PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Interviews, jobs & sponsorship (https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship-104/)
-   -   New Thomas Cook cadet scheme (https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/413668-new-thomas-cook-cadet-scheme.html)

hazholmes 21st Jul 2010 06:07

Scotthooker, I see what you mean. I think there will be lots of people who will struggle to finance this, myself included. Will having a job offer at the end of the course carry any weight with the bank I wonder?

clanger32 21st Jul 2010 07:27

Guys, really, FFS.
A few ABSOLUTE truths for you all.

- No matter WHAT route of training you take, right now there are virtually no jobs in the Market place AT ALL for newly qualified pilots. It does APPEAR to be getting a little better, but nothing so firm as to hang your hat on.

- The ONLY options that have been generally open for the last two years are ryanair and easy. You WILL pay around 30k for your the rating with either.

- It is NOT as simple to GET one of these jobs as simply "hello mr O'Leary, here's my cheque, when do I start?"

- Even if you go moduar, you should budget for this route, Inc T/R, costing you at least - AT LEAST - 80k overall.

- If you self sponsor, the most likely outcome is that you will spend virtually as MUCH money as you would on his scheme and then spend probably at least half a year unemployed. At LEAST.

I really, really cannot stress loudly, longly, highly, or big enough that the major benefit of this scheme is that you have the job at the end. Yes, there are some other benefits - financial and paid TR etc, but you absolutely positively MUST understand tha getting a job if you self sponsor is THE hardest bit.

Stop :mad: whinging about the fact that TCX haven't offered to pay the whole thing for you, or that FTE aren't going to secure the loan for you and MAKE it happen for yourselves. Shit, or get off the pot.

Sorry if this is harsh, but some of you lot are bloody clueless about the harsh reality of what will happen if you 'just' self sponsor. Jeez. Seriously there are hundreds of us already qualfied who would LOVE the opportunity tcx are offering and (some of) you lot are whinging that you don't like the colour of the training AC. Get. A. Grip.

For those who are saying " it's my life ambition, but I don't have anything to secure the loan on" well I do feel your pain, but ever thought of saving for it? If it's really that much of a dream then EARN it, dont just expect someone else to make I possible for you.
Honestly this whole thread is becoming unbelievable.
Rant off. Best of luck to those who recognise just what a good opportunity this is, and that it's the job that's the real prize.

FANS 21st Jul 2010 07:42

My main point was this: All in all despite the benefits of such a scheme the big matter is the 81k

historyftw - that's it in a nutshell. That's why the competition for such schemes is actually very very limited given the 81k hurdle.

I personally would never go self-sponsored integrated as the thought of doing a CPL/IR test with 82k hanging over my head does not appeal, and I actually think modular + RYR TR is a better option for me, as I'm paying chunks at a time.

It's a really disappointingly organised scheme in the end, but there will be those for whom 81k is small change and so this is perfect.

A word of warning - anyone thinking of securing loans on parents properties should come to the conclusion that they can not afford it. You do not risk a family home that's taken 25 years to pay for on on a blue book.

smangnall 21st Jul 2010 08:45

Any more news?
Has anyone else received an invite for assessment? Spoke to TCX on Monday and they told me FTE were sending TCX the list of candidates and that assessment starts tomorrow! I live in Vietnam and it will take me 2 days to get home (not to mention 900!) so am getting anxious now. Just wondering if all the people whose online accounts said 'skills assessment scheduled' had received invites or was that a red herring?

Cheers guys for any info you care to share, and good luck to those who have been invited for assessment :ok:


PGSingularity 21st Jul 2010 09:52

If you log on to your candidate profile - check the date on the "skills assessment scheduled" bit. If it is around this week, so since when they have been telling people, should give you an indication.

Hope that helps


clanger32 21st Jul 2010 09:53

I do actually understand what you're saying, but stop and think for a moment - you don't want to fly the CPL or IR test with 82k debt hanging? Totally understandable. But you'd rather do it having spent 50k and with no job to go to, knowing that the chances of GETTING a job are slim (to say the least!)?

For you - clearly this isn't the right opportunity. You've stated that and I respect that. Clearly you have your head screwed on. Just do NOT overestimate how easy it is to get into Ryanair. It really, really isn't that easy. I speak as someone who failed to do so.

FWIW [clearly] I disagree that the scheme is disappointingly organised. For my money, anyone who is planning to undertake professional pilot training would be an absolute fool to not look at this....the cost is a nasty headline fact, agreed. Indeed the financial requirements will prohibit some otherwise excellent candidates from applying (although I get REALLY fed up of people claiming "it's my dream, but I don't have a property to secure a loan on - it's not fair!" but not actually being prepared to go work and earn the money to fund it!) but the truth is - in actuality, the fact that it leads to a job almost certainly (for instance TCX honoured their cadet commitments in 2008/09 when the market was at it's worst -so you should have some confidence) makes the OVERALL package probably cheaper than the route to a flying job through any other method. The headline cost, doesn't always reveal the full picture.

