No jobs for turkish F/O candidates
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No jobs for turkish F/O candidates
Looks like the pilot shortage and the Turkish CAA allowing foreign pilots produced a gold mine for Turkish companies. Some friends that are applying to Onur, Pegasus, Atlas are being told that they have plenty of F/Os from Spain, France, Britain, Germany to fly with.
Their "thanks but no thanks" attitude is just creating a weird situation where young Turkish F/O canidates with better hours than some other candidates are being shown the door.
Strange..
Their "thanks but no thanks" attitude is just creating a weird situation where young Turkish F/O canidates with better hours than some other candidates are being shown the door.
Strange..
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Welcome to the EU....soon...maybe
The company should look at the most suitable candidate first. Be he or she from the host country of the airline or not. Just look at the middle eastern airlines.
I welcome that. You can fly in my country and I in yours.
The company should look at the most suitable candidate first. Be he or she from the host country of the airline or not. Just look at the middle eastern airlines.
I welcome that. You can fly in my country and I in yours.
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Hi Folks,
I'm a turkish citizen. Well, the situation for young turkish civilian F/O's are really bad and sad. The foreign pilots can work in Tükiye without any problems and very low requirements. They are all from Germany, France, Spain and UK.
As a foreign F/O, you can apply in Türkiye, although you have
-no Type Rating (Bond)
-no flight experience
-no military service completed
-no knowledge of turkish language and
-no graduated university degree
Well, turkish citizens who want to work in Türkiye must have:
-Completed military service in Turkey
-Graduated university degree (YÖK)
-good relationship with the company and
-goooood luck!
It is not fair. But there is no alternative way. I don't know why it is so, just for the EU???
I mean, as a turkish citizen who lives in Turkey, you have also no chance to work in the EU, but on the other hand as EU member you can work in Turkey.
My question: "Is that really fair?" I say no!
There must be some changes soon. You, as a turkish company, cannot show your own turkish citizens the door and allow foreign F/O's to work for you. What the hell is wrong with Turkey??? OK, if there is really a pilot shortage, you can recruit foreign pilots. I have no problem with this way, but showing the door for turkish citizens? Com'n guys, what go through your mind?
PICUS
I'm a turkish citizen. Well, the situation for young turkish civilian F/O's are really bad and sad. The foreign pilots can work in Tükiye without any problems and very low requirements. They are all from Germany, France, Spain and UK.
As a foreign F/O, you can apply in Türkiye, although you have
-no Type Rating (Bond)
-no flight experience
-no military service completed
-no knowledge of turkish language and
-no graduated university degree
Well, turkish citizens who want to work in Türkiye must have:
-Completed military service in Turkey
-Graduated university degree (YÖK)
-good relationship with the company and
-goooood luck!
It is not fair. But there is no alternative way. I don't know why it is so, just for the EU???
I mean, as a turkish citizen who lives in Turkey, you have also no chance to work in the EU, but on the other hand as EU member you can work in Turkey.
My question: "Is that really fair?" I say no!
There must be some changes soon. You, as a turkish company, cannot show your own turkish citizens the door and allow foreign F/O's to work for you. What the hell is wrong with Turkey??? OK, if there is really a pilot shortage, you can recruit foreign pilots. I have no problem with this way, but showing the door for turkish citizens? Com'n guys, what go through your mind?
PICUS
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Selam Özcan,
senin yerinde önce yabanci olarak Türk sirketlere bas vururdum, sonra eger yakinda F/O olarak calisa bilirsen, belki bir kac zaman sonra Kaptan olmak icin zamanin gelirse, o zaman Türk vatandasligini belki daha iyi degerlendire bilirsin.
Acaba niye Türk sirketleri sadece ama gercekten sadece yabanci F/O lari isletiyorlar ve bizi, yani Türk vatandaslari almiyorlar? Avrupa ile Türkiyede bir kac Türk vatandasli pilotlar var. Bunlarin hepsi maalesef is bulamiyorlar. Hatta o Türkler tecrübessiz bile degil ve bir kac yabancilardan daha iyi ucus saatleri vardir.
