Emirates Meeting On 18th
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Guys:
don't show up at any not mandatory meeting
don't apply for any additional job or post
don't go to work on days off
don't participate in surveys
stay low profile and try to convince LH guys to do just so
continue to ignore TCAS + managers unless adressed
to the outside give only facts + truth about changing terms
it's all legal and only reflects the treatement endured
would be extremely easy and quick to change above behaviour wouldn't it
otherwise EY's impending roadshow will be a knock out!
don't show up at any not mandatory meeting
don't apply for any additional job or post
don't go to work on days off
don't participate in surveys
stay low profile and try to convince LH guys to do just so
continue to ignore TCAS + managers unless adressed
to the outside give only facts + truth about changing terms
it's all legal and only reflects the treatement endured
would be extremely easy and quick to change above behaviour wouldn't it
otherwise EY's impending roadshow will be a knock out!
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Quod Boy
what you know Eng is not may mother lang but at least i try to get it better by the day .lying in a dark room is not my way of doing things maybe it's yours so spare me the time
Hay don , EZGOEK330FO
I'm not on the company side or trying to defind them all I'm trying to be is fair they give us these benefit but totally agree that we are under paid not comparing world wide but just around here (gulf area) we are the least paid pilots
I don't know how could they justify not giving us the 15% pay incs(may be my eng is bettr now
) when the gov gave it to everone eles and all around the news they talking about how expnsv is dxb or shall i say U.A.E is getting .I agree with turtleneck when he says not to fly in days off coz some one is looking good by saying he has enough man power if we fly in days off and why we just get paid only for the first day ??? just to let you gays know that F/O inQA is paied 19000dhs p/m with out flying and they get paied by the hr GF F/O without flying is getting 18500dhs p/m and they get pay 12dhs by the hr from on duty to off duty air arabia F/O get paied 21000 dhs inc housing and 120dhs per hr for flying 
WE DO NEED AS EZGOEK330FO said 18% . I think we just have to do our rosters as long as it is with our body limit if we feel it's more than we take or it's effecting our life we have to draw the line by any means
i'm sure every one have his own way.
P.S from the inside of EY the will change there pay scale in oct when they get thier B777
take it easy guys and fly safe
what you know Eng is not may mother lang but at least i try to get it better by the day .lying in a dark room is not my way of doing things maybe it's yours so spare me the time
Hay don , EZGOEK330FO
I'm not on the company side or trying to defind them all I'm trying to be is fair they give us these benefit but totally agree that we are under paid not comparing world wide but just around here (gulf area) we are the least paid pilots
I don't know how could they justify not giving us the 15% pay incs(may be my eng is bettr now ) when the gov gave it to everone eles and all around the news they talking about how expnsv is dxb or shall i say U.A.E is getting .I agree with turtleneck when he says not to fly in days off coz some one is looking good by saying he has enough man power if we fly in days off and why we just get paid only for the first day ??? just to let you gays know that F/O inQA is paied 19000dhs p/m with out flying and they get paied by the hr GF F/O without flying is getting 18500dhs p/m and they get pay 12dhs by the hr from on duty to off duty air arabia F/O get paied 21000 dhs inc housing and 120dhs per hr for flying WE DO NEED AS EZGOEK330FO said 18% . I think we just have to do our rosters as long as it is with our body limit if we feel it's more than we take or it's effecting our life we have to draw the line by any means
i'm sure every one have his own way. P.S from the inside of EY the will change there pay scale in oct when they get thier B777
take it easy guys and fly safe
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After reading the last couple of posts, I realize most of us are all saying the same thing. A nice last post too speed alt*. I understand better now that you guys are also frustrated. It makes it clear to me why we all air concerns here. I think we all do want to be part of a great organization, and I think most would rather not have to choose to vote with their feet. Unfortunately, we all have different tolerance levels and the treatment by the senior management is causing people to exceed those tolerance levels, and hence resign. I hope some of those managers read these last few posts and absorb this. We would rather stay and make things better than just walk away pissed off. EK has recruited an excellent group of pilots, and part of being an excellent pilot is to voice concern when we see problems approaching, rather than waiting for the problem to reach critical mass. That is not whinging.
