Ryanair TR Funding
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Thebeak- So what? Would you like a medal for that? Are you implying that because someone has had financial help from banks, parents...etc they are less intitled to a job than you because you have paid with your own money? You sound like your trying to be some kind of martyr.
Im a "young" pilot but have worked hard all my "young" life. I could write out a very long list of achievements for you however its none of your business how I came to be in the position I am in today - although I will say I had financial help with the TR because I wanted to take up a great offer, otherwise id probably be on here 24/7 asking for advice and listening to people like you. I dont regret my decision at all - been doing this job for a while now and had my TR paid off in 5 months.
Unfortuantely the days of the airline paying for your rating are all but gone. The sooner people realise that in the long run it makes no difference, the sooner they will be in the right hand seat. simple.
Im a "young" pilot but have worked hard all my "young" life. I could write out a very long list of achievements for you however its none of your business how I came to be in the position I am in today - although I will say I had financial help with the TR because I wanted to take up a great offer, otherwise id probably be on here 24/7 asking for advice and listening to people like you. I dont regret my decision at all - been doing this job for a while now and had my TR paid off in 5 months.
Unfortuantely the days of the airline paying for your rating are all but gone. The sooner people realise that in the long run it makes no difference, the sooner they will be in the right hand seat. simple.
Fortunately I disagree with you.
The paid for £75k course and the paid for £33k type rating were the result of an unsustainable credit boom largely based on an unsustainable inflation of house prices. Its over. Its part collapsed with more collapsing to follow.
In time the ability of Wannabe to self fund 6 digit training costs will abate as credit is withdrawn. Very VERY few 20 or 30 year olds have access to £100,000 in cash. They may have access to it via personal or parental credit but that is NOT the same as access to it in cash.
As unemployment rises and the economic situation deteriorates airlines will not require new pilots so thankfully supply will meet demand. The flying schools will be the ones squeezed to death. So many fixed costs, such cut throat competition, dwindling demand - toxic.
WWW
The paid for £75k course and the paid for £33k type rating were the result of an unsustainable credit boom largely based on an unsustainable inflation of house prices. Its over. Its part collapsed with more collapsing to follow.
In time the ability of Wannabe to self fund 6 digit training costs will abate as credit is withdrawn. Very VERY few 20 or 30 year olds have access to £100,000 in cash. They may have access to it via personal or parental credit but that is NOT the same as access to it in cash.
As unemployment rises and the economic situation deteriorates airlines will not require new pilots so thankfully supply will meet demand. The flying schools will be the ones squeezed to death. So many fixed costs, such cut throat competition, dwindling demand - toxic.
WWW
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I wouldn't mind a medal commandB if you are offering? A platinum one which says I didn't have someone else pay for my training on it.
I was asked a question:
And I answered it.
You paid for your £33K TR + interest and an early payment charge in 5 months? Smells like either bull
or you are going to say you had the VAT back and claimed back in tax blah blah blah - how much tax were you paying? In fact, how much are you being paid in order for your tax to pay that back? In 5 months? Who paid for your rent and your food and your car and your training debt while you were paying of the 33K debt? Not being a parasite again are you? Your figures don't stack up. Pipe down. People really do have to be careful in listening to the pipe dream myths you lot come up with, you make it all sound so easy and care free. Little dreamer.
I agree with you on that WWW, very shortly things are going to change.
I was asked a question:
Why dont you tell everyone how you funded your training and a 737 rating.
You paid for your £33K TR + interest and an early payment charge in 5 months? Smells like either bull
or you are going to say you had the VAT back and claimed back in tax blah blah blah - how much tax were you paying? In fact, how much are you being paid in order for your tax to pay that back? In 5 months? Who paid for your rent and your food and your car and your training debt while you were paying of the 33K debt? Not being a parasite again are you? Your figures don't stack up. Pipe down. People really do have to be careful in listening to the pipe dream myths you lot come up with, you make it all sound so easy and care free. Little dreamer.I agree with you on that WWW, very shortly things are going to change.
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im not sure he wants a medal for it.again its only my opinion but when you hear people explaining how they became a self made millionaires it sounds quite admirable and inspiring.now im not claiming getting a pilots licence is anywhere approaching that level of achievement.at the same time there is an achievement and for me and i repeat only my opinion it doesnt quite have the same ring to it as mummy and daddy paid for it.
im not suggesting either that everyone is like this but the danger is if you get it easy it loses alot of its value.no real sacrifice involved.it also makes it an elitists career, only for those that can afford to throw money at it.surley not what you want.one can also lose perspective.
i am curious to know how someone pays for a tr with the interest on top of other training loans and survives on what ryr pay initially. 5 months would certainy be an achievement.
