Collective Colour Vision Thread 3
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Colour Vision
A friend of mine was wondering, if you fail the CAA class 1 medial on colour vision, and then take the IAA class 1 medical and pass. Can you still convert over a CAA class 1 medical holder. I thought this would be impossible as questions would be asked such as, if you fail on colour vision test for the CAA, and then pass the IAA colur vision test someone of the two was not conducting the test correctly and so on!
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mrg92,
Supposing you 'fail' a CAA medical, when you attend the IAA medical you will be asked on the form THAT YOU SIGN whether you have failed or had any restrictions imposed on any other medical. If you tell the truth that's the end of that; if you decide to be sparing with the facts it WILL come out when you try to convert the IAA medical to a CAA medical.
Monty1977,
Plates 1 - 15 of the Ishihara 24 Plate version is used for the CVD test and the images at the end of the book are not used in the medical......unless you cannnot read, when they would use the images as opposed to the numbers. However, in this case you would not be able to fill out the medical application form. Then again, dyslexia is not a bar to flying. It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone was unable to complete the forms owing to a medical condition. Probably employ some more discrimination, which has been perfected by some national aviation authorities to a find art.
Interesting points from ramseyoptom regarding colour differences between various publishers.
I can also ASSURE you with a 100% cast iron guarantee that you WILL perform differently in natural daylight to ANY form of articifical lighting, including a Northern Daylight lamp. I am personal testament to this and my performance is significantly different in natural daylight, i.e. a pass, when compared to a darkened room lit with an old, poor lamp.
Supposing you 'fail' a CAA medical, when you attend the IAA medical you will be asked on the form THAT YOU SIGN whether you have failed or had any restrictions imposed on any other medical. If you tell the truth that's the end of that; if you decide to be sparing with the facts it WILL come out when you try to convert the IAA medical to a CAA medical.
Monty1977,
Plates 1 - 15 of the Ishihara 24 Plate version is used for the CVD test and the images at the end of the book are not used in the medical......unless you cannnot read, when they would use the images as opposed to the numbers. However, in this case you would not be able to fill out the medical application form. Then again, dyslexia is not a bar to flying. It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone was unable to complete the forms owing to a medical condition. Probably employ some more discrimination, which has been perfected by some national aviation authorities to a find art.
Interesting points from ramseyoptom regarding colour differences between various publishers.
I can also ASSURE you with a 100% cast iron guarantee that you WILL perform differently in natural daylight to ANY form of articifical lighting, including a Northern Daylight lamp. I am personal testament to this and my performance is significantly different in natural daylight, i.e. a pass, when compared to a darkened room lit with an old, poor lamp.
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Any UK pilot have a restricted Class 1 due colour vision deficiency?
I would like to hear [via PM if preferred] of any UK pilot with colour vision restrictions on their medical.
OOW
OOW
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Yep!...I'm one.
Issued a few years ago I also have it in writing from UK CAA that it will remove the restriction the day I obtain a commercial license.
The only restriction is that I have to complete my training in the UK.
Dan
Issued a few years ago I also have it in writing from UK CAA that it will remove the restriction the day I obtain a commercial license.
The only restriction is that I have to complete my training in the UK.
Dan
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Colour vision
Am I correct in saying that, if you took the intinal class 1 medical you are not allowed to do the ishihara plates again if you failed them? And you are allowed to come back and re do the CAD test if you failed it?
Could somebody give me some sort of information, weather or not the CAA still accept the spectrolux lantern test? Do you think will the CAA ever bring in the PAPI light simulator test?
Could somebody give me some sort of information, weather or not the CAA still accept the spectrolux lantern test? Do you think will the CAA ever bring in the PAPI light simulator test?
Last edited by mrg92; 13th Jun 2010 at 14:56.
I had to take a special light test.....proved I could still see colours....was told I would never make it as a RN pilot but still passed. Reckon they knew I was hetero somehow in that case. Never had any other problems until 31 years into my flying career when I was told I was "Color Blind" by an FAA Quack. He relented when the company suggested there were other folks doing FAA Medicals in town.
His position was "You are not seeing the true colours!" despite my being able to discern the difference between Red, Green, Amber, Yellow, White and Blue....which in my mind meets the requirements for being able to safely operate an aircraft....but then what do I and an accident/incident free career have to do with things.
His position was "You are not seeing the true colours!" despite my being able to discern the difference between Red, Green, Amber, Yellow, White and Blue....which in my mind meets the requirements for being able to safely operate an aircraft....but then what do I and an accident/incident free career have to do with things.
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Dantruck,
That seems strange - Why restrict a private and remove restriction for a commercial. What is the restriction exactly?
