Resources for low-time pilots not interested in airlines?
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Resources for low-time pilots not interested in airlines?
I have a regular job that I can scale back in order to do some commercial flying. I have no desire to work in the airlines or fly anything requiring a runway longer than 3000ft. Some stuff I'd like to do:
Ferry flights
Rural supply delivery (but NOT for religious organizations)
Anything involving odd or vintage aircraft
Anything on floats
The problem is, I don't know where these jobs are typically listed. Any good resources? I'm willing to relocate (within reason) within the USA. An ideal situation would be periodic 2-week stints somewhaere (including overseas) doing flying-intensive work, then going home to my day job. I'm young, unattached, and bored to tears.
I am a COMM/INST/ASEL/ASES/Glider/Tailwheel pilot w/ 350hrs. I realize total time is an ever-present issue, but I'm looking for advice (other than instructing) to get started. Thanks.
Ferry flights
Rural supply delivery (but NOT for religious organizations)
Anything involving odd or vintage aircraft
Anything on floats
The problem is, I don't know where these jobs are typically listed. Any good resources? I'm willing to relocate (within reason) within the USA. An ideal situation would be periodic 2-week stints somewhaere (including overseas) doing flying-intensive work, then going home to my day job. I'm young, unattached, and bored to tears.
I am a COMM/INST/ASEL/ASES/Glider/Tailwheel pilot w/ 350hrs. I realize total time is an ever-present issue, but I'm looking for advice (other than instructing) to get started. Thanks.
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I don't understand what you mean.
Perhaps I should be more clear: I want to build time and engage in commercial flying with no intent of moving into anything larger than single-engine pistons/turboprops or perhaps light twins. All the advice out there for aspiring commercial pilots hinges on the assumption that they want to fly jets and/or for the airlines.
I suppose instructing wouldn't be all that bad, especially if I did things like tailwheel endorsements and glider ratings. I could also pick up some time flying glider tows, but this tends to be seasonal and there are no glider ops where I currently live.
Perhaps I should be more clear: I want to build time and engage in commercial flying with no intent of moving into anything larger than single-engine pistons/turboprops or perhaps light twins. All the advice out there for aspiring commercial pilots hinges on the assumption that they want to fly jets and/or for the airlines.
I suppose instructing wouldn't be all that bad, especially if I did things like tailwheel endorsements and glider ratings. I could also pick up some time flying glider tows, but this tends to be seasonal and there are no glider ops where I currently live.
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KNOW the right people. If you don't (and chances are you don't currently) GET to know them.
Contacts will get you any job, no matter what the min requirements say on paper. No contacts may not yield to a job, even if you're overqualified.
That's not just in flying. Applies to anything really.
Good luck.
Contacts will get you any job, no matter what the min requirements say on paper. No contacts may not yield to a job, even if you're overqualified.
That's not just in flying. Applies to anything really.
Good luck.
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what I mean is you have 350 hours experience, and are listing things you will and won't do, and I don't think it's realistic for you to expect to find the "perfect" job with that little experience.
You're limiting your possible employers by saying you're only willing to relocate within reason, and that you want an employer to hire you for a few weeks then let you go back to your day job.
I don't know if you've ever worked outside of aviation, but think of it this way.
350 hours is about the equivalent of a High School diploma - anyone going into aviaion has to have about 250 hours in order to have a cpl, so 350 isn't much more than the absolute minimum.
3500 hours would be the equivalent of about a 4 year degree, that's 800 hours per year for 4 years, plus the 300 from "high school"
11,000 hours would be someone with ten years experience and a four year degree.
Now, if you were a company, looking to hire someone, do you want a high school graduate, someone with a bachelors' or someone with 10 years experience?
Granted, the company can't always get the 10,000 hour pilot, so it comes down to supply and demand, so there's obviously some in-between compromise based on the company, the requirements, and the pilot.
But you need to recognize that if you have a High School diploma, and no experience, you're probably going to get a minimum wage job flipping burgers at MacDonalds, and aren't going to be able to say, I will only work the fryer, let a lone, I will not work fast food.
You need to face reality, and be willing to work your backside off for a few years (3 to 5) doing whatever you can to build time, even if it's not what you really want to do in the long run.
