Advice/ Ideas for a long time hopeful
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Advice/ Ideas for a long time hopeful
Hi guys!
I’ve been a long-time lurker here on pprune, and I even had an account about 10 years ago (long lost now).
It has always been my dream to be a pilot, ever since I was a young child. But growing up, I just never had the opportunity to follow my dream. It was unrealistic as my family have very little money (parents rent a council house) and I felt like I would have been ridiculed if I’d said that I’d wanted to do something so ‘unrealistic’.
Fast-forward... I went to university and got a degree in history. Ever since then I’ve been doing TEFL. Teaching English abroad, for those who don’t know. Initially, I worked in Eastern Europe where pay was low, but I’m currently in East Asia earning a pretty high salary. Over the last four years I’ve managed to save just over £25000. I’ve just accepted a new job where I should be able to save at least £10,000 per year (It’s a cushy number, but with high hours). I now have quite a few qualifications in this area- but I find each day to be grinding (There’s very little enjoyment left in it for me now).
I still long to follow my dreams and become a pilot. I think about it fairly often, and come to this website (among a few others) a few times a month to just browse and wonder. The problem is however.. (Our old favourite) money.
So what do you think? Should I stay in Korea and try to save as much as possible? I’m currently 26 - so if my aim is to pay for my 0-ATPL I should be able to save £100k by the time I’m 33. Not too old, right? (Do I even need this amount?)
Or, should I quit my job (with little chance of getting anything good in the UK in the meantime) and try for a scheme like BA’s future pilot programme?
Option X is of course teaching in Saudi Arabia. I could save upwards of £20k per annum (Maybe even up to £30k), but it’s not appealing at all.
P.S: Sorry for dragging up the same old theme/ story. I read this forum often and see it all the time too. I just feel I need to vent my emotions and ask about my personal situation.
Thanks
I’ve been a long-time lurker here on pprune, and I even had an account about 10 years ago (long lost now).
It has always been my dream to be a pilot, ever since I was a young child. But growing up, I just never had the opportunity to follow my dream. It was unrealistic as my family have very little money (parents rent a council house) and I felt like I would have been ridiculed if I’d said that I’d wanted to do something so ‘unrealistic’.
Fast-forward... I went to university and got a degree in history. Ever since then I’ve been doing TEFL. Teaching English abroad, for those who don’t know. Initially, I worked in Eastern Europe where pay was low, but I’m currently in East Asia earning a pretty high salary. Over the last four years I’ve managed to save just over £25000. I’ve just accepted a new job where I should be able to save at least £10,000 per year (It’s a cushy number, but with high hours). I now have quite a few qualifications in this area- but I find each day to be grinding (There’s very little enjoyment left in it for me now).
I still long to follow my dreams and become a pilot. I think about it fairly often, and come to this website (among a few others) a few times a month to just browse and wonder. The problem is however.. (Our old favourite) money.
So what do you think? Should I stay in Korea and try to save as much as possible? I’m currently 26 - so if my aim is to pay for my 0-ATPL I should be able to save £100k by the time I’m 33. Not too old, right? (Do I even need this amount?)
Or, should I quit my job (with little chance of getting anything good in the UK in the meantime) and try for a scheme like BA’s future pilot programme?
Option X is of course teaching in Saudi Arabia. I could save upwards of £20k per annum (Maybe even up to £30k), but it’s not appealing at all.
P.S: Sorry for dragging up the same old theme/ story. I read this forum often and see it all the time too. I just feel I need to vent my emotions and ask about my personal situation.
Thanks
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I don't think anyone can top the answer given by this guy, you honestly could not give a better answer even if your life would depend on it - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqJcP64FEuY
as for any BA schemes, you don't have to quit your job, to apply to the scheme.. chances of getting in are small, you can quit your job if you actually get in. As captain Petter said - do it, but PLAN IT WELL!!!
as for any BA schemes, you don't have to quit your job, to apply to the scheme.. chances of getting in are small, you can quit your job if you actually get in. As captain Petter said - do it, but PLAN IT WELL!!!
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Thanks for the video Martin. It was interesting. Though I suppose at 26, I don't worry I am too old now.
Also, it's not possible for me to realistically apply for the BA programme from Korea. It would be very costly and to all intents impossible (because our timetables tend to be very strict) to attend interviews.
Also, it's not possible for me to realistically apply for the BA programme from Korea. It would be very costly and to all intents impossible (because our timetables tend to be very strict) to attend interviews.
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Thanks for the video Martin. It was interesting. Though I suppose at 26, I don't worry I am too old now.
