VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Australia
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do see an optometrist ASAP. Firstly, poor eyesight is a nuisance for yourself. Secondly, I guess there's a chance that they won't renew your medical until you get your glasses, if your eyesight happens to have fallen below the required limit.
I don't know what country you're in, but you might well need a backup pair of glasses (if you are in the UK, you do, unless they changed things). Not sure about two pairs of normal glasses and two pairs of sunglasses though - I guess the way around it would be to have two pairs of glasses with clip on shades.
I don't know what country you're in, but you might well need a backup pair of glasses (if you are in the UK, you do, unless they changed things). Not sure about two pairs of normal glasses and two pairs of sunglasses though - I guess the way around it would be to have two pairs of glasses with clip on shades.
Psychophysiological entity
In my unqualified opinion, you need to take immediate remedial action and this means more than going to an optician.
If the eye has become sub-standard, there is a reason and you need to know what is causing the problem. Just blurry, is not an option for a pilot.
There may be several reasons why the cornea, lens and or its encapsulation become unclear.
Local hospitals in the UK will usually have an emergency clinic with an eye surgeon in attendance. His staff will put you through a full check up before you go in to see him or her.
Astigmatism is in simple terms a variation of focus with angle. Any correction has to be made at a specific angle but the lens can be clear in other respects. However, the image even with moderate astigmatism, can be very unclear. Red LEDs on a clock for instance, can show a secondary image to one side, leaving the top an bottom well defined. Or any other angle of course.
Keep us posted.
If the eye has become sub-standard, there is a reason and you need to know what is causing the problem. Just blurry, is not an option for a pilot.
There may be several reasons why the cornea, lens and or its encapsulation become unclear.
Local hospitals in the UK will usually have an emergency clinic with an eye surgeon in attendance. His staff will put you through a full check up before you go in to see him or her.
Astigmatism is in simple terms a variation of focus with angle. Any correction has to be made at a specific angle but the lens can be clear in other respects. However, the image even with moderate astigmatism, can be very unclear. Red LEDs on a clock for instance, can show a secondary image to one side, leaving the top an bottom well defined. Or any other angle of course.
Keep us posted.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 300 and up
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Red LEDs on a clock for instance, can show a secondary image to one side, leaving the top an bottom well defined. Or any other angle of course.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????
Psychophysiological entity
I was giving an example of one particular angle, say 080, and the image that you might see with slight to moderate astigmatism.
I picked the colour red because there is a higher probability that this light will be problematic, or for the purpose of testing, demonstrate a defect more dramatically with an everyday object. An LED number is made up of 7 segments, three of which are horizontal and four vertical...or near enough.
A single point of light may show an almost complete secondary image, offset to a constant angle. The colour of the light may well affect the degree to which you see this error but the angle will stay the same.
I picked the colour red because there is a higher probability that this light will be problematic, or for the purpose of testing, demonstrate a defect more dramatically with an everyday object. An LED number is made up of 7 segments, three of which are horizontal and four vertical...or near enough.
A single point of light may show an almost complete secondary image, offset to a constant angle. The colour of the light may well affect the degree to which you see this error but the angle will stay the same.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Italy
Age: 39
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
strabismus
Hello,
I'm writing to ask if someone else know if strabismus (no diplopia or double vision) is a disqualifying factor for a class 1 JAA cartificate. The same for a class 1 FAA certificate.
Thanks in advance
I'm writing to ask if someone else know if strabismus (no diplopia or double vision) is a disqualifying factor for a class 1 JAA cartificate. The same for a class 1 FAA certificate.
Thanks in advance
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: norwich
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CORRECTING ASTIGMATISM
Hi guys,
I have recently hit a brick wall with my application with the RAF for pilot. I have been told I have a -0.25 astigmatism in both eyes. I have had several private eye sight tests since and all have been different. So within a few months it seems to be all over the place!
Is there anyone out there who can offer advice or knows of someone who can help make my eye better and be fit for RAF pilot selection again?
Cheers, look forward to the floods of replys!
I have recently hit a brick wall with my application with the RAF for pilot. I have been told I have a -0.25 astigmatism in both eyes. I have had several private eye sight tests since and all have been different. So within a few months it seems to be all over the place!
Is there anyone out there who can offer advice or knows of someone who can help make my eye better and be fit for RAF pilot selection again?
Cheers, look forward to the floods of replys!
