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TR and 500hours, still looking for a job???

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TR and 500hours, still looking for a job???

Old 19th Apr 2013, 15:36
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TR and 500hours, still looking for a job???

Has anyone actually done the TR and Line Training with 500 hours and NEVER got a job afterwards? There seems to be new LT programs popping up everyday from different agencies and airlines. P2F is far from being on the way out!!

I appreciate people commenting on who was successful securing a Pilot job after Line Training as well as people who weren't successful in securing a job after LT.


Thanks!
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Old 20th Apr 2013, 11:53
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300+ views, I guess people who done the P2F are happily flying today and probably not even bothered with PPRuNe these days......I wonder
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Old 20th Apr 2013, 12:46
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You will generally find people don't like to admit to spending another 50k on top of what they already spent for a CPL only to still be jobless.

People on here will talk about a guy that knows a guy that did P2f blah blah who is now flying the space shuttle and he says to do it.

Remember there are hundreds of typed and experienced drivers out there who are jobless. 500 on type just gets your CV through to be stacked with the 300 other CV's they have. It's just to filter out people. It isn't a guarentee.
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Old 20th Apr 2013, 16:57
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Thanks for your comment pilotchute. I'm hoping someone will either comment here or PM me who has experienced Line Training.

Some airlines are taking guys with 250 on type these days.
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 17:16
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The good news is that although the P2F schemes are many in number, the number of airlines willing to recruit people from this route is now dwindling in number due in general to unknown quality of output from these schemes. 500hrs on type these days means pretty much zip, so not worth exploring IMHO.
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 17:41
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Thanks again for your comments!

@ Ecamsurprise.... yeah Wizzair is one of the airlines, the pay is rubbish but you will have your ATPL unfrozen within 12 months then the world is your oyster. I know 500 hours wont guarantee a job but it will guarantee an interview. I'm 27 and if i go instructing for a couple of years the airlines might not want me when I'm 30+ and have 2000 piston hours. I know one European budget carrier that wont hire 30+ year old guys.

@ OutsideCAS....Are the number of airlines willing to recruit people with 500 on type dwindling? Maybe in Europe but Asia have lots of orders for new aircraft for expansion more than replacement. Also I know when I contacted a UK budget carrier a few months ago they were willing to assess me with 280 hours on type when she asked the DFO. I have 0 on type btw and 280 total.

Instruct or Line Train? decisions...decisions....
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 18:01
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No dilemma there. INSTRUCT.
50K to get 500 hours on type? Not gonna get you anywhere. It's all a numbers game in aviation: supply and demand. Tons of guys out there with plenty of time on type that you'll be competing against. Instruct, save your money, have fun, you'll learn so much more about yourself as a pilot. And trust me you will get to where you want to go via the instructing route. It will take a couple of years but when hiring starts you will be well ahead of fresh CPL holder with 250 hours TT. And when you are instructing: NETWORK, NETWORK, NETWORK.
Good luck!
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 22:01
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And flying as an FO for 1500-2000/month pays the bills when you have to service a loan of 100K pounds? I'd rather take my chances via the FI route.
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 22:05
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a320.....yes thankfully the numbers are dwindling in Europe, the problem with paying for those 500hrs (apart from cost to the buyer!) is that the recruitment process becomes diluted by the vendors desire to "sell" it's product, that way it allows a wildly varying spectrum of candidates to fill the RH seat. Not to say all are bad but it is now becoming common place to avoid this source as the end product has not generally been screened effectively and could be a false economy in the longer term. If the UK budget carrier will assess you then I would call them on it and push for the interview and assessment, I'm afraid I fear it won't happen as often what is said in a call to what happens in reality is at opposite ends. But try all the same and networking is always good and usually key in getting in. Leave the P2F [email protected] in the gutter where it belongs, instruct, network and hone your skill set, maybe work in other related aviation roles, get experience - and avoid shister outfits like the Irish one at all costs.
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 22:59
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I don't think anyone is going to advise Line Training to me on this are they? lol Even though anytime I ask people/friends outside of aviation what should I do after explaining instructing and line training advantages and disadvantages they all say I should do the Line Training, isn't that very interesting?

A lot of people who are against LT i think are people who don't have the money for Line Training, I could be wrong. But there have been some fair points mentioned above explaining why not to do it. To be honest I would love if all line training programs were stopped, it isn't fair but if i can scrape the money together for a loan i will be ultimately achieving my goal.

I wouldn't mind instructing, I think I would be good at it but its just that fear of being stuck on that road forever, i'll still owe a 100k in 5 years time because i'll be instructing and be 32. Where as if I done the LT, in 5 years time I could/should have 3000+ hours on an A320 and possibly going for Command and more importantly making steady repayments on my loan.

I really appreciate all your comments, it actually took quite a while before anyone replied to my initial thread and thanks! I wont be making a move until September anyway, gotta save some (a lot) of cash!