Also, it's not possible for me to realistically apply for the BA programme from Korea. It would be very costly and to all intents impossible (because our timetables tend to be very strict) to attend interviews.
Also, it's not possible for me to realistically apply for the BA programme from Korea. It would be very costly and to all intents impossible (because our timetables tend to be very strict) to attend interviews.
For me I am currently pursuing selection for an Airline MPL Scheme and waiting for the final yes/ no and if I do not get selected then I will imagine, pursue an integrated white tail scheme, for me integrated is the way to go, if I could have the money physically saved I might consider doing modular flying as it means you can fly in your spare time and still be earning money, then you could always do a type rating with one of the main providers (CTC, OAA, FTE) which comes to on average around £30k.
With regards to costs I think the most expensive scheme I have seen came to £109k all in so I would imagine thats your top end but someone else might be better qualified to answer that one.
Best of luck with whatever you do!
The airline industry is cyclical - right now pilots are in demand, in four or five years they might not be. The quickest route to qualification is the best, which in your shoes is modular. There are pros and cons to modular and integrated, but would you rather be qualified in 1 year or 5? If you play smart, £25K will get you most of the way. Get a Class 1 medical right now. Get a PPL now (you can count it towards an integrated course anyway) If you can take a few weeks off, head to South Africa. The Rand is through the floor and you can fly for £50 an hour. You can study ATPLs part time they are the hardest part. Then you just need The last £20k for the CPL/IR/ME and MCC. Start The ball rolling now. Or sack the idea and regret it forever.
Last edited by rudestuff; 13th Mar 2016 at 20:36. Reason: spelling
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Hi RedDragonFlyer,
I will never advice anyone to be a Professional Pilot. Things may change and most probably will, but for the past 15 – 20 years was just going from bed to the worst and I still cannot see the light at the end of tunnel.
Your age is on your side, and if you have other trade-other education-profession and absolutely burning to fly than go for it. As rudestuff wrote and I agree with it, go for the cheapest option, license is license modular or integrated it does not make any difference. Regarding the speed it is entirely up to you and the effort you put into it. You can make it modular way even faster than integrated if you work hard, if you are well prepared, if you chose the school somewhere where the sun shines most of the time, if your new your ATPL subject already, if you are focused and determined. And back to your age, you can still afford to go travel around, take less desirable (paid) jobs, crappy conditions and in a course of 10 years collect experience and hope that the industry will change by that time to get the job that will make you happy in the part of the world where you want… Anyway, best of luck…. My 5 cents….
PS.(check Aviator school in Ft Pierce, their FAA route, all hrs on multi engine with instructor ratings and possibility to continue with them as a instructor. In the mean time you can convert through EFT which is under the same roof with Aviator)..
I will never advice anyone to be a Professional Pilot. Things may change and most probably will, but for the past 15 – 20 years was just going from bed to the worst and I still cannot see the light at the end of tunnel.
Your age is on your side, and if you have other trade-other education-profession and absolutely burning to fly than go for it. As rudestuff wrote and I agree with it, go for the cheapest option, license is license modular or integrated it does not make any difference. Regarding the speed it is entirely up to you and the effort you put into it. You can make it modular way even faster than integrated if you work hard, if you are well prepared, if you chose the school somewhere where the sun shines most of the time, if your new your ATPL subject already, if you are focused and determined. And back to your age, you can still afford to go travel around, take less desirable (paid) jobs, crappy conditions and in a course of 10 years collect experience and hope that the industry will change by that time to get the job that will make you happy in the part of the world where you want… Anyway, best of luck…. My 5 cents….
PS.(check Aviator school in Ft Pierce, their FAA route, all hrs on multi engine with instructor ratings and possibility to continue with them as a instructor. In the mean time you can convert through EFT which is under the same roof with Aviator)..
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RedDragonFlyer
I started my flying career at 29 and it has been the best thing I have ever done. The personal reward has been unmatched and I did a few things before involving IT etc.
There is a new scheme for modular training called the Wings Alliance in the UK which was started by Alex Whittingham from Bristol Groundschool. I would strongly suggest you give them a call and have this discussion with them. It wont cost you anything to chat to them, and you can sound your plan out with them.
South Africa is cheap at the moment. Look at a company called Aeronav Academy based at Lanseria Airport in Johannesburg. They are also top people and will look after you. They are very well respected and have been around for a very long time there. The last time I was there they operate Cessna 172, 182 Diamond Eclipse and Diamond Twinstar.
When chatting to Bristol Groundschool maybe ask them about doing a distance learning course for the theory exams which you would be able to go through wherever your working.