Bakalim yakinda ne olacak. Belki kurallar degisir. Her tanidigim Türk pilot sunlari dedi bana: "Merak etme, yakinda sende sag koltuga oturacaksin! Innan bana, seninde zamanin bir gün kelicek!" Anlamadigim sadece:
Benim bir kac sinif arkadaslarim, hepsi Alman, gecen TR'de allindilar ve yakinda Type Ratinge baslayacaklar. O Almanlarin hic kimsesi askerligini yapmamislardir ve hic kimse de üniversite mezunu degil. Benden ama maalesef üniversite mezunu olmami istiyorlar. Ben Almanya da Abitur mezunu oldugum diye, bu TR'de lise gibi sayiliyor.
Isin kötüsü: Biz Türk vatandaslar sadece TR'de degil, bide burada, yani Avrupada da is alamiyoruz. Niye? Cünkü Türküs diye! Bunlar tabiki kendi pilotlarini isletiyorlar!
Bakalim: Insallah yakinda artik Ankara da buna karsi bir seyler yolla getirir, ve sonucda biz Türkler de yakinda Pilot olarak ise baslaya biliriz. Avrupa Türkiyedeki olan Pilot acikligi kendisi icin kullaniyor ve bizi yagmurun altinda birakiyorlar. Sanki biz Türkler ucak kullanmasini bilmiyoruz. Parayi kazanan da yabancilar oluyor.
PICUS
senin yerinde önce yabanci olarak Türk sirketlere bas vururdum, sonra eger yakinda F/O olarak calisa bilirsen, belki bir kac zaman sonra Kaptan olmak icin zamanin gelirse, o zaman Türk vatandasligini belki daha iyi degerlendire bilirsin.
Acaba niye Türk sirketleri sadece ama gercekten sadece yabanci F/O lari isletiyorlar ve bizi, yani Türk vatandaslari almiyorlar? Avrupa ile Türkiyede bir kac Türk vatandasli pilotlar var. Bunlarin hepsi maalesef is bulamiyorlar. Hatta o Türkler tecrübessiz bile degil ve bir kac yabancilardan daha iyi ucus saatleri vardir.
Bakalim yakinda ne olacak. Belki kurallar degisir. Her tanidigim Türk pilot sunlari dedi bana: "Merak etme, yakinda sende sag koltuga oturacaksin! Innan bana, seninde zamanin bir gün kelicek!" Anlamadigim sadece:
Benim bir kac sinif arkadaslarim, hepsi Alman, gecen TR'de allindilar ve yakinda Type Ratinge baslayacaklar. O Almanlarin hic kimsesi askerligini yapmamislardir ve hic kimse de üniversite mezunu degil. Benden ama maalesef üniversite mezunu olmami istiyorlar. Ben Almanya da Abitur mezunu oldugum diye, bu TR'de lise gibi sayiliyor.
Isin kötüsü: Biz Türk vatandaslar sadece TR'de degil, bide burada, yani Avrupada da is alamiyoruz. Niye? Cünkü Türküs diye! Bunlar tabiki kendi pilotlarini isletiyorlar!
Bakalim: Insallah yakinda artik Ankara da buna karsi bir seyler yolla getirir, ve sonucda biz Türkler de yakinda Pilot olarak ise baslaya biliriz. Avrupa Türkiyedeki olan Pilot acikligi kendisi icin kullaniyor ve bizi yagmurun altinda birakiyorlar. Sanki biz Türkler ucak kullanmasini bilmiyoruz. Parayi kazanan da yabancilar oluyor.
