BA DEP A320

[thisishomebrand]

BA website
https://jobs.ba.com/jobs/vacancy/new...3/description/

£18k for the type rating required

Good luck to all

[A320LGW]

I have first time CPL and ME/IR passes but had to repeat 1 ATPL subject ... anyone know if that's acceptable? I only see to have to have passed the 14 exams

[DonTrumpet2020]

Wow are they seriously charging more than 4 times what Ryanair is for a type rating �� ?

[thisishomebrand]

From the PDF linked at the bottom of the job description:
- An average ATPL Ground School score of 85% and above passed at the first attempt

You can always apply and see what happens.

[A320LGW]

Originally Posted by thisishomebrand

From the PDF linked at the bottom of the job description:
- An average ATPL Ground School score of 85% and above passed at the first attempt

You can always apply and see what happens.

Averaged 92% but 1 retake still ... I guess the game is over before it even started

[DonTrumpet2020]

£18k is scandalous, and that’s not fake news?

If if you can avoid it, do not pay for type ratings.

[clvf88]

Originally Posted by A320LGW

Averaged 92% but 1 retake still ... I guess the game is over before it even started

Its really not. I remember thinking my average was the most important thing in the world; I have no idea what it even was anymore. I know lots of guys from flight school with numerous fails who are flying all over the world for some great companies. It may preclude you from the odd role, but in general it has little impact; certainly beyond your first job.

So don't let it get you down! Good luck!

[ManUtd1999]

First the sponsored cadet programme was canned, now they're charging for type ratings.I bet not many people predicted a day when the type rating at Ryanair would be 3x cheaper than at BA.......

I'm surprised there's anyone left in the recruitment team, I would have thought most would have walked by now to avoid having their own reputation tarnished by this madness. To emphasise, this is an airline who just this week announced 2.6 billion pounds profits. Investing in 100 new pilots type ratings would cost (much) less than 0.1% of those profits, but it would appear that any sense of social responsibility has now been long forgotten.

Another sad day for aviation....

[MaverickPrime]

BA has went down the drain in many ways from an employees point of few.

[Stocious]

BA has went down the drain in many ways from an employees point of few.

The recruitment team have worked very hard for years against very strict recruitment/cost policy, so that they can open up recruitment from different paths, including low houred modular pilots like yourself, and people still moan. Yes, a type-rating cost isn't ideal but it's a means to a pretty good career if you can stand it. How much is paying for your own ME/IR training these days with no job at the end of it? The recruitment team didn't want it, but this is the best they can get in present climate. They're still working on other recruitment paths as well.

I'm surprised there's anyone left in the recruitment team, I would have thought most would have walked by now to avoid having their own reputation tarnished by this madness. To emphasise, this is an airline who just this week announced 2.6 billion pounds profits. Investing in 100 new pilots type ratings would cost (much) less than 0.1% of those profits, but it would appear that any sense of social responsibility has now been long forgotten.

Another sad day for aviation....

Have a word with yourself. A career at BA is now open to thousands of fATPL holders when it previously wasn't - hardly a sad day for aviation.
The recruitment team are working hard to open up these avenues, including cadet schemes. The appetite is there, it's a case of getting approval from on high which is the current difficulty at BA.

[V737]

Your GCSE’s certificates including Math’s, English and Science (excluding General studies and Critical Thinking) grade C and above plus proof you have 112 UCAS points according to the 2017 UCAS point system or equivalent. For international academic comparisons, see: naric.org.uk

Can anyone explain me a bit more about this requierement? I am not really sure what it is...

[ManUtd1999]

Yes, a type-rating cost isn't ideal but it's a means to a pretty good career if you can stand it.

I would go a bit further than "isn't ideal". In most industries paying thousands of pounds for your own training is unheard of. BA hire experienced non-rated DEP's and have internal fleet transfers all the time and of course don't charge for those. Singling out 200-hr cadets is simply a money making scheme, taking advantage just because they can get away with it and other airlines do the same.

Originally Posted by Stocious

The recruitment team are working hard to open up these avenues, including cadet schemes. The appetite is there, it's a case of getting approval from on high which is the current difficulty at BA.

To be clear, I'm not blaming the recruitment team. In my (very limited) conversations with them a few years back they seemed to genuinley care. I imagine they're trying their best and with good intentions. But at some point you have to take a stand, you can't simultaneously represent something (ie BA recruitment) whilst denying all responsibiltiy for the negative parts. Yes you can argue they're trying to change things but on this and previous evidence (the 100,000+ MPL etc) things are getting worse not better. Hence my thoughts that some might sooner resign.

At the end of the day I'm sure they will get plenty of applicants and it's great opportunity for those who get in. It's good that BA is open to modular cadets again. Trying to defend the morality of the scheme though, regardless of how many internal battles are going on, is a non-starter IMO.

[Stocious]

The choice is the simple - have this avenue with the Type Rating charge, or not have it at all. Which would you prefer?

How does allowing modular CPL holders the chance to join BA mean 'things are getting worse?"