Anyway the following websites for you to look at:
Aeronav Academy - Flight, Pilot and Ground School Training, Lanseria, South Africa
https://www.bristol.gs/
Wings Alliance | Excellence in pilot training
I hope you find a way! In the aviation game you always have to find a way...and never give up!
Best of luck
I started my flying career at 29 and it has been the best thing I have ever done. The personal reward has been unmatched and I did a few things before involving IT etc.
There is a new scheme for modular training called the Wings Alliance in the UK which was started by Alex Whittingham from Bristol Groundschool. I would strongly suggest you give them a call and have this discussion with them. It wont cost you anything to chat to them, and you can sound your plan out with them.
South Africa is cheap at the moment. Look at a company called Aeronav Academy based at Lanseria Airport in Johannesburg. They are also top people and will look after you. They are very well respected and have been around for a very long time there. The last time I was there they operate Cessna 172, 182 Diamond Eclipse and Diamond Twinstar.
When chatting to Bristol Groundschool maybe ask them about doing a distance learning course for the theory exams which you would be able to go through wherever your working.
Anyway the following websites for you to look at:
Aeronav Academy - Flight, Pilot and Ground School Training, Lanseria, South Africa
https://www.bristol.gs/
Wings Alliance | Excellence in pilot training
I hope you find a way! In the aviation game you always have to find a way...and never give up!
Best of luck
Last edited by mothboy; 17th Mar 2016 at 23:28. Reason: update
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I've passed CTC selection. You've got a few choices:
1. Pay for the course outright, I know a few guys who've been in positions to do this (inherited a lot of money etc.) this is risky though, especially without a confirmed contract at the end.
2. Go get a job with an Airline, work your way up and use your knowledge/experience and network to get a sponsorship/internal entry
3. Go modular and work while you learn
If you are passionate about aviation then working for airline will be no problem and an easy first step. A lot of the pilots I know worked in the industry first mainly in Ops. As someone who's made it this way, and a lot of the guys I know who aren't rich have made it the same way, this is my advice.
1. Pay for the course outright, I know a few guys who've been in positions to do this (inherited a lot of money etc.) this is risky though, especially without a confirmed contract at the end.
2. Go get a job with an Airline, work your way up and use your knowledge/experience and network to get a sponsorship/internal entry
3. Go modular and work while you learn
If you are passionate about aviation then working for airline will be no problem and an easy first step. A lot of the pilots I know worked in the industry first mainly in Ops. As someone who's made it this way, and a lot of the guys I know who aren't rich have made it the same way, this is my advice.
Last edited by FlyANA; 6th Apr 2016 at 15:42. Reason: -
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Do your training around your current job, and keep earning the whole time. Integrated schemes are both expensive and slow. Going modular you will not take 18 months, and crucially you'll have money coming in the whole time. Start studying the theory today. Get your PPL exams done, then take 3/4 weeks off and do your PPL at an intensive school. Keep working and studying for the ATPL theory(which, by the way, is NOT that hard-a lot of info but nothing difficult). If it's possible to build hours while you work and study for the theory then so much the better. That way once you've done those exams it's just another 4-6 week course for CPL and ME-IR. Back to work for a while and then 10-14 days for MCC-JOC. Remember, if you're dedicated and prepare a lot at home then the actual flying courses do not take long at all and don't have to cost crazy money. You could do it for 40k or so if you're savvy. Almost a fact of life that you'll need 20-30k for a type rating afterwards though. Good luck in any case.
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Interested to see how you could do a modular in under 18 months? Unless you have the £40k saved already. And then you are under times for Medical, Check Rides, the weather in England certainly, availability when it is nice weather. I book a lesson every week and have had 3 opportunities since December. And I've allocated two years whilst working for the whole process, whilst earning just shy of £40k per year.
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You can do anything you want to do. You weren't born with a silver spoon in your hand, so you've got what it takes to succeed in life.
- do it modular as it will cost less and you can earn money whilst you train.
- doing it integrated doesn't make much difference, if the economy is bad integrated guys struggle just as much to get their first gig.
- if you can do your modular train through a branded school it will help you network and it looks (slightly) better on your CV.
- ever thought of driving an HGV in the UK, my friend is a tramper and earns as much money as a FR first officer, easy way to earn money quickly to put towards your training. Train driving also pays good money but it's not as easy to get into.
- be prepared to pay for your type rating.
- positivity, positivity, positivity, finding the money will not be the only mountain you have to move on your way to the RHS.
Good luck mate!
- do it modular as it will cost less and you can earn money whilst you train.
