How Do I Pay For Atpl!
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From reading this thread, the general consensus seems to be that the modular training route is just as good, if not better, than the integrated route. I've always been under the impression that the integrated route is more favourable, especially when jobs are harder to come by, since greater continuity of flying generally equals better quality flying. I also thought airlines prefered graduates from the integrated courses, as all of their training had been completed with one provider.
Can anyone shed any light?
Thanks
Can anyone shed any light?
Thanks
Supercharged PPRuNer
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Pull up a comfy chair:
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...d-nauseam.html
649 posts and counting . . .
http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...d-nauseam.html
649 posts and counting . . .
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Another thing to think about when deciding on when to train is that if you are fully qualified and in the RHS at age 19/20/21, then that is potentially another 46/45/44 years worth of flying ahead of you providing you go on to reach retirement age.
And whilst that is all well and good to make it to the LHS and work your way up the seniority list, once the novelty has worn off, it will just be another job and you could well become very bored of it by the time your in your 30's.
I'd suggest to anyone at age 16-20 to go out and either get more qualifications or get a job, and work and save as much as possible and look to begin the training around age 25 when you won't have to worry about taking out a huge loan. Having a skill that you can also use around your flying to earn extra money on the side (there are always people looking to save a bob or 2
) would also come in handy and jobs such as plumbing, electrician etc also pay pretty well in the mean time so you can save. Airlines also like people to have some other life experience aside from just school/uni/flight school.
I just don't understand why for some people there is such a rush to get into huge debt to make it into the RHS. Unless you are the wrong side of 30, there is plenty of time ahead of you - and even then it still isn't too late.
And whilst that is all well and good to make it to the LHS and work your way up the seniority list, once the novelty has worn off, it will just be another job and you could well become very bored of it by the time your in your 30's.
I'd suggest to anyone at age 16-20 to go out and either get more qualifications or get a job, and work and save as much as possible and look to begin the training around age 25 when you won't have to worry about taking out a huge loan. Having a skill that you can also use around your flying to earn extra money on the side (there are always people looking to save a bob or 2
) would also come in handy and jobs such as plumbing, electrician etc also pay pretty well in the mean time so you can save. Airlines also like people to have some other life experience aside from just school/uni/flight school.I just don't understand why for some people there is such a rush to get into huge debt to make it into the RHS. Unless you are the wrong side of 30, there is plenty of time ahead of you - and even then it still isn't too late.
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From reading this thread, the general consensus seems to be that the modular training route is just as good, if not better, than the integrated route.
Dont make life choices based on the popular vote from these kind of threads.
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From reading this thread, the general consensus seems to be that the modular training route is just as good, if not better, than the integrated route.
I won't even attempt to answer the "which is better" question, save that to say IMHO, it's very dependant on the person.
What I did want to say however, is it's like having a need to get from London to Edinburgh. Both a second hand and a new car will get you there, but which is better? The answer is dependant on SO many factors that you couldn't ever get a single answer. What's your budget? How second hand IS second hand (£50 banger, or £200000 used supercar) how quickly do you need to get there, how important is comfort to you? Do you see what I mean? both get you there eventually....but person A might choose to spend £50 on a banger, break down about 100 times, but get there eventually having spent a lot less than person B who bought a brand new BMW and got there quickly and in comfort. Of course, someone who bought a second hand rolls royce, will probably have still paid less than someone who bought a new M5 AND got there quickly and comfortably...
I'm NOT comparing int and modular to bangers and beemers by the way, just it's a handy metaphore. Suffice to say, I don't think ANYONE in this thread has been saying one route or other is better, just that when you've unfrozen your ATPL, there ceases to be much - if any - difference.
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Fact of the matter is, if you have just spunked all your money on the bells and whistles course instead of the cheaper option. The brand new beamer could be yours! There are no jobs out there for any newbie, why waste your money.
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Dan you are 16..... 16!!
I am absolutely gobsmacked.... I would be shocked if a bank would lend you £100 let alone £50k!!! Have you ever had a job.... do you have an income? If not why on earth should someone give you the money to train??
I would be tempted to say have a look at the military but to be honest to succeed there you would need a passion for it and given you are 16 and seem to have not expressed an interest in that direction you would be unlikely to get in as a pilot.
You should worry about getting good exam results... that should be your top priority at the moment... forget flying and get on with studying that is your best bet at the moment. If you really really have to fly whilst at school get a job at weekends and start paying for flying lessons. You could then be well on you way to getting a PPL before you leave school.
