ICAO Level 4 AVIATION ENGLISH
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Appunto, la fonia inglese era stata creata un tempo per risolvere in modo chiaro e conciso le comunicazioni, anche per quei popoli che non hanno nenache il nostro alfabeto. Per la mia esperienza una corretta fonia inglese con i termini giusti al momento giusto risolve il 99% delle situazioni.
Per radio non devo discutere di filosofia della vita, meglio una comunicazione chiara con pochi termini che un inglese fluentissimo ma che rischia di risultare prollisso.
RP6
Per radio non devo discutere di filosofia della vita, meglio una comunicazione chiara con pochi termini che un inglese fluentissimo ma che rischia di risultare prollisso.
RP6
Join Date: Jun 2001
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This is a clear fraud and even a cheap one, everybody just go HERE and open the second document and then read point 2.1.3.5.
It's an official CAA NPA and it talks about english language schools accredited by the British Council, moreover if you take a look at the standard CAA renewal forms they talk about RTF examiners accepted by the authority (CAA in this case) and not about generic FAA/JAA instructors.
By the way a phone assessment does not guarantee you that the guy you are checking on the other side of the line is actually the licence holder!
Pathetic.....
It's an official CAA NPA and it talks about english language schools accredited by the British Council, moreover if you take a look at the standard CAA renewal forms they talk about RTF examiners accepted by the authority (CAA in this case) and not about generic FAA/JAA instructors.
By the way a phone assessment does not guarantee you that the guy you are checking on the other side of the line is actually the licence holder!
Pathetic.....
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Qui c'è più o meno tutto quello che si farà in Italia: imbocca al lupo a tutti...
ciao
http://www.enac-italia.it/documents/...quirements.htm
ciao
http://www.enac-italia.it/documents/...quirements.htm
Join Date: Jun 2001
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This fraud is however fascinating; so tell us ,ICAO english, how much would this phone assessment cost the pilots?How will they pay?What kind of certificate will they obtain?Who will sign them?Will they receive any receipt for their TAX refunds?
P.S. 1:a Skype conversation does not guarantee the guy you are talking to is actually who you think he is.
P.S. 2: being a JAA instructor does not automatically give you the power to be an assessing body unless you are appointed by the authority you will be assessing for. In fact instructors will have to be assessed themselves.
P.S. 3:
, for you non native italian speaker the above quote is an extract of the Italian CAA document relevant to the issue we are talkin' about that goes more or less like this: "the approval of the training & testing syllabus by the authority will authorize the organization to conduct language proficency training and checking".
Have you sent your training syllabus to the Italian CAA yet dear ICAO english?
P.S. 1:a Skype conversation does not guarantee the guy you are talking to is actually who you think he is.
P.S. 2: being a JAA instructor does not automatically give you the power to be an assessing body unless you are appointed by the authority you will be assessing for. In fact instructors will have to be assessed themselves.
P.S. 3:
La approvazione dei programmi presentati, autorizzerà
l’Organizzazione a impartire l’addestramento in materia di competenze linguistiche.
l’Organizzazione a impartire l’addestramento in materia di competenze linguistiche.
Have you sent your training syllabus to the Italian CAA yet dear ICAO english?
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Negli Uffici Enac periferici non sanno nulla di questo esame!!! come al solito..... Oltre quei moduli (per di più in uno c'è un errore) che ha postato Topper non si sa nulla, chi gia possiede la licenza che deve fare?? è coperto con il livello 4 sino a marzo 2011 se non sostiene questo esame?? Enac ma dove c sei???
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Italiana maniera
Chi ha detto che rilasciare il Level 4 proficiency endorsment d' ufficio è all' italiana maniera?
Tratto dalle JAR-FCL 1 pag.1-A-4:
Cosa significa?
Che se uno ha fatto l' esame di fonia in inglese distintamente dall' esame della licenza (quello che dopo ti rilasciano il certificato di radiotelefonia), ENAC o qualunque Authority può rilasciare il Level 4.
Tratto dalle JAR-FCL 1 pag.1-A-4:
B. Holders of licences prior to 5
March 2008:
March 2008:
Based on existing assessment
methods, the Authority may make a
language proficiency endorsement at
level 4 (operational level) for licence
holders with a radiotelephony operator
certificate in English and other
language, as appropriate.]methods, the Authority may make a
language proficiency endorsement at
level 4 (operational level) for licence
holders with a radiotelephony operator
certificate in English and other
Cosa significa?