I am trying to find out what restriction I will get in UK as I fail the usual lab tests but have been flying 24 years without a problem commercially in Oz albeit with the restriction not for ATPL use.
OOW
That seems strange - Why restrict a private and remove restriction for a commercial. What is the restriction exactly?
I am trying to find out what restriction I will get in UK as I fail the usual lab tests but have been flying 24 years without a problem commercially in Oz albeit with the restriction not for ATPL use.
OOW
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My Class 1 medical is "Issued as a Deviation in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.015 and JAR-FCL 2.015."
The only practical restriction is I must complete commercial training in the UK, ie: in our CAA's own backyard...presumably so that they can keep an eye on me and make sure my unblemished private flying record continues at least up until the day they accept the responsibility of having issued me with a commercial ticket.
How I got here is a long story, but basically I long ago failed the Holmes-Wright Lantern test and years later passed the Baynes Lantern test which the CAA had latterly adopted in addition...around 2004, I think. Basically, UK CAA figured out other JAA-land nations had relied on the simpler Baynes test for years without problems, and that its own Holmes-Wright Lantern was knocking out too many safe pilots, ie: people with mild but absolutely consistent colour vision that was just different - but not wrong - to what others see.
If you can pass Baynes you'll be OK. I think UK CAA also has one other lantern in use. The requirement is you only have to be able to pass one of the three to be classed fit.
Best you email CAA medical and ask. They've had to learn to deal with a lot of us 'people of colour' in recent years, and they've got pretty slick at it. In short they've learned that they have been able to back away from the toughest standard without dropping safety levels. The fact you have a clean record will also stand you in good.
Good luck
Dan
The only practical restriction is I must complete commercial training in the UK, ie: in our CAA's own backyard...presumably so that they can keep an eye on me and make sure my unblemished private flying record continues at least up until the day they accept the responsibility of having issued me with a commercial ticket.
How I got here is a long story, but basically I long ago failed the Holmes-Wright Lantern test and years later passed the Baynes Lantern test which the CAA had latterly adopted in addition...around 2004, I think. Basically, UK CAA figured out other JAA-land nations had relied on the simpler Baynes test for years without problems, and that its own Holmes-Wright Lantern was knocking out too many safe pilots, ie: people with mild but absolutely consistent colour vision that was just different - but not wrong - to what others see.
If you can pass Baynes you'll be OK. I think UK CAA also has one other lantern in use. The requirement is you only have to be able to pass one of the three to be classed fit.
Best you email CAA medical and ask. They've had to learn to deal with a lot of us 'people of colour' in recent years, and they've got pretty slick at it. In short they've learned that they have been able to back away from the toughest standard without dropping safety levels. The fact you have a clean record will also stand you in good.
Good luck
Dan
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Typical restriction for coming up with colour blindness in the standard medical in UK is "Day VFR" and also that you must use a radio to communicate with airfields, if the airfield has a radio (ie not fly a non-radio aircraft and rely on signal lights).
Stops you getting a CPL unless the restriction is removed.
Failing to see the "hidden" numbers in the standard test is not the end; you can get the restriction removed if you can pass one of two other tests to show that it is not an issue. You can apply for a lantern test, or a new computer based test - both of which I think you sit at CAA in Gawick.
I am told that the computer test is the one most likely to test what you actually need, but that is third-hand, unverified.
Stops you getting a CPL unless the restriction is removed.
Failing to see the "hidden" numbers in the standard test is not the end; you can get the restriction removed if you can pass one of two other tests to show that it is not an issue. You can apply for a lantern test, or a new computer based test - both of which I think you sit at CAA in Gawick.
I am told that the computer test is the one most likely to test what you actually need, but that is third-hand, unverified.
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I took the Class 1 medical in January. I've always been 'slightly' colorblind to red/green (not uncommon in men, it seems) and regularly fail (every time) the Ishihari plate test. I paid an additional £150 for a second test which I passed and received my Class 1 licence. It's long, tedious and boring but, apparently, most people can pass it.
Chief Bottle Washer
Off to Medical & Health, I think 
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I failed the lantern tests at Gatwick (not a surprise, since I got 13 of the 15 Ishihara plates wrong). I declined the opportunity to try out the new CAD test as it was still "experimental" at the time.
I now have a Class 1 medical that allows flight by day only and prohibits public transport. I do not have to complete the night flying requirement for my CPL, but when I get it it will allow me to do aerial work including flight instruction. No public transport, flights by day only and only in UK airspace in UK reg aircraft.
I now have a Class 1 medical that allows flight by day only and prohibits public transport. I do not have to complete the night flying requirement for my CPL, but when I get it it will allow me to do aerial work including flight instruction. No public transport, flights by day only and only in UK airspace in UK reg aircraft.
