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Eurowings Europe F/O

Old 29th Dec 2016, 09:21
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 356
As a beginner with low hours, we have so much to chose from he dirk?

If you make your first 500-1000 hrs on type the market will look a lot better.
Besides once you are in EW more negotiations will take place for T&C's with Union Back up.
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Old 29th Dec 2016, 09:58
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: N/A
Age: 39
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Is it really possible to join the company without speaking german ?
ludosky350 is offline  
Old 30th Dec 2016, 08:07
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Age: 31
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They prefer to take pilots that can speak German at least at level B2!

For you that went on their selection, it would be a great to hear your experience.

Thank you!
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Old 30th Dec 2016, 20:12
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Germany
Posts: 19
Hi,

Does anyone have Infos about the screening for FO? Is the announced LOFT part for CPT and Accelerated Command FO's only or will everyone needs to so this. Thanks for info, greetings.
germandude is offline  
Old 3rd Jan 2017, 05:23
  #25 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Europe
Age: 30
Posts: 85
Hi guys! Who is preparing the DLR for the 19th January?? Test results during preparation??

All the best!
Fieldins is offline  
Old 10th Jan 2017, 20:50
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 7
forget about wasting money with this Eurowings selection

Hi there,
regarding Eurowings Europe I can not recommend anyone to go there, unless you just finished flight school and really need this type rating or flying experience.
Expect the selection process as very "selective", you have to spend a lot of money and travel 3 times to different places and the chance to pass all this selection events is very low if you don`t prepare all this things very very intensively!!
Even with A320 experience, you will find it extrem difficult to pass the second stage, the SIM!! The reason: You must fly the Airbus like a Cessna, it`s complete Single Pilot operation in raw data and you will have to knew all about Lido charts since you must use them. There is no auto pilot.....
There is another pseudo PNF Captain supposed to help you but if they don`t like you he rather disturbs you more than being of any help. Pay attention for their "ATC" instructions, they try to disturb you by this while you have to do something else. For me it was clear that with this selection they are looking for pilots coming directly from flight school. Don`t even bother to apply if you have experience or hoping for the fast upgrade.
And after the SIM, you even have to pass this psychological interview in Hamburg. It`s completely random. You can have a lot of hours and they can tell you for example that you are not enough motivated to be a pilot (maybe not motivated to fly for them...).
It`s the typical Lufthansa style selection. Unfriendly and the kind of Dr. Astronaut screening where they show you how great they have analysed everything about you and if you don`t fit into their "box" you can`t be a good pilot in their opinion.

On the other hand - you may prepare for most things (except the psychologist probably) and pretend to fit into their "German box" but it takes a lot of time and money to train - without any guarantee of success. There are certain companies in Germany to prepare for this test so it`s probably not only the company that is profiting from this unreasonable selection (and how effective this selection in reality is we can see from this most stupid crash within the Lufthansa group - Germanwings....).
For sure they could just have a normal one day selection like most companies have but they can`t - and for me it looks like there are too many people profiting from this test.... or maybe they can impress the insurance company with their pilot selection results??
Anyway, if you want to experience this "Astronaut show" and want to lough about German psychologists (who probably wanted to fly themselves once but did not make it), go there - but don`t expect more than a bad show......
Svetlana16 is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2017, 15:03
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 356
I do totally agree with you Svetlana. All the points you make are absolutely true.
To be hones. Yes the chance to fly Airbus A320 is a good reason to apply and the salaries are maybe not great, but I have seen worse.

But that Astronaut show is true.
This test and psychological nonsense has nothing to do with the fact of being a good or bad pilot.
If you fail, then you will not be able to apply within LH group ever again.

For instance if you fail in BA, then you can come back later again as I understood. Same with many other companies. A person can improve.

Here an example.
I know a pilot, he did apply in Germanwings yeaaaars ago. Failed DLR. Is possible.
Then he got job as Lease pilot in a agency and guess what. That agency leased him out to Germanwings to fly in GWI Aircraft. After contract was over with that agency, GWI told this pilot that he performed well and that they wished to hire him to fly for GWI, but said, sorry we cannot because you failed DLR. In meanwhile they let a pilot fly an AC who was known having mental problems but returned to cockpit with at the end 100 something deaths.

