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Rasco,

Forget your examiner's over-inflated ego (bloody offended indeed - who the do these people think they are!!).

JARs are simple and explicit - if you fail Ishihara you only have to pass EITHER the Nagel Anomaloscope OR the Holmes-Wright, NOT both.

When you passed the one he should NOT have tested you on the other.

Get a copy of the Nagel results, come to the UK with them, present them to the UK CAA at your Class One Medical and you will be passed.

Ever so 'slightly' enraged!!!!!

Roll on the bloody (in more ways than one!) revolution - there won't be enough lamp-posts to go around!!!

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C172 Hawk XP

OK, I plead guilty ! Maybe I'm the only one who doesn't understand american acronyms !

Could someone please explain to me what's meant by :

ASVAB
WOFS
AFAST
and
SOL

Sounds to me as if you are mildly colour deficient (as tested by Ishihara, etc) but have been deemed safe by Lantern test (s). That would be my interpretation of
If that's the case, once deemed colour safe to issue a class 1 then further testing should not be required. So, something odd seems to have happened here !

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This thread is predominately populated by Europeans who are generally shafted up the ricker by antiquated, irrelevant and discriminatory JAA (and soon EASA) rules and not many (if any) who would be able to help you with the US Armed Forces protocols.

I would suggest one of the US Military Blogs as a better source of info.

Good luck with your quest and if you do find the answer please be sure to post it here.

HTH

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fireoff

Hi All,
I'm 16 and recently started flying lessons. After school I hope to pursue a career in aviation as a pilot...1 problem...my eyes.

I am on the border - Here are the results from a recent ophthamologist exam:

Vision:
Right with +5.00 DS is 6/6
Left with +4.50 DS is 6/6

Colour vision - Normal with isihara in each eye

Cover Test - No phoria with glasses

Alternating cover test - Small esophoria mesauring 5 dioptres

Field of Vision (Humphrey's) - Normal (with a copy)

Fundoscopy - Normal each eye

Now I don't really know what all that means but maybe someone out there might decipher it please? Also as an ophthamologist is of a higher "rank" persay than a doctor in terms of the eye will the doctor doing the medical look at my results and say "okay he knows best and has wriiten and signed it" (my ophthamologist is known throughout Ireland by eye specialists and doctors) or will they say "no we're doing it again and what we say goes"? All advice and answers will be gladly appreciated.

Many Thanks,
Fireoff

C172 Hawk XP

Yes, true . . . . . . but ALL other aspects of vision too. The thread title is "VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)".

It now runs to thirty-three pages. Is it any wonder that newcomers can't be bothered to plough right through everything from the beginning ?

Might there just be some mileage in allowing certain OCULAR related topics to be self-contained threads ?

#646 above, topic of Exotropia, would be a very good candidate. Nothing to do with visual acuity, lenses or glasses at all.

Chucky333

Happy New Year All !!!

Ok, its been a very long time since I have been on this forum, but I have now decided its time to take the plunge and have my Colour Vision Assessment at Gatwick.
I knew from a very early age that I was colourblind and having had to receive the news that I couldn't become a pilot devastated me and I put the idea right out of my head.
Anyway to cut a long story short, I have decided to have the test done to determine if my degree of colour deficiency will affect me from pursuing my dream of becoming a commercial pilot.
I have got my assessment booked on Tuesday and I have mixed emotions. On one hand im nervous because I dont want to hear the bad news and the other hand im excited just incase I pass and can finally take a big leap into the world of Aviation.

I will keep you all informed on my progress !!!

Wish me luck !!!

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Chucky,

There is an absolute wealth of information regarding these test that can be gleaned from the guys on these pages and I just wish you had given us a tad more notice that you were doing your test tomorrow.

Personally, I would postpone tomorrow's test (unexpected case of the lurgy) for a few weeks and listen to what the people here have to say.

You may be pleasantly surprised at the eventual outcome.

However, if you decide to go ahead, I wish you all the best.