Hmmmm historic moment. A few posts in a row that seem to all agree on the same things!!!
Speedie, nice post. I hope for all our sakes that the meeting on the 18th is more productive than the pilot meetings of the past.
Right on the money with your last post Believe Brother.
Now that we are in the world of make believe, and advances on three weeks, 3% and a speech that we are all lucky to have a job?
Don
Speedie, nice post. I hope for all our sakes that the meeting on the 18th is more productive than the pilot meetings of the past.
Right on the money with your last post Believe Brother.
Now that we are in the world of make believe, and advances on three weeks, 3% and a speech that we are all lucky to have a job?
Don
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Our future?
The sad thing with all this is what management forget is that as a pilot group we have a vested interest in the success of the company as we are generally there for a career. Managers come and go and are often in it for what they can get out of it NOW or in a 3 year term then leave.
When it comes to long haul flying, why reinvent the wheel when there are a mass of guys with long haul experience to tap into to help setting up the operation. Maybe then it would avoid a situation where the 1st 8 ER's must be taken off line to go back to Boeing and have the crew rests retrofitted at a huge cost I am sure. This after money was probably paid to have them removed in the 1st place. What a waste of money! But don't dare carry an extra bit of gas. Doesn't take a genius to figure you need proper crew rest facilities to fly long haul. This is only 1 example of the total disregard for expertise within the company.
Reinvent the wheel - we know better than the rest of the aviation world. Keep discovering!
We cannot afford to lose good people due to bad management.
When it comes to long haul flying, why reinvent the wheel when there are a mass of guys with long haul experience to tap into to help setting up the operation. Maybe then it would avoid a situation where the 1st 8 ER's must be taken off line to go back to Boeing and have the crew rests retrofitted at a huge cost I am sure. This after money was probably paid to have them removed in the 1st place. What a waste of money! But don't dare carry an extra bit of gas. Doesn't take a genius to figure you need proper crew rest facilities to fly long haul. This is only 1 example of the total disregard for expertise within the company.
Reinvent the wheel - we know better than the rest of the aviation world. Keep discovering!
We cannot afford to lose good people due to bad management.
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Well Done !!
Now we can move ahead as a team!!
We are all in on this together my fellow colleagues. UAE Nationals and Expats.
So, to our UAE brothers. When you go to this meeting on the 18th. Do not be afraid to speak your minds and do not settle for second best!! Believe it or not, you actually speak for all of us!
They will probably try to convince you otherwise and maybe even try and bully you!! Dont take anymore of this arrogant nonsense! Why? Because now, they dont have a choice! We are in the middle of this mass expansion and whether they want to or not, they have to start coming up with all the right money and ATTITUDE!
I agree with all the posts above. Fly to rule!! Days off means exactly that!! I am tired of these thank you letters every year about our efforts. Now you can pay us instead!!
Job offers i.e TRI's/ CRM's etc.... The answer is NO THANK YOU.
No attendance to any meetings, unless it's the big bosses themselves. The last time we met with them, certain aspects were changed for the better. Any other managers or VP's, we are not interested!
Okay!! Chaff, flares...... Break Right and Check your Six.
We are all in on this together my fellow colleagues. UAE Nationals and Expats.
So, to our UAE brothers. When you go to this meeting on the 18th. Do not be afraid to speak your minds and do not settle for second best!! Believe it or not, you actually speak for all of us!
They will probably try to convince you otherwise and maybe even try and bully you!! Dont take anymore of this arrogant nonsense! Why? Because now, they dont have a choice! We are in the middle of this mass expansion and whether they want to or not, they have to start coming up with all the right money and ATTITUDE!
I agree with all the posts above. Fly to rule!! Days off means exactly that!! I am tired of these thank you letters every year about our efforts. Now you can pay us instead!!
Job offers i.e TRI's/ CRM's etc.... The answer is NO THANK YOU.
