VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)
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Hi,
Rather then starting another thread i`ll tag onto this one!
Can anyone tell me if the JAR Class 1 medical varies from authority to authority. I`m currently in Norway and wanting to take a medical here, but i`ve been told on the grapevine that the vision range is 3.0 diopters, whereas i`ve read it`s 5.00 diopters on the UK class 1.
I have tried in vain to search the Internet and contact the Norwegian CAA, but to no avail.
Cheers
Rather then starting another thread i`ll tag onto this one!
Can anyone tell me if the JAR Class 1 medical varies from authority to authority. I`m currently in Norway and wanting to take a medical here, but i`ve been told on the grapevine that the vision range is 3.0 diopters, whereas i`ve read it`s 5.00 diopters on the UK class 1.
I have tried in vain to search the Internet and contact the Norwegian CAA, but to no avail.
Cheers
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Originally Posted by Seagull61
Hi,
Rather then starting another thread i`ll tag onto this one!
Can anyone tell me if the JAR Class 1 medical varies from authority to authority. I`m currently in Norway and wanting to take a medical here, but i`ve been told on the grapevine that the vision range is 3.0 diopters, whereas i`ve read it`s 5.00 diopters on the UK class 1.
I have tried in vain to search the Internet and contact the Norwegian CAA, but to no avail.
Cheers
Rather then starting another thread i`ll tag onto this one!
Can anyone tell me if the JAR Class 1 medical varies from authority to authority. I`m currently in Norway and wanting to take a medical here, but i`ve been told on the grapevine that the vision range is 3.0 diopters, whereas i`ve read it`s 5.00 diopters on the UK class 1.
I have tried in vain to search the Internet and contact the Norwegian CAA, but to no avail.
Cheers
JAR standards are clear !! For myopia, the limit is - 5.00 diopters at admission. For renewal it becomes -8.00.
But interesting info, CAA can deliver a Class 1 ( with a little trick on the regulation) for people over -5.00 with a deviation with restriction to airplanes registered in UK only, at your first renewal the limit becomes - 8.00 and then your deviation is removed and with no restriction enabling you flying all european airplanes.
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Originally Posted by Flight my fire
Hello !
JAR standards are clear !! For myopia, the limit is - 5.00 diopters at admission. For renewal it becomes -8.00.
But interesting info, CAA can deliver a Class 1 ( with a little trick on the regulation) for people over -5.00 with a deviation with restriction to airplanes registered in UK only, at your first renewal the limit becomes - 8.00 and then your deviation is removed and with no restriction enabling you flying all european airplanes.
JAR standards are clear !! For myopia, the limit is - 5.00 diopters at admission. For renewal it becomes -8.00.
But interesting info, CAA can deliver a Class 1 ( with a little trick on the regulation) for people over -5.00 with a deviation with restriction to airplanes registered in UK only, at your first renewal the limit becomes - 8.00 and then your deviation is removed and with no restriction enabling you flying all european airplanes.
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That's right: the CAA can offer a deviation for >5 dioptres and then remove it after a year, but ONLY for glasses/contact lenses. It doesn't apply to laser/refractive surgery.
The new regulations coming in will increase the limit to -6.00 dioptres. Which is still not enough for me
The new regulations coming in will increase the limit to -6.00 dioptres. Which is still not enough for me
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Originally Posted by si_lud
That's right: the CAA can offer a deviation for >5 dioptres and then remove it after a year, but ONLY for glasses/contact lenses. It doesn't apply to laser/refractive surgery.
The new regulations coming in will increase the limit to -6.00 dioptres. Which is still not enough for me
The new regulations coming in will increase the limit to -6.00 dioptres. Which is still not enough for me
Do you know if the initial and renewal limits for astigmatism are going to change with the new regulations?
They are currently 2.0 dioptres (initial) and 5.0 dioptres (renewal).
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I don't know much about astigmatism. I can't remember where I found the new regulations, but it will definitely be in Appendix 13 to Subpart B of FCL-3. (If you have any idea where to find that!)
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For the benefit of anyone searching
I'm asnwering my own question here, so this post is really for the information and benefit of anyone searching on this topic.
I posed this question to a number of opthalmic surgeons: Does LASIK increase the rate of degeneration of the cells in the endothelium of a person who is showing some signs of endothelial changes that are not characteristic of Fuchs Dystrophy?
