ndr1804

Do we know for sure that EASA have this as a directive not to allow CV deficiency in the class 1.

I am sick to death of Europe sticking its nose into everything.

Like I've said before go FAA class and fly November reg however you do it. They know what they are doing in the States, they build most of the aircraft of the world and the airspace situation is right as well.

You don't know where the hell you are over here from mode S to Lisencing.

I wonder if a PPL would be allowed an Instrument rating then with a slight colour deficiency.
regards
ndr1804

Scottish.CPL

well ive descided to stop, stop wanting a career were the rules are not fair, and not justified.

im sick of the CAA, is sick to in EASA making things worse, is sick of it all. I will continue to fly on my FAA licence, and i will never apply for a JAA EASA license....

ive been getting negativity from the idiots that have the spectrolux, check my last few messages.

Once thing i do like though was a friend of mine in the US, he said to me ' mate its is funny because in NASA the medical is more or less the same your faa class 1, it fair, and recognised internationally'

its going to be fun the amount of flight instructors, examiners and people who cant get a full medical or full atpl due to the vcl limitation but work for flight schools, and they will be scr$ed. no grandfather rights......

ChiefDM

Hmm thats interesting. What is the definitive situation regarding being retested for CV if you pass the initial at the moment? Does it get retested? I read in one place that they don't retest CV as it's not supposed to get better or worse, then in other places I read that they do retest because it can get worse as a symptom of things like diabetes?

When the new regs come in will it mean that everyone is retested for CV anyway at their first renewal? If they are surely this means that anyone passing now with CVD won't pass at a renewal once EASA comes into effect .

Scottish.CPL

hi cheifDM

my thought are the same, its getting crazy, like the faa every medical you do the cv is retested, thats the procedure. they will always use the ishihara plates as a starting point and then the lanterns, or the **** CAD test...

is there a link out now were it goes over the proposed esea vision standards now ?

ChiefDM

Another point I've just thought of, if it is true that CVD isn't allowed to any degree under EASA regs.... what was the point in spending a truck load of cash developing and implementing the CAD in the first place?!

Scottish.CPL

before i reply to this... already there are people including yourself buddy, that are now becoming rebelius, it a good way.. Its like life at the moment, people are fed up paying more tax, to bail out governments, and to pay for the people that should not be here.

as my father said to me, 'its starting'

i agree, the whole thing is stupid, in order to fly in the RAF, u need to pass the ishihara , no errors, fair enough it a competative job, and even after aptidute , they still need to weed out the possibles from the no possibles, and like the ishihara does state if 13 or more plates are passed the cv is normal, 15/15 is used to make it easier to fail even colour normals but base it on standards, hmm higher that the test recommends..

I dont see the armed forces, nor london underground using this cad, and the cv standards to the underground state up to two misreadings for ishihara ie 13 min plates, so you can drive a train, but not a bloody airliner lol,

ndr1804

Not interested in driving trains or being a NASA astronaut but points taken. I've always said that to colour deficiency has never affected my ability to fly an aircraft. Even if you couldn't tell the PAPI lights what happened to runway situation recognition and for that matter the ILS. Doesn't matter how colourful your glass cockpit is you would still be able to distinguish the the relevent information.

What about when EASA sticks its nose in, how many PPL's will loose their night ratings or instrument ratings.

I was always told you have to be able to see distinct colours mainly White, red, green, never seen that many cloured dots so close together in a cockpit anyway. With modern day communications GPS and alike you would think that we could now fly safely without the need for relying on colour. Runway, approach and taxi way lighting are all distinctive shapes anyway.

You've done it now you lot . I thought I'd left and got rid of all these negative feelings.

regards NDR1804

Scottish.CPL

hi agian

You've done it now you lot . I thought I'd left and got rid of all these negative feelings..

get over it mate, things are changing and if it means negative feeling, these are the things we need to fight on, it going to affect us all,

the issue over instrument or IMC is still being debated, the issue over EASA changing cv issue, ie doing the tests again at every medical, the faa do that too.

all i know now is that i am sick to death of all the bull sh** as well.

ChiefDM

All of that said I've just found this in an EASA Medical Requirements doc NPA 2008/17c.