may i just ask one question and please dont bite my head off but those that have relied on parental help, why didnt ye wait save, sacrifice and fund the dream on your own.and beore someone tells me its not possible,it is.not a loaded question
also because parents generally want he best for their kids do they now put themselves in serious debt.i imagine quite a few families are in the crap financially trying to fund juniors dream right now.maybe junior needs to learn to get a job, save then pay for it himself.right now id love a four bed house unfortunately like most of the world you have to be patient rather than banging of the folks door.
im not suggesting either that everyone is like this but the danger is if you get it easy it loses alot of its value.no real sacrifice involved.it also makes it an elitists career, only for those that can afford to throw money at it.surley not what you want.one can also lose perspective.
i am curious to know how someone pays for a tr with the interest on top of other training loans and survives on what ryr pay initially. 5 months would certainy be an achievement.
may i just ask one question and please dont bite my head off but those that have relied on parental help, why didnt ye wait save, sacrifice and fund the dream on your own.and beore someone tells me its not possible,it is.not a loaded question
also because parents generally want he best for their kids do they now put themselves in serious debt.i imagine quite a few families are in the crap financially trying to fund juniors dream right now.maybe junior needs to learn to get a job, save then pay for it himself.right now id love a four bed house unfortunately like most of the world you have to be patient rather than banging of the folks door.
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Exactly Blackred, the most successful people are self made. The way I see it is a bit like this, the difference between someone who pays for their own training or takes their own debt and someone who has their parents back them is like the difference between someone who goes to the gym and puts in the time with resistance training and someone who goes and gets plastic surgery. The Ryanair guys and girls are nothing but fake, plastic tarts - it's all for show (except for the likes of TT of which there are some). Saving and working is resistance training - it's not easy, you hit walls and you'll 'feel the burn'.
Why don't they wait? Because they can only understand small numbers. It's a deep flaw in the less intelligent and something I used to 'exploit' people in my previous work. They don't understand a figure like £175000 of debt. And they never see it. It isn't really there. They do understand a £2400 a month pay cheque over a £1100 a month one though and they do understand 60 Euros an hour over £8 and hour and that is what they focus on. They don't understand the concept of opportunity cost. They don't appreciate the exponential effect their actions will have on their wealth in the future.
[quote]Opportunity cost or economic opportunity loss is the value of the next best alternative foregone as the result of making a decision.[/QUOTE]
I'd recommend really thinking about that in your decison making. Take into account terms and interest. Try and extrapolate a line into the future. Do everything you do for the right reasons. There is nothing more you can do.
It is not because the truth is too difficult to see that we make mistakes...... we make mistakes because the easiest and most comfortable course for us is to seek insight where it accords with our emotions - especially selfish ones.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Why don't they wait? Because they can only understand small numbers. It's a deep flaw in the less intelligent and something I used to 'exploit' people in my previous work. They don't understand a figure like £175000 of debt. And they never see it. It isn't really there. They do understand a £2400 a month pay cheque over a £1100 a month one though and they do understand 60 Euros an hour over £8 and hour and that is what they focus on. They don't understand the concept of opportunity cost. They don't appreciate the exponential effect their actions will have on their wealth in the future.
[quote]Opportunity cost or economic opportunity loss is the value of the next best alternative foregone as the result of making a decision.[/QUOTE]
I'd recommend really thinking about that in your decison making. Take into account terms and interest. Try and extrapolate a line into the future. Do everything you do for the right reasons. There is nothing more you can do.
It is not because the truth is too difficult to see that we make mistakes...... we make mistakes because the easiest and most comfortable course for us is to seek insight where it accords with our emotions - especially selfish ones.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn
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Good old beak, still spending his entire life on pprune trying to belittle ryanair pilots in a horribly arrogant manner. Oh well i guess i would be bitter too in the company of people who fly 737s if i was stocking shelves in tesco for a living.
Get a life man, go find a girlfriend or something.
Get a life man, go find a girlfriend or something.
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I guess I would be too if I was in that position. I must add to my post, the Ryanair pilots I don't like are the 18-22 year olds who have done a tin pot degree/no degree, done a full integrated course and then the TR with Ryanair. Those are the 'pilots' I speak of.
On the topic of what you have said McNutjob, What is the effect of going from flying to a more professional job than shelf stacking, earning say 50K a year and then trying to come back to flying? How will the airlines react given the current times? Would they have a problem with that and see it as turning my back on flying? It is a case of having to do what I have to do. My full intention is to come back to flying......In fact I will be coming back to flying. Would it matter or would it be irrelevant to an airline?
On the topic of what you have said McNutjob, What is the effect of going from flying to a more professional job than shelf stacking, earning say 50K a year and then trying to come back to flying? How will the airlines react given the current times? Would they have a problem with that and see it as turning my back on flying? It is a case of having to do what I have to do. My full intention is to come back to flying......In fact I will be coming back to flying. Would it matter or would it be irrelevant to an airline?
