No jobs yet.... type rating? eaglejet? what should I do?
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No jobs yet.... type rating? eaglejet? what should I do?
Dear All,
I am currently applying to all the jobs I can find that don't require type ratings on their recruitment sites, but they all seem to answer me that they prefer type rated pilots anyway..... what should I do? I'm hearing different views from everyone I talk to.
Some of my friends tell me to just get a type rating and the jobs will come. (but then theres the question of will they even hire me without the 500 hours on type they all talk about)
Then some people tell me to do a line training course with eaglejet (please no preaching about how bad p2fly schemes are cos most of you who do, have been pilots for years and havent got a clue what guys like me are going through at the moment, including huge debt, working menial jobs, and clicking away on the pc waiting for a miracle)
My problem and question is.... what do i do? can anyone give me advice?
DO i stick to my guns and hope some company will come around and hire me as a low time pilot with no type? (by the way Ryanair is pretty much out of the question as i failed my IR the first time and they just told me NO as if i'm not good enough)
DO i get the type rating and hope some company will hire me without the 500 or so hours on type?
or DO i just indebt myself even further and go work for free for a year or so in indonesia on a pay to fly scheme?
please serious advice only as im in the midst of making the most difficult decision of my life!
What has aviation come to?
I am currently applying to all the jobs I can find that don't require type ratings on their recruitment sites, but they all seem to answer me that they prefer type rated pilots anyway..... what should I do? I'm hearing different views from everyone I talk to.
Some of my friends tell me to just get a type rating and the jobs will come. (but then theres the question of will they even hire me without the 500 hours on type they all talk about)
Then some people tell me to do a line training course with eaglejet (please no preaching about how bad p2fly schemes are cos most of you who do, have been pilots for years and havent got a clue what guys like me are going through at the moment, including huge debt, working menial jobs, and clicking away on the pc waiting for a miracle)
My problem and question is.... what do i do? can anyone give me advice?
DO i stick to my guns and hope some company will come around and hire me as a low time pilot with no type? (by the way Ryanair is pretty much out of the question as i failed my IR the first time and they just told me NO as if i'm not good enough)
DO i get the type rating and hope some company will hire me without the 500 or so hours on type?
or DO i just indebt myself even further and go work for free for a year or so in indonesia on a pay to fly scheme?
please serious advice only as im in the midst of making the most difficult decision of my life!
What has aviation come to?
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TR and 500 hours Line Training Package.
Ignore the P2F preaching cobblers. No amount of SEP / FI time is going to plump your presently flat CV. Equally, Joining Eastern Airways or similar is no longer a rung on the ladder leading to better things... quite the opposite in fact. Not to mention they charge folks for a museum type rating anyway - don't line their pockets. Do you fancy being based in the major hub Wick?
Email Curd, and email him now. Soon enough his books will be full and no more room will exist for his schemes; there is already a waiting list building.
Remember 'skill fade'; when was the last time you flew IFR? IMO you need to act promptly before you 'used' to be a pilot! What a waste of time (and money) that would have been? There is no retirement bulge, there are 1000's of freshly minted FATPL's, so do the maths!!
I acknowledge that P2F is not a job; it does not guarantee employment. It does get you flying, you will get to use your licence, it's a fulfilling experience, and it does add to your CV. At least you can then apply for jobs as you meet the application criteria.
You know what needs to be done and, if I were you, I wouldn't delay.
Ignore the P2F preaching cobblers. No amount of SEP / FI time is going to plump your presently flat CV. Equally, Joining Eastern Airways or similar is no longer a rung on the ladder leading to better things... quite the opposite in fact. Not to mention they charge folks for a museum type rating anyway - don't line their pockets. Do you fancy being based in the major hub Wick?
Email Curd, and email him now. Soon enough his books will be full and no more room will exist for his schemes; there is already a waiting list building.
Remember 'skill fade'; when was the last time you flew IFR? IMO you need to act promptly before you 'used' to be a pilot! What a waste of time (and money) that would have been? There is no retirement bulge, there are 1000's of freshly minted FATPL's, so do the maths!!
I acknowledge that P2F is not a job; it does not guarantee employment. It does get you flying, you will get to use your licence, it's a fulfilling experience, and it does add to your CV. At least you can then apply for jobs as you meet the application criteria.
You know what needs to be done and, if I were you, I wouldn't delay.
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Spanair bankrupt: +400 pilots at home, rated on A320, experienced and now searching a job. Think about.