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Chucky333

Hello All

Thanks for everyones support, I only just read the messages and judging my some of the context, I looked a little too late.
Unfortunately I failed my Colour Vision Assessment today at Gatwick.

Ishihara Plates - 2 Correct
Beyne Lantern - 3 Incorrect
Holmes Wright Lantern - I lost count how many I got wrong !!!

Well, I had a feeling I would fail the Ishihara Plates because I have come across these before.
However, the first part of the Beyne Lantern test went really well and I was thinking how easy the test was. But on coming to the last couple of lights, I seriously struggled.
The Holmes Wright Lantern test was the last test I did.
When the optician gave me a demonstration of how the test worked, I thought that it looked difficult enough, but he then informs me that the lights are on demo mode and will be much dimmer !!!
And much dimmer they were, this test was a complete nightmare and I knew I had failed after a couple of lights.

On a brighter note, I was informed that there was a new test coming in which hadn't yet been approved by City University. I am holding hope that there will be a light at the end of the tunnel after all.

Although I am obviously disheartened, I am NOT going to give up the fight to become a commercial pilot !!!

WE WILL ALL MAKE OUR DREAM COME TRUE !!!

Regards

Chucky.

colourblindgeek

Chucky

Look at this as the beginning - not the end. Welcome to the Club! Where roses are green, violets are red and we are all white with envy towards those with the ability to pass ishihara plates.

Let me be clear. The above is a joke. I can see red, green, white, yellow and blue as clearly as my Flying Instructor when we are in the sky. He cant understand why I am classed as unsafe!

There are a few (understatement!) people here waiting to hear about the so-called CAD test. This is the one developed by City Uni that has been sitting at the CAA for many months. It was due to be available from November 2008 but despite many attempts for a date, it still remains a complete mystery to the point of being imaginery.

I hope to god that your comment about awaiting City Approval was incorrect as the rest of us have all been led to believe that City have done their bit and are simply waiting for the CAA to approve it.

But when?

So they said that it will soon be available. Get back to them my friend. Ask them for a release date for that new test. They've given you half the information but as usual its a "we'll see".

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

We will all happily support you through this dilema. There are other options still for you. Spectrolux, FAA. You could even go to City Uni to get a really good understanding of your CVD. With CVD you can still work in the industry.

I know I'm absolutely borderline, but need to do the Spectrolux again in the hope that my 23/24 becomes 24/24. That involves a £200 round trip to Zurich.

But get back to the CAA first. When is the CAD test due?

Good luck

Let the pink mist come down and use your anger to show your orange side.

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The issue as I understand it with the CAD test (a test that you can actually pass by closing your eyes and guessing - very accurate that!!) is that not all EASA member states have approved it.

This is hardly surprising when you look at the sample of test subjects and the nature of the testing - all laboratory testing and ZERO practical correlation. The proverbial academic's wet dream.

Apparently, on good information, there is also an opinion amongst other EASA member states that the current CVD requirements are excessive and should be relaxed. It is the UK with certain backing from a rather large international civil aviation organisation (which must remain nameless) which is stamping its feet to get its way to maintain the status quo; this is hardly surprising considering the egg that will be spread right across the faces of certain individuals if they don't get the CAD accepted across the board.

Saying that, knowing the way the back corridors of arm-twisting work it is probably only a matter of time before they get their way.

Rasco

Thanks windforce, I'll look it up, and maybe you could pm me when you know? I know it's a hard one. But I've passed it one time in Sweden (matching range of 3). But the AME tested me on the H/W aswell which I failed brutally, therefore he told me that I'm nothing but colour unsafe. I've taken contact with the swedish authorities to look at my case so we'll see what happens.

Anyways, I would like to have another go at it(for obvious reasons) in another JAA-land. I just hope it wasn't only luck that gave a matching range within the parmeters for passing the test.

When I talked to one of the authority-guys he said that the JAA-rules we have today regarding CVD wasn't good since it just says that you're colour safe if you pass ONE of the 4 extra tests (Beynes, H/W, Spectro and Anomalo.). The new "european" rules, as he called them, will work the other way around. Saying that if you fail ONE of the 4 extra tests you're declared as colour UNSAFE. I don't now when those rules will imply. But it doesn't sound good for the future.