I like living in Germany, but I dont see it happen that I get a job as FO in a German company unless they go onto Compass Test. Compass is not easy at all, but it is reasonable. You can prepare for it and have a good chance to pass.

In Germany TUI, Condor, SXD ( will be DLR as i heard ), LH, Eurowings and outside Germany, Turkish Airlines, Luxair, Cargolux use this DLR system.

Hopefully it will change, but I guess it will NOT . Otherwise I would have really liked to take the chances.
P40Warhawk is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2017, 16:53
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sky
Posts: 437
Passing DLR isn't that hard. If you train well enough with the given material, you'll be fine. 10-14 days of preparation should be enough. Keep an Excel file with your scores and give everything you have. Practice A LOT, but not too much. Otherwise it will be repetition.

For which airline did you do the DLR?

PS: AFAIK Cargolux does Mollymawk now.
captain.weird is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2017, 17:31
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 356
So far I didnt do any DLR's.
P40Warhawk is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2017, 17:45
  #30 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Europe
Age: 30
Posts: 85
Svetlana16 are you TR?
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Old 13th Jan 2017, 19:23
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: ON EARTH
Posts: 13
DLR language

Hello,

My question is not directly related to Eurowings but mainly dealing with DLR test.
I am a 39 years old french fighter pilot (3700TT) who is speaking basic german (B2).
I assume that it will be easier for me to take the DLR test in english.

I applied for Austrian as Ready Entry FO (LH group).
They answered to my application saying:
"Are you sure your german knowledge is sufficient to take the DLR test in german? We do not accept the applicant to take the DLR test in english"

Since we only have one chance to take the DLR test (tell me if I'm wrong) and that I potentially want to apply for Condor, Tui, Eurowings, Sunexpress, Air Berlin, Flyniki..., does anyone know if:
- one of these airlines accept DLR tests taken in english?
- it's possible to pay myself for a DLR test in english that could be recognised by these airlines later on?

I just want to get information before doing anything which will be irreversible.
Do you think german level B2 is enough to succeed in selection process (Astronauts' tests apart) and to work in a german airline as a FO or am I loosing my time?

Thanks for your help!
CEDRICO is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2017, 19:58
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
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Cant help with the DLR test and B2 level german (have no idea how good that is), however for the time being airberlin and flyniki do not use the DLR test, they use a different test setup through Interpersonal. No idea if thats available in english.
Denti is online now  
Old 13th Jan 2017, 20:50
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 356
If I were you CEDRICO, go for Cargolux. Mollymawk test. Should be in English. Luxair also DLR but I think that should be in English.
P40Warhawk is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2017, 11:46
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: ON EARTH
Posts: 13
Advice

Hello,

Thanks for your replies.
If anybody else has information about DLR/german level, I will be happy!

P40Warhawk, I did thank you by PM for the advice but after investigating if you are speaking about Cargolux Italy (base MXP 747F) which is recruiting now, be aware that the TR cost is 64000!
Being paid 2200/month means you suggest me to work for free for the 3 next years

Cheers

Cedrico
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Old 14th Jan 2017, 18:34
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 7
@ CEDRICO:
In the past you could do the DLR Test for one company and it was usually recognised for another company - usually. Like Lufthansa BU was good for Eurowings and Condor. But I am not sure if for example the English Turkish DLR Test would be good for Austrian etc. On the other hand, I believe you won`t have that many problems if the test is in German, since the test is highly standardised. There are several companies that prepare you for this test - or just buy the CD and cosscheck your results in the internet with other candidates, so you get a good feeling if you are prepared enough or not. This will help you to pass the first level. But if they have ATPL questions in German in the first part, than you are probably f.... (in the past they did not have them).
I was writing already about the second level (SIM) and the third (group exercises) and last (final interview, stress interview with psychologist from DLR and pilot).

The other question - why you would like to waste all this energy and for which salary and working conditions later?

Would it not be a better way to get your A320 rating (probably you would have to co-sponsor it), possibly with WizzAir or some small eastern European company (eg. Enter Air in Poland is also desperate) fly in this company, get the upgrade very fast and than go to China with a nice 4/4 contract.