Robstob: "Let's not forget that all the problems encountered at the moment are pretty unique to the economy right now and are far worse than they have been previously, therefore the current situation cannot really be used to predict the job situation 2/3 years down the line. Now is, after all, the best time to start training"
Thanks you for sharing those words of economic wisdom gathered from all those economic downturns you have been through in your 18 years.... CTC have done a real job on you. If you can't see the long-term issues with these 6 month contracts then you have a lot to learn.... and the first lesson will probably be when you are dumped on your arse after just 6 months of line flying with a whooping big loan still to repay.... I just despair at how naive some people are.... that said when I was 18 I am sure I would have been the same
I am absolutely gobsmacked.... I would be shocked if a bank would lend you £100 let alone £50k!!! Have you ever had a job.... do you have an income? If not why on earth should someone give you the money to train??
I would be tempted to say have a look at the military but to be honest to succeed there you would need a passion for it and given you are 16 and seem to have not expressed an interest in that direction you would be unlikely to get in as a pilot.
You should worry about getting good exam results... that should be your top priority at the moment... forget flying and get on with studying that is your best bet at the moment. If you really really have to fly whilst at school get a job at weekends and start paying for flying lessons. You could then be well on you way to getting a PPL before you leave school.
Robstob: "Let's not forget that all the problems encountered at the moment are pretty unique to the economy right now and are far worse than they have been previously, therefore the current situation cannot really be used to predict the job situation 2/3 years down the line. Now is, after all, the best time to start training"
Thanks you for sharing those words of economic wisdom gathered from all those economic downturns you have been through in your 18 years.... CTC have done a real job on you. If you can't see the long-term issues with these 6 month contracts then you have a lot to learn.... and the first lesson will probably be when you are dumped on your arse after just 6 months of line flying with a whooping big loan still to repay.... I just despair at how naive some people are.... that said when I was 18 I am sure I would have been the same
Last edited by Grass strip basher; 15th Mar 2009 at 05:21.
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pilot dan,
read wilkys post here, look how much he has worked to get to a position so he can pay for his training, read and learn!
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ml#post4790460
Debt is not good!!
read wilkys post here, look how much he has worked to get to a position so he can pay for his training, read and learn!
http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...ml#post4790460
Debt is not good!!
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Yeah! Let's all jump on the newbee with some more sarcastic, bitter comments to impress the oldies! Nice one! Haven't seen that before on here, very refreshing commment That kind of comment just epitomises the kind of resposes I expect to see on here. And yeah, my comment epitomises the kind of comments from a 'naive 18 year old', blah, blah.
Yeah, I'm naive etc because you know me and everything, fair comment there, matey. If people say something that you don't really agree with, why don't you, like everyone else, bite their
tongue for once, because we don't want to hear it? I've heard it all before, so has everyone else, and big deal. It's so typical that you latched onto my comment and produced that orginal response, slating me. I bet you were waiting in the shadows for another chance to attack someone like me? Congratulations, enjoy your moment of smugness. Well deserved.
This is my decision and nobody elses, and I'll be damned if I listen to some comments on here instead of the actual words of wisdom I've heard over the years (NOT from CTC, clever dicks). If you think I've suddenly jumped into CTC straight after leaving school without consulting the other options available for YEARS, then you don't know me one little bit.
If I'm on my arse after the 6 months then that will be the worst case scenario and my error in singing up to this. Heck, shun the thought that I might actually have a job after it, though... Oh no, what about that? Of course, everybody knows, categorically, that it won't happen. That goes without saying, doesn't it?
That kind of comment just epitomises the kind of resposes I expect to see on here. And yeah, my comment epitomises the kind of comments from a 'naive 18 year old', blah, blah. Yeah, I'm naive etc because you know me and everything, fair comment there, matey. If people say something that you don't really agree with, why don't you, like everyone else, bite their
tongue for once, because we don't want to hear it? I've heard it all before, so has everyone else, and big deal. It's so typical that you latched onto my comment and produced that orginal response, slating me. I bet you were waiting in the shadows for another chance to attack someone like me? Congratulations, enjoy your moment of smugness. Well deserved. This is my decision and nobody elses, and I'll be damned if I listen to some comments on here instead of the actual words of wisdom I've heard over the years (NOT from CTC, clever dicks). If you think I've suddenly jumped into CTC straight after leaving school without consulting the other options available for YEARS, then you don't know me one little bit.
If I'm on my arse after the 6 months then that will be the worst case scenario and my error in singing up to this. Heck, shun the thought that I might actually have a job after it, though... Oh no, what about that? Of course, everybody knows, categorically, that it won't happen. That goes without saying, doesn't it?
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Wow lot of pent up aggression released there RobStob!... feeling a little nervous about something!? 