No attendance to any meetings, unless it's the big bosses themselves. The last time we met with them, certain aspects were changed for the better. Any other managers or VP's, we are not interested!
Okay!! Chaff, flares...... Break Right and Check your Six.
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A few guys posting on this forum hardly constitutes a 'combined effort.' If you have a look at the regulars here, there are really only about 10 us that make the effort to say something. Why are the other 1100+ not saying anything? Maybe they really are happy after all. 
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Gentlemen,
I admire the cohesive tones of everyones post above, but the problem that the pilot group is facing is one that words on pprune alone will not solve.
Aviation companies are run by non aviation educated management and therefore will never understand cost management at any level. Their careers are based on one simple rule the bottom line. This figure that they try to obtain is a short term economic figure that justifies there positions and onward career growth. This point can be justified by the fact that EK decide to remove crew rest areas on the B777-300ER at a cost of 2 Million dollars per aircraft, as these areas were included in the general specs of the aircraft and not an option. Having looked at the numbers for the aircraft, the crew rest areas will have to be refitted if the company would like to make the aircraft a profitable one.
As mentioned in above posts, their career path will, relatively speaking, have them at any company for a short period of time as compared to the pilots, whom strive to build a career at a major airline.
The only people that you can look towards to protect your interests are FLT OPS management and we all know that once that line has been crossed they become self serving. TCAS and those that proceeded him have come/came because it suited their personal plan. Their loyalities, or lack of, have clearly been viewed by the lack of improvements to working conditions, terms & conditions and overall appreciation by the company.
Emirates was at a cross roads 2 1/2 years ago when they placed the immense order of aircrafts. they had the choice of being a world class carrier or following the path that could lead them to ruin. Unfortunately, we are now seeing the fruits of the managements choices. If the present bleeding in staff resignations continues, coupled with the lack of new arrivals in FLT OPS aircrafts will be parked very soon. Flights have been cancelled recently due to insufficient crews.
The problem at the company are vast and no matter how the accounts and managers try to conceal the damage by cutting costs, the effects will be felt.
We do not have a voice within the company, we serve a purpose and the value of are expertise is taken for granted. There are a couple of solutions that can resolve the current problems we have as a pilot group and they are as follows:
1. Vote with you feet and do not look back. there are amounst us people who cry a river but are waiting for everyone else to leave in order for things to improve. Once again, self serving individuals who do not have anyones interest at heart except there own.
2. As a united group have the courage to write to the Chairman and explain the path the company is taking due to the people running his airline. the would include TC and the rest below him. If anyone here believes that upper management is not aware of the current crisis, you would be wrong! they choose to ignore the issues as we are a expendable commodity in their eyes.
Unfortunately, option one is the most viable as we are the only professionals in the world who would stab a friend to get ahead. that is MHO, as i have witnessed it in every avaition position in my career. We are ruthless with each other and airline management take advantage of that fact.
I could continue to write but my point would become diluted.
The national pilots have their aspirations and we as expats have ours. there will never be a day when those interests will meet as one. I say to those of you who voice your opinions on pprune, to concentrate your efforts on being more constructive with your anger. Form a piots association, NOT A UNION, which would allow you to voice the concerns of the pilot group to upper management. Not TC, but the Chairman himself or Mr. Flanagan. they are the only two people who can objectively deal with your concerns as their interests are with the development of the airline.
I believe it is possible and may solve some of your problems far quicker than the normal channels. Use the resources at hand and see that your future is secured. I am no longer in the environment as i felt it best to vacate while i still had fond memories of the place.
I have many thoughts but cannot subject you to them, however i wish you all the best for the future, no matter where that might be.
AC100
I admire the cohesive tones of everyones post above, but the problem that the pilot group is facing is one that words on pprune alone will not solve.