From different German friends (internal and external) I have heard that within Lufthansa group they don`t really like ready entry pilots because their "cockpit culture" is rather based on a system where everybody comes from the same back ground/flight school. They would accept your application just because they must by law (because of discrimination). As a conclusion I would not focus too heavy on Eurowings/Austrian etc. Actually I have heard that there is now one pilot trying to go to curt because he believes it would be a discrimination that his application with Austrian was refused with a failed Lufthansa DLR test. So this is probably why they are very careful not to reject ready entry pilots application. If rumors would intensify they would be able to proof by selection invitations that most of the ready entry pilots "unfortunately" did not pass their "strict" selection. You can ask yourself if you want to participate in this?
Even the ex DDR Interflug pilots had to do this DLR Test, many did not pass this test..... There was a "unification" of Germany but not within the two German national carriers -Lufthansa and Interflug.
Just remember, they don`t like any people who did not go to their flight school as one usual question is, which NFF (Pilot course of LH) you went.....
But with modern employment law it`s difficult to only choose 20 year old pilots if there are also experienced pilots on the marked so it will be interested how Lufthansa will manage this change.
Just keep in mind, this selection is designed for ab-initios candidates, for pilots without flying experience because this is what this test was originally designed for, to predict the possibility of a future successful pilot (Lufthansa used to pay in the past 100% of the flight training to it`s pilots).
Of cause this is just my personal opinion and experience.
Cheers Sveta
Svetlana16 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2017, 18:35
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 7
@ Fieldins: Yes TR and experienced
Svetlana16 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2017, 20:22
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
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@Svetlana16, a lot what you write about has been true, in the past, for KTV Lufthansa (Lufthansa mainline, cargo, germanwings). However, those jobs are right now being slowly outsourced into Eurowings Europe. There have been no new entries into the KTV world for the last few years, and there won't be any in the future, except if something fundamental changes within lufthansa management.

But Lufthansa has hired ready entries whenever their own flight schoold (and KLM) couldn't provide enough cadets, so there are quite a few ready entries flying in lufthansa, and yes, they do not have a course number, but do have the same rights and possibilities like everybody else, with the exception of some very few old germanwings captains that are locked into that airline.

The german employment market is a mess right now, although there are quite a few jobs to be had. airberlin is hiring as fast as they can train, eurowings europe does the same, with a very real possibility for a fast upgrade, especially with a few hours jet exprience. However, the contract state for eurowings europe will be austria, not germany, even if based in germany.

Nearly the whole german aviation market is under the influence of lufthansa currently, either directly or indirectly. And it is not a good influence, they do put massive pressure on terms and conditions, via incredibly bad t&cs at Eurowings Europe, Sunexpress germany and now they put a lot of pressure on airberlin as well. TUIfly is under pressure as it is being sold to a joint venture of TUI and Etihad, with the principal AOC held by flyNiki with extremely bad conditions, the new benchmark for TUIfly.
Denti is online now  
Old 15th Jan 2017, 11:03
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Age: 31
Posts: 192
Does anybody of you guys know for how long they actually keep DLR records on file? I guess there should be some sort of data protection and discrimination policies in place. I cannot believe that they keep records forever if they are allowed to do this in the first place.
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 11:14
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: ON EARTH
Posts: 13
Hi,

Thank you Svetlana16 and Denti for these explanations.
Your advices sound good!

I will surely waste my time and my money but I will however try the DLR once expecting an airline which salary is above the 20k ish at Wizzair.
DLR could be taken as a warm up for other selection process.
It could be seen as a paying training
Challenges are something I like even if I have to accept that ATPL questions in german must be hard

China is something great for those who like this lifestyle!

@Svetlana16, are you native german?
May I ask you for which airline are you working for?