Here are the responses:
1)The long terms risks to the endothelium are unknown, but there is no evidence to suggest harm with meticulous surgery. The detemination as to the current health of your endothelium is based on specular microscopy. Make sure this test is performed before any ocular surgery is contemplated.
2)No one knows for sure?
3)If your career hangs in the balance, I would not chance it. There have been studies done that show that the LASIK does not harm the endothelium, but I would be careful.
4)There is evidence that LASIK can slightly accelerate the loss of cells. Very slight. If you have no corneal edema, AND your current cell count is acceptable (you should have this measured), I think LASIK is a viable option. Know that contact lenses also cause loss of endothelial cells, so if you are currently a contact lens wearer, you are already taking a risk...
5)You could have a endothelial cell count performed to resolve the question. The issue is not whether the endothelial cell would be reduced from the procedure, which I belive the risk is not high, but whether the endothelium is sufficient to allow you to have good healing and excellent vision. Endothelial dystrophy naturally progresses regardless as to whether you have the surgery or not. If it progresses, your vision will be compromised either way. If your cell count is borderline or low, do not have the procedure done.
6)I am not aware of any endothelial porblems from LASIK.
7)LASIK surgery should not have any impact on the endothelium, but I am curious if there is an underlying cause as to the changes that are present. You should certainly have your corneal thickness checked to make sure that is normal.
If you have a career where your visual acuity has an impact on your ability to work- you may not want to take the risk of elective LASIK surgery because there is always the risk of a complication, even if your endothelium is normal.
Jon Dishler, M.D.
8)Patients with Fuchs dystrophy should probably not have the surgery, because the results tend to be slightly unpredictable. Also, people with Fuchs dystrophy who had Lasik can have some addtional problems with the Fuchs in the future. But Lasik does not affect the health or degeneration of the endothelium. So other minor irregularities with the endothelium are probably not a risk.
So there you have it.
I'm going to have to get used to the idea that doctors do not always agree with each other, or have equivalent knowledge.
Originally Posted by AlexEvans
Hi. Sorry for the life story, but the details are necessary 
.
Does anyone have direct experience of having LASIK on an eye that is showing some signs of changes in the endothelium or that may be the early signs of Fuch's dystrophy? Or are you a medical professional with an opinion on this subject?
Here's the story:
I have a problem. I can't get a CAA class 1 medical because of the 4.0 diopters of astigmatism in my left eye exceeds the CAA limit (2.0 diopters).
I've been to aviation house for an 'eyes only' medical, which is the eyesight portion of the initial class 1 medical examination. Although advising against having LASIK (like they always will do as you know) they did confirm, in writing, that if I had successful LASIK to reduce the astigmatism to less than 2.0 diopters then they would issue a class 1 medical.
Unfortunately, they also spotted an abnormality in the endothelium (layer of cells at back of cornea) that does not affect me now and is unlikely to affect me in the future - but that may be affected by having LASIK. One eye doctor that I have seen (Ultralase, Tottenham Court Road, London) is of the opinion that LASIK can cause the rate of degeneration of the cells in the endothelium to accelerate and will not perform the LASIK procedure for that reason. This is also the opinion of Adrian Chorley, the optician at Gatwick AMD. Another eye doctor in Cambridge has advised me that there is no real risk of this happening and said he would be happy to perform the LASIK procedure, leaving me pretty confused. He also diagnosed that my eyes had 'subtle discreet anterior lesions that were not characteristic of Fuch's Dystrophy'.
So I'm faced with a tough decision. Do I have LASIK so that I can be issued a class 1 medical and run the risk of losing my medical (and cornea) permanently at some indeterminate time in the future due to endothelial dystrophy (as well as running the normal, more immediate risks of having LASIK such as corneal haze, infection, partial flap formation etc...) or do I give up on ever getting a JAA CPL/IR fATPL?
I know no-one can answer this question for me, but has anyone been in a similar situation or are you a medical professional with an opinion on this subject?
I believe that the FAA route of instructing in America and working in Africa is still open to me, but I'm considering giving up on my ambition to become a pilot if I will never be able to fly for a living in the UK.
At the moment, my only idea is to see another eye doctor for another opinion.