I suggest you to wait until better economic period comes on again. If you do a SSTR + LT, you have a "job" for 1 year and at the end your (dramatic) situation will be the same as now.
Think about.
I suggest you to wait until better economic period comes on again. If you do a SSTR + LT, you have a "job" for 1 year and at the end your (dramatic) situation will be the same as now.
Think about.
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I know two flight instructors under 1000TT (mostly SEP FI) who both got a jet airline job in the past month. Neither bought a type rating nor time on type. One will have the type rating paid for by the airline (National carrier), the other will have to purchase the type rating through the airline (an LCC Not Ryanair).
The number 1 reason why they got into an interview was because of who they knew in the airline. The way BigNumber talks, I would think he works for EagleJet.
The number 1 reason why they got into an interview was because of who they knew in the airline. The way BigNumber talks, I would think he works for EagleJet.
Last edited by zondaracer; 29th Jan 2012 at 15:57.
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(please no preaching about how bad p2fly schemes are cos most of you who do, have been pilots for years and havent got a clue what guys like me are going through at the moment, including huge debt, working menial jobs, and clicking away on the pc waiting for a miracle)
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Maybe this is where you're going wrong? Why not actually get out and network?
Is there a specific place to find these people and where to meet them? id lvoe to have a chat with a few chief pilots and give them my cv but where do I meet them?
All the pilots I know are relatively new, low time guys who work as FO's so they pretty much have no leverage in the companies.
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The number 1 reason why they got into an interview was because of who they knew in the airline. The way BigNumber talks, I would think he works for EagleJet.
As for BigNumber I don't think it's so bad if he does work for them. i'd be doing the same i think. only thing is that its a huge decision to make whether im gonna go for it or not. I'd rather exclude every other possibility first.
im not gonna give up but i need a real solution and i think Big Number is the only one who came up with a viable one.
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Don't heed the advise of those sat comfortably in the front right seat; resplendant in their gold bars. They just don't want you to join in.... far better that you get a job dropping parachutes at the local grass strip!
remember FR isn't a pay to fly scheme is it!
IMO half the anti P2F lobby (having paid for the opportunity to beg MOL for a job); are preaching from a pulpit build on sand. FR is the high priest of P2F anyway.
IMO; EJ / Fly A320 et al. are no better or worse than the FR Scheme.
remember FR isn't a pay to fly scheme is it!
IMO half the anti P2F lobby (having paid for the opportunity to beg MOL for a job); are preaching from a pulpit build on sand. FR is the high priest of P2F anyway.
IMO; EJ / Fly A320 et al. are no better or worse than the FR Scheme.
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I understand your position, I am in the the exact same position and have been for coming up on 2 and a half years now. I havnt been able to do any flying inbetween with paying off debt and saving for IR renewals etc.
I have been thinking of doing a TR myself, not least for the experience but if it even gives me the smallest chance of a job, I would risk it. Any time I bring it up in conversation I get slated for 'ruining aviation' but these comments are coming from people flying on a daily basis were as I am packing shelves for the foreseeable future. So for those who say dont p2f, what would you do in my position?
I have been thinking of doing a TR myself, not least for the experience but if it even gives me the smallest chance of a job, I would risk it. Any time I bring it up in conversation I get slated for 'ruining aviation' but these comments are coming from people flying on a daily basis were as I am packing shelves for the foreseeable future. So for those who say dont p2f, what would you do in my position?
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Bignumber, I agree with you that RYR is a glorified pay to fly scheme. only advatage is that they pay you... if only EJ could come up wiht a scheme that offered even the most minimum of wages for this scheme would be ideal. id go for it tomorrow.
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If I believed in God - I would pray for P2F and SSTR to stop every day!
Sorry guys, but if you one day 20 years from now wants to be in the pointing end of a nice jet - and being able to pay the mortgage and see your family some times. Then stop this!
How hard it may seem, there is ONLY one thing to do! Wait, wait, wait, right now the planet is full with unemployed fATPL's and even experienced rated pilots. If young punks continue to P2F and SSTR there will be no real FO jobs in 20 years!! And if your lucky you can pay your own upgrade...
Your chance is out there, but not now and maybe not in the next year, so save your money, go get a job that pays the bills or study something else, keep current, and wait for the market to pick up..... Unless of course you can look in the mirror and say that 20 years from now flying is the pay itself, then go on buy your rating and pay to work...
But some of us try to make a living here, and move up to the big bucks one day....and for every P2F bloke, that day moves further away...
