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-   -   New Thomas Cook cadet scheme (https://www.pprune.org/interviews-jobs-sponsorship/413668-new-thomas-cook-cadet-scheme.html)

Flaperon75 29th Apr 2010 09:30

New Thomas Cook cadet scheme
 
The following info was added to ppjn yesterday. I'd heard about it from the inside - it sounds like a great scheme and will no doubt attract a lot of applicants!! Keep checking the Thomas Cook website for more info:

New ab-inito cadet scheme with FTE Jerez and in conjuction with Flybe will launch in May 2010 with the first batch of pilots starting in October 2010. Concludes with Dash 8 type rating and 2 years with Flybe then onto the Airbus or Boeing with Thomas Cook.

Good luck!:ok:

FlyingTinCans 29th Apr 2010 10:00

This has been a rumour around crew rooms at Flybe for a while now, although it sounds like a great oppertunity for the new guys, it does seem a little 'pie-in-the-sky'.
I mean there are hundreds of Dash8 pilots already at flybe with 1000's + hrs, why would Thomas Cook take on the less experianced guys?

Good luck to all if its true, but I would wait for something more official than PPJN before getting your hopes up!

Flaperon75 29th Apr 2010 10:21

No - it is happening. As I said I've heard it from the inside....

I think this is Thomas Cook putting something back into the new pilot community and good on 'em. It's nice to see a ray of sunshine in what has generally been a gloomy time for aspiring airline pilots.

mad_jock 29th Apr 2010 10:43


I mean there are hundreds of Dash8 pilots already at flybe with 1000's + hrs, why would Thomas Cook take on the less experianced guys?
Because they don't want flybe pilots they want TC pilots and they want their FO's to have more than 200 hours when they get let loose with the big hardware.

Its reasonably common these days with companys in the middle east sending their fresh FO's over to the UK to get 1000 hours plus TP experence before putting them onto Jets.


To my Knowledge

Eastern Airways
Logan

Have done this service for other carriers which is another reason why low houred pilots can't get a look in because they get 10 plus FO's every 6-12 months for free including training. And they don't moan all the time about upgrading. How many FO's are currently waiting for upgrade in flybe?

Now are they doing a proper license or a MPL?

MIKECR 29th Apr 2010 10:53

Quite true...the likes of the Brunei cadets at Eastern and Logie were commonplace. 2 or 3 years TP experience in the UK and then back home to fly heavy metal of some description.

FlyingTinCans 29th Apr 2010 11:03


Because they don't want flybe pilots they want TC pilots...
Well why send them to Flybe then!??? If the cadets are gonna fly for Flybe, in Flybe uniform, on a Flybe Aircraft, to Flybe SOP's, they better expect them to be Flybe pilots after 2 years!


they want their FO's to have more than 200 hours when they get let loose with the big hardware.


Exactly my point, why take a pilot who is Flybe TP rated, with 2 years experiance, which will translate to around 1200 hrs. When there are 100+ pilots who are Flybe TP rated with 4 or more years experiance and 3000hrs+ ?


Its reasonably common these days with companys in the middle east...


Because in the Middle East they dont have any large 'Feeder' airines, in Europe and the UK we dont have that problem.

Ive been wrong before, and I hope I am as there needs to be some movement in this industry soon!

mad_jock 29th Apr 2010 11:24

Cause they don't want you.

They want to choose there own pilots and control thier training from the word go. And part of that training is flying a TP for Flybe as an FO they don't want LHS to RHS CRM issues. They just want to get the pilot up to speed with approaches and landings in a CAT enviroment then move them on to something heavier.

It could very well be that 5-6 years worth of pilots are stepped over. With no chance of coming away from turboprops and regionals.

And I wouldn't mind betting there will be some word of mouth deals going on so the larger jet operators don't screw all the TP operators up again like when easy jet started hoovering up the market. Which basically screwed 3-4 companys for 2-3 years by stripping there TP Captains sometimes with notice being handed in on the day they had completed line check. Bonds didn't mean a thing guys were doing 500 hours and then legging it. Training deptments couldn't keep up with the numbers leaving.

FlyingTinCans 29th Apr 2010 12:01


Cause they don't want you.
Ha, well im glad you feel important enough to decide who they do and do not want. :ok: But so you can further make judgments about someone you know absolutly nothing about, Ill let you know I have no intrest in going to TC, so if this scheme is correct or not I dont care. This is not a personal vendetta for me.