Gizajob
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: uk
Age: 49
Posts: 627
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not an optician and I don't know much about RAF medicals, however I am astigmatic and I did have trouble in years gone by getting a civvie class 1...
There is nothing much you can do about astigmatism, any more than you can 'cure' short sight (the two often go together by the way). 0.25 dioptres is about the minimum a high street optician can measure, so you have very little - are you sure it was only astigmatism that cuased the medical failure?
Your varying prescription can be due to measurement error and/ or age - my eyesight didn't fully stabilise til I was about 22. Your optician will do a couple of tests to establish both the severity (CYL number) and orientation (AXIS number) of astigmatism - it's worth reading up on the tests to make sure that the optician does it properly and you give consistent answers. That will give you the best chance of a 'true' reading.
There's reasonable information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astigmatism to get you started on research.
Can't help much more I'm afraid - it's worth saying that as long as other aspects of your vision are OK, 0.25 astig will not prevent you from a civvie job...
Good Luck
There is nothing much you can do about astigmatism, any more than you can 'cure' short sight (the two often go together by the way). 0.25 dioptres is about the minimum a high street optician can measure, so you have very little - are you sure it was only astigmatism that cuased the medical failure?
Your varying prescription can be due to measurement error and/ or age - my eyesight didn't fully stabilise til I was about 22. Your optician will do a couple of tests to establish both the severity (CYL number) and orientation (AXIS number) of astigmatism - it's worth reading up on the tests to make sure that the optician does it properly and you give consistent answers. That will give you the best chance of a 'true' reading.
There's reasonable information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astigmatism to get you started on research.
Can't help much more I'm afraid - it's worth saying that as long as other aspects of your vision are OK, 0.25 astig will not prevent you from a civvie job...
Good Luck
Psychophysiological entity
This seems extraordinarily low figure to be rejected on. Keep the application on the boil while you try to find out more if you can.
You mention that it seems all over the place, but the big question is, does the angle change?
You mention that it seems all over the place, but the big question is, does the angle change?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: norwich
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not too sure what you mean by changing angle... The biggest reading ive had in one eye so far is -0.5. A test at christmas said I was zero in my left eye and -0.12 in my right, then 3 weeks later left eye was -0.25 and right eye -0.?!
Ive got nearly 6/4 vision in distance so it is purely the astigmatism thats screwing things up. Have another date for selection at cranwell in may so need to act fast if anyone knows how to help?!
Cheers
Ive got nearly 6/4 vision in distance so it is purely the astigmatism thats screwing things up. Have another date for selection at cranwell in may so need to act fast if anyone knows how to help?!
Cheers
Psychophysiological entity
I always have to say that I'm a (retired) pilot not a doctor, before going too far with advice, but your particular problem interests me, and there's a lot at stake.
There is just a small chance that your case is caused by a factor other than a God given distortion in the lense/cornea . The variability is the only clue that makes me think that it is worth mentioning the following at all.
By changing angle, I mean that the AXIS changes. They will give a figure like 080 for instance on a script. Now, if this changes quite often, you may be causing the astigmatism, by distorting your eye--by tension for example.
The old fashioned card with black spokes was good at giving a quick indication of astigmatism. Some spokes would be in sharper focus than others.
( by darker I guess they mean a more intense black with sharper edges. )
http://www.eyecareindia.com/subconte...37§ionid=6
Many years ago, my optician (and pal) use to complain that I was never the same twice. Some days there was no indication of astigmatism at all, and it is this similarity, at a not dissimilar age, that makes me think it's worth mentioning.
Once, when the 5 year medical was in London, I had walked down Kingsway against a bitterly cold wind. I could scarcely see the chart, let alone the bottom line. Total panic. The doctor was fine, he said your eyes are in spasm, you'll be okay in a few minutes. He let me warm up, and I was back to reading the bottom line. This was extreme and had a very specific cause of course.
I'm convinced that these spasms can cause all sorts of temporary problems...including slight de-focusing--of one type or another. I am also convinced that anything from cold, to tiredness, or even emotional stress, can be a factor. If you could self check wether, as the day wore on, the angle changed...in a similar pattern each day, this would be a good indication of the processes taking place. I mentioned recently how an LED looks to someone with astigmatism. A small point of light on a hi-fi for instance, may be all you need to get a rough idea. Any astigmatic distortion might look like a secondary lobe, at a given angle from the primary point of light. If this relative position changes with time, you will have a clue.