Sorry guys, but if you one day 20 years from now wants to be in the pointing end of a nice jet - and being able to pay the mortgage and see your family some times. Then stop this!
How hard it may seem, there is ONLY one thing to do! Wait, wait, wait, right now the planet is full with unemployed fATPL's and even experienced rated pilots. If young punks continue to P2F and SSTR there will be no real FO jobs in 20 years!! And if your lucky you can pay your own upgrade...
Your chance is out there, but not now and maybe not in the next year, so save your money, go get a job that pays the bills or study something else, keep current, and wait for the market to pick up..... Unless of course you can look in the mirror and say that 20 years from now flying is the pay itself, then go on buy your rating and pay to work...
But some of us try to make a living here, and move up to the big bucks one day....and for every P2F bloke, that day moves further away...
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"Ryanair is a glorified pay to fly scheme, only advantage is they pay you".
Not really pay to fly then is it? Most jobs in the UK (turboprop and jet) that accept low hour "wannabes" require a SSTR. You may not like it but that's the way it is!
Not really pay to fly then is it? Most jobs in the UK (turboprop and jet) that accept low hour "wannabes" require a SSTR. You may not like it but that's the way it is!
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No alarm bells?
So you all started your intergrated/modular courses what 3 years ago? A year into the biggest global meltdown since the great depression in the 30's. It seems most of you have large debts to pay meaning you managed to borrow money at this time which is a miracle in itself (Thanks Dad for Mortgaging the house!) This on its own is scary.
It now comes as a surprise that there are very few jobs around? I like the quote about how tough it is now and us older guys don't know what we are talking about. I remeber in the late 80's early 90's when the last recession was on I had trouble getting a job at a supermarket. I only wanted to do some hours at night and on the weekends but I was sitting waiting for an interview with 30 to 40 year old people applying for the same job.
Last time I checked every generation has had it easier than the one before. Try borrowing the money for a CPL in the 80's and see how far you would have got. Once upon a time you needed 700 hours for a CPL.
It now comes as a surprise that there are very few jobs around? I like the quote about how tough it is now and us older guys don't know what we are talking about. I remeber in the late 80's early 90's when the last recession was on I had trouble getting a job at a supermarket. I only wanted to do some hours at night and on the weekends but I was sitting waiting for an interview with 30 to 40 year old people applying for the same job.
Last time I checked every generation has had it easier than the one before. Try borrowing the money for a CPL in the 80's and see how far you would have got. Once upon a time you needed 700 hours for a CPL.
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Chris !! close ur eyes and join eagle jet international !! atleast it will put u somewhere !! instead of sitting just move ur buds and get ur a$$ in there !! take loan no problem atleast u will work hard and when u get the job u can start paying back !! but sitting like this ideal wont give u anything bro !!
try to go for eagle jet or try to search up south africa !!
try to go for eagle jet or try to search up south africa !!
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Guys, I just want to make it clear to everyone that I don't mean to insult anyone. I'm just looking for the right direction. I can appreciate the fact that others have had it hard and i don't doubt it at all, im just saying that every generation is slightly different and has challenges of its own. In ours i guess its the pay to fly problem caused by people enjoying filling their pockets just a tad too much.
With that said, Ryanair is pay to fly cos u gotta pay 28000 euros to get in, which is quite a bit more than just a type on its own.... and of course the additional interview and sim assesment fees. oh and the fact that I know some pilots who had a 737 type but were still told that they had to redo the type and pay the money to get in..... so pay to fly or not, in my opinion they are crooks.
Kip, Tak for din svar og jeg kan se hvor du kommer fra med at sige at hvad du siger. Jeg er bare traet af med at vente og jeg tror du kan maske forstaa dette. (sorry for the danish there everyone) what im trying to say is that I would rather pray for there to be enough jobs for all of us to live happily doing what we love to do. im not trying to say pay to fly schemes are right, i just wanna get in that seat!!! and as a wise man once said "a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do" and if thats what it is then so be it.
Besides as I recently read in an aviation magazine that according to Boeing, Airbus and ICAO, the number of airliners will double in the next 15 years, and ther will therefore be a shortage of pilots. I dont think the pay to fly schemes will last long seeing as airlines will supposedly be fighting to find pilots. Im just not ready to wait around and find out if theyre right or not.
Keep the comments coming, its excellent. Thanks everyone again for your time and thoughts.