Training deptments couldn't keep up with the numbers leaving.


Spare me the History lesson, I was there, ive worked in Airline Training!

Im just trying to give balance to the rumours of employment that are flung around on this forum, the scheme that has been posted on PPJN just doesnt add up!

For Instance: for a frozen ATPL guy, a DHC8 TR would bond you for 3years,
for an MPL guy, the TR will bond you for 5years!

If Flybe are gonna give people type ratings, they expect to make the money back from you.... 2years is not enough!

And the only sensible comment mad_jock made was that TP operaters are sick of dishing out training and getting nothing in return,
Flybe have a history of struggling to keep FO's after 3 years and in turn New Captains, this scheme as its being advertised on PPJN would give no benefit to Flybe.

BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES 29th Apr 2010 12:16

Heard this in the BHX crew room a a couple of days ago. Cadets are going to be 'owned' by TC. They will do a CPL/IR with a JOC on the end to flybe sop's. Then a DHC8 TR and two years online with BE before,as said, going on to TC's Boeings or Busses. They will be able to gain valuble experience with BE in the commercial aviation enviroment. Lots of sectors, hence TO/LDGs whilst experiencing the complex environment around us, such as a busy London TMA. The opportunity to transition from a seneca to a DHC8 which is very forgiving, and gain better handlling skills is better than going straight to a B757 or A320 and bending it in PIK or or PAU on base trg. As i am led to believe from someone who will be spending time with the cadets, they will be paid by TC even though flying for BE. Would'nt know about bonds though, but if its true that TC 'own' them, then it would probably be a TC bond signed very early on to stop them upping and leaving. Sounds like a good idea for everyone to me.

Fair_Weather_Flyer 29th Apr 2010 12:21

But are we talking about just a limited number of cadets? 10 per year or in that kind of ballpark or is it on a larger scale?

Groundloop 29th Apr 2010 12:27

They will be insufferable when they are doing their 2 years with Flybe - "We'll be moving to bigger and better things soon. We'll wave when we go over the top of you in our shiny jet!""

mad_jock 29th Apr 2010 12:34

If it works like the other schemes flybe will be getting payed for all training including TR and someone else pays the FO while flying the line.

Rather a good deal for flybe me thinks, and if they also get a promise that they won't take any current flybe employees such as yourself in the training deptment its a magic deal.

Sorry the reason why you got the replys you did is because you come across as a pissed off FO looking for upgrade or a move to something heavy.

Change the "you" to "current flybe pilots"

Flaperon75 29th Apr 2010 12:56

I think it will be quite low numbers taken on to this scheme; 6-10 per year, and yes, TCX will be paying salaries during time at Flybe

Boing7117 29th Apr 2010 13:01


The opportunity to transition from a seneca to a DHC8 which is very forgiving
That made me chuckle no end.

Never flown a dash then....?

FlyingTinCans 29th Apr 2010 13:12

Smooth Airperator I cant see this being the only way TCX will employ future FO's, the fact that the majority of Intergrated/Mentored schemes are either pulled all together, added too or people chopped from is because most airlines have no idea the pilot numbers they will need in 2years, let alone 4years which is the time scale these pilots will be on-line with TCX.

I still cant see this being a benefit to Flybe unless the time on-line with BE is longer, Flybe dont generally lose FO's until year 3/4, also having TCX FO's taking flying time from other BE FO's and therefore increasing the time it takes to get experiance for a Command will only compound the situation Flybe currently, and always has faced.

mad_jock I am a p*ssed off FO but not for this reason! :ok:

I would have loved to have flown a forgiving Dash, would have saved me a lot of ASR's!! :}

BUGS/BEARINGS/BOXES 29th Apr 2010 13:17


Never flown a dash then....?
....yes and somthing bigger and shinier before that in and out of fithy sand ridden or jugle infested shit holes! Ok in context, what would appear to be a greaser on the flare will end up feeling like you just arrived from outer orbit and set off another large scale earthquake......but if you apply the wrong technique and comedown hard....the dash shrugs it off and happily carries on......the 757???? no chance. Probably get a sesma print-out an a phone call from the safety dept 2 seonds after shut down! :}

Chief Brody 29th Apr 2010 13:23

Bugs Bearing Boxes,

Not sure Id agree that the D8 is as forgiving as you infer - I went seneca then dash and had more than one sleepless night during my first 6 months. As an aircraft its an ergonomic pain in the arse with such beauties as its alt capture arming button, the gravity gear extension checklist from hell as well as its tendancy to try and flip you on its back when doing efatos in the sim. Despite those 'isms' and many others I think back on it as very worthwhile from a learning curve pov.

