Dubai ATC
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Dubai ATC
Am I alone when I say there are one or two ATCOs (Aussie/English?) in DXB who seem to suffer from constant PMS?
The ones who seem to spend 30-40% of the talk time flogging pilots for the smallest R/T mistakes.
The ones who threaten to vector you to hell and back if you miss two radio calls.
The ones who seem to be in a desperate need of some permanent R and R.
Apologies to the rest of you ATCOs in DXB. Apart from the need to read a 30 sec blablabla every time we check in for arrival/departure to DXB, you are a professional lot second to none.
The other two...
The ones who seem to spend 30-40% of the talk time flogging pilots for the smallest R/T mistakes.
The ones who threaten to vector you to hell and back if you miss two radio calls.
The ones who seem to be in a desperate need of some permanent R and R.
Apologies to the rest of you ATCOs in DXB. Apart from the need to read a 30 sec blablabla every time we check in for arrival/departure to DXB, you are a professional lot second to none.
The other two...
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Am I alone when I say there are one or two pilots who fly into DXB who seem to suffer from flying while in a vegetative state?
The ones who seem to spend 30-40% of the talk time getting flogged for constant R/T mistakes.
The ones who get vectored to hell and back because they need two radio calls for every instruction.
The ones who seem to be in a desperate need of some permanent R and R.
Apologies to the rest of you pilots in DXB. Apart from the need to readback a 30 sec blablabla every time you check in for arrival/departure to DXB, you are a professional lot second to none.
The other two...
The ones who seem to spend 30-40% of the talk time getting flogged for constant R/T mistakes.
The ones who get vectored to hell and back because they need two radio calls for every instruction.
The ones who seem to be in a desperate need of some permanent R and R.
Apologies to the rest of you pilots in DXB. Apart from the need to readback a 30 sec blablabla every time you check in for arrival/departure to DXB, you are a professional lot second to none.
The other two...
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Ouch!!
That hurts!!!
We are not, all that bad are we.....?
I missed a few calls! but the importance of ATC & Pilots is to communicate and NOT to censurade!
Cheers to all
I am just a pilot!
We are not, all that bad are we.....?
I missed a few calls! but the importance of ATC & Pilots is to communicate and NOT to censurade!
Cheers to all
I am just a pilot!
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Clever response from Ferris, you have to admit, eh? My 2 fils worth: have usually found ATC in this area helpful - own speeds; direct clearances; fast climbs - able, and often enjoyably witty - witness our callsign, 'Midjet', promptly morphed into 'Midget'! (corporate jet)
doodle bug!
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ferris, I have absolutely no problems with UAE or Abu Dhabi. This is limited to DXB, and further down to one or two individuals. No need to feel offended unless the shoe fits, and you do some part time work in Dubai.
We all do mistakes, we can all have a bad day, but these guys behave in a way I've never experienced before, and they do it consistently.
We all do mistakes, we can all have a bad day, but these guys behave in a way I've never experienced before, and they do it consistently.
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...another small point...
....PLEASE understand that just as the nose-wheel is touching down, the noise level in the front office is the loudest (and somewhat busiest) of the entire flight.
NOT a good time to radio to us "ABC123, next right, over to Ground 121.x, blah blah...." WHAT DID THEY JUST SAY?? "Say again...??"
We know you are busy fitting out round pegs into the square holes around us, but hold off that transmission for just 15 more seconds. Once the reversers are stowed, you can tell us exactly what to do...'cause THEN we can HEAR YOU!
(or...how about clearing instructions when we first say 'ello?)
Cheers!
C.O.
PS: DXB isn't the only place guilt of this annoyance, but it has crept into the scene more recently there for some reason.
NOT a good time to radio to us "ABC123, next right, over to Ground 121.x, blah blah...." WHAT DID THEY JUST SAY?? "Say again...??"
We know you are busy fitting out round pegs into the square holes around us, but hold off that transmission for just 15 more seconds. Once the reversers are stowed, you can tell us exactly what to do...'cause THEN we can HEAR YOU!
(or...how about clearing instructions when we first say 'ello?)
Cheers!
C.O.
PS: DXB isn't the only place guilt of this annoyance, but it has crept into the scene more recently there for some reason.
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jet4hire
Nah, that's one of my fellow-drivers. He'll be delighted to hear he's achieved the dizzying heights of a mention in the hallowed halls of pprune, though
Doodlebug
Nah, that's one of my fellow-drivers. He'll be delighted to hear he's achieved the dizzying heights of a mention in the hallowed halls of pprune, though
Doodlebug
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Ok was trying to resist but what the hell.............