Aviation companies are run by non aviation educated management and therefore will never understand cost management at any level. Their careers are based on one simple rule the bottom line. This figure that they try to obtain is a short term economic figure that justifies there positions and onward career growth. This point can be justified by the fact that EK decide to remove crew rest areas on the B777-300ER at a cost of 2 Million dollars per aircraft, as these areas were included in the general specs of the aircraft and not an option. Having looked at the numbers for the aircraft, the crew rest areas will have to be refitted if the company would like to make the aircraft a profitable one.
As mentioned in above posts, their career path will, relatively speaking, have them at any company for a short period of time as compared to the pilots, whom strive to build a career at a major airline.
The only people that you can look towards to protect your interests are FLT OPS management and we all know that once that line has been crossed they become self serving. TCAS and those that proceeded him have come/came because it suited their personal plan. Their loyalities, or lack of, have clearly been viewed by the lack of improvements to working conditions, terms & conditions and overall appreciation by the company.
Emirates was at a cross roads 2 1/2 years ago when they placed the immense order of aircrafts. they had the choice of being a world class carrier or following the path that could lead them to ruin. Unfortunately, we are now seeing the fruits of the managements choices. If the present bleeding in staff resignations continues, coupled with the lack of new arrivals in FLT OPS aircrafts will be parked very soon. Flights have been cancelled recently due to insufficient crews.
The problem at the company are vast and no matter how the accounts and managers try to conceal the damage by cutting costs, the effects will be felt.
We do not have a voice within the company, we serve a purpose and the value of are expertise is taken for granted. There are a couple of solutions that can resolve the current problems we have as a pilot group and they are as follows:
1. Vote with you feet and do not look back. there are amounst us people who cry a river but are waiting for everyone else to leave in order for things to improve. Once again, self serving individuals who do not have anyones interest at heart except there own.
2. As a united group have the courage to write to the Chairman and explain the path the company is taking due to the people running his airline. the would include TC and the rest below him. If anyone here believes that upper management is not aware of the current crisis, you would be wrong! they choose to ignore the issues as we are a expendable commodity in their eyes.
Unfortunately, option one is the most viable as we are the only professionals in the world who would stab a friend to get ahead. that is MHO, as i have witnessed it in every avaition position in my career. We are ruthless with each other and airline management take advantage of that fact.
I could continue to write but my point would become diluted.
The national pilots have their aspirations and we as expats have ours. there will never be a day when those interests will meet as one. I say to those of you who voice your opinions on pprune, to concentrate your efforts on being more constructive with your anger. Form a piots association, NOT A UNION, which would allow you to voice the concerns of the pilot group to upper management. Not TC, but the Chairman himself or Mr. Flanagan. they are the only two people who can objectively deal with your concerns as their interests are with the development of the airline.
I believe it is possible and may solve some of your problems far quicker than the normal channels. Use the resources at hand and see that your future is secured. I am no longer in the environment as i felt it best to vacate while i still had fond memories of the place.
I have many thoughts but cannot subject you to them, however i wish you all the best for the future, no matter where that might be.
AC100
Last edited by ac100; 15th Apr 2005 at 19:47.
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TO ALL YOU GUYS IN EMIRATES!!!
JUST A WORD OF ADVICE..... TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AN EXPANDING COMPANY DONT LET THEM CONTROL YOU . YOU CONTROL THEM...... ITS LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE GETTING WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE. COME ON YOU ALL CAN DO BETTER...
JUST A WORD OF ADVICE..... TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AN EXPANDING COMPANY DONT LET THEM CONTROL YOU . YOU CONTROL THEM...... ITS LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE GETTING WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THEY FEEL LIKE. COME ON YOU ALL CAN DO BETTER...