With that said, Ryanair is pay to fly cos u gotta pay 28000 euros to get in, which is quite a bit more than just a type on its own.... and of course the additional interview and sim assesment fees. oh and the fact that I know some pilots who had a 737 type but were still told that they had to redo the type and pay the money to get in..... so pay to fly or not, in my opinion they are crooks.
Kip, Tak for din svar og jeg kan se hvor du kommer fra med at sige at hvad du siger. Jeg er bare traet af med at vente og jeg tror du kan maske forstaa dette. (sorry for the danish there everyone) what im trying to say is that I would rather pray for there to be enough jobs for all of us to live happily doing what we love to do. im not trying to say pay to fly schemes are right, i just wanna get in that seat!!! and as a wise man once said "a mans gotta do what a mans gotta do" and if thats what it is then so be it.
Besides as I recently read in an aviation magazine that according to Boeing, Airbus and ICAO, the number of airliners will double in the next 15 years, and ther will therefore be a shortage of pilots. I dont think the pay to fly schemes will last long seeing as airlines will supposedly be fighting to find pilots. Im just not ready to wait around and find out if theyre right or not.
Keep the comments coming, its excellent. Thanks everyone again for your time and thoughts.
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Chris,
I finished training in September of 2008 and only landed my first job in May of this year, therefore I do know what you're going through. Obviously every individuals situation is different but the sense of despair and angst is a sentiment that many on these forums can share, you are not alone, far from it.
I was only able to achieve a breakthrough through pure nepotism, I have no qualms in admitting that, but prior to this I really did exhaust every avenue (though the options available are limited).
To those who say 'stop being lazy, go and tow gliders or do aerial photography' please do a quick calculation of how many of these jobs are going nation/worldwide and how many people would be more than willing to do this for free.
To those who advocate P2F: YOU ARE RUINING THE AVIATION INDUSTRY!!! Only joking! The people who say this to you are not in your position, neither can they comprend what you are feeling. In my lowest moments (which were pretty god damn low) I seriously considered Eaglejet and the ilk. Eventually I decided against it, not on moral grounds but simply because after proper research it became clear that risks clearly outweighed any potential rewards.
I guess the best advice I can give you is:
Go and visit as many airfields as you can, ask for the CFO, explain your situation, offer to do any sort of work, on the reception, volunteer fire crew, making the teas, whatever it may be. That is how you start a network, from the bottom up, don't just go barging into the training captains office at BA.
Also, keep your chin up, remember that happiness could be waiting just around the corner be it inside or outside the aviation world, also get off Pprune for a while, you will not miss it and it will not miss you.
Oh and just so you know, life can still be a heck of a bi*ch even when you do fly a shiny jet for a living nor does it give you any immediate justification for your existence.
I finished training in September of 2008 and only landed my first job in May of this year, therefore I do know what you're going through. Obviously every individuals situation is different but the sense of despair and angst is a sentiment that many on these forums can share, you are not alone, far from it.
I was only able to achieve a breakthrough through pure nepotism, I have no qualms in admitting that, but prior to this I really did exhaust every avenue (though the options available are limited).
To those who say 'stop being lazy, go and tow gliders or do aerial photography' please do a quick calculation of how many of these jobs are going nation/worldwide and how many people would be more than willing to do this for free.
To those who advocate P2F: YOU ARE RUINING THE AVIATION INDUSTRY!!! Only joking!
The people who say this to you are not in your position, neither can they comprend what you are feeling. In my lowest moments (which were pretty god damn low) I seriously considered Eaglejet and the ilk. Eventually I decided against it, not on moral grounds but simply because after proper research it became clear that risks clearly outweighed any potential rewards. I guess the best advice I can give you is:
Go and visit as many airfields as you can, ask for the CFO, explain your situation, offer to do any sort of work, on the reception, volunteer fire crew, making the teas, whatever it may be. That is how you start a network, from the bottom up, don't just go barging into the training captains office at BA.
Also, keep your chin up, remember that happiness could be waiting just around the corner be it inside or outside the aviation world, also get off Pprune for a while, you will not miss it and it will not miss you.
Oh and just so you know, life can still be a heck of a bi*ch even when you do fly a shiny jet for a living nor does it give you any immediate justification for your existence.
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you have 2 choices: sit at home or pay to fly.
I have chosen the p2f and I am very happy of my choice, at least I am not watching TV.
in 5 years, you will ask your self "and now what I do"?
I have chosen the p2f and I am very happy of my choice, at least I am not watching TV.
in 5 years, you will ask your self "and now what I do"?