Yes there are a handful amongst us that tend to go ott, we all know who they are and trust me we're trying to sort it but it's a slow process as they've mostly been atco's since Pontious was a pilot!
We all do our utmost but our patience does wear thin every once in awhile especially with pilots who think there outside Europe so they don't need to pay attention. Next time a controller barks just remember we're trying to do our job with not enough people, a crap system and a regulator who blames us for everything!
Rgds FT
Yes there are a handful amongst us that tend to go ott, we all know who they are and trust me we're trying to sort it but it's a slow process as they've mostly been atco's since Pontious was a pilot!
We all do our utmost but our patience does wear thin every once in awhile especially with pilots who think there outside Europe so they don't need to pay attention. Next time a controller barks just remember we're trying to do our job with not enough people, a crap system and a regulator who blames us for everything!
Rgds FT
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ManaAdaSystem.
I was just having a laugh.
Remember, it's arguably worse for us at the centre. We have to talk to them all the time, and put up with their 'interesting' techniques.
I was just having a laugh.
Remember, it's arguably worse for us at the centre. We have to talk to them all the time, and put up with their 'interesting' techniques.
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Could one of the Dubai ATCO's tell me why we have to make the extraordinary long call on initial contact (published in Jepps) surely this takes up valuable RT time? The longest verbage required by any airport in the world, to my knowledge.
While I am on the questions, why can't DXB's mode c check be satisfactory for UAE and vice versa, climbing out of the UK, the French or Maastricht don't ask for another level passing check?
A delivery frequency would also take alot of pressure off you Ground controllers.
Thanks for the service ladies and gents
brgds
CRS
While I am on the questions, why can't DXB's mode c check be satisfactory for UAE and vice versa, climbing out of the UK, the French or Maastricht don't ask for another level passing check?
A delivery frequency would also take alot of pressure off you Ground controllers.
Thanks for the service ladies and gents
brgds
CRS
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Personally I think you boys are pretty alright over in DXB and I must say considering traffic conditions you do a good job. I also understand how frustrating it must be when you have to repeat clearances sometimes when people miss the call, but hay don't forget we're all just human and more importantly we're one team, together we keep em flying.
Keep up the good work boys
Cheers
Snails
Keep up the good work boys
Cheers
Snails
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I work out of DXB and must say except for the Canadian guy we had a few years ago, who was a bit too highly strung, I find all the ATC pretty good. What I would like to see though is the ATIS abreviated. By the time you listen to that diatribe one and a half times, you have generally missed at least one radio call. Given that the weather conditions rarely change, do we need such a time consuming ATIS broadcast?
I second the call for a delivery freq. EK alone is expanding at a rediculous rate, let alone increased traffic from other airlines and already the ground freq is overloaded. It's only going to get worse, particulary as EK likes to put all its departures around 0800. Do you guys have any plans in the wind to address the problem?
dmf
I second the call for a delivery freq. EK alone is expanding at a rediculous rate, let alone increased traffic from other airlines and already the ground freq is overloaded. It's only going to get worse, particulary as EK likes to put all its departures around 0800. Do you guys have any plans in the wind to address the problem?
dmf
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The initial call, well according to my MATS you're required to pass callsign, type, passing level, cleared level and SID/STAR. That's not really huge is it? If you don't we only have to keep coming back to you again & again until we get the info. It saves us alot of RT time if done correctly.
Mode C checks, seems unnecessary? Couldn't agree more, complete waste of time in IMHO but what regulator demands we must do.
As for on the ground, it is split in two during busy periods, a movements planner & controller. This will become a 24 hour thing as we get more bums on seats in the tower.
New digital ATIS is being installed as we speak but again the regulator raises his ugly head and we have to do what he commands.
Ferris - is there any reason that Dubai is the only place in the world that I know of where the Approach guy doesn't control his/her own hold? Is it just politics?
Hope I answered most things
Rgds FT
Mode C checks, seems unnecessary? Couldn't agree more, complete waste of time in IMHO but what regulator demands we must do.
As for on the ground, it is split in two during busy periods, a movements planner & controller. This will become a 24 hour thing as we get more bums on seats in the tower.
New digital ATIS is being installed as we speak but again the regulator raises his ugly head and we have to do what he commands.
Ferris - is there any reason that Dubai is the only place in the world that I know of where the Approach guy doesn't control his/her own hold? Is it just politics?
Hope I answered most things
Rgds FT
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I can only assume the comment about RVSM is to give you fair warning that unless you have complied rigidly with a number of things, you won't be going up there?