Cheers

Cedrico
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Old 15th Jan 2017, 19:01
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 7
I agree with many things Denti said. Just I would see the situation more conservative.
Since several years there was very little growth in the German aviation comparing worldwide growth (pls compare date from several sources)
Half year date 2016: Middle East +10.6%, Asia pacific +8.4%, Africa + 8.4%, Europe +3.8% and GERMANY -0,8%

http://www.bdl.aero/de/veroffentlichungen/zahlen-zur-lage-der-branche/
http://www.presseportal.de/pm/113858/3242954
http://www.airliners.de/luftverkehr-in-deutschland-waechst-schwaecher-als-globaler-markt/32509

Actually the "growth" in Germany is the lowest in Europe ( I believe partly because of the stupid taxation but also because of non competitive (too high) salary maybe???....). This was leading to the situation that there was hardly any upgrade within Lufthansa or Air Berlin (upgrade time like 15 Years LH, 10 years AB???)
Quite a few companies went bankrupt such as Hamburg Airlines, Contact Air, OLT, Augsburg Airways etc. Some aviation company that employed pilots were Condor (the Lufthansa Holliday airline - its own Lufthansa pilots went back to their mother company because Condor was sold and Germania, which created a few jobs in the pay-to-fly marked).
I do not see the traffic in Germany that much increasing right now. It's just a major shift of airplanes from one company to another AND a better utilization of equipment (Air Berlin). The real growth of Eurowings Europe is almost non existing.
I heard that Air Berlin now needs a few more pilots because some experienced First officers temporarily left Air Berlin for a captain position in China a while ago when the situation looked another from now.
A real growth in employment would go together with a strong growth in aviation- and this I can't see at the moment for Germany.
Also in the past companies world wide usually would use contract pilots (e.g. Germanwings did this in the past) to cover temporary urgent need of experienced crew. This I can't see at the moment either with Air Berlin or Eurowings, another indication that the real demand probably is not that high at the moment or the demand can be easily arranged by normal scheduling and recruiting.

My humble opinion regarding Lufthansa group staffing is, that they would like to use the wealth of experience and knowledge from the senior Air Berlin First Officers to give them a chance for captaincy within Eurowings Group and open the doors for many desperate ready entry pilots without any flying experience (of cause connected with payment for type rating). The market in Germany and neighboring country's at this moment is full of desperate ATPL ready-entry candidates searching for employment and which are ready to fly for any condition - Lufthansa knows this for sure.

Therefore, I can't see that much of a real chance for EXPERIENCED ready entires pilots going to Eurowings.

With nearly 4000h anybody would be more happy to look for a fast upgrade in companies such as Wizzair or others and comparing to Eurowings, Wizzair really upgrades!! (So far I never heard of anybody who was employed with Eurowings and got his upgrade). Personally I think that nowadays even a 737 rating is much more valuable than an airbus rating to become a captain very quickly.

So to come back to CEDRICO, in your position I would rather look for ANY fast upgrade than a "well known airline" because to become a captain on a major aircraft is everything that counts. As a captain you have generally speaking about two times higher salary and also probably two times higher chances to find employment comparing to a first officer.
In my opinion, going to Eurowings would be very risky. Nobody knows until today if this thing is working or not. What if the deal between LH and Air Berlin will not be approved?
In my opinion the chance that Eurowings would succeed is quite low. Why? Because I have the impression that successful companies grew out of its own, not by taking over other companies having a mix of different cockpit cultures etc. This hardly worked in history and has lead to many failures starting with Swissair etc. Successful companies in general start from zero. Only in this way they can be very efficient AND COMPETITIVE.
Eurowings needs to do something new.....
EasyJet and Ryanair were so successful also because they avoid taxes. Even worse, they use the tax payer to fly to provincial airports.... For example I had the impression when working for them that for the Crews they are holding the yellow carrot in front of you telling you that in xxx years you will also have this salary. It's like buying a ticket with those companies. The final figure is difficult to guess.....
And most of the crew are self employed with those companies having no salary when they are sick etc. Now this is so widely known that this business is not working anymore and 2017 is the year when many countries start to exchange tax information with each other so how can Eurowings close this gap?

*** DLR as a warm up for others will not work since this selection is unique. Even what you study for this test is useless for piloting.
*** with Wizzair for example you have a low brutto salary but many crews are employed via Switzerland and in many countries the cost of living is probably 50% less than Germany. But at the end the biggest issue is actually taxation!!! So please compare net salary / cost of living and things would looke much different.
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