Emirates. Decision on F/O Position.
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neilb767 What is all this you are saying about GF being work friendly and pilots they stay by choice?
Looking at your previous posts you appear to have been trying to leave GF for ages.You even sent me a PM asking about joining SQ as a F/O which I advised against as there is no clearly defined open upgrade policy.
Looking at your previous posts you appear to have been trying to leave GF for ages.You even sent me a PM asking about joining SQ as a F/O which I advised against as there is no clearly defined open upgrade policy.
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Compared to the UK, I am much better off. I'd love to know why people can't survive on a FOs salary out here. I suspect that they are living it up a little more than they did in the own country before moving. With most things provided for I fail to see how the inflation figures can be applied as a whole to the individuals. Ok so food/petrol and beer has gone up in price but I don't see it hurting me too much.
I am definately better off than I was in UK ..period! I spend more because I live better, eat & drink out more, play more expensive golf, participate in more events. Sure, Dubai isn't cheap in these departments, but you have a choice.
One thing to remember, the salary is tax-free, overtime is tax-free. What does this mean to me? well in UK I'd be paying 51% tax on all overtime so a UK carrier would have to at least double my overtime payments for a start!
MY advice, look at the package and work it out for yourself, pay the place a visit, don't listen to all the wingers on Pprune ('cos by god there are plenty) for every winger there's one who is more than happy.
Good luck.
p.s. The overtime/too tired/don't want to do it saga. Easy solution, if you don't want to do it then go sick on grounds of fatigue/tiredness. I have and have never been called up for it. Simple!
I am definately better off than I was in UK ..period! I spend more because I live better, eat & drink out more, play more expensive golf, participate in more events. Sure, Dubai isn't cheap in these departments, but you have a choice.
One thing to remember, the salary is tax-free, overtime is tax-free. What does this mean to me? well in UK I'd be paying 51% tax on all overtime so a UK carrier would have to at least double my overtime payments for a start!
MY advice, look at the package and work it out for yourself, pay the place a visit, don't listen to all the wingers on Pprune ('cos by god there are plenty) for every winger there's one who is more than happy.
Good luck.
p.s. The overtime/too tired/don't want to do it saga. Easy solution, if you don't want to do it then go sick on grounds of fatigue/tiredness. I have and have never been called up for it. Simple!
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Originally Posted by KeepRecovering
p.s. The overtime/too tired/don't want to do it saga. Easy solution, if you don't want to do it then go sick on grounds of fatigue/tiredness. I have and have never been called up for it. Simple!
Think on, lad.
p.s. there is a further unhappy sequel to this story but out of consideration I won't expand on that here.
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Funny, wasn't raised at my interview and I was never very good at keeping my head down. Would agree though its a Captains airline.
Don't suppose you know what the quota figure is do you Lad?
Don't suppose you know what the quota figure is do you Lad?
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Things never change...
>>Would agree though its a Captains airline.<<
As it SHOULD be, without a doubt.
One wonders, when will the ah... underachievers, in the RHS ever wake up to this really simple fact of life?
First Officers, a dime a dozen.
Always have been, most likely, always will be.
Oh, I can hear it now...'we left Commands to come here, so now we should be promoted' yet all the while many do nothing but complain.
Up the ante for DEC's, and keep these guys where they truly belong...seems to be the modus operande at EK.
Not a bad plan, all things considered.
As it SHOULD be, without a doubt.
One wonders, when will the ah... underachievers, in the RHS ever wake up to this really simple fact of life?
First Officers, a dime a dozen.
Always have been, most likely, always will be.
Oh, I can hear it now...'we left Commands to come here, so now we should be promoted' yet all the while many do nothing but complain.
Up the ante for DEC's, and keep these guys where they truly belong...seems to be the modus operande at EK.
Not a bad plan, all things considered.
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Keep Recovering...
Out of interest, do you have kids, a mortgage? Eating out and playing golf are great if you are single but with a family and the cost of living in Dubai it is not that easy.
I would also suggest that most of us came here not merely to 'survive' financially but to somehow progress.
Out of interest, do you have kids, a mortgage? Eating out and playing golf are great if you are single but with a family and the cost of living in Dubai it is not that easy.
I would also suggest that most of us came here not merely to 'survive' financially but to somehow progress.
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Marooned,
All of the above and progressing fine.