Any comments?
.Does anyone have direct experience of having LASIK on an eye that is showing some signs of changes in the endothelium or that may be the early signs of Fuch's dystrophy? Or are you a medical professional with an opinion on this subject?
Here's the story:
I have a problem. I can't get a CAA class 1 medical because of the 4.0 diopters of astigmatism in my left eye exceeds the CAA limit (2.0 diopters).
I've been to aviation house for an 'eyes only' medical, which is the eyesight portion of the initial class 1 medical examination. Although advising against having LASIK (like they always will do as you know) they did confirm, in writing, that if I had successful LASIK to reduce the astigmatism to less than 2.0 diopters then they would issue a class 1 medical.
Unfortunately, they also spotted an abnormality in the endothelium (layer of cells at back of cornea) that does not affect me now and is unlikely to affect me in the future - but that may be affected by having LASIK. One eye doctor that I have seen (Ultralase, Tottenham Court Road, London) is of the opinion that LASIK can cause the rate of degeneration of the cells in the endothelium to accelerate and will not perform the LASIK procedure for that reason. This is also the opinion of Adrian Chorley, the optician at Gatwick AMD. Another eye doctor in Cambridge has advised me that there is no real risk of this happening and said he would be happy to perform the LASIK procedure, leaving me pretty confused. He also diagnosed that my eyes had 'subtle discreet anterior lesions that were not characteristic of Fuch's Dystrophy'.
So I'm faced with a tough decision. Do I have LASIK so that I can be issued a class 1 medical and run the risk of losing my medical (and cornea) permanently at some indeterminate time in the future due to endothelial dystrophy (as well as running the normal, more immediate risks of having LASIK such as corneal haze, infection, partial flap formation etc...) or do I give up on ever getting a JAA CPL/IR fATPL?
I know no-one can answer this question for me, but has anyone been in a similar situation or are you a medical professional with an opinion on this subject?
I believe that the FAA route of instructing in America and working in Africa is still open to me, but I'm considering giving up on my ambition to become a pilot if I will never be able to fly for a living in the UK.
At the moment, my only idea is to see another eye doctor for another opinion.
Any comments?
Here are the responses:
1)The long terms risks to the endothelium are unknown, but there is no evidence to suggest harm with meticulous surgery. The detemination as to the current health of your endothelium is based on specular microscopy. Make sure this test is performed before any ocular surgery is contemplated.
2)No one knows for sure?
3)If your career hangs in the balance, I would not chance it. There have been studies done that show that the LASIK does not harm the endothelium, but I would be careful.
4)There is evidence that LASIK can slightly accelerate the loss of cells. Very slight. If you have no corneal edema, AND your current cell count is acceptable (you should have this measured), I think LASIK is a viable option. Know that contact lenses also cause loss of endothelial cells, so if you are currently a contact lens wearer, you are already taking a risk...
5)You could have a endothelial cell count performed to resolve the question. The issue is not whether the endothelial cell would be reduced from the procedure, which I belive the risk is not high, but whether the endothelium is sufficient to allow you to have good healing and excellent vision. Endothelial dystrophy naturally progresses regardless as to whether you have the surgery or not. If it progresses, your vision will be compromised either way. If your cell count is borderline or low, do not have the procedure done.
6)I am not aware of any endothelial porblems from LASIK.
7)LASIK surgery should not have any impact on the endothelium, but I am curious if there is an underlying cause as to the changes that are present. You should certainly have your corneal thickness checked to make sure that is normal.
If you have a career where your visual acuity has an impact on your ability to work- you may not want to take the risk of elective LASIK surgery because there is always the risk of a complication, even if your endothelium is normal.
Jon Dishler, M.D.
8)Patients with Fuchs dystrophy should probably not have the surgery, because the results tend to be slightly unpredictable. Also, people with Fuchs dystrophy who had Lasik can have some addtional problems with the Fuchs in the future. But Lasik does not affect the health or degeneration of the endothelium. So other minor irregularities with the endothelium are probably not a risk.
So there you have it.
I'm going to have to get used to the idea that doctors do not always agree with each other, or have equivalent knowledge.
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Originally Posted by AlexEvans
Do you know if the initial and renewal limits for astigmatism are going to change with the new regulations?