[thisishomebrand]

Originally Posted by Stocious

How much is paying for your own ME/IR training these days with no job at the end of it?

The reason people are paying for training with no job guaranteed is because airlines are no longer funding the cost of training for pilots. People training are putting their life savings on the line to train and then an airline can't even show a bit of faith in the people they are hiring to pay for them to get trained on their fleet of aircraft? I know this isn't unique to BA, but its just a bit galling in the context of IAG reporting massive profits (although coming from a corporate background I can see the difficultly faced in getting investment from those high up in the business).

You also have to admit, a bonded or funded scheme would attract better talent because there is now an additional barrier to people applying.

[A320LGW]

Originally Posted by clvf88

Its really not. I remember thinking my average was the most important thing in the world; I have no idea what it even was anymore. I know lots of guys from flight school with numerous fails who are flying all over the world for some great companies. It may preclude you from the odd role, but in general it has little impact; certainly beyond your first job.

So don't let it get you down! Good luck!

I appreciate the optimism. It's frustrating because i know for sure that many FPP cadets had even more than 1 ATPL retake and many more again even had to retake CPL and ME/IR skills tests. They are now enjoying successful careers as BA pilots and it hasn't hindered them in that regard, yet for some reason BA are not even making the smallest of concessions for those that maybe just had a bad day in the exam room ... i can understand if someone had 4 or 5 retakes because that's indicative of something more serious, but just 1 retake though is more about something going wrong on that particular day alone

[Stocious]

The reason people are paying for training with no job guaranteed is because airlines are no longer funding the cost of training for pilots. People training are putting their life savings on the line to train and then an airline can't even show a bit of faith in the people they are hiring to pay for them to get trained on their fleet of aircraft? I know this isn't unique to BA, but its just a bit galling in the context of IAG reporting massive profits (although coming from a corporate background I can see the difficultly faced in getting investment from those high up in the business).

You also have to admit, a bonded or funded scheme would attract better talent because there is now an additional barrier to people applying.

Of course it would. If BA offers its staff an inflation only pay deal, funded by 'productivity' in these times of record profit, I suspect the chances of a funded scheme are remote!

[MaverickPrime]

Stocious, whilst I very much welcome the fact that BA have opened the door to all of us wannabes; having to pay for a TR is as insulting as the 2.7% pay rise BA have offered their pilots with the backdrop of record profits.

Incidently, do you happen to know what folks who are successful through this scheme are likely to earn? I would very much hope to be starting on the same pay as an experienced DEP after having paid for my rating.

I wouldn’t be able to submit an application to BA as I can’t afford the £18k. I will however submit an application to Ryanair, if I’m successful, they will charge me a €5k bond and will pay me £75k in my second year on a 5/4 roster. How many years would I have to be at BA to have that sort of control over my roster?

I absolutely do not pin the downsides of the BA scheme on the recruitment team. I pin it on Alex Cruz and the other greedy muppets at the top.

[Stocious]

You'll be on SSP (self sponsored pilot) pay, which is more than FPP pay but less than DEP pay, as you won't have the experience for DEP pay. If you want the actual figures, PM me.

I'm not sure 5/4 counts as control, but I'm five years in, didn't take an early command nor went LH as soon as I could. I sit high on my relative fleet and get pretty much the perfect roster every month with long weekends off, 2 sector daylight day trips, and I'm not even close to 700hrs for the year. If my fancy takes it, I'm senior enough for any LH fleet or an LGW command.

If a RYR cadet gets £75k a year at PP2 then good on them, but don't be fooled into thinking it's because it's out of the generosity of their hearts. The bond is there for a reason - to stop people leaving early to other operators!

[ManUtd1999]

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of this scheme, for those thinking of applying make sure you're clear about what happens to your 18k in the (unlikely) event you don't meet the required standard. Are you employed before you start? Is there a money back clause if it all goes wrong and if not, are you willing to take that risk? It's a lot of money to invest without guarantees.

BA is not the only option either, all the airlines below hire modular pilots with either a free rating or a bond with no upfront payment. Paying for a type rating doesn't have to be the norm.

Jet2
Flybe
BA Cityflyer
Aer Lingus
Loganair
TCX / IAGO

In short, do your homework

[Dracarys]

Originally Posted by Stocious

...and people still moan.

"Still moan"? You make it sound like BA is struggling financially but still choosing to offer the best route into the industry for aspiring young pilots. Yes, a step in the right direction this latest development is. But a step in the right direction from what? Certainly not from something industry-leading. Airlines making much less money than BA are offering far superior recruitment options. One only has to look at the insulting pay offer from BA to realise that Cruz isn't interested in investing in people. Insincere emails thanking me for my hard work over the summer don't pay my mortgage. It's not a dig at the recruitment team, incidentally, who I know work tirelessly (themselves under-resourced) and want to offer excellent opportunities. I have nothing but respect and admiration for their tenacity in a climate of cost cutting at all costs. But you can hardly blame people for being more than slightly disappointed by what's on offer (especially those who still don't have a spare £18k lying around).