((Send the wife out to work mate. 2 benefits 1) A little extra cash 2) Keeps em out of the shops) God I hope my wife never reads this!)
All of the above and progressing fine.
((Send the wife out to work mate. 2 benefits 1) A little extra cash 2) Keeps em out of the shops) God I hope my wife never reads this!)
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4HP,
I know it's more or less a free world, but could you please, please consider banning that geezer 411A for being such a wind up merchant. I know he has nothing better to do, but what he has to say has little or no purpose except to stir the pot. I don't think anyone would miss him, do you?
Yardman
I know it's more or less a free world, but could you please, please consider banning that geezer 411A for being such a wind up merchant. I know he has nothing better to do, but what he has to say has little or no purpose except to stir the pot. I don't think anyone would miss him, do you?
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Guy's, don't take the bait, 411A is just bored and is trying to get a reaction from the F/O's.
Still, I reckon he must have been a right C U Next Tuesday to fly with. He was probably known as 'Captain Thrush' (an irritating ****)
Still, I reckon he must have been a right C U Next Tuesday to fly with. He was probably known as 'Captain Thrush' (an irritating ****)
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KR,
Good on you. Wife to work wasn't an option... nice idea though.
Fact is a qualified F/O with the experience EK holds can earn +3000K in the UK after tax.
The question is why come to EK when a shot at a command is so far away and at the whim of such a bunch of charlatans?
Good on you. Wife to work wasn't an option... nice idea though.
Fact is a qualified F/O with the experience EK holds can earn +3000K in the UK after tax.
The question is why come to EK when a shot at a command is so far away and at the whim of such a bunch of charlatans?
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Marooned, you are absolutely correct. That is precicely what I was netting back in the UK.
Here however, I am netting about 3400quid (using an average exchange rate before any overtime which can net me up to another 1000 quid). If I chose to take the housing allowance I would bring in about another 1500 quid a month taking it up to about 5 grand a month (before provident fund deduction).
So making direct comparisons, here I could possibly have roughly 5 grand a month (B4 overtime) to live on as an F/O out of which mortgage and other life deductions would have to come, or 3 grand a month with exactly the same deductions in the UK.
Now, I'm no mathmetician but I recon I'm about 2k per month better off here than I was in the UK???
Before someone spouts off about Dubai being the most expensive city in the known Universe, the fact is the 'Big Mac' scale (an interantionally recognised econimoc tool) using a 'basket' of 200 products and services (including the cost of Big Mac's) puts London as being the 4th most epensive city in the world with Dubai coming in close behind as the 72nd most expensive... FACT not emotion!!!
All I know is, I was on the 'bread line' in the UK on a salary 3 times the national average and a disposable income of 2 pounds 64p at the end of the month. But in Dubai I'm not, I'm sorry to be the barer of bad news to the doom merchants, but I am better off. (If you choose to keep a house with mortgage in the UK, thats your descision - although I'd find it hard to believe you guy's don't receive rental income from that).
I have a great lifestyle here socially (although not enough days off), with golf (not as often as I'd like), sailing, dune bashing etc, and I still have change enough to take the family out a couple of times a week for a meal! Something I could only dream of doing in the UK, and yes I have been here for more than a couple of years now, so do feel at least partially knowlegable about the subject matter.
The airline though, now thats a different matter!
Nuff said.
Here however, I am netting about 3400quid (using an average exchange rate before any overtime which can net me up to another 1000 quid). If I chose to take the housing allowance I would bring in about another 1500 quid a month taking it up to about 5 grand a month (before provident fund deduction).
So making direct comparisons, here I could possibly have roughly 5 grand a month (B4 overtime) to live on as an F/O out of which mortgage and other life deductions would have to come, or 3 grand a month with exactly the same deductions in the UK.
Now, I'm no mathmetician but I recon I'm about 2k per month better off here than I was in the UK???
Before someone spouts off about Dubai being the most expensive city in the known Universe, the fact is the 'Big Mac' scale (an interantionally recognised econimoc tool) using a 'basket' of 200 products and services (including the cost of Big Mac's) puts London as being the 4th most epensive city in the world with Dubai coming in close behind as the 72nd most expensive... FACT not emotion!!!
All I know is, I was on the 'bread line' in the UK on a salary 3 times the national average and a disposable income of 2 pounds 64p at the end of the month. But in Dubai I'm not, I'm sorry to be the barer of bad news to the doom merchants, but I am better off. (If you choose to keep a house with mortgage in the UK, thats your descision - although I'd find it hard to believe you guy's don't receive rental income from that).