RE; the holds. I couldn't agree more. APP should 'own' the bottom 2 levels, so you can bring them out as you see fit (done in the UK that way?). The whole flow control system needs fixing. It is a joke (but guess who instigated it? We've got buckley's of getting it changed- that instruction would have to come from on high. His lordship is juggling so many balls- lack of delegation- that it's down the list of priorities. There was a thread about 2 years ago critisising the inbound flow- and nothing has changed. It's good to see some common sense coming to the fore and asking us for gaps between 2 inbounds here or there, rather than the blanket '20' call. Could all be done so much better...... aahhh welllll.
Mode C checks- see above re; juggling.
RE; the holds. I couldn't agree more. APP should 'own' the bottom 2 levels, so you can bring them out as you see fit (done in the UK that way?). The whole flow control system needs fixing. It is a joke (but guess who instigated it? We've got buckley's of getting it changed- that instruction would have to come from on high. His lordship is juggling so many balls- lack of delegation- that it's down the list of priorities. There was a thread about 2 years ago critisising the inbound flow- and nothing has changed. It's good to see some common sense coming to the fore and asking us for gaps between 2 inbounds here or there, rather than the blanket '20' call. Could all be done so much better...... aahhh welllll.
Mode C checks- see above re; juggling.
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I think the big man is a dane actually, but yes he is still running the whole show.
Agree on the Mode C checks, a waste of time, as Dubai APP does it then 3 minutes later, us at UAE centre do it, then most likely for Eastbound departures, 5 minutes later Muscat does it.
On the flow, I cannot believe that a place like Melbourne, has a fulltime dedicated Flow position, organising the sequence, whereas Dubai, which is much more congested only has a coordinator, who almost as an afterthought has a look at how the sequence looks. Basically it comes down to the Eastern UAE sector, running his sequence, and the Western UAE sector running his, and then they all come to a grinding halt over Dubai, and we end up with the infamous Dubai Air Show. Must be a better way.
As far as the Grumpy Dubai controllers, I personally have found 90% of them to be good to work with (even all those damn Kiwis!). Just a couple, especially one quite large individual, spoil the broth. Most of the time when things get strained whether its with the pilots, or with us poor centre controllers, its due to frustration at the procedures and restraints placed on them, and nothing personal.
Agree on the Mode C checks, a waste of time, as Dubai APP does it then 3 minutes later, us at UAE centre do it, then most likely for Eastbound departures, 5 minutes later Muscat does it.
On the flow, I cannot believe that a place like Melbourne, has a fulltime dedicated Flow position, organising the sequence, whereas Dubai, which is much more congested only has a coordinator, who almost as an afterthought has a look at how the sequence looks. Basically it comes down to the Eastern UAE sector, running his sequence, and the Western UAE sector running his, and then they all come to a grinding halt over Dubai, and we end up with the infamous Dubai Air Show. Must be a better way.
As far as the Grumpy Dubai controllers, I personally have found 90% of them to be good to work with (even all those damn Kiwis!). Just a couple, especially one quite large individual, spoil the broth. Most of the time when things get strained whether its with the pilots, or with us poor centre controllers, its due to frustration at the procedures and restraints placed on them, and nothing personal.
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Fish,
Isn't it a pleasant change to see reverse slagging in progress. Can anyone remember the last time they saw a topic degenerate into a constructive discussion, on any pprune forum. We had best be careful though, someone will mistake us for professionals and completely blow our disguise.
On the other hand, I find it appalling that pprune is the defacto means of sorting these things out. It would be nice if our management could see beyond the parapets of their ivory towers and invite some of our colleagues from the other trades (ATC etc) to our meetings so that we could discuss something other than jump seat policy, pay and rostering.
Then having fostered a healthy professional relationship, we could adjourn to the Irish Village to continue another fine aviation tradition.
dmf
Isn't it a pleasant change to see reverse slagging in progress. Can anyone remember the last time they saw a topic degenerate into a constructive discussion, on any pprune forum. We had best be careful though, someone will mistake us for professionals and completely blow our disguise.
On the other hand, I find it appalling that pprune is the defacto means of sorting these things out. It would be nice if our management could see beyond the parapets of their ivory towers and invite some of our colleagues from the other trades (ATC etc) to our meetings so that we could discuss something other than jump seat policy, pay and rostering.
Then having fostered a healthy professional relationship, we could adjourn to the Irish Village to continue another fine aviation tradition.
dmf
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The EAA (Emirates Aviation Association) has a newly-formed ATC division, and I'm sure would be happy to send a couple of people along to an EK pilot's meeting (if invited). The EAA actually has some official standing, and may be a way of suggesting changes that a certain person may take onboard. You never know!
The Irish Village does sound good.
The Irish Village does sound good.