VISION THREAD (other than colour vision)
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You're out of the woods then...
That's great, glad to hear that things have worked out for you. Please let us know how things go with your class 1 initial.
I'm about to have LASIK myself (on just one eye) for the same reason. It's a hell of a risk though - 1 in 40 chance of corneal haze, so if both eyes were being operated on, 1 in 20 chance of never seeing a class 1 medical certificate on eyesight grounds anyway.
Scary.
I'm about to have LASIK myself (on just one eye) for the same reason. It's a hell of a risk though - 1 in 40 chance of corneal haze, so if both eyes were being operated on, 1 in 20 chance of never seeing a class 1 medical certificate on eyesight grounds anyway.
Scary.
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I had a Zyoptix (a advanced form of Lasik) last year with 100% succsess. Had a Class 1 before with restrictions but they went out without remarks 3 weeks after the operation. 
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Eyes
Hey all, is it true that one must have 20,20 vision to be a pilot in the military? or anywhere for that matter? Could someone please explain the 20, 20 vision thing as well? Also could one get laser eye surgery to correct their vision if it wasn't 20,20 and if so would the forces allow you entry to become a pilot if you had it?
Thanks
Moved from colour blindness thread, as this post has nothing to do with colour blindness. BM
Thanks
Moved from colour blindness thread, as this post has nothing to do with colour blindness. BM
Last edited by Bad medicine; 3rd Apr 2006 at 21:39. Reason: Moved from colour blindness thread as not related
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I went to an optimologist, or optomologist I don't know. Thought they were opticians. Anyway, he checked my eyes obviously and they weren't perfect. Although I was getting them checked for the purposes of a pre CAA Class 1 medical check he said he got a lot of pilots in due to his location and that I'd be fine even for the RAF despite them not being dead on. Only £20 and there's bound to be someone near you who can do similar.
Not sure about the RAF's limits or their opinions on laser surgery. I hear the CAA aren't too keen on LASIK and the like so the RAF are bound to have some views. Bit vague but all I can muster I'm afraid.
G
Not sure about the RAF's limits or their opinions on laser surgery. I hear the CAA aren't too keen on LASIK and the like so the RAF are bound to have some views. Bit vague but all I can muster I'm afraid.
G
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20/20 is the same as 6/6. it's something to do with seeing a "size 6" letter at 6metres, or 20feet. I'm not sure on the "size 6" part, but i know the distance is 6metres or 20feet. There are guidelines on the CAA website, but i think 20/20 is the minimum, i wasn't sure myself, so i printed the webpage off, took it into the otpicians and she checked my sight against the guidelines and said i wasn't even close! I was so pleased.
You can get better than 20/20 vision, which is normal vision. You can have perfect vision which is i think 6/4, where you can see a "size 4" from 6metres, or you could see a "size 6" from a larger distance etc
You can get better than 20/20 vision, which is normal vision. You can have perfect vision which is i think 6/4, where you can see a "size 4" from 6metres, or you could see a "size 6" from a larger distance etc
Moderator
Vision (other than colour vision) merged thread
It seems that nearly every day there are questions relating to visual standards, and whether an individual meets them. On many occasions, these questions have been answered before. Over the next few days I'll try to consolidate these posts into a more user-friendly archive. Please look here first, and you may find your answer.
Cheers,
Bad Medicine
Cheers,
Bad Medicine
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LASIK and Class 1 medical
This may be a long post (and is one of my first!), so bear with me!
Just before starting my ATPL training I had Laser eye surgery on both eyes. With an initial requirement of -5.00 / +5.00 dioptres I was initially outside the JAA requirements, since my left eye was at -7.00, with a slight astigmatism. The UK CAA advise against LASIK for all sorts of reasons, but I went ahead and did it anyway, for two reasons: first of all, there was no way I was going to get a Class 1 if I didn't, and secondly, if I couldn't be a pilot, I would at least be able to dispense with contact lenses in everyday life!
The surgery went perfectly, leaving my with 6/4 in both eyes. The lower the second number, the better the vision, so 6/6 is "normal", and 6/60 is terrible. This is the European system, as it uses metres: the Americans use feet, which is why 6/6 = 20/20 and 6/60 = 20/200, in case you were wondering. My eyesight is now exceptional: I have no blurring, haze, haloes or night vision problems whatsoever. (Moorfields Eye Hospital, if you were interested!)