PICUS
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selam picus turkish
Dedigin gibise ozaman insallah bu seyler degisir, yoksa ayvayi yedik
tam ATPL-teoriye basladim, biraz zaman var benim icin ama insallah iyilesir bu sorunlar, bu tür oldugunu duyunca ozaman yedek egitim almayi plan lazim benim icin, kimya yoksa öbür bir türlü yedek is, zaten isvecde türk gibi is bulunmaz hep ayrimcilik dolu burasi. Asyaya is icin bakdin mi? belki oralarda insallah türkiyede ve avrupada gibi ayrimcilik yokdur
Dedigin gibise ozaman insallah bu seyler degisir, yoksa ayvayi yedik
tam ATPL-teoriye basladim, biraz zaman var benim icin ama insallah iyilesir bu sorunlar, bu tür oldugunu duyunca ozaman yedek egitim almayi plan lazim benim icin, kimya yoksa öbür bir türlü yedek is, zaten isvecde türk gibi is bulunmaz hep ayrimcilik dolu burasi. Asyaya is icin bakdin mi? belki oralarda insallah türkiyede ve avrupada gibi ayrimcilik yokdur
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Özcan, Cin'e bile gittim ve onlar en az 1500 saat istiyorlar. Olacak is degil. Hic kimseyi güvenmiyeceksin. Kendine iyi bak dostum ve bol sanslar. Bana kalirsa YÖKden denklik belgesi ala bilsen bile, sanslarimiz kötü sayilir.
PICUS
PICUS
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Behave boys...Keep it in a language everyone understand or PM eachother.
Sure sound strange the situation you explain. Ofcause that is unfair. Same requirements for all. There must be more to the story. No commercial company will spent a typerating on someone if the dont have to.
Good luck
Sure sound strange the situation you explain. Ofcause that is unfair. Same requirements for all. There must be more to the story. No commercial company will spent a typerating on someone if the dont have to.
Good luck
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Hi Guys,
Ok to be honest I do not think that those Company have any negative idea about Turkish F/O's.
The reason of this is that THY is absorbing all the senior F/O's from those charter airlines and they always run short of pilots. When they hire Foreigners they can not go to THY. Problem is resolved.
Did you get it ? Very simple..
My opinion about Education is this, Yes I think it make a big difference to have an University degree. Education is the key of every things.
I know that many guys who complain about this have an High School education degree. Many other who complain about SunEx just fail their Capt. Transition Training. Very sad.
Happy New year to all of you and good luck in your career..
Ok to be honest I do not think that those Company have any negative idea about Turkish F/O's.
The reason of this is that THY is absorbing all the senior F/O's from those charter airlines and they always run short of pilots. When they hire Foreigners they can not go to THY. Problem is resolved.
Did you get it ? Very simple..
My opinion about Education is this, Yes I think it make a big difference to have an University degree. Education is the key of every things.
I know that many guys who complain about this have an High School education degree. Many other who complain about SunEx just fail their Capt. Transition Training. Very sad.
Happy New year to all of you and good luck in your career..
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Hello CDB.A300 thanks for your input!
I definately think companies can ethically protect their experienced resources but however I think bonding should solve this, if the pilot leaves they can just suck money out of him. I don't think that it's fair at all for the turks who would like to be able to work and live in their home country. Forcing people to move and try to get a job where they will get discriminated for being turks is not the correct way just because they are afraid that THY will take all the experienced workers away from their company
i think they should bond their fellow countrymen instead of showing them the door
seeing it from the other perspective the europeans who come to turkey to collect hours will leave once they have the magic 500h or 1000h on their types and get a fast-track to command in ryanair and similiar companies!
/özcan who would like to go home
I definately think companies can ethically protect their experienced resources but however I think bonding should solve this, if the pilot leaves they can just suck money out of him. I don't think that it's fair at all for the turks who would like to be able to work and live in their home country. Forcing people to move and try to get a job where they will get discriminated for being turks is not the correct way just because they are afraid that THY will take all the experienced workers away from their company
i think they should bond their fellow countrymen instead of showing them the door
seeing it from the other perspective the europeans who come to turkey to collect hours will leave once they have the magic 500h or 1000h on their types and get a fast-track to command in ryanair and similiar companies!/özcan who would like to go home
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@CDB: No, this is absolutely not the answer of my question. I have opened my own thread, I'd written in other threads about this problem. Until this time, no one, really no one, was able to answer my question. Yes, it is very difficult to understand my question, sure.