Hopefully this makes sense to you, and you see what I mean by your expectations are not very reasonable
The problem is, I don't know where these jobs are typically listed. Any good resources? I'm willing to relocate (within reason) within the USA. An ideal situation would be periodic 2-week stints somewhaere (including overseas) doing flying-intensive work, then going home to my day job. I'm young, unattached, and bored to tears.
I don't know if you've ever worked outside of aviation, but think of it this way.
350 hours is about the equivalent of a High School diploma - anyone going into aviaion has to have about 250 hours in order to have a cpl, so 350 isn't much more than the absolute minimum.
3500 hours would be the equivalent of about a 4 year degree, that's 800 hours per year for 4 years, plus the 300 from "high school"
11,000 hours would be someone with ten years experience and a four year degree.
Now, if you were a company, looking to hire someone, do you want a high school graduate, someone with a bachelors' or someone with 10 years experience?
Granted, the company can't always get the 10,000 hour pilot, so it comes down to supply and demand, so there's obviously some in-between compromise based on the company, the requirements, and the pilot.
But you need to recognize that if you have a High School diploma, and no experience, you're probably going to get a minimum wage job flipping burgers at MacDonalds, and aren't going to be able to say, I will only work the fryer, let a lone, I will not work fast food.
You need to face reality, and be willing to work your backside off for a few years (3 to 5) doing whatever you can to build time, even if it's not what you really want to do in the long run.
Hopefully this makes sense to you, and you see what I mean by your expectations are not very reasonable
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Jazzop89
Sounds like you want to work in Alaska, most places up there require 1200-1500 hours to get hired. If you know people you can get in with as low as the 135 VFR mins. Places like Hageland and Grant both work 2 weeks on/off and have jumpseat privileges with multiple airlines. Most of the strips they work on air 1500 to 4000 feet, and almost all are gravel, and a lot in SW Alaska are nice and bumpy/curvy/have holes. Perfect for someone who doesn't mind the odd bits of excitement on T/O and landing.
To get the hours you would need recommend doing pipeline patrol, crop spraying, instructing (having students try and kill you can be very exciting). Possibly some skydiving when you get more hours. Plus you can do glider work. It is always the first job which seems like the hardest to get. cheers
Sounds like you want to work in Alaska, most places up there require 1200-1500 hours to get hired. If you know people you can get in with as low as the 135 VFR mins. Places like Hageland and Grant both work 2 weeks on/off and have jumpseat privileges with multiple airlines. Most of the strips they work on air 1500 to 4000 feet, and almost all are gravel, and a lot in SW Alaska are nice and bumpy/curvy/have holes. Perfect for someone who doesn't mind the odd bits of excitement on T/O and landing.
To get the hours you would need recommend doing pipeline patrol, crop spraying, instructing (having students try and kill you can be very exciting). Possibly some skydiving when you get more hours. Plus you can do glider work. It is always the first job which seems like the hardest to get. cheers
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flyingfish24:
Yeah, I'm aware that most signs point to AK as the place to do what I want to do. It's certainly in the back of my mind. It will be tricky to relocate there and continue my main profession, though. And it's a long commute from the East Coast!
darkroomsource:
Thanks for the patronizing breakdown of what logbook hours are worth. I am quite aware of it. However, you appear to assume that I am a dumb kid who wants to "grow up to be a commercial pilot." I'm simply looking to avoid going postal by scaling back my regular work and subsidize the kind of flying I prefer to do by getting paid to do it. Oh, and I also know the value of sweat equity; I've spent a good 10 hours wrangling gliders on the ground for every hour I have logged in the air.
One way to get around company minimums is just to own my own A/C and operate under Part 91. That's also a possibility. It also means I get to work for myself, which is one of the main things I hope to achieve in my commercial flying.
Yeah, I'm aware that most signs point to AK as the place to do what I want to do. It's certainly in the back of my mind. It will be tricky to relocate there and continue my main profession, though. And it's a long commute from the East Coast!
darkroomsource:
Thanks for the patronizing breakdown of what logbook hours are worth. I am quite aware of it. However, you appear to assume that I am a dumb kid who wants to "grow up to be a commercial pilot." I'm simply looking to avoid going postal by scaling back my regular work and subsidize the kind of flying I prefer to do by getting paid to do it. Oh, and I also know the value of sweat equity; I've spent a good 10 hours wrangling gliders on the ground for every hour I have logged in the air.