Spike001 21st Jul 2010 10:16

"Even if you go moduar, you should budget for this route, Inc T/R, costing you at least - AT LEAST - 80k overall."

Clanger, does your figure of 80k overall for a modular course "include" TR costs?

I'm nearly completing my training and IF I incur any debt, it will be minimised due to keeping any loan at bay for the last 10 years and my debt would be around half or a just a quarter of that 80k (incl. TR and depending what a/c I choose to fly and how I get my TR). The overall total modular cost for me (excl. a TR) would be around 40-50k. If your including the cost of a TR within this cost, then your figure is more accurate.

I do know a few other ways in without paying for a TR, so don't get too immersed in having to "pay for TR" - it's simply not the case, if you research hard enough, time it right and find the right deal.

One should not just aim for the airlines either, there are other jobs, just as much fun and with a resonable salary and I'm not necessarily just talking about the big jets.

clanger32 21st Jul 2010 10:53

Yep, my budgetary figure of 80k would include a TR at [the likes of] FR or EZY. It also includes some aspect of living cost - Essentially what I'm trying to get across is that Mod will likely cost you the thick end of fifty grand normally (although I know some people have done it for substantially less - hence I'm talking about a "budget for" figure, not a "it will cost you..." figure). Once you have added a TR on top, you get to the rough figure of 80k

There are obviously other factors, prevailing exchange rate, not going for jet job, getting a job through someone you know etc....however, the comparison here was with the TCX scheme therefore it seems fair to compare the TCX scheme with the mose likely sources of getting to a similar first jet job. This purely on the basis that whilst I'm sure lots of new pilots HAVE got jobs in the last two years without paying TR, the number will be tiny, comparitively.

I was also very careful to specify cost - not debt. You don't HAVE to get into debt to train at all, but whether you do or do not take debt, the COST remains the same.

FANS 21st Jul 2010 10:59

Clanger - personally, I would rather take 50k, paying as I go, not being stuck at an integrated FTO if things don't work out for any reason and not having the stress of big debts (which you should never under-estimate).

I understand that the chances of a job are very low at the moment, and that's another reason why modular suits me as I can slow down/speed up accordingly.

I agree that going into flybe and then TCX is a fantastic career platform, but the 81k would just be a millstone round my neck. Horses for courses. The point I'm concerned with is that people need to realise that this is real money and on their salaries you can not take out anything like a full loan.

Equally, I still don't understand why this scheme is offered in the current climate. TCX could interview the 1000s of current fATPL holders and have a start date in 18 months/2 years very easily. My natural sceptism suggests that this is just another money making scheme.

Spike001 21st Jul 2010 11:01

(Clanger) Exactly :ok: We're on the same playing field now.

Essentially the total cost for FTE is a typical "modular route + TR costs".

Best way in is being bonded in my opinion, guranteed job and slightly less pay but easier on the pocket in the long run, depending how you want to look at it.

What ever happens people, just don't give up with your training and do what's best for your circumstances. :ok:

If I decided to continue with a scheme like this, my main concern is IF you don't perform to the airline's standard/requirement and your told you are no longer are being supported by the airline, then your paying for something that could have been done cheaper by another way and you have to deal with the consequences.

TC84AS 21st Jul 2010 14:26

Is it just me, or why are we not hearing anything from TCX?

Seems the debate here predominantly is about the financing, but what is there to finance if no one is offered the deal?

Interviews are to start in just two(!) days... as they will be interviewing until the 27th, I expect quite a number of candidates to be called in. What's going on?

historyftw 21st Jul 2010 15:02

I know no one has been offered a place yet so the finance discussion may be a bit redundant. However, no point in putting in the effort if financing is impossible. For some it may require extensive travel to the interviews so they need to know its worth it.

From what people have been saying here I gather this to be an impossible scenario(s).

a.) Recent graduate, 22years of age. No savings realistically. Parents still paying mortgage without a spare 50k lying around to support said graduate with finance other than to secure any loan on house.

b.) 32year old saved up for long time to pay for CPL but is now too old to realistically form a career to make the investment worthwhile

c.) Graduate with rich parents support him with cash investment

So out of all them person C is the only one who can really look to go on/ benefit this scheme?