Che se uno ha fatto l' esame di fonia in inglese distintamente dall' esame della licenza (quello che dopo ti rilasciano il certificato di radiotelefonia), ENAC o qualunque Authority può rilasciare il Level 4.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Hey PE,
just read the AOPA Italia bullettin, and found out that your company is in talks with AOPA in order to help italian GA pilots with this messy situation.
Unless you believe it's inappropriate to do this here, would you care to comment on what normal GA pilots should do, if they are not in a position to have the 3-years waiver that ENAC will be enforcing?
Case in point, I have my english radiotelephony exam done with the "old" ICAO license, and never have applied for a JAR license, so after 3/5/2008 technically I won't be allowed to fly abroad.
Is there any way for me to do this english exam anytime in the future? What kind of certificate will I receive, in order to prove that I am level 4-5-6 in aviation english?
Many thanks and ciao, Luca
just read the AOPA Italia bullettin, and found out that your company is in talks with AOPA in order to help italian GA pilots with this messy situation.
Unless you believe it's inappropriate to do this here, would you care to comment on what normal GA pilots should do, if they are not in a position to have the 3-years waiver that ENAC will be enforcing?
Case in point, I have my english radiotelephony exam done with the "old" ICAO license, and never have applied for a JAR license, so after 3/5/2008 technically I won't be allowed to fly abroad.
Is there any way for me to do this english exam anytime in the future? What kind of certificate will I receive, in order to prove that I am level 4-5-6 in aviation english?
Many thanks and ciao, Luca
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La mia non era una domanda.
Voglio informare tutti i piloti che leggono che hanno conseguito la radiotelefonia in inglese facendo l' esame a roma e quindi possiedono il certificato di radiotelefonista che possono stare tranquilli per tre anni.
Compilate il modulo andate dalla vostra dca, e uscite col level 4 endorsment.
Nel frattempo Enac sta studiando il sistema per i futuri esami.
Voglio informare tutti i piloti che leggono che hanno conseguito la radiotelefonia in inglese facendo l' esame a roma e quindi possiedono il certificato di radiotelefonista che possono stare tranquilli per tre anni.
Compilate il modulo andate dalla vostra dca, e uscite col level 4 endorsment.
Nel frattempo Enac sta studiando il sistema per i futuri esami.
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lucaberta
vedrai che enac, anche per chi ha ancora la licenza icao, rilascierà il level 4 endorsment.
abbi fede, vai alla tua dca col modula compilato, la licenza ma specialmente il certificato di radiotelefonista
abbi fede, vai alla tua dca col modula compilato, la licenza ma specialmente il certificato di radiotelefonista
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vedrai che enac, anche per chi ha ancora la licenza icao, rilascierà il level 4 endorsment.
abbi fede, vai alla tua dca col modula compilato, la licenza ma specialmente il certificato di radiotelefonista
abbi fede, vai alla tua dca col modula compilato, la licenza ma specialmente il certificato di radiotelefonista
Intanto non ho mai avuto un certificato di radiotelefonista, in quanto la mia fonia in inglese la feci ai tempi del PPL (ahime' nel 1991) contestualmente all'esame pratico, e quindi la ebbi direttamente trascritta sulla licenza. Quando qualche anno dopo feci il CPL ICAO, anche qui ENAC trascrisse la fonia in inglese sulla mia nuova licenza.
Qualcuno mi ha detto che dovrei comunque avere un certificato di fonia, ma non so proprio dove e come poter fare questa verifica...
Poi pero' non ho piu' tenuto la licenza in corso di validita', dato che in Italia volo solo VDS e in USA con le mie licenze FAA. Quindi il mio CPL/ME/IR ICAO italiano e' da tempo scaduto. Non pero' la fonia in inglese, dato che mi risulta che l'esame di fonia una volta fatto non scada mai.
E dunque come mi devo comportare? Vado da ENAC con le licenze scadute e loro che fanno? Come minimo mi ridono in faccia, temo...
Preferirei fare questo benedetto esame somewhere, in modo che la volta che vado in giro per l'Europa con il mio mezzo VDS e qualche zelante buromane mi chiedesse l'english proficiency ICAO, abbia qualcosa da mostrargli... eppoi visto che sono certamente un level 6, la faccio una volta e me la tolgo dai piedi per sempre.
Finira' che me freghero' e andro' lo stesso in giro per l'Europa...
Ciao, Luca
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Thanks for your answer Mel!
as I said to Volorovescio, my only gotcha is with the fact that my italian ICAO licenses are long expired, but yet my english radiotelephony shouldn't be expired since, as far as I know, that exam does not expire and is not really linked to my expired flight license.