One way to get around company minimums is just to own my own A/C and operate under Part 91. That's also a possibility. It also means I get to work for myself, which is one of the main things I hope to achieve in my commercial flying.
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Yeah, I don't think you get it.
Assume you're hiring someone to work in your company, let's say you're an IT manager, and are looking for a Unix Administrator, or maybe an Oracle DBA, or even a Junior Level Programmer.
Would you hire someone who's only going to work for you for two weeks, then leave and go back to his "day job"?
It would take you two weeks to show him where his cubicle is at, where the bathrooms are, cafeteria, source code libraries, etc. etc. etc.
Why assume that a company hiring pilots would be any different?
So you need to point yourself in a slightly different direction. Don't limit your search to the criteria you've listed. I'm trying to say this in as nice and polite a way as possible.
I don't think that even a ferry company would be interested in someone who can only work when he's got vacation time from his day job.
I can think of one flying job where you can work on mostly just Saturdays, and the occaisional day during the week, and that would be a part time instructor position.
Assume you're hiring someone to work in your company, let's say you're an IT manager, and are looking for a Unix Administrator, or maybe an Oracle DBA, or even a Junior Level Programmer.
Would you hire someone who's only going to work for you for two weeks, then leave and go back to his "day job"?
It would take you two weeks to show him where his cubicle is at, where the bathrooms are, cafeteria, source code libraries, etc. etc. etc.
Why assume that a company hiring pilots would be any different?
So you need to point yourself in a slightly different direction. Don't limit your search to the criteria you've listed. I'm trying to say this in as nice and polite a way as possible.
I don't think that even a ferry company would be interested in someone who can only work when he's got vacation time from his day job.
I can think of one flying job where you can work on mostly just Saturdays, and the occaisional day during the week, and that would be a part time instructor position.
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I'd like to avoid working for a "company" if possible. I asked about jobs, which are not the same thing as positions in a company. For example, towing gliders on a weekend is a job that one can do all by oneself. Ferrying airplanes is another. Someone paying me to fill an airplane with ping-pong balls and drop them into a volcano is another job. Instructing is yet another. The kinds of jobs I am thinking of may have customers, but they don't have bosses per se (notwithstanding the concept that your customer is to some extent your boss). I was hoping people would offer some alternatives to these obvious jobs that I might not be aware of.
Your points are not lost on me, but that sort of advice is not what I am soliciting.
Your points are not lost on me, but that sort of advice is not what I am soliciting.
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I'd like to avoid working for a "company" if possible. I asked about jobs, which are not the same thing as positions in a company. For example, towing gliders on a weekend is a job that one can do all by oneself. Ferrying airplanes is another. Someone paying me to fill an airplane with ping-pong balls and drop them into a volcano is another job. Instructing is yet another. The kinds of jobs I am thinking of may have customers, but they don't have bosses per se (notwithstanding the concept that your customer is to some extent your boss). I was hoping people would offer some alternatives to these obvious jobs that I might not be aware of.
Your points are not lost on me, but that sort of advice is not what I am soliciting.
Your points are not lost on me, but that sort of advice is not what I am soliciting.
I've had my own company since 1985.
Each of the "jobs" you've described though, would, generally be working for someone else, and again, if you were the owner of the banner towing operation, would you hire someone for two weeks, when it probably takes 3 or 4 weeks to train them?
You can't fly part 135 unless you do it for a company that has a 135 cert., or you get your own 135 certificate.
You can't tow banners unless you've got the connections for it, a plane to tow with, the banner "hardware", advertising, etc. In other words, you'd have to tow for a company.
The reason you're not getting the answer you want is because the answer you want is not valid. There are no "temp" pilot jobs, with the exception of:
1. part time instructing, and it's not "temp" as much as just part time
2. ferrying
Both of those require EITHER connections or a "position" with a company
I do know people who've picked up the occaisional ferry job, but it's really hit and miss if you don't do it full time or do it through a company or agency.
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That's another - skydiving - I talked to a couple operators nearby here, and they'll take you for "just the weekends", but you have to "commit" to the season. Commit does not mean on paper, but they want to hear you say you'll be there for the whole season.