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been doing this job for a while now and had my TR paid off in 5 months.
Or mabe you are on your own payscale?
Either that, or you are talking absolute BS.
Even some dodgy tax fiddling which seems to be the BRKFLD way can't make the figures add up.
This is not a personal attack. It's just that you are displaying the classic, mainly young, wannabe characteristic of making up rubbish to make you feel you have made the right chioce in getting your mum/dad/self into upto £100,000 of debt. And to show for it all, you have a very weak 'contract' with a company which has another contract with a company who has THE worst terms and conditions that the EU has to offer.
If you want The Beak and the likes to stop banging on, then a hefty slice of realist honesty would be the best cure.
If you said somthing along the lines of;
'look, I was lucky enough to have the resources which allowed me to get my fATPL and then pay for a type rating which is shamelesly 50% overpriced. I weighed up the options and decided to go for it. I owe those who paid for me a lot of thanks and I hope that it works out for me and them.
However, the job is far from ideal, the company treats you poorly and it is not for everybody. You will be paying this off for over a decade. Think carefully.'
Then I think there would be very little room to critisize you.
But you come out with dangerous rubbish. So you you get hammered.
It's called confirmation bias.
EK
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Very interesting debate again. May I please hijack this thread for a moment?
I spoke to a RYR pilot the other day who told the story of a guy who got chopped during line training. According to him the line trainig captain just stood up to him after a flight or a sim session and told him he would not make it. The guy basically got the boot. No reasons given. If this is true, holy sh, it scares the crap out of me, considering the personal investment this guy had made. But why did he get kicked out?
My question to those flying for RYR, in all honesty (I know it happens with any airline, not too often though I would think!) have you witnessed this before and what are the reasons why some people do not make it all the way to line release? I mean I would think that the sim ride gives the training captain a rough idea as to how good the applicant's flying is and whether he will pass the TR course and what comes after that. So why is it that a very few do fail later on? Are they arrogant? Do they not do what they are being told?
I spoke to a RYR pilot the other day who told the story of a guy who got chopped during line training. According to him the line trainig captain just stood up to him after a flight or a sim session and told him he would not make it. The guy basically got the boot. No reasons given. If this is true, holy sh
, it scares the crap out of me, considering the personal investment this guy had made. But why did he get kicked out? My question to those flying for RYR, in all honesty (I know it happens with any airline, not too often though I would think!) have you witnessed this before and what are the reasons why some people do not make it all the way to line release? I mean I would think that the sim ride gives the training captain a rough idea as to how good the applicant's flying is and whether he will pass the TR course and what comes after that. So why is it that a very few do fail later on? Are they arrogant? Do they not do what they are being told?
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Is the beak really flying for an airline?
Hey beak......!
Do you really fly for an Airline?This forum is supposed to be an informative sight not some bl...dy chat room!
All I can say is you must have plenty of time off, to spend writing the rubbish we have to read on here!Why don't you find a hobby or something?Maybe fishing so you can sit talking to yourself all day!
Do you really fly for an Airline?This forum is supposed to be an informative sight not some bl...dy chat room!
All I can say is you must have plenty of time off, to spend writing the rubbish we have to read on here!Why don't you find a hobby or something?Maybe fishing so you can sit talking to yourself all day!
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Yes people do fail the TR and yes they do fail the base training and yes you can fail line training.
Paying for a TR is no guarantee whatsoever of reaching the necessary standard. Just the same as if the airline was paying.
Ryanair set a very high standard that has to be achieved. It needs to know it's people are the right people as a hull loss resulting from poor pilot ability would be very very serious.
For the ground school you simply need to know your stuff and answer the questions. For the sim and beyond it is about ability to perform. You are given chances but if you need extra sim sessions then you pay for them, and they're not cheap. You can still get chopped. It's not unusual to hear of people failing the base (circuits) training but the company will put them back in the sim and give them another crack at it. They don't charge for that. It's in their interest at this stage to try and get you through.
When I did my TR in 2007 one person from my course was chopped and also someone on the course behind us. Both were down to lack of ability. Pure and simple. Plenty of chances were given. Remedial training was given. Do bear in mind that your sim buddy is having to accompany you through all this even though of course they don't pay for the training they don't need. You do.
I also know of someone who was chopped during line training (easyjet) who simply couldn't land with any sort of consistency. They were given a lot of sectors but to no avail.
There is no chance that a trainer will just chop you for no reason. You'll be thoroughly debriefed. Written records are kept and it's all discussed with both you are your sim buddy together. If there's any chance of you getting chopped you'll be only too well aware of why and that it's a possibility.