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I declined the opportunity to try out the new CAD test as it was still "experimental" at the time.
Which reminds me, I must change my stage name. It seems rather inappropriate now.
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I took the CAD test this week. The first thing they do is check your colour perception with Ishihara plates. I failed 2 (which was better than I was expecting- guess that's what happens when you practice them on the internet!) so then moved on to the CAD test itself. It only takes 15 minutes apparently but it felt like much longer. The test is designed to find the threshold of your colour perception and it zooms in then hovers around it so apparently its difficult for everybody, even if you've got perfect colour vision. The CAA staff are very nice and explain it all to you.
I scored 2.4 which means I passed! Woooo!
After having spent the last 15 years convinced I couldn't be a pilot, now I find I can Best £120 I've ever spent!
I scored 2.4 which means I passed! Woooo!
After having spent the last 15 years convinced I couldn't be a pilot, now I find I can
Best £120 I've ever spent!
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Im going to be somewhat negative on the colour vision subject..
Can you see Red/Green/White light? i not talking about dark or light colour or shades, if i asked you to shine a flashlight, emmiting those primary colours, could you tell me which are which...?
Ishihara test, JAA 24 plate version, 15/15 required, ishihara book instructions clearly state, test concidered passed if 13 or more are read correctely so it 13/15 clearly printed..
lantern tests should be tested at low and then high intensity, yes it has two settings but cannot justify why tested at low only. not in Medical reference for JAA or CAA
the bynne lantern, red/green/blue/yellow. the examiner is to advise on the colour presented, optometrist at gatwick does not do this.
Nagel Scope, inportant note, Normals can fail this, required 4 units to pass.
Now the CAD test, the option is that this test is supposed to be and this is what CAA say and City university state 100% accurate, i laught at this cause no test on the plannet can give you 100%, thats like saying to the CAA, produce a pregnancy test, which is agian 100%, cant happen, subject to human error and other factors. They state the cad test is easy, its not, and the test itself goes at a very fast rate and they say it is presented on a gray pixalised background which flickers, will it does flicker but not a grey nuteral background.
some people have passed the cad test, good for them, does it mean that the are still safe for night flying ?? should the CAA adopt faa style tests for the falant, no , excuse it too easy, one comment left was from a gentleman who passed the ishihara test, but failed the CAD, and CAA could not give a reason for this, personally i laught at that.. so if i pass 13/15 plates, i can drive a train, and be a fireman, but yet cannot fly an airliner. I think the joke is at the CAA for spending a huge ammount of money on a test, which still does not prove any practicality.
please comment on your views, when i see airliners now, i think of bankrupt companies, and those people who are training for their frozen atpl's, hope you will get a flight instruction rating cause there will be no jobs for a while, so wearing 4 bars will be a while to happen..
Can you see Red/Green/White light? i not talking about dark or light colour or shades, if i asked you to shine a flashlight, emmiting those primary colours, could you tell me which are which...?
Ishihara test, JAA 24 plate version, 15/15 required, ishihara book instructions clearly state, test concidered passed if 13 or more are read correctely so it 13/15 clearly printed..
lantern tests should be tested at low and then high intensity, yes it has two settings but cannot justify why tested at low only. not in Medical reference for JAA or CAA
the bynne lantern, red/green/blue/yellow. the examiner is to advise on the colour presented, optometrist at gatwick does not do this.
Nagel Scope, inportant note, Normals can fail this, required 4 units to pass.
Now the CAD test, the option is that this test is supposed to be and this is what CAA say and City university state 100% accurate, i laught at this cause no test on the plannet can give you 100%, thats like saying to the CAA, produce a pregnancy test, which is agian 100%, cant happen, subject to human error and other factors. They state the cad test is easy, its not, and the test itself goes at a very fast rate and they say it is presented on a gray pixalised background which flickers, will it does flicker but not a grey nuteral background.
some people have passed the cad test, good for them, does it mean that the are still safe for night flying ?? should the CAA adopt faa style tests for the falant, no , excuse it too easy, one comment left was from a gentleman who passed the ishihara test, but failed the CAD, and CAA could not give a reason for this, personally i laught at that.. so if i pass 13/15 plates, i can drive a train, and be a fireman, but yet cannot fly an airliner. I think the joke is at the CAA for spending a huge ammount of money on a test, which still does not prove any practicality.
please comment on your views, when i see airliners now, i think of bankrupt companies, and those people who are training for their frozen atpl's, hope you will get a flight instruction rating cause there will be no jobs for a while, so wearing 4 bars will be a while to happen..