I have a great lifestyle here socially (although not enough days off), with golf (not as often as I'd like), sailing, dune bashing etc, and I still have change enough to take the family out a couple of times a week for a meal! Something I could only dream of doing in the UK, and yes I have been here for more than a couple of years now, so do feel at least partially knowlegable about the subject matter.
The airline though, now thats a different matter!
Nuff said.
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Oblaas aka KR...
The accomodation allowance is a 'right', not a perk. Where else can you live if you come here? Unless you are willing and have the capital to speculate the 1500 stays with EK not in your account.
So, your now willing to work 90 hrs/month with overtime for the extra grand (not guarenteed) and you can still make it around the golf course, go out and look after your family?
You don't have to be a mathematician to figure out that you either work like a dog (if indeed you have the choice) or your income will not afford the lifestyle you portray...FACT.
The accomodation allowance is a 'right', not a perk. Where else can you live if you come here? Unless you are willing and have the capital to speculate the 1500 stays with EK not in your account.
So, your now willing to work 90 hrs/month with overtime for the extra grand (not guarenteed) and you can still make it around the golf course, go out and look after your family?
You don't have to be a mathematician to figure out that you either work like a dog (if indeed you have the choice) or your income will not afford the lifestyle you portray...FACT.
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Originally Posted by KeepRecovering
Funny, wasn't raised at my interview and I was never very good at keeping my head down. Would agree though its a Captains airline.
Don't suppose you know what the quota figure is do you Lad?
Don't suppose you know what the quota figure is do you Lad?
My guess is that the quota figure is a subjective value based on how high and how often your head goes up. And you say that this wasn't discussed at your interview? What were they thinking of?
Would agree that DXB beats the UK on cost of living and income. As long as the rental trap and the American schools are avoided.
But in the interests of balanced reporting I don't think that Oblaaspop will make £1000 in overtime in many months of the year. He would need to do slightly more than 100 hours in the month to achieve that amount.
And just to be clear a joining F/O would start on £2870 a month at todays exchange rate. And the figure of £1500 accomodation allowance is slightly fat as well. And also necessitates that you will take a drop in quality of accomodation if you move out of a company villa.
As usual its not as bad as many say and its not as good as some of the others say. But I have noticed that some of the old cup half full group have recently joined the cup half empty division.
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Indeed at todays exchange rate (7dhs/pound) a new joiner will be on slightly less than 3k/month, however you will notice that I mentioned an average exchange rate (lets say 6.5dhs/pound) read it properly guys!!
Also you will have noticed that I never included overtime in the 5k figure, I merely stated that it was POSSIBLE to earn UPTO an extra 1k.
The FACT is if you CHOOSE to move out of company accom you WILL get about 9500dhs/month (around 1500 quid at an AVERAGE exchange rate) I realise that is our RIGHT which is why the company gives it to us!!!!. Out of interest, which British airline gives you an accomodation allowance to pay your UK mortgage? This figure MUST be included when you look at disposable income!
Even if you choose to stay in company accom, the equasion remains the same (if not better as the company pay's all leccy/water and gas bills etc), as you don't have any mortgage/rent to pay.
Guys, please try to understand what I'm saying, its perfectly simple (apparently not simple enough for some it would seem)
And don't shoot the messenger, I just state the facts as I see them, and made the point that I am better off here than in the UK FACT!!!!!
Also you will have noticed that I never included overtime in the 5k figure, I merely stated that it was POSSIBLE to earn UPTO an extra 1k.
The FACT is if you CHOOSE to move out of company accom you WILL get about 9500dhs/month (around 1500 quid at an AVERAGE exchange rate) I realise that is our RIGHT which is why the company gives it to us!!!!. Out of interest, which British airline gives you an accomodation allowance to pay your UK mortgage? This figure MUST be included when you look at disposable income!
Even if you choose to stay in company accom, the equasion remains the same (if not better as the company pay's all leccy/water and gas bills etc), as you don't have any mortgage/rent to pay.
Guys, please try to understand what I'm saying, its perfectly simple (apparently not simple enough for some it would seem)
And don't shoot the messenger, I just state the facts as I see them, and made the point that I am better off here than in the UK FACT!!!!!