Once you're in to any airline the struggle is not over. You will have to work harder than you would believe to make the grade. It's not easy but it does get easier and of course one day you'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.
Get the job. Get your head down and enjoy it.
Paying for a TR is no guarantee whatsoever of reaching the necessary standard. Just the same as if the airline was paying.
Ryanair set a very high standard that has to be achieved. It needs to know it's people are the right people as a hull loss resulting from poor pilot ability would be very very serious.
For the ground school you simply need to know your stuff and answer the questions. For the sim and beyond it is about ability to perform. You are given chances but if you need extra sim sessions then you pay for them, and they're not cheap. You can still get chopped. It's not unusual to hear of people failing the base (circuits) training but the company will put them back in the sim and give them another crack at it. They don't charge for that. It's in their interest at this stage to try and get you through.
When I did my TR in 2007 one person from my course was chopped and also someone on the course behind us. Both were down to lack of ability. Pure and simple. Plenty of chances were given. Remedial training was given. Do bear in mind that your sim buddy is having to accompany you through all this even though of course they don't pay for the training they don't need. You do.
I also know of someone who was chopped during line training (easyjet) who simply couldn't land with any sort of consistency. They were given a lot of sectors but to no avail.
There is no chance that a trainer will just chop you for no reason. You'll be thoroughly debriefed. Written records are kept and it's all discussed with both you are your sim buddy together. If there's any chance of you getting chopped you'll be only too well aware of why and that it's a possibility.
Once you're in to any airline the struggle is not over. You will have to work harder than you would believe to make the grade. It's not easy but it does get easier and of course one day you'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.
Get the job. Get your head down and enjoy it.
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No I am not currently flying for an airline unfortunately. I have done in the past and will do in the future.
Yes you can fail the TR at Ryanair, I know of a guy who did because he couldn't land the plane in the base training, he just kept floating it. Poor bugger.
As for the hobby thing, unfortuantely mine is flying so it's a bit of a sad time for me.
Yes you can fail the TR at Ryanair, I know of a guy who did because he couldn't land the plane in the base training, he just kept floating it. Poor bugger.
As for the hobby thing, unfortuantely mine is flying so it's a bit of a sad time for me.
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not that i know anything about your mates case beak, i do find it strange that he was kicked out during base cx due to floating.any base cx i have done ( as an f/o)seem to be a bit of a jolly, the sim cx and line training are times when you really need to make the grade.but i always thought that with a base check unless you really cock it up you should be ok.unless of course this floating was getting into tail srape terrritory. i doubt landing distance was going to be a problem unless it was in a limiting airfield which woud be more than a little unfair.never can tell with ryr though
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he just kept floating it. Poor bugger.
I wouldn't normally comment on rubbish like this, but come on
p.s. flying doesn't count as a hobby if you 'are/were/will be in the future/delete as applicable' a professional pilot!
Ta!
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I think I need a drink...
OMG, all these couch flyers, face palm....ever heard of being humble in your ignorance ?
Its no problem at all not knowing about the subject at hand, but when you pretend to....
- some people pay for training by their own means some borrow from a bank and some from parents..so what
- no one gets cut from training without extra sessions, long chats, and a session with a senior instructor.
had a mate on our TR course required an extra session and had to do the base training 3 times to get through, and is now a very competent FO.
- as for cutting someone who floats on a particular base training session...give me a break, things like that can be fixed, attitudes on the other hand are more difficult to remedy..
I have been with FR for 2 1/2 years and have found the training department to be nothing but fair and helpfull...so please lay off the scaremongering..
signing off in exasperation
Goose
Its no problem at all not knowing about the subject at hand, but when you pretend to....
- some people pay for training by their own means some borrow from a bank and some from parents..so what
- no one gets cut from training without extra sessions, long chats, and a session with a senior instructor.
had a mate on our TR course required an extra session and had to do the base training 3 times to get through, and is now a very competent FO.
- as for cutting someone who floats on a particular base training session...give me a break, things like that can be fixed, attitudes on the other hand are more difficult to remedy..
I have been with FR for 2 1/2 years and have found the training department to be nothing but fair and helpfull...so please lay off the scaremongering..
signing off in exasperation
Goose
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I know two guys who failed the base check with ryanair first time around, the first guy was put back in the sim at ryanairs expense and then passed the base check second time around. The other guy was also put back in the sim but failed it again a second time - so ryanair put him back in the sim again at their own expense and he passed on his 3rd attempt.
Ryanair dont drop people out of the blue if they have a couple of bad sim sessions thats ridiculous - if someone gets dropped from a tr course or line training/a base check you can be sure they were given every opportunity to succeed.
Ryanair dont drop people out of the blue if they have a couple of bad sim sessions thats ridiculous - if someone gets dropped from a tr course or line training/a base check you can be sure they were given every opportunity to succeed.