The UK CAA issued me with a Class 1 medical with a JAA deviation, which means I am allowed to fly all UK-registered aircraft, but would need to seek permission from other countries (mainly European - for example, the US FAA only stipulates 20/20 or better corrected or uncorrected, and is not worried at all about laser surgery).
For revalidation, the limits do indeed increase to -8.00 dioptres of myopia (short-sight), with the upper limit remaining at +5.00 for hypermetropia (long-sight). However, this does not apply to eyes corrected through surgery! Obtaining this tiny nugget of information involved an incredibly long trawl through CAA/JAA paperwork!
So, where does this leave me? Obviously, as the proud owner of a UK-issued fATPL I can fly any UK aircraft, but am limited to UK only: not an excellent prospect for any UK carrier who have some foreign aircraft. There have been rumours for years about the JAA limits being increased, due to many tests on lager surgery patients, but nothing has happened yet.
I have a solution, which I am currently pursuing. I am contacting the various European authorities for their permission to fly their aircraft, regardless of whether or not I ever will. Armed with letters from most of the European aviation authorities, whenever anyone queries my "restriction" on my licence, I can now point out that there is in fact no reason why it will restrict me whatsoever. The legal documentation may place a restriction, but none of the member states will exercise that restriction. I already have such letters from three authorities.
Why am I telling you this? If enough people act on this information, and prove that there is no need for such a restriction on laser surgery, perhaps the JAA will finally take note and bring the restriction in line with current corrective measures (e.g. glasses).
Here's hoping...
Just before starting my ATPL training I had Laser eye surgery on both eyes. With an initial requirement of -5.00 / +5.00 dioptres I was initially outside the JAA requirements, since my left eye was at -7.00, with a slight astigmatism. The UK CAA advise against LASIK for all sorts of reasons, but I went ahead and did it anyway, for two reasons: first of all, there was no way I was going to get a Class 1 if I didn't, and secondly, if I couldn't be a pilot, I would at least be able to dispense with contact lenses in everyday life!
The surgery went perfectly, leaving my with 6/4 in both eyes. The lower the second number, the better the vision, so 6/6 is "normal", and 6/60 is terrible. This is the European system, as it uses metres: the Americans use feet, which is why 6/6 = 20/20 and 6/60 = 20/200, in case you were wondering. My eyesight is now exceptional: I have no blurring, haze, haloes or night vision problems whatsoever. (Moorfields Eye Hospital, if you were interested!)
The UK CAA issued me with a Class 1 medical with a JAA deviation, which means I am allowed to fly all UK-registered aircraft, but would need to seek permission from other countries (mainly European - for example, the US FAA only stipulates 20/20 or better corrected or uncorrected, and is not worried at all about laser surgery).
For revalidation, the limits do indeed increase to -8.00 dioptres of myopia (short-sight), with the upper limit remaining at +5.00 for hypermetropia (long-sight). However, this does not apply to eyes corrected through surgery! Obtaining this tiny nugget of information involved an incredibly long trawl through CAA/JAA paperwork!
So, where does this leave me? Obviously, as the proud owner of a UK-issued fATPL I can fly any UK aircraft, but am limited to UK only: not an excellent prospect for any UK carrier who have some foreign aircraft. There have been rumours for years about the JAA limits being increased, due to many tests on lager surgery patients, but nothing has happened yet.
I have a solution, which I am currently pursuing. I am contacting the various European authorities for their permission to fly their aircraft, regardless of whether or not I ever will. Armed with letters from most of the European aviation authorities, whenever anyone queries my "restriction" on my licence, I can now point out that there is in fact no reason why it will restrict me whatsoever. The legal documentation may place a restriction, but none of the member states will exercise that restriction. I already have such letters from three authorities.
Why am I telling you this? If enough people act on this information, and prove that there is no need for such a restriction on laser surgery, perhaps the JAA will finally take note and bring the restriction in line with current corrective measures (e.g. glasses).
Here's hoping...
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Hi Si Lud and all of you !
Si Lud, reading you is interesting and thank you for sharing your feedback.
That's excellent if you succeded in getting a Class 1 after surgery with pre-operation refraction of -7.00. Good news. I'm at -5.75.
If i understood well you have a restriction on your license ?
Restriction for UK registered aircrafts only.