I allready know that turkish companys don't think bad about civilian turkish pilots. I allready know that turkish companys are growing more and more with the time. And I allready know that turkish companys are also recruiting foreign pilots. Finally I allready know that turkish companys demand higher requirements for turkish applicants.
You wrote: "The reason of this is that THY is absorbing all the senior F/O's from those charter airlines and they always run short of pilots. When they hire Foreigners they can not go to THY. Problem is resolved." OK fine, let me work for AtlasJet or for SunExpress or for any other airline. If I wouldn't have a university degree, than I promise that I will not go to THY!
My question was: Why do turkish companys just hire foreign pilots and not turkish F/Os? I don't think if that you have a university degree, that this situation will change for a turkish applicant.
But thank you for your answer CDB and happy new year 2006.
PICUS
Ooooh I have forgotten something.
The foreign pilots in Turkey will leave soon Turkey and will move back to there own homeland. They are just collecting flight hours in Turkey. I don\'t mean everyone here, but the most of them. So in that case, Turkey will ever be a \"Goldmine\" for young and unexperienced foreign pilots. They are just using this great chance. That\'s it.
I allready know that turkish companys don't think bad about civilian turkish pilots. I allready know that turkish companys are growing more and more with the time. And I allready know that turkish companys are also recruiting foreign pilots. Finally I allready know that turkish companys demand higher requirements for turkish applicants.
You wrote: "The reason of this is that THY is absorbing all the senior F/O's from those charter airlines and they always run short of pilots. When they hire Foreigners they can not go to THY. Problem is resolved." OK fine, let me work for AtlasJet or for SunExpress or for any other airline. If I wouldn't have a university degree, than I promise that I will not go to THY!
My question was: Why do turkish companys just hire foreign pilots and not turkish F/Os? I don't think if that you have a university degree, that this situation will change for a turkish applicant.
But thank you for your answer CDB and happy new year 2006.
PICUS
Ooooh I have forgotten something.
The foreign pilots in Turkey will leave soon Turkey and will move back to there own homeland. They are just collecting flight hours in Turkey. I don\'t mean everyone here, but the most of them. So in that case, Turkey will ever be a \"Goldmine\" for young and unexperienced foreign pilots. They are just using this great chance. That\'s it.
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Re: No jobs for turkish F/O candidates
PICUS,
it´s fairly simple:
Everybody in Turkey is trying to get on with TK. The reason for that is obvious - a normal career, vacation, benefits, insurance (do I have to mention anything else?!) !
Most of us remember the long list of charter companies and their tremendous high rate of business failures just after the summer!
Will say that they´ve lots of work (and money) during the summer and almost no work in the winter.
Now that the domestic market is open to all companies there´s is quite some work BUT airplanes that are being used on high density domestic routes can´t do the charter work at the same time.
Like that most of the airlines grow again just before the summer season starts and shrink again in the winter (if unable to find work for their ships somewhere else).
90% of all foreign pilots (all seats) are already rated on type and work there for the season only (6-8 month).
New to the system is that pilots from JAA-land are buying their ratings and line trng. in Turkey. This of course puts a smile on every managers´face. Same sh*t is happening here in Europe.
I think that the university degree is a leftover from TK to make it easier for our air force friends. Remember that they graduate from the academy with a ´degree´ and used to get a CPL for free (this has just recently changed and they now also have to do the 14 subjects).
I personally know guys at TK without a degree...
and we all know how they got in.
The system is still stinky (look at XQ new hires from Germany without ´degree´in anything except a frozen ATPL).
There´s always a way! If they need you - they just disregard all prior requirements. As simple as that
!
Good luck!
it´s fairly simple:
Everybody in Turkey is trying to get on with TK. The reason for that is obvious - a normal career, vacation, benefits, insurance (do I have to mention anything else?!) !
Most of us remember the long list of charter companies and their tremendous high rate of business failures just after the summer!
Will say that they´ve lots of work (and money) during the summer and almost no work in the winter.
Now that the domestic market is open to all companies there´s is quite some work BUT airplanes that are being used on high density domestic routes can´t do the charter work at the same time.