Still haven't heard from anyone who done the LT and they're still looking for a job either!!
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Old 23rd Apr 2013, 23:32
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If you don't want to hear the answer, why ask the question?

You need confirmation bias?
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Old 24th Apr 2013, 01:08
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You borrowed 100k for pilot training in the middle of the worst financial slump since the 1930's? Now your gonna pay for LT because you wont be able to service your loan if you don't?

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds! You wanna pay another 50k for LT so you might be able to pay back your loan cause instructing doesn't pay enough?

OMG
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Old 24th Apr 2013, 01:43
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So you ask an aviation specific question to a bunch of people outside aviation and a bunch of people inside aviation and you are inclined to follow the advice of those outside aviation (because it's the answer you want to hear).

Riiiight?

500 hrs on type is pretty worthless to be honest. People with 3000hrs on type don't fancy their chances in the jobs market right now. Don't pay for a rating unless their is a rock solid job offer attached to it. And that means contracts, in writing, not just promises.
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Old 24th Apr 2013, 05:55
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Nice to hear from you guys, I hope ye're well!

@Pilotchute...just to be specific yes I have a loan but it's not from a financial institution and i'm not required to make weekly/monthly payments until I have a job. So if I was to do LT I would then be borrowing the money from the Bank myself.

@ Torque Tonight...sometimes it's important to ask an aviation related question to someone outside of aviation, it doesn't mean you have to go with it but it gives you a balanced point of view, that goes for any other industry also.

I have 2 emails from airlines saying they will assess me when I have 400 on type and another when I have 300 on type. There are no other requirements, no total time, no pic, no multi just hours on type.
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Old 24th Apr 2013, 06:46
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But instructing will give me much more knowledge of flying and hands on experience, so I may choose to instruct...

Thanks!
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Old 24th Apr 2013, 08:50
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a320, it is to your credit that your asking this question. Being honest, if you ask anyone outside of aviation about your options I think it fair to say that the answers you will get to be of little use as aviation is such a specific area and what may apply in other employment arenas isn't the same sadly as your chosen one.

The reason no answers are coming in from previous customers of the P2F brigade may be because it just doesn't work ultimately - could be any number of reasons but they are all quiet and non-supportive at this moment in time. In fact opinion seems firmly against so far yes?.

It may not be quite what you wanted to hear (all have desires to jump on that first jet and fly and that is quite understandable) but all you will do is accrue greater debt and 500hrs on type that isn't really recognised as much value in the real world today and in the future. If the airlines you mention are really serious about taking you with 300/400hrs on type then great but I doubt they will actually come up with the goods necessarily when it comes to employment time - could always phone them as a fictious person with the experience, see what happens okay, may be not but you get what i'm saying yes?
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Old 24th Apr 2013, 08:54
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Aviation pyramid...

The image need no comment...

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Old 24th Apr 2013, 12:29
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a320,

outsideCAS has a very good point. In my part of the world many operators use these sort of tactics to get people out of their office or to stop calling them. I worked at a place that simply told each hopeful that if they had "XXX" more hours or a "XXX" rating they would get a shot. This was complete nonsense as most of the time we weren't hiring and even then what we told them still wasn't enough.

There is a DHC 8 operator that will interview you with a fATPL, 250TT and 100 command. Only a very small amount of guys with that minimum get in. The average is around 1000TT and a bit of multi or SE Turbine to get an offer.

I'm told the very low time guys struggle in the sim. As soon as you load them up a bit it goes pear shaped.

Last edited by pilotchute; 24th Apr 2013 at 12:32.
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Old 24th Apr 2013, 16:58
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Well from my point of view - I have around 230 hours on the A320, luckily I didn't pay for them but unfortunately the company went bust. I have been researching the options and it seems everything I come across, once you sift through the initial BS, is a p2f scheme. I honestly cannot believe anyone deals with these companies - they are all so dodgy and to give them large amounts of money is nothing short of madness. You have no guarantees, no idea when you will start, how long it will take and most importantly no clue as to the standard that this company will train you too - If it's bad what reputable airline will want to take you on? Rather than bashing those who do p2f, I have to say in my position I know exactly what they all feel - this is the quickest and most efficient way to get into the airlines.. however I really fear it's not... In fact I'm sure of it. Its a desperate situation for low hour guys who have invested so much into flying and it is very hard to accept the reality of the situation. But the reality is that there is a miniscule amount of jobs going for low hour guys and 500 hours on type from some dodgy operator isn't going to help - you may get lucky but do you want to risk it?

I have accepted the situation, have just got a job as an instructor, and am starting my FI course next week. I can't wait to do it, to improve my flying skills, build my hours, enjoy the teaching and climb my way back up the ladder. I am sure things will improve one day and in the meantime don't miss out on all the other great things aviation has to offer... If you start at 20 and retire at 65 that's 45 years in an airliner - honestly what is the rush?
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Old 24th Apr 2013, 20:25
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230 hours and then the airline went bankrupt....
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