As I read that its a similar situation to what we have now, i.e. if you can pass the tests then you are deemed to be colour safe, so it doesn't seem like there is a strictly no CVD rule. Could be wrong though.... lol

ndr1804

Well thats the words I was looking for. As I understand it I seem to be colour safe..............How they detect their colour safe could be another matter.

Regards
NDR1804

Scottish.CPL

it seems to be going backwards

the current rules are that if you cant pass to the standard, but pass the ishihara test standard (recommended) or other tests, then you can still fly as an instructor, by day only..

it now seems even that option is going down the shi*** ,

also anyone that was diagnosed wrong, ie ishihara misread, issue with lighting, or age of the plates, if they advised to be rested for cvd at renewal, that could be positive or negativve, ie someone that is boarderline and can give the proper responces..

ndr1804

I have never understood the principal of stopping people flying at night.

To me the colours are even more distinct at night.

Its like motorway driving with the different coloured cats eyes. If you can't tell the different colours of them doesn't matter they out line the road perimeter and junctions anyway.

ChiefDM

Well for what its worth I'm off to City for the full assessment on the 20th October..... wish me luck!

ndr1804

Best of luck mate I hope you are successful.........Report back every little detail so we can share your experience.

regards

NDR1804

2close

So it is being suggested that EASA can introduce legislation that will remove the livelihoods, income and financial stability of some flight instructors.

I would have though that would be in breach of EU Human Rights Legislation and EASA cannot introduce one law which breaches another. The primary legislation would be the HR Legislation, thereby rendering the Part Medical legislation unlawful and open to challenge. I would like to say that they are opening a can of worms for themselves but the devious brains at the head of the chicken know all this and would just tie any claimant up with months if not years of legal argument and massive bills.

But of far more significance is the human effect. Only a few months back a colleague of my partner was made redundant and made a very marked protest to senior management by commiting suicide in front of the workforce.

This is the highly tragic effect that taking a person's livelihood can have and there have been many similar cases over the years.

The truth of the matter is that the aviation authorities do not care about individuals, only their power, salaries, pensions and perks.

I just hope they are ready to accept the consequences of their actions, should the worst happen.

2close

'Morning Windforce and all,

I have just been reviewing the Equality Act 2010, which came into effect yesterday, 01 October 2010, and the various Regulations that supplement it and there are some very interesting developments.

There are some new and VERY valid grounds for taking on the CAA (and EASA if necessary) in the Courts, which did not exist before the introduction of these new laws.

Some of you will be aware that moves were made 2 years ago to commence legal proceedings against the CAA but that these were placed on hold pending the development of the CAD. Correspondence received at that time from the CAA Chief Legal Adviser made it clear that the CAA would spend as much public funds as necessary defending its position on this issue.

(As a separate point, that's where your aviation fees go folks, shoring up their grossly over-inflated salaries, final salary pension schemes, subsidised perks and pointless legal cases, defending the indefensible and prosecuting private pilots who have committed minor transgressions. Hopefully, the present government will see what a waste of funds and oxygen the CAA as an individual organisation is and EVOLVE its tasks to the DVLA. I cannot see how, in the present climate, with the massive slashing changes being made to Public Sector departments, the CAA can survive, despite its attempts to hide being a very thin veil of being a private company - YOU ARE A PUBLIC CORPORATION. THAT MAKES YOU PUBLIC SECTOR. It is already struggling to achieve its tasks, owing to manpower reductons- and failing miserably in the majority of them. Get rid of it and send the few aviation experts that are actually required to work at DVLA Swansea - that should get the termination of employment notices flooding in so they won't have to worry about redundancy payments )

Furthermore, EASA is right at the bottom of the Christmas Card list of certain EU Ministers so some very strongly worded letters are being sent this week to the EU Parliament regarding the draconian implementation of the new rules and the effect it is going to have on the livelihoods of certain individuals.

If anyone is SERIOUSLY interested in pursuing this matter in the Courts, please contact me via PM asap. But make no bones about it, it will probably require some funding to get the ball rolling, although some work has already been done.

Get in touch guys.