I don't care if you end up on your arse.... you have made your bed and will have to lie in it..... tempting other young naieve wanabees to run head first into training in potentially the worst recruitment market for decades and I will give you a "verbal slap" and make no apologies.
I am sure you spent many of your teenage hours thinking about how to get into aviaton and CTC is one of the best ways although even they are "going a bit Ryanair" with this new "flexi scheme". (Personally I spent most of my teenage years getting pissed and trying to get laid... but I digress that is another story).
Bottom line paying c60k plus 1-2 years of lost earnings in the current economic environment with limited to zero chance of a "permanent" job many would view as strange.... where as you think now is the "best time to train"..... I bet there ain't gonna be much of a pilot recruitment market next winter but hey hoo we will just have to wait and see.... things ain't shaping up too good so far.
Also sorry but I must ask.... it must be interesting when you meet the CTC course 6-9 months behind you knowing that in all probablility they will be taking your job when they graduate on the CTC "flexi-crew" scheme leaving you in the sh*t..... how does that discussion point go down over a beer with them??...... or when you discuss it with the CTC grads you will replace who are currently doing their 6 month stint on the line.... they will be left with a big debt and no job so you can do your 6 month stint?? See the problem.... how do you think experienced crew would feel about that? All genuine questions I am sure you considered in the yeeears you spent planning this....
I don't care if you end up on your arse.... you have made your bed and will have to lie in it..... tempting other young naieve wanabees to run head first into training in potentially the worst recruitment market for decades and I will give you a "verbal slap" and make no apologies.I am sure you spent many of your teenage hours thinking about how to get into aviaton and CTC is one of the best ways although even they are "going a bit Ryanair" with this new "flexi scheme". (Personally I spent most of my teenage years getting pissed and trying to get laid... but I digress that is another story).
Bottom line paying c60k plus 1-2 years of lost earnings in the current economic environment with limited to zero chance of a "permanent" job many would view as strange.... where as you think now is the "best time to train"..... I bet there ain't gonna be much of a pilot recruitment market next winter but hey hoo we will just have to wait and see.... things ain't shaping up too good so far.
Also sorry but I must ask.... it must be interesting when you meet the CTC course 6-9 months behind you knowing that in all probablility they will be taking your job when they graduate on the CTC "flexi-crew" scheme leaving you in the sh*t..... how does that discussion point go down over a beer with them??...... or when you discuss it with the CTC grads you will replace who are currently doing their 6 month stint on the line.... they will be left with a big debt and no job so you can do your 6 month stint?? See the problem.... how do you think experienced crew would feel about that? All genuine questions I am sure you considered in the yeeears you spent planning this....
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Yeah! Let's all jump on the newbee with some more sarcastic, bitter comments to impress the oldies!
There are a few like this on my CP intake, seem to think they know it all. Its amazing there is a guy on my course who is barely shaving yet he regularly gives us advice on property, the stock market, pilot recruitment, pensions, marriage?! etc. He means well but does make me chuckle.
Last edited by Ollie23; 15th Mar 2009 at 17:06.
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A Livery Company of the City of London
Try this link Dan. There is some useful stuff about becoming an airline pilot. Look for the page "careers and sponsorship": you might even like to apply for a PPL sponsorship. The Guild used to have a full ATPL scholarship too, but that has been withdrawn for the time being because of the financial climate. By the time you are interested in doing the ATPL course (and old enough to hold the licence of course) it may have been reinstated.
As some others have said already, but it is advice worth repeating, get yourself a good education first, at least to A-level, and get yourself some sort of practical trade to fall back on, or to help ease the way through training costs. Go to every length that you can to avoid starting your working life with the debt the size of a small house: there will be plenty of other opportunities in your life to get a debt round your neck! I was in my mid 20s when I started flying training, and early 30s when I got my first flying job: you have plenty of time, so don't feel you have to make airline pilot your first, and only job.
Good luck, and enjoy your self!
Try this link Dan. There is some useful stuff about becoming an airline pilot. Look for the page "careers and sponsorship": you might even like to apply for a PPL sponsorship. The Guild used to have a full ATPL scholarship too, but that has been withdrawn for the time being because of the financial climate. By the time you are interested in doing the ATPL course (and old enough to hold the licence of course) it may have been reinstated.
As some others have said already, but it is advice worth repeating, get yourself a good education first, at least to A-level, and get yourself some sort of practical trade to fall back on, or to help ease the way through training costs. Go to every length that you can to avoid starting your working life with the debt the size of a small house: there will be plenty of other opportunities in your life to get a debt round your neck! I was in my mid 20s when I started flying training, and early 30s when I got my first flying job: you have plenty of time, so don't feel you have to make airline pilot your first, and only job.
Good luck, and enjoy your self!