I'll probably first need to dig deeper in whether I can get a hold of the famous "cartoncino azzurro" that should be lying in some ENAC office, provided that they had produced it for me when I did my PPL or CPL more than a dozen years ago...
Thanks again, and ciao!
Luca
But this doesn't interest you, you've already got your "grace period" because you've got your English R/T op license.
I'll probably first need to dig deeper in whether I can get a hold of the famous "cartoncino azzurro" that should be lying in some ENAC office, provided that they had produced it for me when I did my PPL or CPL more than a dozen years ago...
Thanks again, and ciao!
Luca
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Ah, se è cosi cambia. Certo!
Io ho parlato ieri con ENAC e mi hanno detto che il Levele 4 lo danno a chi ha il certificato di radiotelefonista e non a chi ha fatto la fonia in volo come te.
Temo che lo devi fare per forza l' esame.
Sicuramente se vuoi il Level 6: l' ho chiesto anche per me.
Ma in Italia nn sono ancora pronti con gli esami e quindi danno il 4 subito poi il 5 e il 6 in futuro quando avranno scelto chi e come farà gli esami.
Io ho parlato ieri con ENAC e mi hanno detto che il Levele 4 lo danno a chi ha il certificato di radiotelefonista e non a chi ha fatto la fonia in volo come te.
Temo che lo devi fare per forza l' esame.
Sicuramente se vuoi il Level 6: l' ho chiesto anche per me.
Ma in Italia nn sono ancora pronti con gli esami e quindi danno il 4 subito poi il 5 e il 6 in futuro quando avranno scelto chi e come farà gli esami.
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Thanks guys, I will then probably just sit idle and see how things roll moving forward.
I don't care about getting a JAA license and a piece of paper fron ENAC, since I dont' even have a valid license issued by them, as VDS licenses are managed by Aero Club d'Italia and not ENAC.
If anything, I will do it this ICAO proficiency check under FAA regulations, and I've just found out that it should be pretty straightforward to do it "the american way", with a test administered over the phone from a qualified company:
http://www.ordinate.com/versant/busi...n/overview.jsp
They have some sample material for the aviation english test online already, and it seems pretty darn easy to me...
Thanks all, and best of luck with your aviation english!
Cirs, Luca
I don't care about getting a JAA license and a piece of paper fron ENAC, since I dont' even have a valid license issued by them, as VDS licenses are managed by Aero Club d'Italia and not ENAC.
If anything, I will do it this ICAO proficiency check under FAA regulations, and I've just found out that it should be pretty straightforward to do it "the american way", with a test administered over the phone from a qualified company:
http://www.ordinate.com/versant/busi...n/overview.jsp
They have some sample material for the aviation english test online already, and it seems pretty darn easy to me...
Thanks all, and best of luck with your aviation english!
Cirs, Luca
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ONRA, well spotted! That was my level 3-2-1 greeting to those who read thoroughly my messages...
PE, thanks for the tips on the VAET test. I was just browsing the web pages, and will definitely take an eval test should I ever decide to do it. It appears to me that things are not crystal clear also in FAA-land...
So how come these VAT test documents I found on the web have such blatant errors like "propellors" instead of "propellers"... for cryin' out loud!
http://www.ordinate.com/samples/test...tification.pdf
And what is a "propellor jet" after all... me wonders... maybe I'm not level 6 after all!
Ciao, Luca
PE, thanks for the tips on the VAET test. I was just browsing the web pages, and will definitely take an eval test should I ever decide to do it. It appears to me that things are not crystal clear also in FAA-land...
So how come these VAT test documents I found on the web have such blatant errors like "propellors" instead of "propellers"... for cryin' out loud!
http://www.ordinate.com/samples/test...tification.pdf
And what is a "propellor jet" after all... me wonders... maybe I'm not level 6 after all!
Ciao, Luca
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So, if I have understood correctly:
who has an ICAO PPL/A issued by ENAC with English R/T endorsement will automatically be considered Level 4 until 2011.
After that a test will be required.
Do you have to take the test if English is your native tongue?
who has an ICAO PPL/A issued by ENAC with English R/T endorsement will automatically be considered Level 4 until 2011.
After that a test will be required.
Do you have to take the test if English is your native tongue?
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Oh well, so the aviation english test is an olde english olde aviation test after all...
Oh well... meglio che mi metta a scrivere in italiano allora, chissa' che poi non mi intercettino per poi usare queste prove contro di me...
Cirs meit --L
Oh well... meglio che mi metta a scrivere in italiano allora, chissa' che poi non mi intercettino per poi usare queste prove contro di me...
Cirs meit --L