I'm amazed because there is an regulation trick the english use for aspiring pilots exceeding -5.00 of myopia. I was told that they accept to deliver a Class 1 certificate for one year just limited to UK registered aircrafts only but at the first renewal the applied limits become -8.00 ( as written in the standards ) and your medical becomes JAR completely and therefore your licence too even if delivered in UK, enabling you to find a job as a pilot anywhere in Europe or where JAA licenses are recognized. So this restriction as no reason to remain after the renewal.
It is just like for the medical waiver which removed until your CPL-IR licence is completed. Did you get a waiver for your Class 1 ?
Good luck. Happy flying.
Si Lud, reading you is interesting and thank you for sharing your feedback.
That's excellent if you succeded in getting a Class 1 after surgery with pre-operation refraction of -7.00. Good news. I'm at -5.75.
If i understood well you have a restriction on your license ?
Restriction for UK registered aircrafts only.
I'm amazed because there is an regulation trick the english use for aspiring pilots exceeding -5.00 of myopia. I was told that they accept to deliver a Class 1 certificate for one year just limited to UK registered aircrafts only but at the first renewal the applied limits become -8.00 ( as written in the standards ) and your medical becomes JAR completely and therefore your licence too even if delivered in UK, enabling you to find a job as a pilot anywhere in Europe or where JAA licenses are recognized. So this restriction as no reason to remain after the renewal.
It is just like for the medical waiver which removed until your CPL-IR licence is completed. Did you get a waiver for your Class 1 ?
Good luck. Happy flying.
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I think you're probably right regarding the waiver, but in my case I had laser surgery. As a result, it's treated differently by the JAA, and the revalidation limit remains at -5.00, which means that my temporary deviation remained as a permanent deviation.
Which is crazy, because my vision is much better than a lot of pilots I know, even if they are using glasses or contact lenses!
Which is crazy, because my vision is much better than a lot of pilots I know, even if they are using glasses or contact lenses!
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GIVE UP ON MY LIFELONG DREAM - Endothelial (Fuch's ?) Dystrophy and LASIK
Hi. Sorry for the life story, but the details are necessary .
Does anyone have direct experience of having LASIK on an eye that is showing some signs of changes in the endothelium or that may be the early signs of Fuch's dystrophy? Or are you a medical professional with an opinion on this subject?
Here's the story:
I have a problem. I can't get a CAA class 1 medical because of the 4.0 diopters of astigmatism in my left eye exceeds the CAA limit (2.0 diopters).
I've been to aviation house for an 'eyes only' medical, which is the eyesight portion of the initial class 1 medical examination. Although advising against having LASIK (like they always will do as you know) they did confirm, in writing, that if I had successful LASIK to reduce the astigmatism to less than 2.0 diopters then they would issue a class 1 medical.
Unfortunately, they also spotted an abnormality in the endothelium (layer of cells at back of cornea) that does not affect me now and is unlikely to affect me in the future - but that may be affected by having LASIK. One eye doctor that I have seen (Ultralase, Tottenham Court Road, London) is of the opinion that LASIK can cause the rate of degeneration of the cells in the endothelium to accelerate and will not perform the LASIK procedure for that reason. This is also the opinion of Adrian Chorley, the optician at Gatwick AMD. Another eye doctor in Cambridge has advised me that there is no real risk of this happening and said he would be happy to perform the LASIK procedure, leaving me pretty confused. He also diagnosed that my eyes had 'subtle discreet anterior lesions that were not characteristic of Fuch's Dystrophy'.
So I'm faced with a tough decision. Do I have LASIK so that I can be issued a class 1 medical and run the risk of losing my medical (and cornea) permanently at some indeterminate time in the future due to endothelial dystrophy (as well as running the normal, more immediate risks of having LASIK such as corneal haze, infection, partial flap formation etc...) or do I give up on ever getting a JAA CPL/IR fATPL?
I know no-one can answer this question for me, but has anyone been in a similar situation or are you a medical professional with an opinion on this subject?
I believe that the FAA route of instructing in America and working in Africa is still open to me, but I'm considering giving up on my ambition to become a pilot if I will never be able to fly for a living in the UK.
At the moment, my only idea is to see another eye doctor for another opinion.
Any comments?
.Does anyone have direct experience of having LASIK on an eye that is showing some signs of changes in the endothelium or that may be the early signs of Fuch's dystrophy? Or are you a medical professional with an opinion on this subject?