What to do. You have plenty of time to find out what is going on, but finding a good ophthalmologist must be the way to go. As suggested above, you need to be sure that the readings are accurate. Then you have to explain your concerns so that you get another check a couple of weeks later or so. In fact that would have to be the premise on which you make the appointment.
Should you find that the angle does change a bit, then you need to make careful notes on factors that may be causing the problem, tiredness after long drives, or a stressful day for example. If the error reduced significantly after say, several good nights of sleep, then there is a chance that if you could be relaxed enough for the eye-test, you would not have a problem.
There is just a small chance that your case is caused by a factor other than a God given distortion in the lense/cornea . The variability is the only clue that makes me think that it is worth mentioning the following at all.
By changing angle, I mean that the AXIS changes. They will give a figure like 080 for instance on a script. Now, if this changes quite often, you may be causing the astigmatism, by distorting your eye--by tension for example.
The old fashioned card with black spokes was good at giving a quick indication of astigmatism. Some spokes would be in sharper focus than others.
( by darker I guess they mean a more intense black with sharper edges. )
http://www.eyecareindia.com/subconte...37§ionid=6
Many years ago, my optician (and pal) use to complain that I was never the same twice. Some days there was no indication of astigmatism at all, and it is this similarity, at a not dissimilar age, that makes me think it's worth mentioning.
Once, when the 5 year medical was in London, I had walked down Kingsway against a bitterly cold wind. I could scarcely see the chart, let alone the bottom line. Total panic. The doctor was fine, he said your eyes are in spasm, you'll be okay in a few minutes. He let me warm up, and I was back to reading the bottom line. This was extreme and had a very specific cause of course.
I'm convinced that these spasms can cause all sorts of temporary problems...including slight de-focusing--of one type or another. I am also convinced that anything from cold, to tiredness, or even emotional stress, can be a factor. If you could self check wether, as the day wore on, the angle changed...in a similar pattern each day, this would be a good indication of the processes taking place. I mentioned recently how an LED looks to someone with astigmatism. A small point of light on a hi-fi for instance, may be all you need to get a rough idea. Any astigmatic distortion might look like a secondary lobe, at a given angle from the primary point of light. If this relative position changes with time, you will have a clue.
What to do. You have plenty of time to find out what is going on, but finding a good ophthalmologist must be the way to go. As suggested above, you need to be sure that the readings are accurate. Then you have to explain your concerns so that you get another check a couple of weeks later or so. In fact that would have to be the premise on which you make the appointment.
Should you find that the angle does change a bit, then you need to make careful notes on factors that may be causing the problem, tiredness after long drives, or a stressful day for example. If the error reduced significantly after say, several good nights of sleep, then there is a chance that if you could be relaxed enough for the eye-test, you would not have a problem.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: norwich
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wow, thank you for that reply!!
I do want to see an eye specialist to see what they say and was thinking of trying to get an appointment with a specialist RAF optician.
As a university student, sleep is certainly not something I get a great deal of, late nights are the norm. Im trying to get early nights now to see if that does change the astigmatism. I would not say that in my day to day life I am stressed, but the general situation with my eyes and how it is affecting my career is I suppose causing a high degree of tension, and it is something I think about everyday.
Im going to see a someone who teaches you how to relax your eyes (based on the Bates method) in a couple of weeks. Thougt that would be worth a try!
I am convinced by the varying degree of astigmatism having noticed no change in my day to day vision that it is environmental. The problem is Im not sure whether, even if I proved this to the RAF they would consider me for pilot. Do you think when I go for selection again I should take my prescriptions and explain to them how I dont think it stays at a constant angle?
If you know of any good specialists I would be very grateful! Thank you for your advice you have already offered me though!
I do want to see an eye specialist to see what they say and was thinking of trying to get an appointment with a specialist RAF optician.
As a university student, sleep is certainly not something I get a great deal of, late nights are the norm. Im trying to get early nights now to see if that does change the astigmatism. I would not say that in my day to day life I am stressed, but the general situation with my eyes and how it is affecting my career is I suppose causing a high degree of tension, and it is something I think about everyday.
Im going to see a someone who teaches you how to relax your eyes (based on the Bates method) in a couple of weeks. Thougt that would be worth a try!
I am convinced by the varying degree of astigmatism having noticed no change in my day to day vision that it is environmental. The problem is Im not sure whether, even if I proved this to the RAF they would consider me for pilot. Do you think when I go for selection again I should take my prescriptions and explain to them how I dont think it stays at a constant angle?