...I also smile at the ships library being under your crew bag storage area for 'easy' access when you need those pesky Prestwick alternate plates going into Glasgow on a stormy night - another bombardier gem.

Compare that to the A320 with its extremely benign efato characteristics - no need for aileron input just rudder and backstick, a gravity gear extension procedure that can be completed in 30 seconds and the fact that george can be engaged at 100ft compared to the D8s 1000ft and I know where Id rather spend my working day.

Have many good memories flying the egg whisk though......gear getting stuck halfway through the retraction sequence, hyper sensitive proximity sensors on the doors causing cautions at least once a month, rudder trim runaway, high fuel temp readings, random autopilot approach mode failure - quite the baptism of fire.

763 jock 29th Apr 2010 14:09

Quote:

"0 hours is way too soon to do selection when there are so many highly experienced and highly achieving unemployed pilots at all levels of the career ladder. When times are good it's fantastic, but at the moment I'd like to see are more standardised method of recruitment and progression"

So how do you square that statement when TCX have just hired 16 F/O's on the Boeing fleet that are ex TOM, GS etc? That's on top of the crews that are on part year contracts that are returning from last year.

Try getting some facts right before you sound off about "giving something back".

copywrite33 29th Apr 2010 14:27

Anyone know when and where the applications will open up/be?

Fair_Weather_Flyer 29th Apr 2010 14:47


Personally it is good to see a pair of airlines avoiding the ever more common, pay for type rating or pay for line training (although TC have done this before).
Call me cynical but this all seems to be a bit too good to be true for potential cadets. Maybe, TCX are showing forsight and predicting an upturn in demand for FO's in three years or so. Perhaps because of this they are willing to encourage cadets to join on sensible terms or.........maybe they will offer some vile deal that entails premium priced training, long term pay reductions with big interest added and that is only if at the end of training they decide to send you to Flybe. What is in it for TCX?

beamer 29th Apr 2010 16:48

Never mind - Daddy will pay...................

767200ER 29th Apr 2010 17:14

and so the armchair thread hijackers come to life... somebody PLEASE change the record!

CABUS 29th Apr 2010 17:43

Yeah it's going ahead,TCX will be looking for eight cadets who will complete the initial course with Jerez, move to BE then if they are good enough continue to TCX. I believe it's a modern twist to the old JMC/Cali sponsorship.

Best of luck chaps

kingofkabul 29th Apr 2010 19:23

Another advantage for TCX for this scheme is that they will have full access to all the cadets' sim check reports and any other information about their performance held on file. That way they could see it as mitigating the risk of taking on an unknown quantity, and can reject pilots if performance is not up to their standards.

I must admit I find it strange that TCX would pay for an employee to work for another airline!

An advantage for Flybe, other than the fact it is free labour, is that they can place the pilots at the less favourable bases and will not have to care as much about looking after the employees as staff retention will not be an issue.

It will be interesting to see if they come up with a similar funding arrangement as is used by CTC and that I believe TCX have used in the past (whereby repayments for training loans come out of salary before tax).

Adios 1st May 2010 21:07

Kingofkabul,

They'd be daft not use use the pretax salary deductions. The tax break the cadets get from this means the pay doesn't need to be high enough to fund the taxes and both the company and the cadet get to save 11% for National Insurance contributions on that segment of salary. The company also gets to reclaim the VAT, so the training bill is significantly lower than it otherwise could be, though the VAT reclamation is not dependent on using a pre-tax salary deduction for cadet repayments.

What is strange about this is that Flybe use post tax salary deductions on their own schemes, but if TC owns these cadets, they can do it their way.

oxotower 2nd May 2010 09:12

Sounds like a really great scheme.

Busbar 2nd May 2010 12:29

I think you will find that this scheme is nothing new. Before TCX and My Travel merged, they both had similar schemes years ago. When My Travel was called Airtours International, they had this scheme running with British Regional/Manx Airlines. Cadets would complete their ATPL training and then join BRAL on the ATP for two years before going on to Airtours on the A320. I had several friends that did this. It worked very well.