Here's the story:
I have a problem. I can't get a CAA class 1 medical because of the 4.0 diopters of astigmatism in my left eye exceeds the CAA limit (2.0 diopters).
I've been to aviation house for an 'eyes only' medical, which is the eyesight portion of the initial class 1 medical examination. Although advising against having LASIK (like they always will do as you know) they did confirm, in writing, that if I had successful LASIK to reduce the astigmatism to less than 2.0 diopters then they would issue a class 1 medical.
Unfortunately, they also spotted an abnormality in the endothelium (layer of cells at back of cornea) that does not affect me now and is unlikely to affect me in the future - but that may be affected by having LASIK. One eye doctor that I have seen (Ultralase, Tottenham Court Road, London) is of the opinion that LASIK can cause the rate of degeneration of the cells in the endothelium to accelerate and will not perform the LASIK procedure for that reason. This is also the opinion of Adrian Chorley, the optician at Gatwick AMD. Another eye doctor in Cambridge has advised me that there is no real risk of this happening and said he would be happy to perform the LASIK procedure, leaving me pretty confused. He also diagnosed that my eyes had 'subtle discreet anterior lesions that were not characteristic of Fuch's Dystrophy'.
So I'm faced with a tough decision. Do I have LASIK so that I can be issued a class 1 medical and run the risk of losing my medical (and cornea) permanently at some indeterminate time in the future due to endothelial dystrophy (as well as running the normal, more immediate risks of having LASIK such as corneal haze, infection, partial flap formation etc...) or do I give up on ever getting a JAA CPL/IR fATPL?
I know no-one can answer this question for me, but has anyone been in a similar situation or are you a medical professional with an opinion on this subject?
I believe that the FAA route of instructing in America and working in Africa is still open to me, but I'm considering giving up on my ambition to become a pilot if I will never be able to fly for a living in the UK.
At the moment, my only idea is to see another eye doctor for another opinion.
Any comments?
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Hi again !
Ok you seem to know a little more than me on the subject because you are concerned.
Yes I agree with you I don' t follow their logic as long you see very well now and better than some pilots flying with their glasses or contact lenses. Besides , they still allow ( even though they don't recommend it) until -5.00 as long post op vision is stable , and no bad effects appear.
But maybe with time they will remove your deviation. Anyway it is no a problem if you can fly that's what is important.
What is more worrying is your restriction to UK registered aircrafts. Normally if your licensed is delivered as a JAR license it allows you to fly anywhere. I don't understand why they restrict they normally have no reason to do it. Otherwise it's not a JAA license. It's CAA license.
Stupid for England who plays the game of Europe now for Flight Crew licenses. There is a discrimination.
Hope there is a solution to your problem.
I wiill search what you asked for, If I get anything I will answer you by PM.
Ok you seem to know a little more than me on the subject because you are concerned.
Yes I agree with you I don' t follow their logic as long you see very well now and better than some pilots flying with their glasses or contact lenses. Besides , they still allow ( even though they don't recommend it) until -5.00 as long post op vision is stable , and no bad effects appear.
But maybe with time they will remove your deviation. Anyway it is no a problem if you can fly that's what is important.
What is more worrying is your restriction to UK registered aircrafts. Normally if your licensed is delivered as a JAR license it allows you to fly anywhere. I don't understand why they restrict they normally have no reason to do it. Otherwise it's not a JAA license. It's CAA license.
Stupid for England who plays the game of Europe now for Flight Crew licenses. There is a discrimination.
Hope there is a solution to your problem.
I wiill search what you asked for, If I get anything I will answer you by PM.
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i read in here
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED...isual_Stds.pdf
not sure if it applies to astigmatism as well. But something tells me it does.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED...isual_Stds.pdf
the pre-operative refraction should not have been more than +/- 5.00 dioptres (applicants just outside this range should contact the CAA Medical Division for advice.)
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Hi there.
Alex if you read the medical text you will see that you are within admission standards for Classs 1. You can have an astigmatism until +5.00 of refraction.
You have +2.00 so you are inside.
The limit of +2.00 of astigmatism is for myopia with of component of astigmatism. In that case this part of astigmatism must not exceed +2.00.
But if its's just an astigmatism only, so the limit is +5.00.
There must not be a difference of 2.00 dioptres between each eye. Anisometropia.
For example if one eye is +2.00 the other one must not be +4.00.