If you know of any good specialists I would be very grateful! Thank you for your advice you have already offered me though!
Intelligent Idiot
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cleethorpes, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just had my eyes done and the optician said that most people have astigmatism albeit slightly so dont know what to say.
He mentioned the figure of +.25 but i wasnt really concentrating on the fine detail. Thats what mine are at now at 47 years of age.
He mentioned the figure of +.25 but i wasnt really concentrating on the fine detail. Thats what mine are at now at 47 years of age.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To help can you answer these:
1. Clarify the precise reason for rejection; was it absolute level of astigmatism, fluctuation in astigmatism or some other reason.
2. Can you post the results of your Optometrist visits ie the result for SPH, CYL and AXIS each time
3. What prompted you to go to the Optometrist in the first place?
4. Why have you had more than one Optometrist test?
5. Do you have a link to visual requirements for the RAF?
6. Have you had a RAF medical? If so can you remember what eye tests were carried out?
1. Clarify the precise reason for rejection; was it absolute level of astigmatism, fluctuation in astigmatism or some other reason.
2. Can you post the results of your Optometrist visits ie the result for SPH, CYL and AXIS each time
3. What prompted you to go to the Optometrist in the first place?
4. Why have you had more than one Optometrist test?
5. Do you have a link to visual requirements for the RAF?
6. Have you had a RAF medical? If so can you remember what eye tests were carried out?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: norwich
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey 7120,
ok ill reply in list format as you asked!
Reason for rejection: Purely out of eye sight limits, both eyes have to be 0 0, no astigmatism in either eye.
Mr results at Cranwell in november 2005: I had -0.25 in both eyes in cylindrical axis, not spherical. This was the only problem.
Why Visit other opticians?: To get second opinions, see if cranwell got it wrong. Also having never had anything wrong with eyes until now, I wanted to see if my astigmatism changed.
Did my astigmatism change?: Yes!! November cranwell said -0.25 in both eyes (cyl). December I was told at spec savers I had 0 in left eye, and -0.25 in right eye . January I was told at spec savers again, different optician though, 0 in left eye, and -0.12 in right eye(all cyl again) February it had gone -0.25 left eye and -0.5 right eye. So as you can see no consistency at all!!!
Have I had an RAF medical?: Yep and failed it on eye sight, just cyl astigmatism. They tests they did seem the same as high street opticians. Place lenses in front of the eyes and see if dots on a wall are clearer or blurry with different refractive lenses.
I think that is all you asked!! Hope you can help me!
ok ill reply in list format as you asked!
Reason for rejection: Purely out of eye sight limits, both eyes have to be 0 0, no astigmatism in either eye.
Mr results at Cranwell in november 2005: I had -0.25 in both eyes in cylindrical axis, not spherical. This was the only problem.
Why Visit other opticians?: To get second opinions, see if cranwell got it wrong. Also having never had anything wrong with eyes until now, I wanted to see if my astigmatism changed.
Did my astigmatism change?: Yes!! November cranwell said -0.25 in both eyes (cyl). December I was told at spec savers I had 0 in left eye, and -0.25 in right eye . January I was told at spec savers again, different optician though, 0 in left eye, and -0.12 in right eye(all cyl again) February it had gone -0.25 left eye and -0.5 right eye. So as you can see no consistency at all!!!
Have I had an RAF medical?: Yep and failed it on eye sight, just cyl astigmatism. They tests they did seem the same as high street opticians. Place lenses in front of the eyes and see if dots on a wall are clearer or blurry with different refractive lenses.
I think that is all you asked!! Hope you can help me!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First some observations:
1. Astigmatism is highly prevalent in the normal population. Measured values are usually low and are no barrier to normal vision; your measured, uncorrected, vision of 6/4 is two lines better than normal.
2. These low levels of normal (physiological) astigmatism vary between tests and are subject to measurement (in)accuracy. The variations you quote are normal.
3.If all the Red Arrow pilots were checked by an Optometrist weekly for a month they would all have measureable astigmatism and it would fluctuate. Yet they all have (better than) normal functional vision.
4. I'm struggling with the RAF's "0 0, no astigmatism in either eye". This is non sensical, vide supra. The USAF limit for pilots is 1.5 dioptres of astigmatism - if I read the regulations correctly.