Like that most of the airlines grow again just before the summer season starts and shrink again in the winter (if unable to find work for their ships somewhere else).
90% of all foreign pilots (all seats) are already rated on type and work there for the season only (6-8 month).
New to the system is that pilots from JAA-land are buying their ratings and line trng. in Turkey. This of course puts a smile on every managers´face. Same sh*t is happening here in Europe.
I think that the university degree is a leftover from TK to make it easier for our air force friends. Remember that they graduate from the academy with a ´degree´ and used to get a CPL for free (this has just recently changed and they now also have to do the 14 subjects).
I personally know guys at TK without a degree...
and we all know how they got in.The system is still stinky (look at XQ new hires from Germany without ´degree´in anything except a frozen ATPL).
There´s always a way! If they need you - they just disregard all prior requirements. As simple as that
!Good luck!
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Re: No jobs for turkish F/O candidates
PICUS,
it´s fairly simple:
Everybody in Turkey is trying to get on with TK. The reason for that is obvious - a normal career, vacation, benefits, insurance (do I have to mention anything else?!) !
Most of us remember the long list of charter companies and their tremendous high rate of business failures just after the summer!
Will say that they´ve lots of work (and money) during the summer and almost no work in the winter.
Now that the domestic market is open to all companies there´s is quite some work BUT airplanes that are being used on high density domestic routes can´t do the charter work at the same time.
Like that most of the airlines grow again just before the summer season starts and shrink again in the winter (if unable to find work for their ships elsewhere).
90% of all foreign pilots (all seats) are already rated on type and work there for the season only (6-8 month).
New to the system is that pilots from JAA-land are buying their ratings and line trng. in Turkey. This of course puts a smile on every managers´face. Same sh*t is happening here in Europe.
I think that the university degree is a leftover from TK to make it easier for our air force friends. Remember that they graduate from the academy with a ´degree´ and used to get a CPL for free (this has just recently changed and they now also have to do the 14 subjects).
I personally know guys at TK without a degree... and we all know how they got in.
The system is still stinky (look at XQ new hires from Germany without ´degree´in anything except a frozen ATPL).
There´s always a way! If they need you - they just disregard all prior requirements. As simple as that !
Good luck!
it´s fairly simple:
Everybody in Turkey is trying to get on with TK. The reason for that is obvious - a normal career, vacation, benefits, insurance (do I have to mention anything else?!) !
Most of us remember the long list of charter companies and their tremendous high rate of business failures just after the summer!
Will say that they´ve lots of work (and money) during the summer and almost no work in the winter.
Now that the domestic market is open to all companies there´s is quite some work BUT airplanes that are being used on high density domestic routes can´t do the charter work at the same time.
Like that most of the airlines grow again just before the summer season starts and shrink again in the winter (if unable to find work for their ships elsewhere).
90% of all foreign pilots (all seats) are already rated on type and work there for the season only (6-8 month).
New to the system is that pilots from JAA-land are buying their ratings and line trng. in Turkey. This of course puts a smile on every managers´face. Same sh*t is happening here in Europe.
I think that the university degree is a leftover from TK to make it easier for our air force friends. Remember that they graduate from the academy with a ´degree´ and used to get a CPL for free (this has just recently changed and they now also have to do the 14 subjects).
I personally know guys at TK without a degree...
and we all know how they got in.The system is still stinky (look at XQ new hires from Germany without ´degree´in anything except a frozen ATPL).
There´s always a way! If they need you - they just disregard all prior requirements. As simple as that
!Good luck!
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Re: No jobs for turkish F/O candidates
Originally Posted by CDB.A300
My opinion about Education is this, Yes I think it make a big difference to have an University degree. Education is the key of every things.
I know that many guys who complain about this have an High School education degree. Many other who complain about SunEx just fail their Capt. Transition Training. Very sad.
I know that many guys who complain about this have an High School education degree. Many other who complain about SunEx just fail their Capt. Transition Training. Very sad.
