two options, believe it or not and if not... bye, bye!
Last edited by Albergineman; 26th Aug 2007 at 19:42.
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Desert,
the fact that you've got your ear to the ground and counting indicates to me that you're wondering whether or not you've made the right move. Only time, not anyones accusations of BN, will tell.
the fact that you've got your ear to the ground and counting indicates to me that you're wondering whether or not you've made the right move. Only time, not anyones accusations of BN, will tell.
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cut the bs sal. who doesn't look out for numero uno when it's crunch time?!? you can be a BN disciple if you want. those who have decided against him and/or gf and are leaving have valid reasons. what are you, BN's new pr guy now?
i'm staying with gf a little longer and not afraid to admit that money had a lot to do with it. but that's about it. no money, no honey.
i'm staying with gf a little longer and not afraid to admit that money had a lot to do with it. but that's about it. no money, no honey.
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Seems like there are a lot of people falling for the propaganda put out by management. Fact is guys, all the best considered opinion from the aviation industry says that GF is about to run out of road. Best not to be on board when it happens. If you are staying make the most of the money cause it might have to last for a while. Sal-e is fast becoming Sad-e!! Guys like him usually have no option but to stay because of a bond or lack of experience. Yeah yeah, 7000hrs and most of it widebody, that and 1.5BD will get you a coffee in Costa.
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vfenext,
wrong wrong wrong on all counts. My next job had always been at a whim, unlike yourself who will still be sucking in desert sand long after I've gone or putting up with the crappy aviation industry that you left behind in the hovel you call home. Unlike you also, I do not need this or any job. Finances are fine where I am.
Whilst on leave, it's nice to know there's lots of job offers around my neck of the woods, most of whom would hire me tomorrow. But being the professional that I am, I will see GF through the bond period at least...unlike others who had turned around and declared foul play after signing theirs and blinking when the first opportunity whiffed by them like some perfumed skirt.
All my opinions of GF had been positive even during these tumultous times and it gets a little annoying when good attitudes gets attacked by the likes of you.
wrong wrong wrong on all counts. My next job had always been at a whim, unlike yourself who will still be sucking in desert sand long after I've gone or putting up with the crappy aviation industry that you left behind in the hovel you call home. Unlike you also, I do not need this or any job. Finances are fine where I am.
Whilst on leave, it's nice to know there's lots of job offers around my neck of the woods, most of whom would hire me tomorrow. But being the professional that I am, I will see GF through the bond period at least...unlike others who had turned around and declared foul play after signing theirs and blinking when the first opportunity whiffed by them like some perfumed skirt.
All my opinions of GF had been positive even during these tumultous times and it gets a little annoying when good attitudes gets attacked by the likes of you.
Last edited by Sal-e; 27th Aug 2007 at 07:32.
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Some people leave, others stay...for some the new package makes the decision to stay a more practical..for the rest, other factors are involved, and they will still leave...no need to criticize anybody either way..best of luck to all involved