2close

Scottish.CPL

well, does'nt easa have a loving caring attitude,

i found out that i meet the medical standards for a canadian cpl, might see about getting a job flying cargo, or maybe a job like that one the documentry ice pilot..

its funny the colour vision standards are ok, 13/15 plates on ishihara... and they also accept the farnsworth d-15 test as well, none of your CAD s***. we are talking practicle and meaning full tests, the type of tests that relate to the real word 'CAA take Note', i have so much negativity from switxerland over the spectrolux, they wont let me arrange an appointment unless my ame or flight surgeon write me a letter, it like being back in school lol...

so all polits on class 1's with cvd will be scr*** in 2013, think of all the instructors on the dole, and of course any examiners, the one thing that made me laugh was that the JAA maunal, oh sorry the BIBLE, said that colour vision may be retested if clinical bases is warrent....... hmmmm,

aviation is turning to .

ndr1804

Will this mean all pilots with cvd can't have an instrument rating. Why the hell not?. Half the bl**dy cockpits instruments are black and white anyway. Oh then comes their little favourite saying "but with all the coloured new efis glass cockpit instruments it will affect you,"...........well no actually it bl**dywell does'nt affect me.

Never had a problem deciphering instrument information black & white or colour.

They make it out to be such an issue, hell, next they will want us to stop driving due to not being able to tell traffic lights or cats eye's in road.

I'd love to know how many aircraft were manoerved by light signals alone at heathrow. How many accidents occurred due to CVD.last one was probably when it was a grass strip with Blackburn aircraft on it.

I'm sorry but my eye sight for flying has got me through the past 27 years with no restrictions on my class 2 license. (MUST BE COLOUR SAFE THEN>>>!!!!!!) Don't ever recall not being able to find an airfield, or runway or taxi light or even spot another aircraft in flight. Must of been those colourful WHITE strobes
Both my ICAO (hands off EASA)and JAA licenses are still running.

So it begs the question all those FAA and other countries pilots with CVD will they be banned from flying over here and EU...??????????? If not, go get your FAA or any other License and fly on that reg over here......Who gives a s**t who's name is on the license so long as you can legally fly for a living and do night or instrument....FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT there will be enough of us out there.....

NDR1804

AnthonyGA

I've been looking for EASA regulations that change the situation for color-deficient pilots, but I haven't found any. I have the impression that hysteria is taking over here, for no good reason.

I've reviewed the NPA 2008-17c, previously quoted here, and apparently the most recent document concerning color vision for pilots from the EASA, and it does not require normal color vision for pilot licensing.

In fact, in the responses to comments submitted on this draft proposal, the EASA makes clear that its own proposed requirements are based directly on JAR FCL 3. So, overall, no change.

A surprising number of comments on the draft decision from people outside the agency insisted that anything less than normal color vision could be "very dangerous" for aviation. Fortunately, these comments were rejected by the agency.

The draft regulations still allow color-deficient individuals to pilot aircraft (including Class 1 medicals and night flight), provided that they are "color-safe," which simply means that they need to be able to see colors well enough to fly … just as the situation is today. If they don't pass the Ishihara test, they shall undergo "further colour perception testing"—no specific test is mandated.

For Class 1 specifically, the draft regulations suggests testing on revalidation "on clinical indication"—which means if there is a reason to suspect that color vision has changed. It suggests anomaloscopy or lantern testing for pilots who fail the Ishihara, but does not mandate it.

Note that the first requirements are mandated by the language of the draft ("shall"); the second requirements are only suggested ("should"). This is an important distinction in documents of this kind.

Overall, I don't see exactly what the problem is. The draft regulations appear to simply echo the current applicable regulations. I don't see anything that will deprive current pilots of their livelihood. So what is all the panic about?

Incidentally, there are no recognized human rights that entitle a person to earn a living from the profession of his choice, so going that route is a waste of time. Nor is there any such right that entitles a person to keep the job that he has had in the past.

Scottish.CPL

hi mate, ano the general issue is possibly mis info for miss read.

im my position, i recently did a medical for the police and for train driver, and when is did the ishihara plates, no errors, and the lightning was correct.

im confused as to the plates and the lighting at gatwich, and before you all ask, the plates were done in a random order.....

i wonder if i can claime clinical reason for a reteest at renewal, i have to do it for the faa, and now for the canada transport medical..