Any form of sponsorship scheme on offer to wannabe Pilots is a rare thing these days. I see it as a positive move for the young guys and girls looking to get into aviation. Good luck to all those that apply :ok:

oxotower 2nd May 2010 12:34

Interesting

flyhiigh 4th May 2010 13:41

When does it start?
 
When will it be able to apply and how? Does anyone know? And does anyone know about the requirements?

Good day everyone!

Kiltie 4th May 2010 13:50

beamer

This scheme is for new starts in aviation. You've had your day, leave them to theirs.

bucket_and_spade 4th May 2010 20:38

flyhiigh,

Be patient - the scheme and it's details haven't been made public yet! Rest assured this thread will explode once they have :)

B&S

Finals19 4th May 2010 21:55

Oh dear...

This is unfortunate if true - there are still guys sitting in the original Flybe hold pool (before the FTE / Sponsored cadet seperate pool was established) that haven't moved for a couple of years. These were the original guys who were modular and picked from a select few schools around the UK.

Do I sense another EZY hold pool scenario where these chaps get left behind? Seems a possibility :sad:

unductedfan 5th May 2010 00:05

Hi,

Does anyone know if, or indeed when, flybe will begin recruiting low hour first officers again? Be it from their hold pools or at best the general populous?

Thanks!

Stu_88 5th May 2010 17:14

Actually, our 757's at TCX are hardcore, solid aircraft. Airbus's are what you wanna watch out for . . . .


Sorry if you think this is a bit out of the blue, just replying to a comment made earlier on the forum but can't seem to work out how to "quote" someone

manxcat 6th May 2010 12:16


When My Travel was called Airtours International, they had this scheme running with British Regional/Manx Airlines. Cadets would complete their ATPL training and then join BRAL on the ATP for two years before going on to Airtours on the A320.
My only regret back in 95 was that I didn't have a PPL so couldn't apply for the scheme. I seem to remember it worked well but only if the cadet had the right attitude towards learning the trade during their 'apprenticeship' on the ATP.

Also I've got to agree with Stu 88. The 757 was a solid machine - sturdy, modern enough but it still felt like a real aeroplane. Ahhh...I'd still give my right arm to fly one (although it'd probably result in my losing my Class 1).

If and when the scheme comes to life people could do a lot worse. Two good airlines with great aircraft with an opportunity to learn the craft of airmanship and some commercial savvy before being let loose on heavier metal. In the current economic climate it's a no brainer.

Let's hope it's the start of things to come.

antes56 6th May 2010 13:28

Are there any news about the starting of taking application for this cadet??

thanks:ok:

cyn nickel 6th May 2010 14:06

It's fascinating that we are still considering the re-mortgaging of parent's homes as "sponsorship" by the wonderfully magnanimous and fiscally cunning airlines. REAL sponsorship entails a wee bit of risk and investment by the airline, and a then virtually guaranteed loyalty and commitment by the recipients. Back in the "when we "days of real airlines with Flight Ops and Flight Taining Departments led by REAL pilots and not KPI MBAs, selection was the key....the right cadet! A good Cadet made a good Second Officer made a good First Officer made a good Commander made a good etc....! From Cadet to Chief Pilot. Quality, not the ability to pay was the key. Selection based on suitability and merit, not bank balance.

(reaches for umbrella!)

Stu_88 6th May 2010 21:00

^ I agree with cyn nickel

Might as well go through your own self funded course. However, the airlines do tend t guarentee you a job, and as we all know job security is paramount in this day and age

Thomas Cook aren't a bad company to work for either . . . .

Put1992 6th May 2010 21:40


Selection based on suitability and merit, not bank balance.
So you're telling me they will be selecting on candidates willingness to pay as much money as possible?

I appreciate your points, but at the end of the day, there are hundreds out there taking loans out on self sponsored courses with no definate sniff of a job at the end. If you're going to do it, whats the problem with doing it on a course mentored by an airline, with an actual chance of a job at the end? Candidates are selected by aptitude and potential, the airlines doing these schemes have it in their best interests, and the empowerment to do so.

Put.

aviator001 8th May 2010 20:50

hi guys..
 
when is the competition opening for the scheme in 2010? has anyine got a link to the page, tks.
Av..:ok:


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