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Nice post DOn and BB all of you gays are agreeing on the same thing with diffrent ideas to solve it ,Someone mintion on an early post DIVID AND RULE method that TCAS and the great mind coast cutting ENG 
are using now and they working hard enough on it so it works for thier best . One big problem they convince higher mang with is that they get pilots at any time and thier pool is full of APPLICATIONS ofcourse they only short by few pilots (just under 100!!) and the new bidding system with the fatiuge thing belt in it will cover this shortage apart of having to find pilots with low standerd have them to do the 8 week course and finsh on time so on the line you get roborts to fly the A/c with no clue whatsoever about using their commonsence if they have any 
.As you gays mintiond above these gays come and go and to make the best out of thier 3 years or whatever they have to find someone to balme and call them THE ASKING FOR MORE PEPOLE or THE NEVER HAPPY CHAPS !! IT'S ALWAYS US THE PILOTS .But what do we KNOW about saving any mony for the company ! they now better THE LATEST BEING SEZ IS 4 CREW NOW so someone will always be called from his day off to do it that's saving money and looking good for the big boss we got to fly the hole night coz someone between 4 wall go to work at 7 have a good coffee call his miss on and then say this is oneway of cost cutting why let the crew stay over night where they can go do turn around when they are 4 and anyway pilots are not working hard enough they get 8 days off then MR Company man go home play with his kids where the not working hard pilots are still at FL370 Iwould like it if we can get our voice to the Chirman as ac100 says but how could we
THE FACT is these mang are forgetting that PILOTS are the back bone of an airline you can have as many mang or shall i say space cadiet that make things work! in the end non of them will fly the A/c so they can plan as much as they want they are still not going to have it working with out us .it's called airline so someone have to be up there if they dont like it they can call it manegline and then we will see how good can the do (use donkeys to take pax from A to B)
They are ignoring SAFETY taking the standerd down the drain and hiding in the SCARREY dirc they are killing the airline in the name of coas cutting We got to find away to stop this just do your rosters no extras by flying in days off we are not helping the company but we are helping the mang to make the fake fig look true.
hope you all had a good week end
are using now and they working hard enough on it so it works for thier best . One big problem they convince higher mang with is that they get pilots at any time and thier pool is full of APPLICATIONS ofcourse they only short by few pilots (just under 100!!) and the new bidding system with the fatiuge thing belt in it will cover this shortage apart of having to find pilots with low standerd have them to do the 8 week course and finsh on time so on the line you get roborts to fly the A/c with no clue whatsoever about using their commonsence if they have any .As you gays mintiond above these gays come and go and to make the best out of thier 3 years or whatever they have to find someone to balme and call them THE ASKING FOR MORE PEPOLE or THE NEVER HAPPY CHAPS !! IT'S ALWAYS US THE PILOTS .But what do we KNOW about saving any mony for the company ! they now better THE LATEST BEING SEZ IS 4 CREW NOW so someone will always be called from his day off to do it that's saving money and looking good for the big boss we got to fly the hole night coz someone between 4 wall go to work at 7 have a good coffee call his miss on and then say this is oneway of cost cutting why let the crew stay over night where they can go do turn around when they are 4 and anyway pilots are not working hard enough they get 8 days off then MR Company man go home play with his kids where the not working hard pilots are still at FL370 Iwould like it if we can get our voice to the Chirman as ac100 says but how could weTHE FACT is these mang are forgetting that PILOTS are the back bone of an airline you can have as many mang or shall i say space cadiet that make things work! in the end non of them will fly the A/c so they can plan as much as they want they are still not going to have it working with out us .it's called airline so someone have to be up there if they dont like it they can call it manegline and then we will see how good can the do (use donkeys to take pax from A to B)
They are ignoring SAFETY taking the standerd down the drain and hiding in the SCARREY dirc they are killing the airline in the name of coas cutting We got to find away to stop this just do your rosters no extras by flying in days off we are not helping the company but we are helping the mang to make the fake fig look true.
hope you all had a good week end
Last edited by SPEED ALT*; 16th Apr 2005 at 06:35.
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Iwould like it if we can get our voice to the Chirman as ac100 says but how could we
Alternatively go to the meeting on the 27th at the Jumeirah Beach Hotel and if you have nothing to lose, then when the forum opens up for questions to His Highness and Mr. Flanagan, tell them exactly what you think. But for your own sake, be nice to them! After the last meeting, Adel got his pants in a twist cos the pilots were disrespectful.