My spirit is still up though, and I hope yours is to!

TelBoy

Rasco

Fact is if you have passed a JAA colour vision test (1 of the 4 or ishihara of course) then you are colour safe and that is that. If you can give the CAA proof that you have passed one of the tests they will class you as colour safe.

The only problem (fight) is when you have failed one of the tests at Gatwick and pass it somewhere else, but the same rule will apply.

I don't know about Sweeden, but JAR's are just that - go to the courts if needed.

Happy flying mate and all the best to you.

Telboy

Rasco

TelBoy

I understand what you are saying. But I did the anomaloscope at the same time as the H/W and even though it says (=3 scale units) on my anomaloscope result the conclusion of the extended colour vision examination is that I'm colour unsafe. So I don't have just one paper saying that I passed the anomaloscope, just a paper showing my results and a conclusion stating that I'm a colour retard.

The swedish CAA said they would have another look at my case and take contact with me within a month. So I'm waiting at the moment. But from what I heard from the CAA-guy and since I fail more than half of the Ishihara plates and failed the H/W(badly) I'm pretty sure they won't change their minds.

It's really annoying to know that if I would only have had an anomaloscope examination they would see me as colour safe.

We'll see what happens. If there's a will there's a way, right?

Cheers

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I know we've been over this ground before but the PRESENT rules are clear - you are only required to pass ONE of the tests.

Therefore, you have fulfilled JARs and the doc has got it wrong!!

Now, if the rules change under EASA so that if you FAIL any one of the battery of tests you are out then that will throw a spanner in the works.

If you read FARs carefully this is the present system in the USA but they don't actually implement it that way. FARs state that you fail if you fail any one of the battery of tests but in fact they apply the opposite, by passing anyone who passes any one of the tests.

If the powers that be implement this and a CVD test at every medical this could seriously cause problems for anyone currently flying having passed just one of the tests.

llobregat

Anybody knows the Ishihara plates version at Gatwick?

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24 Plate, as per JARs.

Gavin Smith

Towards the end of last year I took my class 1 medical at Gatwick and failed the ishihara plates followed by the lantern test (my prescription wasn't 100% but don't think I would of passed it anyway). I was told by a friend of a friend who is a pilot that he flew with a colourblind pilot from the UK as he went to get a faa certificate.
Can anyone tell me if this is possible. I had a quick look and found that the colour blindness test is less strict than the CAA but is there anyway of finding out in the uk rather than having to make a special expensive trip to the US only to find out that I cannot become a pilot.
Also does it restrict me to working in America and there not living in the UK?
Thanks in advance.

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First of all, there are stacks of FAA AMEs in the UK who can test you, without having to go to the USA.

Next, how many errors did you make on Ishihara? FARs require no more than 6 errors on the 24 plate version (although the manufacturer states a maximumof 2 errors). So, if you make more than 6 errors you will also fail Ishihara for the FAA.

Alternative testing for the FAA is different to that for JAA. The UK uses the Beyne and Holmes-Wright Lantern Tests, which you have already failed. The other tests accepted are the Anomaloscope (forget it!) and the Spectrolux, presently only available in Switzerland.

The FAA uses the Farnsworth Lantern Test, which can be arranged in the UK, or a Colour Signal Lamp Test but this is a practical test at an aerodrome and must be conducted in the USA. The FAA intends to do away with these alternatives in the foreseeable future.

You will not be permitted to fly UK registered aircraft commercially with FAA licences but there are many countries (outside the EU) that do recognise FAA licences.

There is a great deal of information in these pages and whilst there may seem a lot to trawl through it may be worth your while - you'll soon be able to sort the wheat from the chaff.

HTH

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llobregat

1 mistake at ishihara, 1 mistake first round beyne, no mistake second round=> class 1 no restriction

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llobregat.

Very interesting. Where did you do your test, when you were given a second shot at Beynes?