Person A being most applicable to myself - does he stand a chance at all? Say he gets on the TC scheme, his parents put up the security for the finance can he get a loan for the full amount with this security plus the help to gain security from TC and then pay it back when in work.

greyb33 21st Jul 2010 15:12

I got the call Iam down for tuesday 27th and I got called yesterday. From what the lady said on the phone all the days were full as I had orginally been down for saturday morning but cudn't make it and asked to change, and the only day she could offer me was wednesday.


clanger32 21st Jul 2010 16:01

I agree with your comments about ascertaining whether there's any milage in even applying first (i.e. CAN you get the finance).

However, your scenarios are incorrect, because they're too general - they assume for example that every recent graduate has parents who haven't got the equity to secure a loan, that every graduate has no savings.
I caveat this right up front by saying that I'm not making ANY comment on the feasibility, achievability or sanity of borrowing the money, just that this is the reality

1/ There is no requirement to secure lending against a parent/guardian/random-stranger-in-the-street's property, for that property to be mortgage free. The requirement is that it holds sufficient equity to cover the loan [to the lenders satisfaction]. If the parents have EQUITY in their home AND are prepared to "risk" that, then you have a loan route available.

2/ Assuming your profile age is correct, then you should be aware that you don't actually turn to dust once past 30....believe me - 35, 30, even 25 years is more than enough time to have a VERY reasonable [second] career. Whether TCX would give you a shot at 30/35/40 years of age is a different question, but I can tell you their last intake of cadets included a 30+ year old for certain.

3/ Yes, there is always "child of multimillionaire". However, having experienced one of those whilst I was training. I can pretty much tell you that "those" characters MAY have other personality flaws that would preclude them. Either way, I would strongly suggest the proportion of (3)'s to the proportion of (1)'s will be vastly in favour of the 1's.

I re-iterate, if you can't afford the course now, if you can't GET the loan, then go and bloody work for it, rather than crying that you're not eligible for the loan now (NOT aimed at you historyftw, btw - a very general comment).
And if you can't make the requirements right now, then why focus on how unfair it is? It's unfair that I will never get a chance to fly Concorde. It's unfair that people my age got fully sponsored training from a variety of operators, where I had to pay. It's unfair that I'm devilishly good looking, with a wicked sense of humour and other people look like John Prescott (alright, I made that last bit up....)

The point is LIFE is unfair.

If Aviation is where you want to be, it's up to YOU to make it happen....either by moving yourself from a (1) situation to a (2) and hoping any scheme such as this is still available when you're ready to start, or by self sponsoring yourself and starting when you can. TCX will not be short of applicants for this scheme, rest assured of that, so if you aren't eligible now, that really is hard luck -but don't whinge about it, DO something about it.

historyftw 21st Jul 2010 16:17

Clanger -

I can't emphasise just how much I agree with you. I'm sorry if what I've said before comes across as I do not agree. Most of what I've said is rhetorical or deliberately playing devils advocate to spark a response/debate. And like you say your comments are not aimed at me - just in general.

I have tried not to whinge about it as I am not a whingey person I'm sure theres some cliche about it but in general I just "keep calm and carry on".

Also - agree very much with the child of a millionaire comment...god knows I've come across a few in my lifetime. In fairness there are several who are as down to earth as anyone but not all the time!

Any who - good response. Thank you.

hollingworthp 21st Jul 2010 16:29

No loan guarantee by airlines ....
I was on one of these 'mentored' schemes starting back in 2007.

The original plan was for the airline to provide 100% loan guarantees, throwing the net wide open to those of the best ability (rather than filtering those of ability out who were unable to secure the funding).

However, a short time into the application process, it became clear the guarantor element would not be provided.

The reason being, the bank required the company to deposit several million pounds in cash for the lifetime of the loans. :eek:

Given the current financial situation - I would rule out any guaranteed training loans in the future :{

Rutele 21st Jul 2010 18:29

Anyone going for testing on the 27th from the continent (NL,BE,DE,LU)?? Would gladly drive together. PM me!!!!

sicky 21st Jul 2010 21:02


Not everybody is able to walk into a job which enables them to put that sort of money aside

Being realistic isn't always a moan. From what you've said, i take it you have your licence and are searching for your first job? i understand the frustrations in this but think yourself lucky to have been able to raise the finance required and that you now have the licence to your name. Other people working just as hard, if not harder just can't save those vast sums up...now THAT is frustrating, especially when the jobs start appearing again and you can't even apply.

Anyway, i think we should get this back on topic please everybody!! :ok:

richw626 22nd Jul 2010 09:23

Hi all,

Just a quick question; I am through to stage three with my testing tomorrow so I am staying in Peterborough tonight. Is there anyone else there tonight who wants to say hi?



Thomas1984 22nd Jul 2010 11:43

yes I think it is over because assessments will begin tomorrow. I agree with you on the fact they can inform us whatever their choices.

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:45.

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.