Advice:
1. Seek no more Optometrists observations - they'll just add to the confusion.
2. Get the RAF examiner to confirm - in writing - the result of your eye exam ie. that you have normal uncorrected vision (both eyes), normal depth perception (stereopsis), normal field of vision, and normal eye movements.
3. Get them to confirm that their sole reason for failing you is -0.25 cyl in each eye and ask for a copy of the visual regs.
4. If it turns out that all is well with point 2 and that written vis regs don't exist I think you have got a good chance of changing their mind.
Just come across visual standards for RAF entry dated oct 2004. Quoted maximum astigmatism for pilot is +0.75. Looks like your well inside - the sign is irrelevant
1. Astigmatism is highly prevalent in the normal population. Measured values are usually low and are no barrier to normal vision; your measured, uncorrected, vision of 6/4 is two lines better than normal.
2. These low levels of normal (physiological) astigmatism vary between tests and are subject to measurement (in)accuracy. The variations you quote are normal.
3.If all the Red Arrow pilots were checked by an Optometrist weekly for a month they would all have measureable astigmatism and it would fluctuate. Yet they all have (better than) normal functional vision.
4. I'm struggling with the RAF's "0 0, no astigmatism in either eye". This is non sensical, vide supra. The USAF limit for pilots is 1.5 dioptres of astigmatism - if I read the regulations correctly.
Advice:
1. Seek no more Optometrists observations - they'll just add to the confusion.
2. Get the RAF examiner to confirm - in writing - the result of your eye exam ie. that you have normal uncorrected vision (both eyes), normal depth perception (stereopsis), normal field of vision, and normal eye movements.
3. Get them to confirm that their sole reason for failing you is -0.25 cyl in each eye and ask for a copy of the visual regs.
4. If it turns out that all is well with point 2 and that written vis regs don't exist I think you have got a good chance of changing their mind.
Just come across visual standards for RAF entry dated oct 2004. Quoted maximum astigmatism for pilot is +0.75. Looks like your well inside - the sign is irrelevant
Last edited by 7120; 5th Mar 2006 at 14:57.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: norwich
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Again, thanks for the advice!
I have seen the visual standards for the RAF and they do quote +0.75 astigmatism but not -. Surely the '-' sign must mean something or otherwise I would have been fit??
So providing I can get this written confirmation from the RAF that the reason for rerjection was just because of the astigmatism, you think I could change their mind... do you mean I should tell them that it fluxtuates and so it is irrelevent? I hope your right but I dont quite understand how even if it is just atigmatism that made me unfit how I can chnage their mind.
I have considered applying to the navy and they quote +1.25 to -0.75 cylindrical allowance, so I would be fit for that wouldnt I?
Look forward to your reply!
I have seen the visual standards for the RAF and they do quote +0.75 astigmatism but not -. Surely the '-' sign must mean something or otherwise I would have been fit??
So providing I can get this written confirmation from the RAF that the reason for rerjection was just because of the astigmatism, you think I could change their mind... do you mean I should tell them that it fluxtuates and so it is irrelevent? I hope your right but I dont quite understand how even if it is just atigmatism that made me unfit how I can chnage their mind.
I have considered applying to the navy and they quote +1.25 to -0.75 cylindrical allowance, so I would be fit for that wouldnt I?
Look forward to your reply!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The sign, - or + is irrelevant. Even RAF "medical" examiners should grasp this one. You'r within published limits. The "fluctuation" in your astigmatic measurements are immaterial - for reasons stated.
Balls back in your court to get them to clarify their position. You may want to - selectively - show them my posts.
Good luck, PM me if you get stuck.
Balls back in your court to get them to clarify their position. You may want to - selectively - show them my posts.
Good luck, PM me if you get stuck.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: norwich
Age: 38
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Right well I will contact the RAF this week and get those results. Do you think I should question them about the plus minus sign and whether that makes a difference? I dont understand why that would have rejected me for pilot if that was the only reason.
Once I have these results, what do I do with them then, take them with me when I go for selection in May as nav and try change their mind then...or bring it to light now. Think now would be better! Or then ring the RAF up and question them on their reason for rejection?
Can I ask what your profession is?
Thank you for your help, very much appreciated.
Once I have these results, what do I do with them then, take them with me when I go for selection in May as nav and try change their mind then...or bring it to light now. Think now would be better! Or then ring the RAF up and question them on their reason for rejection?
Can I ask what your profession is?
Thank you for your help, very much appreciated.