- doing it integrated doesn't make much difference, if the economy is bad integrated guys struggle just as much to get their first gig.
- if you can do your modular train through a branded school it will help you network and it looks (slightly) better on your CV.
- ever thought of driving an HGV in the UK, my friend is a tramper and earns as much money as a FR first officer, easy way to earn money quickly to put towards your training. Train driving also pays good money but it's not as easy to get into.
- be prepared to pay for your type rating.
- positivity, positivity, positivity, finding the money will not be the only mountain you have to move on your way to the RHS.
Good luck mate!
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Don't become a pilot.
Study, get a decent job and buy your own plane. You will fly whenever, with who you want and where you want.
I looked at all resume on the desk in my airline, many (if not most of them) young pilots are willing to pay for working.
Of course we take some of them, my job is to make pilots pay
I do not approve it but my words are useless here...management do whatever they want. Anyway, I fly less and get paid more but I look forward to retiring lol
If really you want to be a pilot, here an advice to "live the dream":
Buy flight simulator,
Wake up at 4am, take your car, drive for one hour or so around your home and come back.
then prepare your flight and play your sim game in real time. (at least 6 hours of flight a day)
Stare at your instrument and use autopilot from 200ft AGL after take off to 2000ft AGL before landing
Ask your wife to come to see you every 30 min
for a coffee or a chat.
Increase your volume enough to simulate the contant noise.
Do it for 3 or 4 days in row.
get one or 2 days off and repeat the same but change your duty time: at 4pm to finish at 2am.
You will get a tiny idea of the job
Study, get a decent job and buy your own plane. You will fly whenever, with who you want and where you want.
I looked at all resume on the desk in my airline, many (if not most of them) young pilots are willing to pay for working.
Of course we take some of them, my job is to make pilots pay
I do not approve it but my words are useless here...management do whatever they want. Anyway, I fly less and get paid more but I look forward to retiring lolIf really you want to be a pilot, here an advice to "live the dream":
Buy flight simulator,
Wake up at 4am, take your car, drive for one hour or so around your home and come back.
then prepare your flight and play your sim game in real time. (at least 6 hours of flight a day)
Stare at your instrument and use autopilot from 200ft AGL after take off to 2000ft AGL before landing
Ask your wife to come to see you every 30 min
for a coffee or a chat.Increase your volume enough to simulate the contant noise.
Do it for 3 or 4 days in row.
get one or 2 days off and repeat the same but change your duty time: at 4pm to finish at 2am.
You will get a tiny idea of the job
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[QUOTE=MaverickPrime;
- ever thought of driving an HGV in the UK, my friend is a tramper and earns as much money as a FR first officer, easy way to earn money quickly to put towards your training. Train driving also pays good money but it's not as easy to get into.
Good luck mate![/QUOTE]
Just a little aside. Only even consider HGV if its something you want to do. It will cost you over £2500 to get your C+E licence, if you pass first time. Expect to work on Tippers/bin wagon or agency on 8 wheeler for the first year of your work, very few companies take on freshly passed drivers for Class 1. After that the going rate is £10 an hour on Artic if you are lucky, plenty of people I know are still working for £8 fully qualified. Tramping is a route towards £35-40k per year, but it is a pretty horrible job, away all week in a little box, bad sleep in ****ty service stations. We also get constantly hassled by VOSA, Police, Dvla and need to be switched on at all times to rest related violations, where fines can start at £250 upto £5000. Not to mention you and only you are responsible for the legality of your wagon and the potential death and destruction you can cause from one second of not paying attention. I'm lucky to earn over £800 a week but it takes me 80+ hours, no evening at home and often 6 day weeks, sat in jams and bored on the road. On a sunny day with no hassle HGV driving is a breeze and almost akin to the feeling of flying, but on a rainy day in a layby with smoke pouring from your brakes and the depot hassling you as to why your load is melting in the back, it sucks!
Also @greenlights is abit of a cock
- ever thought of driving an HGV in the UK, my friend is a tramper and earns as much money as a FR first officer, easy way to earn money quickly to put towards your training. Train driving also pays good money but it's not as easy to get into.