We are not questioning about if university degree is something good to have it or not! The answer would be clear, I presume!
Our problem is unequal treatment by the Turkish Civil Aviation Authorities. There is no country in the world (except Turkey) where the university degree is an essential requirement to fulfill in terms of upgrading to the left seat. We have this nonsense regulation thank to our friends from the Turkish Air Force. Everyone knows about it, but, the minority speaks out!
Although Turkey is a JAA-Member country, this regulation is an unique example also throughout the member countries (as previously stated above). Certainly one can say that some of other JAA countries have also their own regulations, eg., France with pilots age limitation. But it is still not as ridiculuos as the Turkish regulation since they ask this to be fulfilled by each pilot who is using their airspace.
So, from my point of view, the Turkish regulation shouldn't be limited only to captains operating Turkish registered aircrafts, Turkish Civil Aviation Authorities have to ask for an university degree from each captain using Turkish airspace. Then I call this decent! Otherwise it is not fair!
This is my personal opinion...
Cheers
Teekay
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Re: No jobs for turkish F/O candidates
As a foreign pilot I feel somewhat compelled to reply to this thread. Yes I come here with a type-rating (a very expensive one) to build up my hours. However, I did not apply to my current company. I got offerd a contract by an agency that my current company contacted to find pilots. So please don't blame me for coming here on an invitation. Like you I would do anything to work in my home country, but that just aint going to happen unless I have substantialy more hours.
Is it an excuse for the way turkish fo's are being handled???
No I dont think so......
Is it fair??
No I agree with you.....
For me it's a means to an end. As we all know the beginning of a career in aviation is extremely difficult. There are far more low-houred pilots out ther than there are jobs. We all do what we have to do to get there.
One final though:
Being an expat my compony has to provide me with:
* the standard salary
* Full time accomodation (5 star hotel in Istanbul $$$$$)
* transport
* travel to and from my home country
This makes me quite expensive in comparisson to local pilots with their own accomodation and transport. So if there are Turkish fo's out there with better hours than me why would any airline pay al those extra's for a bunch of foreigners????
All the best for 2006
TBM
Is it an excuse for the way turkish fo's are being handled???
No I dont think so......
Is it fair??
No I agree with you.....
For me it's a means to an end. As we all know the beginning of a career in aviation is extremely difficult. There are far more low-houred pilots out ther than there are jobs. We all do what we have to do to get there.
One final though:
Being an expat my compony has to provide me with:
* the standard salary
* Full time accomodation (5 star hotel in Istanbul $$$$$)
* transport
* travel to and from my home country
This makes me quite expensive in comparisson to local pilots with their own accomodation and transport. So if there are Turkish fo's out there with better hours than me why would any airline pay al those extra's for a bunch of foreigners????
All the best for 2006
TBM
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Re: No jobs for turkish F/O candidates
I am not against expats who go to XYZ country at the time of pilot shortage. Indian, Chinese and Turkish aviation has grown extremely fast in the last few years. Obviously there is a need for pilots in these countries. What I am against is people buying their jobs. PFT and PFJ (especially the latter) is a very unethical thing.
It came to my attention that some of these so called "experience building F/Os" don't even sit on the right seat. they are being called observing F/Os.
What pisses me off people savind every quid or dime to get the experience, building time by instructing or doing some other type off odd work are being sidelined by the people who can fork out 32,000 EUROs.
I know life is not fair, I know you have to roll with the punches, but when the CAA of your own country is tilting the playing field 80 degrees in favor of Spaniards, French, etc. ; it becomes an uphill battle..
Cheers..
It came to my attention that some of these so called "experience building F/Os" don't even sit on the right seat. they are being called observing F/Os.
What pisses me off people savind every quid or dime to get the experience, building time by instructing or doing some other type off odd work are being sidelined by the people who can fork out 32,000 EUROs.
I know life is not fair, I know you have to roll with the punches, but when the CAA of your own country is tilting the playing field 80 degrees in favor of Spaniards, French, etc. ; it becomes an uphill battle..
Cheers..
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Re: No jobs for turkish F/O candidates