They are currently 2.0 dioptres (initial) and 5.0 dioptres (renewal).
They are currently 2.0 dioptres (initial) and 5.0 dioptres (renewal).
Hi Alex,
Where did you find the figure of 5.0 for renewal of Class 1 ( astigmatism )?
I thought is was 2 for initial, 3 for renewal.
Thanks
M
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oops my bad!
Sorry, I stand corrected.
I know the initial limit for astigmatism is 2.00 dioptres because it is in the JAR Class 1 Visual Standards document.
I don't have the renewal limits in writing, I got them from Gatwick AMD and yes you are quite right, I believe they said it was 3.00 dioptres not 5.00.
I remember them saying I'm just beyond renewal at -3.5. Perhaps if I was within the renewal limits they would have bent the rules?
I'm taking the plunge with LASIK soon, come what may.
I know the initial limit for astigmatism is 2.00 dioptres because it is in the JAR Class 1 Visual Standards document.
I don't have the renewal limits in writing, I got them from Gatwick AMD and yes you are quite right, I believe they said it was 3.00 dioptres not 5.00.
I remember them saying I'm just beyond renewal at -3.5. Perhaps if I was within the renewal limits they would have bent the rules?
I'm taking the plunge with LASIK soon, come what may.
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With a very high prescription of short sight
I'm 22 years old and fresh graduated from the Degree of Mechanical Engineering. I have been dreaming about becoming a pilot as my lifelong career since 13 years old. But the problem is i have a very high prescription of short sight which is:
L: -8.00 -1.5Astig
R: -5.25 -0.75Astig
Will i able to pass Class II and Class I? I can see 20/20 after corrected. But i know that visual acuity of at least 2/20 without optical aid. Do i still stand a chance to become a qualified pilot? I'm also thinking of LASIK if there will be a help to fullfil my ambition as i think that this is the only way i can do. I'm willing to try anything if there will be a help. Anyone is in the similar case with me or can give me some precious suggestion? What should i do for my first step? Many many thanks for helps.
L: -8.00 -1.5Astig
R: -5.25 -0.75Astig
Will i able to pass Class II and Class I? I can see 20/20 after corrected. But i know that visual acuity of at least 2/20 without optical aid. Do i still stand a chance to become a qualified pilot? I'm also thinking of LASIK if there will be a help to fullfil my ambition as i think that this is the only way i can do. I'm willing to try anything if there will be a help. Anyone is in the similar case with me or can give me some precious suggestion? What should i do for my first step? Many many thanks for helps.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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High shortsight prescription . .
I'm 22 years old and fresh graduated from the Degree of Mechanical Engineering. I know that I have to pass Class II or Class I medical before getting PPL as initial stage. But the problem is i have a very high prescription of short sight which is:
L: -8.00 -1.5Astig
R: -5.25 -0.75Astig
Will i able to pass Class II and Class I? I can see 20/20 after corrected. But i know that visual acuity of at least 2/20 without optical aid. Do i still stand a chance to become a qualified pilot? I'm also thinking of LASIK if there will be a help to fullfil my ambition as i think that this is the only way i can do. I'm willing to try anything if there will be a help. Anyone is in the similar case with me or can give me some precious suggestion? What should i do for my first step? Where to enquire for this kind of case? Many many thanks for helps.
L: -8.00 -1.5Astig
R: -5.25 -0.75Astig
Will i able to pass Class II and Class I? I can see 20/20 after corrected. But i know that visual acuity of at least 2/20 without optical aid. Do i still stand a chance to become a qualified pilot? I'm also thinking of LASIK if there will be a help to fullfil my ambition as i think that this is the only way i can do. I'm willing to try anything if there will be a help. Anyone is in the similar case with me or can give me some precious suggestion? What should i do for my first step? Where to enquire for this kind of case? Many many thanks for helps.
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Not quite sure how you can 'forget' that you've done another medical, especially since you failed it. If I were you I would tell the country you've passed in asap and just hope for the best.
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I should think it probably depends on the condition which caused the initial denial.
I believe there is the basic JAA medical requirements - but these along with most things can be made stricter by the member state...
Let us know the outcome anyhow.
I believe there is the basic JAA medical requirements - but these along with most things can be made stricter by the member state...
Let us know the outcome anyhow.