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Show me some more Money
Just some more number crunching for you, over the past 5 years facts from Historical Currency Rates
Conversion Table: AED to GBP (Interbank rate)
13.06.2001 0.19860
18.06.2006 0.14720
Conversion Table: AED to AUD (Interbank rate)
03.04.2001 0.57030
18.06.2006 0.36930
Conversion Table: AED to EUR (Interbank rate)
12.02.2001 0.29440
18.06.2006 0.21550
Conversion Table: AED to USD (Interbank rate)
12.02.2001 0.27230
18.06.2006 0.27240
Conversion Table: AED to GBP (Interbank rate)
13.06.2001 0.19860
18.06.2006 0.14720
High: 0.19860
Low: 0.14000
Low: 0.14000
03.04.2001 0.57030
18.06.2006 0.36930
High: 0.57030
Low: 0.34110
Low: 0.34110
Conversion Table: AED to EUR (Interbank rate)
12.02.2001 0.29440
18.06.2006 0.21550
Conversion Table: AED to USD (Interbank rate)
12.02.2001 0.27230
18.06.2006 0.27240
High: 0.27450
Low: 0.27150
Low: 0.27150
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Obs,
Captains rarely take home 5K a month, I know!!! In fact you should know as you're profiled as a Captain. So an F/O can? Who?
Of course UK airlines don't have to pay an accomodation allowance for UK pilots to live in the UK... EK have to provide accomodation or the allowance for expatriot pilots to move to the Middle East in the first place... I just don't accept your argument that it is part of the 'pay' or part of your disposable income rather than it is a prerequisite of the 'Ts & Cs'.
You are misrepresenting the situation with simplistic figures from the vantage point of a Captain that virtually no F/O on the line can acheive. Simple... it is not.
Captains rarely take home 5K a month, I know!!! In fact you should know as you're profiled as a Captain. So an F/O can? Who?
Of course UK airlines don't have to pay an accomodation allowance for UK pilots to live in the UK... EK have to provide accomodation or the allowance for expatriot pilots to move to the Middle East in the first place... I just don't accept your argument that it is part of the 'pay' or part of your disposable income rather than it is a prerequisite of the 'Ts & Cs'.
You are misrepresenting the situation with simplistic figures from the vantage point of a Captain that virtually no F/O on the line can acheive. Simple... it is not.
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It only counts as disposable income if I can take it back when I go home. Otherwise it's just more cash in the sheikh's dish dash.
If I take the allowance and save some then it's disposable, if I pay off a mortgage at home while the sheikhs pay for accom then it's disposable, if I buy a house/villa and I achieve capital gain or I pay off the mortgage and recover my deposit and the allowance then it's disposable income.
Otherwise if I am given a place to stay while I stay as a guest in these parts then it makes no difference to my bottom line.
If I take the allowance and save some then it's disposable, if I pay off a mortgage at home while the sheikhs pay for accom then it's disposable, if I buy a house/villa and I achieve capital gain or I pay off the mortgage and recover my deposit and the allowance then it's disposable income.
Otherwise if I am given a place to stay while I stay as a guest in these parts then it makes no difference to my bottom line.
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Obp
Todays exchange rate is 6.85. In the last twelve months it has been closer to 7.0 than 6.5 apart from one short blip down to 6.35. Average over the last 12 months? How about 6.85.
Financial institutes predict a gentle slide towards the other side of 7.0 over the next six months.
To say that its possible to get £1000 a month in overtime compares with saying that I might win the lottery tomorrow. But yes it is possible. But I suspect that your hours for June will give you precisely null pounds (and not much time on the golf course either).
EKG has covered the point that I was going to make about the accomodation allowance.
My impression is that you are not stating facts but distorting semi facts to support your version of life at EK. Also known as spin.
Todays exchange rate is 6.85. In the last twelve months it has been closer to 7.0 than 6.5 apart from one short blip down to 6.35. Average over the last 12 months? How about 6.85.
Financial institutes predict a gentle slide towards the other side of 7.0 over the next six months.
To say that its possible to get £1000 a month in overtime compares with saying that I might win the lottery tomorrow. But yes it is possible. But I suspect that your hours for June will give you precisely null pounds (and not much time on the golf course either).
EKG has covered the point that I was going to make about the accomodation allowance.
My impression is that you are not stating facts but distorting semi facts to support your version of life at EK. Also known as spin.