Anyway, go to the meeting anyway, the food is free and you won't have to worry about the cost of feeding yourself that day I guess, so that is a bonus in itself!
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No email for me.. Maybe I don't moan enough in CBC to be considered as a real pilot. 
Maybe in my pigeonhole.. or just Persona Non Grata..
Could anyone ask for a doggybag for me??
Maybe in my pigeonhole.. or just Persona Non Grata..
Could anyone ask for a doggybag for me??
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Shake,
You quote 45 pilots resigning,info from HR,over what time period though?
Is that in the last few weeks or couple of years?
Can you elaborate,if its 45 recently,that is surely a cause for concern,that cannot be wrtten off as " a few,waiting to collect profit share?"
12 pilots is 1%,and if new joiners are not showing up,then thats a serious manpower situation???Is it not??
Cheers,QB
You quote 45 pilots resigning,info from HR,over what time period though?
Is that in the last few weeks or couple of years?
Can you elaborate,if its 45 recently,that is surely a cause for concern,that cannot be wrtten off as " a few,waiting to collect profit share?"
12 pilots is 1%,and if new joiners are not showing up,then thats a serious manpower situation???Is it not??
Cheers,QB
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Well lets use the EPC as a recruitment centre,
many pilots here have contacts in the outside world that can help source jobs and put them on a list withs terms and conditions. The trouble with getting a new job is normally finding it , most pilots only know what its like in there home country , there is probably some hidden gems out-there if people want to share information....
Instead of bitching lets help each other ....
many pilots here have contacts in the outside world that can help source jobs and put them on a list withs terms and conditions. The trouble with getting a new job is normally finding it , most pilots only know what its like in there home country , there is probably some hidden gems out-there if people want to share information....
Instead of bitching lets help each other ....
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Great Posts!
Dear Speedie, Don, Ezgoek330fo, and Ac100,
Great Posts guys! To say any more regarding situational assessment of the company's position would be a repetitive exercise. I just sincerely hope that our management will read and digest such constructive and objective input. There is just one thing I would like to add.....
To all guys reading this,
The option of going to see management personally is, believe it or not, a very effective tool. Call AS's secretary and make an appointment. Go see him and present a well constructed and objective case/opinion. That simple and professional act will not get you in trouble, and you can walk away knowing that at least you did your bit to raise awareness (or confirm already known information) at AS's level. ........And yes, I did.
Did that single visit change anything? Probably not. Would 50, 100, 200, or 300+ visits change things: I think so. The fact that he would have great difficulty creating enough time to personally see all the pilots requesting meetings would send a very clear message in itself, would it not?
Just food for thought.......
Happy (insert occasion here) to all!!!
CTOAN
Great Posts guys! To say any more regarding situational assessment of the company's position would be a repetitive exercise. I just sincerely hope that our management will read and digest such constructive and objective input. There is just one thing I would like to add.....
To all guys reading this,
The option of going to see management personally is, believe it or not, a very effective tool. Call AS's secretary and make an appointment. Go see him and present a well constructed and objective case/opinion. That simple and professional act will not get you in trouble, and you can walk away knowing that at least you did your bit to raise awareness (or confirm already known information) at AS's level. ........And yes, I did.
Did that single visit change anything? Probably not. Would 50, 100, 200, or 300+ visits change things: I think so. The fact that he would have great difficulty creating enough time to personally see all the pilots requesting meetings would send a very clear message in itself, would it not?
Just food for thought.......
Happy (insert occasion here) to all!!!
CTOAN
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CTOAN, agree totally. I still am optimistic about TCAS. I believe his biggest handbrake is AAR, but I think that fool will get his dues one way or another. Look what happened to the previous two holders of his position
Speedy, good luck tomorrow. I'm not sure just where that meeting will go, but remember, if you are in a position to voice concern, stay calm and logical. That way, the managers can't walk away mumbling about whinging pilots.
Speedy, good luck tomorrow. I'm not sure just where that meeting will go, but remember, if you are in a position to voice concern, stay calm and logical. That way, the managers can't walk away mumbling about whinging pilots.