Good luck.
Alex if you read the medical text you will see that you are within admission standards for Classs 1. You can have an astigmatism until +5.00 of refraction.
You have +2.00 so you are inside.
The limit of +2.00 of astigmatism is for myopia with of component of astigmatism. In that case this part of astigmatism must not exceed +2.00.
But if its's just an astigmatism only, so the limit is +5.00.
There must not be a difference of 2.00 dioptres between each eye. Anisometropia.
For example if one eye is +2.00 the other one must not be +4.00.
Good luck.
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Clutching at straws
I'm wondering if there are any other surgical methods that are allowed. I know that LASIK and Intra Ocular Lenses are 'allowed', meaning that Gatwick consider them on a case by case basis, but it is not clear if I'm suitable for either of those.
Does anyone know of any other plausable treatment that might be worth looking into? I remember seeing one on TV where they made slits in the eyeball to change its shape. Do the CAA/JAA allow that? I've also heard about hard contact lenses that change the shape of the eyeball, if only temporarily.
Does anyone know of any other plausable treatment that might be worth looking into? I remember seeing one on TV where they made slits in the eyeball to change its shape. Do the CAA/JAA allow that? I've also heard about hard contact lenses that change the shape of the eyeball, if only temporarily.
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Eye Limits.....sorry if this is going over old ground!
Hi,
Can anyone advice on if the limits below are acceptable for a class 1 - i`ve seen various limits but nothing concrete! I have short sightedness in both eyes and the following prescription
SPH CYL AXIS
Right -3.25 +0.75 70
Left -2.50 +0.25 15
Thanks
Can anyone advice on if the limits below are acceptable for a class 1 - i`ve seen various limits but nothing concrete! I have short sightedness in both eyes and the following prescription
SPH CYL AXIS
Right -3.25 +0.75 70
Left -2.50 +0.25 15
Thanks
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Yeah that looks fine
But don't take my word for it:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED...isual_Stds.pdf
You may find the vision - other than colour vision thread useful too.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED...isual_Stds.pdf
You may find the vision - other than colour vision thread useful too.
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non-binoccular vision?
whats the story with non-bioccular vision for pilots? i want to be a commercial pilot, get the CPL and ATPL but im not sure of the legislation with this one thing for the class 1 medical. I have 20/20 vision and see as well as anyone, but its the muscle balance thing thats off, but it never seems to make any difference. ive taken flying lessons and had no problem sight wise.... so anybody know whats the story? are there exemptions available? have there been non-binoccular vision pilots before?
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Class one eyesight requirements
I did my FAA private license last year and planned on getting a class 1 medical at the same time. Unfortunatly my eyesight fell below the requirements so I accepted a class 3 and decided to reapply for the class 1 after seeing my optician back in the UK.
As it turns out I have perfect vision in 1 eye but pretty poor in the other. Due to the difference in standard between the eyes, and the fact that I have lived with uncorrected sight for the past 20 years there is now nothing they can do to correct the problem so I cannot achieve 20-20.
Does anyone know if it is now possible for me to obtain a class 1 certificate?
As it turns out I have perfect vision in 1 eye but pretty poor in the other. Due to the difference in standard between the eyes, and the fact that I have lived with uncorrected sight for the past 20 years there is now nothing they can do to correct the problem so I cannot achieve 20-20.
Does anyone know if it is now possible for me to obtain a class 1 certificate?
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Originally Posted by magicembraers
whats the story with non-bioccular vision for pilots? i want to be a commercial pilot, get the CPL and ATPL but im not sure of the legislation with this one thing for the class 1 medical. I have 20/20 vision and see as well as anyone, but its the muscle balance thing thats off, but it never seems to make any difference. ive taken flying lessons and had no problem sight wise.... so anybody know whats the story? are there exemptions available? have there been non-binoccular vision pilots before?
Hi there !
I'm in the same situation as you beside a myopia of -5.75.
Not lucky. I'm currently looking for infos about it, and found a few ones, cases of pilots who succeded in flying commercially in North America and Canada with this problem.
Some with problems of esophoria, exophoria, amblyopia,strabismus , and strabismus operated in childhood and therefore a deficient depth perception. They fought for it and they won.
What about you ? Do you have a strabismus or that kind of thing, esophoria , exophoria, hyperphoria ?
Look at the standards to see your are within the prism diopter limits.