Good luck mate![/QUOTE]
Just a little aside. Only even consider HGV if its something you want to do. It will cost you over £2500 to get your C+E licence, if you pass first time. Expect to work on Tippers/bin wagon or agency on 8 wheeler for the first year of your work, very few companies take on freshly passed drivers for Class 1. After that the going rate is £10 an hour on Artic if you are lucky, plenty of people I know are still working for £8 fully qualified. Tramping is a route towards £35-40k per year, but it is a pretty horrible job, away all week in a little box, bad sleep in ****ty service stations. We also get constantly hassled by VOSA, Police, Dvla and need to be switched on at all times to rest related violations, where fines can start at £250 upto £5000. Not to mention you and only you are responsible for the legality of your wagon and the potential death and destruction you can cause from one second of not paying attention. I'm lucky to earn over £800 a week but it takes me 80+ hours, no evening at home and often 6 day weeks, sat in jams and bored on the road. On a sunny day with no hassle HGV driving is a breeze and almost akin to the feeling of flying, but on a rainy day in a layby with smoke pouring from your brakes and the depot hassling you as to why your load is melting in the back, it sucks!
Also @greenlights is abit of a cock
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Also if you don't get an aviation job to warm up, when your chosen FTO asks you selection questions like, what commercial pressures are facing crews, what do you know about recent FTL changes / what EASAs role in influencing a pilot is, what have you done to demonstrate passion for aviation etc. Replying with, "I became a HGV driver" is going to immediately put you on the back foot.
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Wow!!!!
So many great, extended responses I don't know where to start!
The first thing to say, I suppose, is that I'm not married, don't have kids and have no debt (excluding my student loan). Which is a great thing!
@Hertspilot - good luck with the selection. May I ask which airline's scheme you're applying for?
I must say that I agree with you that integrated has a more secure feel, however the cost can be significantly more than modular. I do wonder whether full-time modular would be best?
Modular part-time while working isn't really a good option for me. Being an English foreign language teacher means there are some opportunities in the UK, but not that many. Hopefully I'd find something for less that £109k, so I could start earlier.
Plus, here in E. Asia I am able to save £10k per annum, as a fairly conservative amount, and still go on foreign holidays four times a year. That would be unthinkable for any entry level job I'd get in the UK. And as for HGV...
@Mothboy - I've emailed Wings Alliance and Aeronav academy. Neither have got back to me yet. I'm not too sure on the SA one as I'd probably prefer somewhere slightly closer to home.
@FZRA -
Thanks for your story. That actually seems like a pretty good idea. I've emailed the school in Lodz and got some very interesting and informative replies. I actually used to live in Poland (teaching English), and I'd be quite happy to go back. They say that you can get all the certificates and build hours for 47500 Euros including accommodation. Not bad at all, as I could have that amount and a buffer within two years.
@MaverickPrime - I think I will definitely do it modular due to the massive cost savings. Have you done it before?
I don't think HGV driving is for me. Especially when I can save more money staying in my current job.
I hope I have answered everything! Positivity definitely is key and I only want to look forward
So many great, extended responses I don't know where to start!
The first thing to say, I suppose, is that I'm not married, don't have kids and have no debt (excluding my student loan). Which is a great thing!
@Hertspilot - good luck with the selection. May I ask which airline's scheme you're applying for?
I must say that I agree with you that integrated has a more secure feel, however the cost can be significantly more than modular. I do wonder whether full-time modular would be best?
Modular part-time while working isn't really a good option for me. Being an English foreign language teacher means there are some opportunities in the UK, but not that many. Hopefully I'd find something for less that £109k, so I could start earlier.
Plus, here in E. Asia I am able to save £10k per annum, as a fairly conservative amount, and still go on foreign holidays four times a year. That would be unthinkable for any entry level job I'd get in the UK. And as for HGV...
@Mothboy - I've emailed Wings Alliance and Aeronav academy. Neither have got back to me yet. I'm not too sure on the SA one as I'd probably prefer somewhere slightly closer to home.
@FZRA -
Thanks for your story. That actually seems like a pretty good idea. I've emailed the school in Lodz and got some very interesting and informative replies. I actually used to live in Poland (teaching English), and I'd be quite happy to go back. They say that you can get all the certificates and build hours for 47500 Euros including accommodation. Not bad at all, as I could have that amount and a buffer within two years.
@MaverickPrime - I think I will definitely do it modular due to the massive cost savings. Have you done it before?
I don't think HGV driving is for me. Especially when I can save more money staying in my current job.
I hope I have answered everything! Positivity definitely is key and I only want to look forward
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Superb choice sir, well done! I will be attending Lodz probably summer 2018 to finish my CPL,ME+IR, great price, great results and superb connections with the starter airlines. Sounds like you have a perfect situation money wise and time off. Why not get your PPL started straight away and do that, it must be relatively cheap out there, use your holidays to blast it off quickly whilst you're still saving, then do the hours building in the next holiday block and save like crazy. By summer next year you could be a qualified pilot looking for your first job. How cool would that be!! Good luck!
